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Post by liminal on Aug 8, 2022 20:26:39 GMT
In the first panel, are Annie and Kat still at the ocean? Because it looks like a featureless beige wall behind them. At the very least, if it's still night the wall shouldn't be beige. It looks like they're back at Annie's house. |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 8, 2022 21:17:12 GMT
The narrative pulls back for a moment to reveal that Kat is telling Annie what happened – or what she remembers of what happened, at least. It seems that she remembers only what the speaker said, not what they looked or even sounded like. This sounds like some kind of hypnosis or direct-to-mind communication.
And we see a strange, indistinct image of a transparent ... person? We see the ocean and the sky through them, but this impression of them has many arms and an obscured face. It's possible that they're some kind of combination of multiple people. They're saying that everything the Court has been doing, all its resources, have been put into this project, the ability to transport the Court to another planet, where presumably the Ether can't affect the Omega Device's predictions.
Are they right? I mean, the Ether is involved in even the most basic transactions of to whom an object belongs. What makes them think they can get away with it by just moving to another location in this universe?
Or are they lying? Perhaps it's not another planet they're talking about at all. Maybe it's another plane or dimension.
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Post by rafk on Aug 8, 2022 23:22:26 GMT
Pro "this is a version of/connected to Kat" - the Catalysis cover, the "She gave us an ocean" thing, the technogod time traveller stuff.
Anti "this is a version of Kat" - working through the Court and keeping all the good guys in the dark would at best be EvilKat. The whole thing has either Coyote vibes or "DEMANDRED. HOW FARES THIS WORLD?" vibes for Wheel of Time readers. Serious bad news I'm saying.
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Post by todd on Aug 8, 2022 23:44:52 GMT
Are they right? I mean, the Ether is involved in even the most basic transactions of to whom an object belongs. What makes them think they can get away with it by just moving to another location in this universe? I still think it's a case of the Court being ignorant of how the ether actually works - maybe even willfully ignorant - seeing it as just a frustrating thing they can't explain, and so they're going to give up trying to explain it, get as far away from it as they can, and pretend that it doesn't exist. (Which, if so, means that they're not as scientific as they think they are.) |
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 9, 2022 0:31:48 GMT
The part of the figure that overlaps the moon--is that another arm/hand, or is it long hair? If the latter, the odds of this being Kat go down (and the odds of it being Tony go way down). Assuming we're meant to read anything at all into this depiction... Kat says she doesn't know what the person looked like, but then Tom is showing us something... hmm.
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Post by mturtle7 on Aug 9, 2022 3:43:40 GMT
Or maybe... only Kat can't see them? If this is some kind of being made entirely of ether, it would make sense for Kat to be unable to perceive them. A thought: one very natural, very common phenomenon I have observed in GC fandom is that for every Mysterious Thing that's left waiting in the wings, a bunch of readers will assume every single new development is actually connected to that Thing. This is fine, I accept it as an important component of the great Wild Speculation engine that I love. However...
What I hate is that there are two particular Mysterious Things that just keep getting brought up over and over again, and it's always because people are misunderstanding what they mean in the exact same way, and I always feel the inexplicable need to correct them in the exact same way. I am seriously determined now to create two "stock corrections" that I will just copy-paste into a post whenever I feel the need to argue with someone about one of these two things, and be done with it. Here goes:
a) Kat's "logic vision", which we first encountered in "Chapter 46: The Realm of the Dead" and later encountered in "Chapter 60: The Other Shore", does not actually apply to everything magic. I know that when we see this ability in play, it really feels like she's just seeing through all the magic, so this is still a perfectly reasonable mistake to make, but I still think it is a mistake. I say this because Kat can still see, for example, Ankou the Psychopomp as exactly the unnatural etheric creature he is. The same holds true for a variety of other magical beings & effects in the comic. I won't try to name every single one of those, the Ankou thing just makes a good example because he's a spooky guy kind of like the ROTD Recordkeeper guy, but Kat was unafraid of that guy while she was afraid of Ankou. The exact nature of Kat's ability is not exactly clear, but the common element between both times we see it in play is that it takes effects that are meant to etherically obfuscate the truth of something by making them look big, complex, and dramatic, and instead it makes Kat see them as simple and mundane things which she can (and does) easily handle with mundane skills. b) Coyote's Great Secret, which was first revealed by Coyote in "Chapter 39: The Great Secret" and is later expounded upon by Jones in "Chapter 40: The Stone", does not actually mean that you can make anything be real just by getting a large group of people to believe in it, nor does it mean everything etheric in the world of Gunnerkrigg comes precisely from a popular myth or legend. I honestly get why one might think this, since "belief magic" is a pretty popular concept in modern media, and both Coyote and Jones' explanation of it really emphasize how much power humans are supposed to have under this theory (and in particular, how scary that power is). However, there are a lot of problems with taking this at face value, not least of which is the fact that the "Great Secret" is nothing more than wild, evidence-free, speculation by Coyote, who is not the most unbiased or trustworthy source of info. But also, Coyote himself mentioned in his arguement that the Ether always exists unto itself, and the only reason etheric stuff resembles human myths is because human souls are absorbed into the ether only when they die. And furthermore, lots of etheric stuff that goes on in the world of Gunnerkrigg is either wholly an original creation of Tom Siddell's, or an old myth with a very original twist on it. For instance, City Fairies have plenty of qualities that aren't normally attributed to fairies by humans, and Coyote does lots of things in the story that are not featured in classical Native American mythology (e.g. committing suicide by wolf). So it stands to reason that even if one was to deliberately convince a very large group of humans of a specific piece of folklore, and then kill those humans so they're absorbed into the Ether, any etheric creatures that may result will probably not exist or act in precisely the way you intended.
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Post by jda on Aug 9, 2022 5:58:19 GMT
I was trying to remember, in some fantasy book I read the description of a monster, that was described as "impossible to remember, even while he is eating your face"
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Post by blahzor on Aug 9, 2022 6:10:37 GMT
There are simpler ways to tell Kat doesn't see through all magic at her current state because one she still see's Annie's fire for what it is, the wisp chapter, Rey changing forms etc etc. It's more like she is seeing through global enchantments. And not even high levels of them because the Norns part of existence didn't look like a empty room and someone with 2 mirrors on the side of their face
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 9, 2022 12:52:23 GMT
So... the similarity to the Nobodies is interesting. Is the Court going to go to what eventually has becoming Planet Zimmingham?
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 9, 2022 12:54:45 GMT
Or maybe... only Kat can't see them? If this is some kind of being made entirely of ether, it would make sense for Kat to be unable to perceive them. A thought: one very natural, very common phenomenon I have observed in GC fandom is that for every Mysterious Thing that's left waiting in the wings, a bunch of readers will assume every single new development is actually connected to that Thing. This is fine, I accept it as an important component of the great Wild Speculation engine that I love. However...
What I hate is that there are two particular Mysterious Things that just keep getting brought up over and over again, and it's always because people are misunderstanding what they mean in the exact same way, and I always feel the inexplicable need to correct them in the exact same way. I am seriously determined now to create two "stock corrections" that I will just copy-paste into a post whenever I feel the need to argue with someone about one of these two things, and be done with it. Here goes:
a) Kat's "logic vision", which we first encountered in "Chapter 46: The Realm of the Dead" and later encountered in "Chapter 60: The Other Shore", does not actually apply to everything magic. I know that when we see this ability in play, it really feels like she's just seeing through all the magic, so this is still a perfectly reasonable mistake to make, but I still think it is a mistake. I say this because Kat can still see, for example, Ankou the Psychopomp as exactly the unnatural etheric creature he is. The same holds true for a variety of other magical beings & effects in the comic. I won't try to name every single one of those, the Ankou thing just makes a good example because he's a spooky guy kind of like the ROTD Recordkeeper guy, but Kat was unafraid of that guy while she was afraid of Ankou. The exact nature of Kat's ability is not exactly clear, but the common element between both times we see it in play is that it takes effects that are meant to etherically obfuscate the truth of something by making them look big, complex, and dramatic, and instead it makes Kat see them as simple and mundane things which she can (and does) easily handle with mundane skills. b) Coyote's Great Secret, which was first revealed by Coyote in "Chapter 39: The Great Secret" and is later expounded upon by Jones in "Chapter 40: The Stone", does not actually mean that you can make anything be real just by getting a large group of people to believe in it, nor does it mean everything etheric in the world of Gunnerkrigg comes precisely from a popular myth or legend. I honestly get why one might think this, since "belief magic" is a pretty popular concept in modern media, and both Coyote and Jones' explanation of it really emphasize how much power humans are supposed to have under this theory (and in particular, how scary that power is). However, there are a lot of problems with taking this at face value, not least of which is the fact that the "Great Secret" is nothing more than wild, evidence-free, speculation by Coyote, who is not the most unbiased or trustworthy source of info. But also, Coyote himself in his point that the Ether always exists unto itself, and the only reason etheric stuff resembles human myths is because human souls are absorbed into the ether only when they die. And furthermore, lots of etheric stuff that goes on in the world of Gunnerkrigg is either wholly an original creation of Tom Siddell's, or an old myth with a very original twist on it. For instance, City Fairies have plenty of qualities that aren't normally attributed to fairies by humans, and Coyote does lots of things in the story that are not featured in classical Native American mythology (e.g. committing suicide by wolf). So it stands to reason that even if one was to deliberately convince a very large group of humans of a specific piece of folklore, and then kill those humans so they're absorbed into the Ether, any etheric creatures that may result will probably not exist or act in precisely the way you intended.
Finally, some delicious, oven cooked goddamn sense. |
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Post by silicondream on Aug 9, 2022 20:20:57 GMT
Loony theories thread: please start your engines. 1. Blurry people invoking the Seed Bismuth and luring baseline humans with implausible promises of utopia? It's wisps. Sea wisps. 2. Annie is returning to the scene of the crime after she panicked over Kat leaving and the prospect of needing a real job and decided to guide the entire Court into the Ether. The confused amnesiacs standing around are the people for whom it was only a near-death experience. 3. It's a legitimate Court spokesperson telling the complete and unvarnished truth. All modern Court officials above a certain level serve anonymously and have their memories wiped after their term ends, so that their government will be as impersonal and impartial as possible. (No one wants a repeat of Sir Young's near-monarchy.). The officials who retrieved Tony from the wilderness were wearing blursuits too, that's why he only remembers "a crowd of serious-looking people." |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Aug 10, 2022 5:34:14 GMT
I just remembered that pen-like memory wiper thing from MiB,
and I now have a picture in my mind of Kat and Annie wearing the MiB suits and glasses XD
* Or better yet, Jones
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Post by speedwell on Aug 10, 2022 9:33:34 GMT
I was trying to remember, in some fantasy book I read the description of a monster, that was described as "impossible to remember, even while he is eating your face" There's always the character Imp from Worm, of course, whose superpower was "don't notice or remember me". |
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Post by Nnelg on Aug 10, 2022 14:42:46 GMT
Is this the legendary "That Guy"?
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 10, 2022 15:20:06 GMT
Or maybe... only Kat can't see them? If this is some kind of being made entirely of ether, it would make sense for Kat to be unable to perceive them. A thought: one very natural, very common phenomenon I have observed in GC fandom is that for every Mysterious Thing that's left waiting in the wings, a bunch of readers will assume every single new development is actually connected to that Thing. This is fine, I accept it as an important component of the great Wild Speculation engine that I love. However...
What I hate is that there are two particular Mysterious Things that just keep getting brought up over and over again, and it's always because people are misunderstanding what they mean in the exact same way, and I always feel the inexplicable need to correct them in the exact same way. I am seriously determined now to create two "stock corrections" that I will just copy-paste into a post whenever I feel the need to argue with someone about one of these two things, and be done with it. Here goes:
a) Kat's "logic vision", which we first encountered in "Chapter 46: The Realm of the Dead" and later encountered in "Chapter 60: The Other Shore", does not actually apply to everything magic. I know that when we see this ability in play, it really feels like she's just seeing through all the magic, so this is still a perfectly reasonable mistake to make, but I still think it is a mistake. I say this because Kat can still see, for example, Ankou the Psychopomp as exactly the unnatural etheric creature he is. The same holds true for a variety of other magical beings & effects in the comic. I won't try to name every single one of those, the Ankou thing just makes a good example because he's a spooky guy kind of like the ROTD Recordkeeper guy, but Kat was unafraid of that guy while she was afraid of Ankou. The exact nature of Kat's ability is not exactly clear, but the common element between both times we see it in play is that it takes effects that are meant to etherically obfuscate the truth of something by making them look big, complex, and dramatic, and instead it makes Kat see them as simple and mundane things which she can (and does) easily handle with mundane skills. b) Coyote's Great Secret, which was first revealed by Coyote in "Chapter 39: The Great Secret" and is later expounded upon by Jones in "Chapter 40: The Stone", does not actually mean that you can make anything be real just by getting a large group of people to believe in it, nor does it mean everything etheric in the world of Gunnerkrigg comes precisely from a popular myth or legend. I honestly get why one might think this, since "belief magic" is a pretty popular concept in modern media, and both Coyote and Jones' explanation of it really emphasize how much power humans are supposed to have under this theory (and in particular, how scary that power is). However, there are a lot of problems with taking this at face value, not least of which is the fact that the "Great Secret" is nothing more than wild, evidence-free, speculation by Coyote, who is not the most unbiased or trustworthy source of info. But also, Coyote himself in his point that the Ether always exists unto itself, and the only reason etheric stuff resembles human myths is because human souls are absorbed into the ether only when they die. And furthermore, lots of etheric stuff that goes on in the world of Gunnerkrigg is either wholly an original creation of Tom Siddell's, or an old myth with a very original twist on it. For instance, City Fairies have plenty of qualities that aren't normally attributed to fairies by humans, and Coyote does lots of things in the story that are not featured in classical Native American mythology (e.g. committing suicide by wolf). So it stands to reason that even if one was to deliberately convince a very large group of humans of a specific piece of folklore, and then kill those humans so they're absorbed into the Ether, any etheric creatures that may result will probably not exist or act in precisely the way you intended.
May I link to this post in my signature? These two misconceptions irk me to no end as well. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 10, 2022 17:35:49 GMT
Loony theories thread: please start your engines. 1. Blurry people invoking the Seed Bismuth and luring baseline humans with implausible promises of utopia? It's wisps. Sea wisps. Swisp gang rise up. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Aug 10, 2022 18:03:14 GMT
A thought: one very natural, very common phenomenon I have observed in GC fandom is that for every Mysterious Thing that's left waiting in the wings, a bunch of readers will assume every single new development is actually connected to that Thing. This is fine, I accept it as an important component of the great Wild Speculation engine that I love. However...
What I hate is that there are two particular Mysterious Things that just keep getting brought up over and over again, and it's always because people are misunderstanding what they mean in the exact same way, and I always feel the inexplicable need to correct them in the exact same way. I am seriously determined now to create two "stock corrections" that I will just copy-paste into a post whenever I feel the need to argue with someone about one of these two things, and be done with it. Here goes:
a) Kat's "logic vision", which we first encountered in "Chapter 46: The Realm of the Dead" and later encountered in "Chapter 60: The Other Shore", does not actually apply to everything magic. I know that when we see this ability in play, it really feels like she's just seeing through all the magic, so this is still a perfectly reasonable mistake to make, but I still think it is a mistake. I say this because Kat can still see, for example, Ankou the Psychopomp as exactly the unnatural etheric creature he is. The same holds true for a variety of other magical beings & effects in the comic. I won't try to name every single one of those, the Ankou thing just makes a good example because he's a spooky guy kind of like the ROTD Recordkeeper guy, but Kat was unafraid of that guy while she was afraid of Ankou. The exact nature of Kat's ability is not exactly clear, but the common element between both times we see it in play is that it takes effects that are meant to etherically obfuscate the truth of something by making them look big, complex, and dramatic, and instead it makes Kat see them as simple and mundane things which she can (and does) easily handle with mundane skills. b) Coyote's Great Secret, which was first revealed by Coyote in "Chapter 39: The Great Secret" and is later expounded upon by Jones in "Chapter 40: The Stone", does not actually mean that you can make anything be real just by getting a large group of people to believe in it, nor does it mean everything etheric in the world of Gunnerkrigg comes precisely from a popular myth or legend. I honestly get why one might think this, since "belief magic" is a pretty popular concept in modern media, and both Coyote and Jones' explanation of it really emphasize how much power humans are supposed to have under this theory (and in particular, how scary that power is). However, there are a lot of problems with taking this at face value, not least of which is the fact that the "Great Secret" is nothing more than wild, evidence-free, speculation by Coyote, who is not the most unbiased or trustworthy source of info. But also, Coyote himself in his point that the Ether always exists unto itself, and the only reason etheric stuff resembles human myths is because human souls are absorbed into the ether only when they die. And furthermore, lots of etheric stuff that goes on in the world of Gunnerkrigg is either wholly an original creation of Tom Siddell's, or an old myth with a very original twist on it. For instance, City Fairies have plenty of qualities that aren't normally attributed to fairies by humans, and Coyote does lots of things in the story that are not featured in classical Native American mythology (e.g. committing suicide by wolf). So it stands to reason that even if one was to deliberately convince a very large group of humans of a specific piece of folklore, and then kill those humans so they're absorbed into the Ether, any etheric creatures that may result will probably not exist or act in precisely the way you intended.
May I link to this post in my signature? These two misconceptions irk me to no end as well. Ha! I thought other people might feel the same way I did, but it didn't occur to me they could just link directly to that post. I'm glad my little frustration outlet could help! |
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Post by mturtle7 on Aug 10, 2022 18:16:18 GMT
There are simpler ways to tell Kat doesn't see through all magic at her current state because one she still see's Annie's fire for what it is, the wisp chapter, Rey changing forms etc etc. It's more like she is seeing through global enchantments. And not even high levels of them because the Norns part of existence didn't look like a empty room and someone with 2 mirrors on the side of their face Yeah - like I said, there are many other possible examples. I chose Ankou because that was so close in theme, circumstance, and proximity to an actual instance of Kat's ability. Also:
The exact nature of Kat's ability is not exactly clear, but the common element between both times we see it in play is that it takes effects that are meant to etherically obfuscate the truth of something by making them look big, complex, and dramatic, and instead it makes Kat see them as simple and mundane things which she can (and does) easily handle with mundane skills.
The Norns ain't lying, so Kat can see them just fine.
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