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Post by alevice on Jul 25, 2022 16:14:57 GMT
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Post by Corvo on Jul 25, 2022 16:28:53 GMT
Kat: "It's actually a sea! Completely different things, did you know that? Either way, you guys up for a game of 20 questions very far away from here? No relation to fish-people possessing bodies to infiltrate the Court, HAHAHAha."
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jul 25, 2022 16:38:09 GMT
Maybe both the Court and the Forest are in a bubble inside the Ether? A false space, similar to The Realm Of The Dead's headquarters... and the ocean is the Ether itself, disguised by an illusion... That would explain why Coyote and the other magical beings aren't wreacking havoc in say the middle of London... their power is limited outside the Ether... except that Coyote seems to be immune to all systems and logic of the ether so he probably has powers outside of it. Coyote has Admin prilevages If they're trapped in a bubble of ether or whatever, there's no guarantee that "London" isn't just Etheric London or the holodeck version of London. You board a simulated train to simulated London, and arrive at simulated Paddington. "The Developers Think Of Everything." = I'll admit part of me thought of the pragmatic answer: if you walk due west from Blackpool, you don't end up in the Atlantic OCEAN, because there's this emerald landmass full of Guinness and leprechauns in the way. You end up in the Irish SEA. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 25, 2022 17:17:07 GMT
The purple goo is kind of a giveaway my guess is that that huge ocean there is really made of Bismuth Goo. I think people are reading too much into the artwork. Tom is just showing you that it's night (hence the color of the water), and that it's lapping at her ankles. Like large bodies of water do when you stand on their shores. The folks from the Court have been living next to this for months. Even before the attack, they were on a cruise ship on it. Paz dove into it. Lindsey lives there. If this wasn't water, people would have figured that out long ago. I don't believe this is about the water. It's about where the water is, or is coming from. [Edited to add:] Or what it's for. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 25, 2022 18:02:31 GMT
"It's made from people!"
Jokes aside, I am going with silicondream's theory, that it is, pure and simple, a large body of water used as a gigantic Ether battery. Which would ironically mean that, in a way, it is made from people. Their beliefs, stories and myths at least.
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Post by shadow3 on Jul 25, 2022 18:09:05 GMT
The Cthulhu Outer Gods cometh and call for munchies.
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Post by drmemory on Jul 25, 2022 21:36:30 GMT
The purple goo is kind of a giveaway my guess is that that huge ocean there is really made of Bismuth Goo. I think people are reading too much into the artwork. Tom is just showing you that it's night (hence the color of the water), and that it's lapping at her ankles. Like large bodies of water do when you stand on their shores. The folks from the Court have been living next to this for months. Even before the attack, they were on a cruise ship on it. Paz dove into it. Lindsey lives there. If this wasn't water, people would have figured that out long ago. I don't believe this is about the water. It's about where the water is, or is coming from. I'm not suggesting the appearance of the artwork is a giveaway, just theorizing what it could be if it isn't an ocean. Honestly, I'm not fond of my own "Bismuth goo" theory simply because that would only shock Kat, not the others standing there. I mean who else would have the background to understand what that means and the implications? Probably not teachers and administrators! If it's truly shocking enough to make normal people stand there stunned, it has to be something they could understand.
Also agree that this seems inconsistent with the ocean life we've seen previously. I really think it's more likely we're seeing a cult or brainwashing thing going on here.
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Post by drmemory on Jul 25, 2022 21:44:44 GMT
"It's made from people!"
Jokes aside, I am going with silicondream's theory, that it is, pure and simple, a large body of water used as a gigantic Ether battery. Which would ironically mean that, in a way, it is made from people. Their beliefs, stories and myths at least.
I still think it's most likely that we're seeing a cult thing here, but if not, I think it's more likely that the ocean is made of goo than that it is an ether storage battery, simply because we've seen a number of etheric entities doing ether things while in a boat on the ocean, or in a speedboat, or floating above it waiting to destroy bad robot antenna things, or whatever. If it were a big ether battery you'd think Annie or Renard or one of the others would have noticed?
Also, that would mean they (the Court) already has a big store of ether energy, which isn't consistent with what Shell said in the "spilling tea" episode.
Now if it isn't just a brainwashing thing, then it could be made of Bismuth Goo like most of the solid objects around, in which case it might make sense for her to say it isn't an ocean, as that would make it more of a store of Goo, and would allow space for the Court really needing a buncha energy (to shape it).
I'm not arguing for this point of view, just trying to figure it out. Maybe Shell is a liar, maybe etheric beings don't notice etheric energy if it's stored in water, and maybe Kat's wide-eyed look and the stunned Court drones standing around have just been gifted with a major attempt at brainwashing. Who can say?  I think it's too early to rule out anything here. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 25, 2022 22:20:50 GMT
"It's made from people!"
Jokes aside, I am going with silicondream's theory, that it is, pure and simple, a large body of water used as a gigantic Ether battery. Which would ironically mean that, in a way, it is made from people. Their beliefs, stories and myths at least.
I still think it's most likely that we're seeing a cult thing here, but if not, I think it's more likely that the ocean is made of goo than that it is an ether storage battery, simply because we've seen a number of etheric entities doing ether things while in a boat on the ocean, or in a speedboat, or floating above it waiting to destroy bad robot antenna things, or whatever. If it were a big ether battery you'd think Annie or Renard or one of the others would have noticed?
Also, that would mean they (the Court) already has a big store of ether energy, which isn't consistent with what Shell said in the "spilling tea" episode.
Now if it isn't just a brainwashing thing, then it could be made of Bismuth Goo like most of the solid objects around, in which case it might make sense for her to say it isn't an ocean, as that would make it more of a store of Goo, and would allow space for the Court really needing a buncha energy (to shape it).
I'm not arguing for this point of view, just trying to figure it out. Maybe Shell is a liar, maybe etheric beings don't notice etheric energy if it's stored in water, and maybe Kat's wide-eyed look and the stunned Court drones standing around have just been gifted with a major attempt at brainwashing. Who can say? I think it's too early to rule out anything here. I don't remember the exact page, but I'm fairly certain it was said that Ether is naturally present in (unprocessed) water. Which is why Zimmy gets calmed down by natural rain, but not by the rain that occurs after the Power Station has collected the Ether from the water.
My theory is that right now this water does not hold much Ether - a discharged battery, so to say - and is yet to be charged with wherever the court intends to find its new source for Etheric energy.
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Post by Runningflame on Jul 26, 2022 1:49:45 GMT
"... It's a gigantic ashray!" dun dun dun
(Okay, probably not.)
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manabi
Junior Member
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Post by manabi on Jul 26, 2022 2:12:43 GMT
P.S. Apparently I've come up with the most boring interpretation of this page in the entire thread. All y'all talking about seas of computronium and metaphysical idealizations of oceanhood and elemental planes of water and whatnot. If I'm right I want a particularly prosaic cookie--one of those graham crackers they give to kindergarteners, let's say. My theory's more boring than yours: It is an ocean, but something happened at the meeting that caused everyone to stop recognizing it as such. Perhaps Loup did something to them, so they'd all drown themselves by walking into the ocean unaware. If so, perhaps Annie's about to save everyone. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 26, 2022 5:34:21 GMT
Not sure if the way the water's drawn is just artistic license or if it is indeed goop, but if it is now goop it isn't always goop. It's been normal enough in appearance (and smell) that no character has remarked about it being odd. Paz has been swimming in it. If it isn't always goop, then something's happening to make it goopy. It's still speculation but I'm thinking that boat is some Court personnel sailing off for more favorable climes; assuming that's the case the simplest answer is that the goopy effect, real or not, is related to this event. Maybe the Court is doing something unrelated, maybe "Loup" is either doing something or his lack of control is peeking out, or maybe something else entirely. Yeah I know, coincidence is not proof of causation but gotta wildly speculate something. Okay now I'm thinking that it actually is a sea that may or may not be landlocked, but is not any of the oceans that Kat learned in normal Earth geography class; it's a sea exclusive to the Court/Gillite that exits other places, probably including at least one ocean. I don't think we're being treated to a hydrography lesson here. Maybe not. ...but if any webcomic I read would treat its readers to a hydrography lesson (and possibly split hairs on definitions) it is Gunnerkrigg Court. Also maybe it is an ocean in the literal sense and Kat is going to spout some figurative language where it's symbolically something else. Possibilities include: "That's not an ocean... That's a wall between us and half our friends... probably forever." "That's not an ocean... That's a gateway to a whole new Court... a whole new life." "That's not an ocean... It's ten million waves goodbye." "That's not an ocean... It's a road to a new beginning, but I couldn't leave you without saying even a word." "That's not an ocean... It's a huge salty kiss goodbye from the Court." "That's not an ocean... It's a space station!" "That's not an ocean... It apiers to be a shore path to untide science and a new porpoise for all humanatee." |
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Post by kayback on Jul 26, 2022 8:04:58 GMT
The purple goo is kind of a giveaway my guess is that that huge ocean there is really made of Bismuth Goo. I think people are reading too much into the artwork. Tom is just showing you that it's night (hence the color of the water), and that it's lapping at her ankles. Like large bodies of water do when you stand on their shores. The folks from the Court have been living next to this for months. Even before the attack, they were on a cruise ship on it. Paz dove into it. Lindsey lives there. If this wasn't water, people would have figured that out long ago. I don't believe this is about the water. It's about where the water is, or is coming from. [Edited to add:]Â Or what it's for. Eh, Tom's made too much of a big deal for slightly longer hair or a missing hair clip in the past for something as visible as water being thick purple goop for it to be disregarded. Maybe it is just artwork that's bad, but Tom's skill and attention to detail means if he wants it to be opaque purple goop there is a reason. Slight amounts of water like that don't retain their colour, they are transparent. |
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laaaa
Full Member
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Post by laaaa on Jul 26, 2022 9:37:05 GMT
It's the Omega device!
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Post by Igniz on Jul 26, 2022 14:39:07 GMT
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Post by maxptc on Jul 26, 2022 18:32:24 GMT
It being a very large lake is the least magical outcome I can think of. The way everyone is acting is from finding out they are land locked and have not been living in the part of the UK they thought.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 176
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Post by heranje on Jul 27, 2022 1:29:38 GMT
I wonder whether the stunned shock everyone is displaying is because of what the Court just told them - or what they just did. On the previous page, there didn't seem to be that many people standing in the water - not as many as I'd expect to be at a meeting about the entire Court moving anyway. Maybe these are the people who chose to stay behind, and they're staring in disbelief after the rest of the Court left across (or into) the not-ocean?
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Post by Runningflame on Jul 27, 2022 2:06:40 GMT
How have we all missed the most obvious theory till now?
The ocean... is Coyote too!
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Post by Runningflame on Jul 27, 2022 2:32:05 GMT
More seriously, I think the water looks purple because it's nighttime. The Torn Sea is a good reference: during daytime, the water looks blue; after dark, it looks (to me) about the same color as it does now. Similarly, the lake in Power Station looks purple. See also the same lake in Spring Heeled, especially panel 4 here. This purple color might be plot-relevant, but it might also be because purple is a thematic color for the Court. I notice that the Annan Waters look less purple (though, arguably, similarly "gooey"). Interestingly, the pond in the Forest doesn't seem to be any particular color; instead, it reflects the green and brown colors of the Forest. |
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Post by jda on Jul 27, 2022 4:44:15 GMT
"... it is THE ocean, Annie!"
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Post by speedwell on Jul 27, 2022 8:13:38 GMT
More seriously, I think the water looks purple because it's nighttime. The Torn Sea is a good reference: during daytime, the water looks blue; after dark, it looks (to me) about the same color as it does now. Similarly, the lake in Power Station looks purple. See also the same lake in Spring Heeled, especially panel 4 here. This purple color might be plot-relevant, but it might also be because purple is a thematic color for the Court. I notice that the Annan Waters look less purple (though, arguably, similarly "gooey"). Interestingly, the pond in the Forest doesn't seem to be any particular color; instead, it reflects the green and brown colors of the Forest. Agreed. Also I doubt a group of shocked, horrified people who just had their worldview roughly rumpled would immediately go stand mutely about knee-deep in the mysterious purple goo. And Kat would have said, "This isn't really water". So it's water - just not ocean water. |
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Post by Gemminie on Jul 27, 2022 14:53:21 GMT
Kat might mean, given "She Gave Us an Ocean," that the ocean before them is not the ocean of greater possibilities for identity and ideas that the robots/New People now have. It's something else. I can't even tell from Kat's expression whether it's a positive or negative thing, just somehow an astonishing or surprising thing. But she may mean that it's either something less (a new world, but one with much less possibility for expression and individuality) or something more (an entire universe, compared with which even an ocean is infinitesimally small).
I'm still wondering: the Court wants to be completely separated from the Ether, but they're seemingly planning on using etheric means to achieve that. Is that even possible? Whatever they're going to do (create a pocket dimension, make a group mind, go to another country), are they going to set up some kind of etheric sump pump to make sure that any Ether that gets in is shoved right out again?
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Post by Isildur on Jul 27, 2022 20:11:44 GMT
What if the important part isn't "Ocean" but "an"? As in, this isn't an ocean, but the very idea of the ocean, as humans thought of it for eons, made manifest in the sub-world of Gillitie Forest and the Court much as the creatures of Gillitie were made manifest.
It's very curious how Kat previously speculated about it perhaps being the Atlantic. It's almost like there's a mind barrier going on that prevents GC people from thinking too critically about the fact that nothing in GC can really make sense as a direct part of the outer world's geography -- Jones being thrown into orbit, interaction with a satellite (and even the Moon), and vacations in Scotland and Spain notwithstanding.
I mean, you could imagine the outside Earth of GC being a very different one from ours, but Tom seems to resist going that route -- outside areas seem to be pretty grounded in our own reality, in glimpses we get of the outside, except for Tony discovering some other hidden mystical pockets.
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Post by Isildur on Jul 27, 2022 20:27:04 GMT
except that Coyote seems to be immune to all systems and logic of the ether so he probably has powers outside of it. Coyote has Admin prilevages If they're trapped in a bubble of ether or whatever, there's no guarantee that "London" isn't just Etheric London or the holodeck version of London. You board a simulated train to simulated London, and arrive at simulated Paddington. "The Developers Think Of Everything." = I'll admit part of me thought of the pragmatic answer: if you walk due west from Blackpool, you don't end up in the Atlantic OCEAN, because there's this emerald landmass full of Guinness and leprechauns in the way. You end up in the Irish SEA. A problem of it being a bubble reality that extends outward to simulating other regions as well, may be that this would turn Coyote's star paradox into a non-paradox (Coyote, under such a scheme, would have placed the pocket reality stars, not the external reality stars). Yet that chapter seems to make plain to us that there is a paradox that cannot be resolved so easily. |
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Post by todd on Jul 27, 2022 23:46:34 GMT
I'm still wondering: the Court wants to be completely separated from the Ether, but they're seemingly planning on using etheric means to achieve that. Is that even possible? Whatever they're going to do (create a pocket dimension, make a group mind, go to another country), are they going to set up some kind of etheric sump pump to make sure that any Ether that gets in is shoved right out again? I've wondered about that as well - including the possibility that the Court is lying about something (most likely the "completely separated from the Ether" part), which, given its past, is believable. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 29, 2022 10:26:44 GMT
Kat might mean, given "She Gave Us an Ocean," that the ocean before them is not the ocean of greater possibilities for identity and ideas that the robots/New People now have. Does she even know about this metaphor? |
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Post by speedwell on Jul 29, 2022 14:50:31 GMT
Kat might mean, given "She Gave Us an Ocean," that the ocean before them is not the ocean of greater possibilities for identity and ideas that the robots/New People now have. Does she even know about this metaphor? If it's a common experience, like an app or interface Robot used to manage all of the embodiments, I think it is more likely than not at least one New Person mentioned it in passing. After all the likelihood is high that she was involved in its development in some way. Of course we readers know Robot is a rogue Seraph and apt to "set his own policy", as the recently fired British MP is said to have done, but I think Kat trusts him even if some robot somewhere recalls processing him into a pile of office supplies. |
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Post by Gemminie on Jul 29, 2022 15:02:16 GMT
Kat might mean, given "She Gave Us an Ocean," that the ocean before them is not the ocean of greater possibilities for identity and ideas that the robots/New People now have. Does she even know about this metaphor? A valid question, to which the answer, I think, is "we don't know." It's not established whether the "ocean" experienced by the robot consciousness in that chapter was an intentional part of the transition process as designed by Kat and Juliette, or whether it was something that Robot added to the process, or whether it was something that particular robot consciousness invented to visualize what was happening to it. In fact, it isn't even established that other robot consciousnesses had the same or even a similar experience. Perhaps others experienced the vastness of space, the infinite possibilities of mathematics, or an even more abstract visualization. But extrapolating from the fact that "ocean" is the last word of the chapter and therefore in a significant position, and the word "ocean" was metaphorically significant in another chapter, I'm speculating that the two may be related in some way. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it's an interesting idea to consider. Perhaps it's not an ocean but an even bigger thing; perhaps it is to human consciousness what a humanlike consciousness is to a robot consciousness. I've been speculating for a while that the new place the Court wants its people to really go to isn't a place but some kind of group mind, like uploading all their minds into a computer or at least some sort of virtual reality. Perhaps what looks like water isn't water but nanotechnology, and by wading in it you connect your nervous system to the network. Perhaps some have already submerged themselves in it, but Kat and the others we see are still just testing the waters. Perhaps this is completely not what's happening. |
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anag
New Member
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Post by anag on Jul 30, 2022 0:36:17 GMT
She found her father's stash
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anag
New Member
Posts: 38
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Post by anag on Jul 30, 2022 0:37:20 GMT
Look at her feet; that's not water. Seems like ether? They've been collecting it with so called power plant? But how come then that renard hasn't been able to spot it?
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I think it's too early to rule out anything here.
