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Post by ctso74 on Jul 20, 2022 16:11:19 GMT
Santayana: "Fanaticism consists of redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your goal."
Santa: "Ho, ho- Holy crap, Robot!... A lump of coal for you, then."
I suppose Robot could be do some complex Ether logic maneuvering(snaring if you will), but maybe he's not. Either way, real shady.
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Post by foxurus on Jul 20, 2022 16:17:23 GMT
We don't know if Loup is bound by his promises like Coyote was, do we? If he is, the NPs could capture him right there and then and there wouldn't be anything he could do about it. On the other hand, Annie describes him as having no limits and given what we've seen of his whimsical behaviour so far, he probably could go back on his word if he really felt like it. "Coyote is no liar" and "If Coyote promised no harm would come to you, you can be certain he will make sure of it" are quotes from Jones in The Medium Beginning. At the moment I can't find other times he's said to not lie, though I think there are some. I don't think anyone's ever said he couldn't lie though. I bet it was just another one of his self-imposed rules that made things more interesting for him. So no, I doubt Loup is forbidden from lying. To everyone saying Robot had to keep a narrow scope or else Loup would refuse the deal, the point is Robot never needed to make this deal at all. He could've gone to Kat or Annie and told them where Loup is. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 20, 2022 16:40:43 GMT
Is it just me, or does "do not harm any of the newly awakened" also exclude Kat, since she is not newly awakened? If so, not including the Angel would be a whole dimension colder than not caring about his friends and Shadow. He did include her in the previous page. Not exactly. He only spoke of "the work of the Angel". Someone's work can be carried on by others.
remember when robot was physically and mentally abused by the court and almost killed annie good times The Court certainly turned Robot's body into paper clips and kept his CPU for study? The Court didn't even do that, it was the other robots. Robot society seems to have policed itself.
We don't know if Loup is bound by his promises like Coyote was, do we? If he is, the NPs could capture him right there and then and there wouldn't be anything he could do about it. On the other hand, Annie describes him as having no limits and given what we've seen of his whimsical behaviour so far, he probably could go back on his word if he really felt like it. "Coyote is no liar" and "If Coyote promised no harm would come to you, you can be certain he will make sure of it" are quotes from Jones in The Medium Beginning. At the moment I can't find other times he's said to not lie, though I think there are some. I don't think anyone's ever said he couldn't lie though. I bet it was just another one of his self-imposed rules that made things more interesting for him. So no, I doubt Loup is forbidden from lying. To everyone saying Robot had to keep a narrow scope or else Loup would refuse the deal, the point is Robot never needed to make this deal at all. He could've gone to Kat or Annie and told them where Loup is. Loup said "He may never lie, but he also does not tell the truth." about Coyote. In other words, only a fool would take what Coyote says literally. But I also believe it is only a self-imposed rule Coyote follows for fun, just like he chooses to deliberately not know certain things. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jul 20, 2022 17:52:05 GMT
I feel like there has to be some sort of hidden agenda to this Faustian bargain that Robot has made.
Loup clearly thinks he has a non-aggression pact with Robot and the New People. Don't mess with the NPCs, and they won't reveal Loup's big secret.
The deal even seems to favor Loup. The agreement doesn't include Annie, or possibly even Kat, depending upon how much rules lawyering Loup does.
But there is a way that Robot could turn the pact to his advantage — if a few NPCs stick around near Annie or Kat, it would hamper Loup's ability to attack without causing collateral damage.
(Assuming of course, that Loup upholds his end of the bargain. Either way, once the pact is broken, Robot also would be able to warn Annie about Jerrek.)
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Post by drmemory on Jul 20, 2022 21:22:07 GMT
I'm actually a bit worried about the absence of Shadow 2, as well as the way Robot didn't bother to include him in the deal.
Could it be that Shadow already did something that inconvenienced Robot, and was disposed of as a result?
The only other thing I can think of is a belief that Shadow 2 is safe from harm. I really don't believe he is (was?) invulnerable to harm. We've seen Eglamore kill a shadow man with a mere sword, so Loup would certainly have many ways to do such a thing with his powers.
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Post by lonestarf1 on Jul 20, 2022 21:53:26 GMT
So, not only weren't Robot's actions about Shadow, but he didn't even include him in his deal? He might have left Shadow out on purpose. Let's not forget that it could be a problem if Loup realized what he was. Coyote view the shadow-people as failed attempts to create people. All he needed to do was slice 'em up from the ground to finish the job! But I believe it's been mentioned at least once that they were keeping him secret from Coyote, and I suspect the same would be true of Loup. |
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Post by Runningflame on Jul 21, 2022 0:31:58 GMT
Also, it may be a trap: if this agreement is binding at the Ethereal level because of Loup's nature, his plans could be foiled by the awakened girl's developing feelings for his humanoid persona. Breaking her heart may constitute "harm" and Loup's identity may be revealed automatically by some magical mechanism of clause-breach enforcement. Reminds me of the Isaac Asimov story " Liar!" |
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Post by drmemory on Jul 21, 2022 3:49:32 GMT
More comments on the deal: Loup wouldn't have agreed to anything that would cost him anything, or even inconvenience him. He just doesn't care about anything non-Annie-related. I have a hunch that Robot just wants to buy a little time, to finish the NP-ization of the remaining robots. He doesn't believe Loup will stick to the deal if he doesn't feel like it any more than we do.
Still not quite sure what Robot's end-game is though. Best guess - leave, with all of them, perhaps heading for some kind of promised land. I'd almost think he planned to take over from the Court except that we know many of the robots actually like humans, and like working for them. Meaning many of them wouldn't go along with any sort of violent rebellion. Probably.
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Post by jda on Jul 21, 2022 4:11:27 GMT
Reminds me of the Isaac Asimov story " Liar!" oui, Asimovians unite! nice to emeet you| |
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Post by Ophel on Jul 21, 2022 6:23:42 GMT
If we're also looking deep into what is and isn't said in the deal, we can also consider this:
Robot is, in all technicality, not part of the newly awakened.
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 21, 2022 14:32:20 GMT
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Post by drmemory on Jul 21, 2022 15:09:35 GMT
True enough.  Hmmm. I will think more. It's hard to get into Tom's mindset because he is just so much nicer and less warped than me. |
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Post by blahzor on Jul 21, 2022 23:07:35 GMT
We don't know if Loup is bound by his promises like Coyote was, do we? If he is, the NPs could capture him right there and then and there wouldn't be anything he could do about it. On the other hand, Annie describes him as having no limits and given what we've seen of his whimsical behaviour so far, he probably could go back on his word if he really felt like it. "Coyote is no liar" and "If Coyote promised no harm would come to you, you can be certain he will make sure of it" are quotes from Jones in The Medium Beginning. At the moment I can't find other times he's said to not lie, though I think there are some. I don't think anyone's ever said he couldn't lie though. I bet it was just another one of his self-imposed rules that made things more interesting for him. So no, I doubt Loup is forbidden from lying. To everyone saying Robot had to keep a narrow scope or else Loup would refuse the deal, the point is Robot never needed to make this deal at all. He could've gone to Kat or Annie and told them where Loup is. There was some other time it's said Coyote doesn't lie. I can't remember where but it was early on |
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Post by Timberwere on Jul 22, 2022 7:06:05 GMT
Is it just me, or does "do not harm any of the newly awakened" also exclude Kat, since she is not newly awakened? If so, not including the Angel would be a whole dimension colder than not caring about his friends and Shadow. He did include her in the previous page. Yes, I saw the previous page, but it still struck me as weird/cold that he would not mention her here. |
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Hmmm. I will think more. It's hard to get into Tom's mindset because he is just so much nicer and less warped than me.
