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Post by philman on May 30, 2022 7:01:21 GMT
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Post by jda on May 30, 2022 7:03:47 GMT
Well, when your friend is a classic scientist nerd, you still need to remember that she is a classic scientist nerd.
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Post by maxptc on May 30, 2022 7:09:17 GMT
Mad super villain vibes from Kat recently. Better path doesn't mean she isn't gonna conquer the planet.
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Post by madjack on May 30, 2022 7:10:11 GMT
Called it.
And some of the best Annie faces in a while on this page.
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Post by yellowb on May 30, 2022 7:32:36 GMT
Totally new kind of Annie faces. Love them.
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Post by speedwell on May 30, 2022 9:27:32 GMT
I have a subscription to Physics World and I was just sitting there reading it while having breakfast. Then I came here. I am missing the point somehow as I utterly fail to see what's so terrifying. Really the opposite...if you can control your starting conditions that precisely then you can literally solve cause-and-effect problems. Don't just take my word for it.
It occurs to me to wonder what sort of breakfast Tom has every morning if an experienced, widely-read middle-aged person with a reasonable layman's knowledge of alchemy, comparative religion and mythology, and current topics in physics, medicine, robotics, engineering, philosophy, and linguistics can barely keep up. The Rosicrucians would laugh me to scorn if I asked them, "hey, can you help me decipher this webcomic?".  |
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Post by Alkazar on May 30, 2022 9:30:37 GMT
I don't know if I'm ready for another round of Annie's "Don't leave me!"-fears.
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Post by pyradonis on May 30, 2022 10:23:33 GMT
There are rules and restrictions right now? Kat, you have been doing whatever you fancied for years now, including time travel and creating new life.
Well, considering the shit the Court has been up to while allegedly being bound by regular rules and restrictions, I agree with Annie that the perspective is indeed terrifying.
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Post by arf on May 30, 2022 10:48:45 GMT
Research!? Annie's terrified of having to surreptitiously copy Kat's notes again.
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Post by Tenjen on May 30, 2022 10:58:18 GMT
Anything too good to be true ussually is.
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Post by Georgie L on May 30, 2022 13:04:03 GMT
I have a subscription to Physics World and I was just sitting there reading it while having breakfast. Then I came here. I am missing the point somehow as I utterly fail to see what's so terrifying. I think the "that would be terrifying" thing is specifically to the part "without rules or regulations" Some rules and regulations do exist for good reasons, such as laws of ethical testing, instead of releasing untested and potentially dangerous experimental results |
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Post by madjack on May 30, 2022 13:14:39 GMT
I have a subscription to Physics World and I was just sitting there reading it while having breakfast. Then I came here. I am missing the point somehow as I utterly fail to see what's so terrifying. I think the "that would be terrifying" thing is specifically to the part "without rules or regulations" Some rules and regulations do exist for good reasons, such as laws of ethical testing, instead of releasing untested and potentially dangerous experimental results Your post reminded me that once upon a time, Kat got really upset at the lack of ethics on display. Perhaps Paz will be the one to keep her grounded this time, too, assuming Annie doesn't manage it. |
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Post by rafk on May 30, 2022 13:31:31 GMT
Kat gets it. Mad Science means never stopping to ask "what's the worst thing that could happen?"
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Post by drmemory on May 30, 2022 15:21:27 GMT
Kat has it backwards. The court doesn't like letting robots get too close (similar) to humans, and she's had to go to a lot of trouble and get help from others to hide her work due to their disapproval. Why the heck does she think that going off somewhere where she'd be alone with the court, with no non-human entities, would allow her more freedom? I'd expect just the obvious - more rules and more restrictions and a heck of a lot more oversight! I don't at all get where she got this idea from! We haven't seen anyone say anything like that, have we?
Whatever is causing this, I think we're finally seeing a clue to the dark future the Norns were worried about for Kat.
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Post by theonethatgotaway on May 30, 2022 15:22:19 GMT
Wait wait, I just had a brain fart: so Kat is going all "gosh golly, so cool going some place new, and doing whatever you want without the rules and regulations put into place in this stuffy old place!" But Kat, dear, shining godess of robotness... The rules and regulations came for a HUGE part of the people that are leaving and 'starting anew'! If you stayed behind and the old farts moved away, you could do whatever the hell you wanted anyway! It'd be like one of those '80s movies where the kids found out their parents left them alone in the house! There would be LESS rules in Gunnerkrigg Court after everyone that didn't like thinking of the icky Ether left. The only problem of course being Loup and the Forest running wild, but that can probably be handled in a sensible matter... probably. Edit: woops, wrong thread! This was meant for 2630! |
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Post by speedwell on May 30, 2022 15:27:12 GMT
I see everyone's point, heh. I suppose I was assuming Paz would provide the necessary ethical counterweight to Kat's mad scientist tendencies. I think I could trust myself in that position, but I'm something like four times Kat's age.
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Post by basser on May 30, 2022 16:28:43 GMT
Of course Kat feels burdened by the ethics review, girl created a new sentient race and gave them the concept of pain.
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Post by maxptc on May 30, 2022 17:27:00 GMT
Humans have done some pretty awful things out of sadism, hate, greed and precived necessity. But curiosity, desire for progress/understanding and unfettered intelligence have also made a pretty competitive showing for horrible ethical failures. Honestly I wouldn't be shocked if Kat goes/left in the first timeline, it would certainly explain where her eldritch horror body came from.
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Post by maxptc on May 30, 2022 17:34:56 GMT
I see everyone's point, heh. I suppose I was assuming Paz would provide the necessary ethical counterweight to Kat's mad scientist tendencies. I think I could trust myself in that position, but I'm something like four times Kat's age. Most people would trust themselves in that postion, which is precisely why the prospect is so scary. The leaders of the Court no doubt think they got this all figured out. |
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Post by sleepcircle on May 30, 2022 18:25:02 GMT
Most people would trust themselves in that position, which is precisely why the prospect is so scary. i believe you have put your finger precisely on the nub, crux, or gist of the matter |
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Post by mturtle7 on May 30, 2022 18:52:24 GMT
I...ok, I get the gist of what's supposed to be the emotional tone of this scene, but logically speaking I'm rather confused about what "rules and regulations" Kat is talking about. As far as we've seen, the upper echelons of the Court are literally the only people who've ever tried or wanted to impose any rules or regulations on her research...hell even her parents have been aggressively enthusiastic about letting her do science freely and unsupervised! Furthermore, I thought the entire reason the Court was moving away was so they could escape Etheric contamination, and the Ether is pretty much the opposite of "the regular rules and restrictions."
I can see why Kat would feel trapped and restricted lately, but again, there's no damn way that leaving would help with that. As far as we've seen, all her most recent research either involves one of three things: etheric artifacts like the Arrow or Anja's Computer, the New People (ex-robots), or Loup's primordial wood-stone substance. Every single one of those avenues of research requires her to stay right where she is! What's she getting all wistful about, then???
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Post by maxptc on May 30, 2022 19:26:47 GMT
The rules and restrictions we are talking about here are cause and effect right? It's basically being able to temporarily get around the testing, practicalities, unforseen circumstances and any other difficulties of progress, requiring only the idea to see the result. Turning potentially anyone into an all knowing jerk.
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Post by Gemini Jim on May 30, 2022 20:40:18 GMT
I went to a Montessori School as a little kid, so my knee-jerk reaction to "a place where you could follow any line of research" was "yeah, why not?" But yeah, after reading the comments... or at least skimming  ... this is a lot more complicated than Kat is making it sound. |
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Post by pyradonis on May 30, 2022 20:58:45 GMT
Most people would trust themselves in that postion, which is precisely why the prospect is so scary. The leaders of the Court no doubt think they got this all figured out. That is a scarily wise assessment. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on May 30, 2022 22:06:34 GMT
I see everyone's point, heh. I suppose I was assuming Paz would provide the necessary ethical counterweight to Kat's mad scientist tendencies. I think I could trust myself in that position, but I'm something like four times Kat's age. Relying on another person to keep your ethics in check is highly problematic at best. |
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Post by jda on May 31, 2022 3:05:14 GMT
I see everyone's point, heh. I suppose I was assuming Paz would provide the necessary ethical counterweight to Kat's mad scientist tendencies. I think I could trust myself in that position, but I'm something like four times Kat's age. Relying on another person to keep your ethics in check is highly problematic at best. Then I'd love your take on Dungeons and Dragons roleplaying |
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Post by maxptc on May 31, 2022 3:08:56 GMT
Relying on another person to keep your ethics in check is highly problematic at best. Then I'd love your take on Dungeons and Dragons roleplaying "Relying on another person to keep your ethics in check is highly problematic at best" is about as apt a description of my DnD groups as possible. |
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Post by jda on May 31, 2022 3:10:45 GMT
Of course Kat feels burdened by the ethics review, girl created a new sentient race and gave them the concept of pain. Im sure it has been brought on before, but Kat in this light is Dr. Frankenstein |
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Post by Runningflame on May 31, 2022 4:03:39 GMT
Careful there, Kat.
"You must learn, child, that what would be wrong for you or for any of the common people is not wrong in a great Queen such as I. The weight of the world is on our shoulders. We must be freed from all rules. Ours is a high and lonely destiny."
- Queen Jadis of Charn (aka the White Witch)
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 176
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Post by heranje on May 31, 2022 10:04:45 GMT
I think I could trust myself in that position, but I'm something like four times Kat's age. As someone working as a researcher, rules and restrictions also exist because it is pretty much impossible for one person (or a small group of people) to foresee or consider all the potentially damaging effects of their work. We've arrived at present-day ethical restrictions to research through an extremely long line of researchers causing harm, mostly unintentionally - and we still do. The process of determining how research should be restricted and controlled is as iterative as research-based knowledge itself. In fact, research ethics and responsible science is its own field of research. I'm not sure that's exactly what Kat is talking about though, since as many people have pointed out the Court is the only entity currently (nominally) formally restricting her research activities, and they would have more control in this new place. I think she's getting at something more akin to "the rules and restrictions of this present reality", though I'm not sure that meshes with the skepticism she expressed about what the omega device can do. Definitely feels like this is pointing toward Zimmy's vision of what would have become of Kat if Annie wasn't around to (likely) influence her to stay. |
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... this is a lot more complicated than Kat is making it sound.
