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Post by theonethatgotaway on May 25, 2022 7:02:37 GMT
Wonderful misdirection of Annie there! Let's see if this holds up, seems like Kat is not that into the discussion. Why would you make your mind up like that, Donlan? Haven't you seen all the crazy stuff that happens all around you? Also, Rey's a real scholar.
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Post by stef1987 on May 25, 2022 7:09:20 GMT
Oh, so they're just not gonna remark on the Jerrek thing
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Post by philman on May 25, 2022 7:14:38 GMT
Just coming in to say that I like Kat's new hairstyle. That is all.
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Post by basser on May 25, 2022 7:15:00 GMT
I feel both seen and oddly called out.
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Post by arkadi on May 25, 2022 7:18:51 GMT
Maybe the real ether was the quantum events we met along the way?
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Post by theonethatgotaway on May 25, 2022 7:27:03 GMT
Maybe the real ether was the quantum events we met along the way? That's unfair! They only happened because you were observing them! |
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Post by arf on May 25, 2022 7:49:13 GMT
"You say <po|random quantum events|tato>, I say <pot|ether|ato>..."
(Of course, we all know it's down to the timey-wimey stuff, really, don't we?)
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Post by jda on May 25, 2022 7:51:09 GMT
Maybe the real ether was the quantum events we met along the way? I see what you did there. |
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Post by csj on May 25, 2022 7:55:32 GMT
not the quantum superposition that kat might have in mind |
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Post by Igniz on May 25, 2022 10:13:27 GMT
So the Jerrek conundrum was simply ignored and waved off. OK... I find a little strange (and very, very mildly suspicious) that, after all that has happened, including recent events such as meeting Norse goddesses, meddling with the past, and seeing Annie reunificated and re-fused via a Zimmy ex machina, as well as having the Wood Release: Forestsunami jutsu released next door, Kat is still scullying and so willing to throw the Omega MacGuffin Device out the window just like that. |
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Post by pyradonis on May 25, 2022 10:15:57 GMT
Ah yes, if Kat believes it is impossible, then it must be so. Just like time travel is impossible.
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Post by speedwell on May 25, 2022 10:17:18 GMT
I think everyone who has wondered if Smitty is either the Omega device or the, for lack of a better term, the anti-Omega device (that is, he will be key to neutralising or harnessing it) should start pouring the milk in anticipation of their cookies now.
At the very least his power is a concise rebuttal of what Kat said.
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Post by TBeholder on May 25, 2022 10:32:15 GMT
Ah, yes. Baiting your friendly neighbour mad scientist, or what’s the worst that could happen? (insert pause for recovery from reflexive ducking) Maybe the real ether was the quantum events we met along the way? That's unfair! They only happened because you were observing them! A-and that's the point. |
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laaaa
Full Member
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Post by laaaa on May 25, 2022 11:53:46 GMT
So the Jerrek conundrum was simply ignored and waved off. OK... I find a little strange (and very, very mildly suspicious) that, after all that has happened, including recent events such as meeting Norse goddesses, meddling with the past, and seeing Annie reunificated and re-fused via a Zimmy ex machina, as well as having the Wood Release: Forestsunami jutsu released next door, Kat is still scullying and so willing to throw the Omega MacGuffin Device out the window just like that. Well, Court dislikes the ether because of its weirdness and unfairness and wants to ignore/override it... So it kinda makes sense that the Court would like to be independent from it and therefore that Omega wouldn't use ether. And without ether, an Omega device is impossible. So Omega must be using ether to function. The irony. |
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Post by blahzor on May 25, 2022 12:07:13 GMT
Oh, so they're just not gonna remark on the Jerrek thing him? he's a nobody and pobody's nerfect |
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Post by najmniejszy on May 25, 2022 12:09:25 GMT
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Post by todd on May 25, 2022 12:37:35 GMT
While Kat brings up some good points, I still suspect that the Omega Device would have to exist (in the story), since it seems to be central to the Court's doings (and to Loup's statement that the Court's doings are eroding his maintenance of the Forest).
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Post by ctso74 on May 25, 2022 13:24:54 GMT
I could literally hear Kat roll her Scully eyes. It sounded like the stone secret passage sound effect.
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Post by maxptc on May 25, 2022 13:32:59 GMT
Im happy they are moving on, the entire Jerrek situation is super creepy and I'm happy to get back to Omega which is a cooler plot point.
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Post by arkadi on May 25, 2022 13:54:56 GMT
Maybe the real ether was the quantum events we met along the way? That's unfair! They only happened because you were observing them! It was destined! |
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Post by warrl on May 25, 2022 15:29:09 GMT
While Kat brings up some good points, I still suspect that the Omega Device would have to exist (in the story), since it seems to be central to the Court's doings (and to Loup's statement that the Court's doings are eroding his maintenance of the Forest). I believe that the Omega Device exists (in story) and that the Court believes it works. Whether it actually works, or works the way the Court thinks it works... well, that's undetermined. |
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Post by DonDueed on May 25, 2022 15:52:13 GMT
I was going to accuse you of gluttony for your multi-cookie request. Then I reread your post.
One batch of cookies on route.
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Post by Isildur on May 25, 2022 16:07:04 GMT
I feel both seen and oddly called out. Yes, at the risk of meriting a Carly-Simon-ish rebuke for vanity, I couldn't help but wonder if forum posts played at least some part in inspiring the writing of Kat's remarks here. |
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Post by maxptc on May 25, 2022 16:17:49 GMT
If im being honest, I don't know how anyone in the GK or any magic world can dismiss anything without deep investigation. Anytime something gets dismissed as impossible offhand in these kinds of stories, my brain says "oh so it's real, and not impossible"
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Post by Corvo on May 25, 2022 16:54:53 GMT
Science's got nothing on the ether, yoh!
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Post by bedinsis on May 25, 2022 18:13:02 GMT
I feel both seen and oddly called out. Yes, at the risk of meriting a Carly-Simon-ish rebuke for vanity, I couldn't help but wonder if forum posts played at least some part in inspiring the writing of Kat's remarks here. I thought Mr. Siddell kept a healthy buffer of three chapters? |
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Post by Gemminie on May 25, 2022 18:24:14 GMT
We follow Annie, Kat, and Renard as they go back toward habitable areas of the Court. Far from dwelling on Jerrek, Annie immediately brings up the Omega Device.
And finally we see Kat weigh in on the topic. She seems dismissive of it, not believing that it's even possible for such a thing to exist. There are too many random elements in the universe, she says. Radioactive decay, quantum tunneling, and vacuum fluctuations are a few that I can think of. And there's a constant torrent of neutrinos passing through us; occasionally one will interact with something, and there's no predicting when that will happen.
Renard puts this in the context of the Ether. Kat rolls her eyes with a long-suffering smile when Renard equates random quantum events with the Ether, ending the page with a humorous beat.
At this point I have no idea what the next page might contain. This conversation could continue, although I'm not sure what more there is to be said. Kat and Renard could change the subject and bring up Jerrek. Or we could cut away entirely. If the chapter's going to end soon, it certainly hasn't ended with this page – there's no antimony symbol. And it would be a really short chapter if it did end now. This makes me suspicious that the snare we just saw Loup avoid isn't the only snare in this chapter. Either something's going to happen to these three as they're walking home, or we're going to cut away and see something happen to Lana and Jerrek, or ... I don't know. Also, we still haven't seen what this snare was like from Loup's point of view – I don't know whether we will, but we haven't yet.
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Post by Runningflame on May 25, 2022 18:57:37 GMT
Kat and Rey have had this kind of argument before. I feel both seen and oddly called out. Yes, at the risk of meriting a Carly-Simon-ish rebuke for vanity, I couldn't help but wonder if forum posts played at least some part in inspiring the writing of Kat's remarks here. In all seriousness, we know from the retrospectives that Tom does pay some attention to the reception the comic gets. But sometimes he also anticipates what the reaction's going to be and puts in something to head it off. |
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Post by drmemory on May 25, 2022 19:04:28 GMT
Well. Kat thinks the Omega concept is impossible because it must incorporate random factors, such as nuclear decay and quantum stuff. She's certainly not the only one to dislike what quantum did to traditional physics! But, I think she's being pretty short-sighted here, even narrow-minded. Just because you can't precisely predict an outcome because some of the inputs have a range of possible values doesn't mean you can't compute a range of outcomes and assign probabilities to them. Let's take an example of "Kat is hungry". You probably can't predict exactly what she is going to choose to eat. But, if you take into account her food preferences, availability of different foods based on her location and the time of day, and history of what she has chosen to eat in similar circumstances in the past, you can probably come up with her most likely selection with the probability of it being so, and the next several most likely, along with probabilities, on down to the least likely - ridiculous choices like picking something that doesn't exist because it is out of season or takes a year to prepare or whatever. Given a sufficiently detailed model, you could maybe get to the point of saying there is an 80% choice of her eating item A, 18% choice of item B, 1% of item C, and .333% of items D, E, and F. I think that's what Omega does. And most of the time it will be right - if she usually eats Tacos on Tuesday and it is Tuesday and there are Tacos available, it will probably happen. Perhaps Jerrek or Annie will help Kat think of it this way with a "little rock" type theory or something. Honestly, this isn't different from what I've said on the topic in the past, I'm just being more clear about it being stochastic. So if the court doesn't want Kat to eat Pizza for some reason, and the model says there is an 80% chance of that outcome, they could take steps to modify the outcome - hide the pizza or the ingredients, fire the cook, distract Kat so she doesn't have time to go where the pizza is, etc. They can mess with things to make the outcome they prefer be the most likely to whatever target p-level makes them happy. This is why Omega in the hands of the court is so scary. They could indeed use it to predict what is most likely to happen, to predict what other things COULD happen, and play "what if" with the simulation to make it so what they want to happen is most likely.
However, this is not without flaws! Even low-probability outcomes are still possible, no matter how much you mess with things, and I doubt very much whether they can take emotion and other inner workings of minds into account in sufficient detail to make this work the way they want. Then there are the physics-based uncertainties, and the ether to take into account. These may or may not be the same thing - I am sure opinions vary. 
So when you try to apply these theories to try and create a perfect little society, where the court knows exactly what will happen to a high probability, far enough in advance to head off undesirable outcomes (well minimize their probabilities)... things have a lot of ways to go bad. I will spare you more long text for now and just list a couple of possible bad outcomes:
- Omega takes over instead of doing what the Court wants
- Court rules with an iron fist, gets violent when things don't go the way they want
- Theory works as planned, and free will is eliminated
If I spent less time on stuff like this and more on trying to remember stuff, I bet my memory would improve! L O L (NOT Laughing On Line, whatever the hell that means!)
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Post by pyradonis on May 25, 2022 19:21:25 GMT
While Kat brings up some good points, I still suspect that the Omega Device would have to exist (in the story), since it seems to be central to the Court's doings (and to Loup's statement that the Court's doings are eroding his maintenance of the Forest). I think it's a given that it exists, or else either Tony would have to be lying, or the Court would have to have had to randomly send him to places to check predictions that didn't exist for absolutely no reason.
Which makes it even more strange for me that Kat dismisses it so easily. Not only has she seen so many "impossible" things be possible during her time at the Court that she could have breakfast at Milliways every morning, it also means she either calls Tony a liar, or dismisses all the work he's done for years.
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