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Post by philman on May 18, 2022 7:22:35 GMT
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 18, 2022 7:39:51 GMT
That collection of forest creatures were a bunch of herbivores, one omnivore (badger) and a small blue whatzit that might have been a carnivore. They'd make great prey or play for a wolf but they're not really dignified enough of a group for a forest god with a big ego to conceal himself in as one of them. Not sure what Renard is thinking there. Maybe he's projecting? That might be where Renard would want to hide if he'd never spent time in the Court before, or what he imagines he'd want. He's probably right about the lack of blood lust in the chase, though. |
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Post by philman on May 18, 2022 8:08:55 GMT
That collection of forest creatures were a bunch of herbivores, one omnivore (badger) and a small blue whatzit that might have been a carnivore. They'd make great prey or play for a wolf but they're not really dignified enough of a group for a forest god with a big ego to conceal himself in as one of them. Not sure what Renard is thinking there. Maybe he's projecting? That might be where Renard would want to hide if he'd never spent time in the Court before, or what he imagines he'd want. He's probably right about the lack of blood lust in the chase, though. Coyote once disguised himself as a dead goose, I am not sure the "prestige" of the animal is super important |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 18, 2022 8:34:46 GMT
That collection of forest creatures were a bunch of herbivores, one omnivore (badger) and a small blue whatzit that might have been a carnivore. They'd make great prey or play for a wolf but they're not really dignified enough of a group for a forest god with a big ego to conceal himself in as one of them. Not sure what Renard is thinking there. Maybe he's projecting? That might be where Renard would want to hide if he'd never spent time in the Court before, or what he imagines he'd want. He's probably right about the lack of blood lust in the chase, though. Coyote once disguised himself as a dead goose, I am not sure the "prestige" of the animal is super important Not to Coyote. "Loup" on the other hand? |
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Post by ctso74 on May 18, 2022 13:59:59 GMT
Coyote once disguised himself as a dead goose, I am not sure the "prestige" of the animal is super important Not to Coyote. "Loup" on the other hand? The list of freaky things Coyote has done, is longer than Saslamel's "Terms and Conditions". |
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Post by Gemminie on May 18, 2022 14:45:17 GMT
Renard returns (assuming he was there earlier) to the hiding place, immediately drawing the wrong conclusion Loup wanted him to draw: that Loup is hiding among the Forest creatures in the Forest ruins. He goes on to reason correctly, though, that Loup could have caught him easily but chose not to. Annie is concerned about what might have happened if he'd been caught, while Lana still has a wide-eyed stare and a death grip on that earthmover tool. Renard then worries that Loup isn't taking this seriously. And then, in the final frame of the page, we see Jerrek, with a frustrated expression on his face, off-center.
I want to seize on that detail for some reason. Tom could've centered Jerrek's face in that frame but chose not to, instead filling most of that frame with vaguely-drawn background vegetation. What could the purpose of that be? I suggest that it's for contrast with the next frame, which we obviously haven't seen yet. He's about to say something, and when he does, he'll take center frame. That's my prediction, and we'll see whether I'm right or wrong. But if I'm right, what will he say? Will he reveal anything? Will he arouse anyone's suspicions?
Still wondering why Lana and Jerrek were even included in the plan, and why they were here. I suspected, as others on the forum did, that there were other people around, like Smitty and Parley, Eglamore, Robot and Shadow, Juliette, Zimmy and Gamma, etc., but that doesn't seem to be the case. Why bring a couple of New People and not old friends?
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Post by stef1987 on May 18, 2022 14:55:45 GMT
I don't get Annie's reply here.
And why does Renard fear Loup isn't taking this serious? Why would that be a bad thing?
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Post by maxptc on May 18, 2022 17:19:12 GMT
I don't get Annie's reply here. And why does Renard fear Loup isn't taking this serious? Why would that be a bad thing? If Loup isn't taking the opportunity to take the power Rey has and if he isn't worried about them killing him, it puts them at even more of a disadvantage. We as the audience know Loup is curious about Omega/Court/Annie and we also know he is Jerrek. The gang doesnt know that, Loup wanting Reys power back and being informed of his impending death is about all they have to go on. Him not taking this opportunity to get Rey seriously means he is up to something else, or was aware of the trap and just playing along for some reason. We have a lot more information about Loup and his motives then the gang, aside from Jerrek of course. |
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Post by maxptc on May 18, 2022 17:33:00 GMT
Still wondering why Lana and Jerrek were even included in the plan, and why they were here. I suspected, as others on the forum did, that there were other people around, like Smitty and Parley, Eglamore, Robot and Shadow, Juliette, Zimmy and Gamma, etc., but that doesn't seem to be the case. Why bring a couple of New People and not old friends? I've been thinking about this point, and I have a weak theory. Annie and Kat don't typically go and explain what they are doing to anyone if they don't need that person, and with everyone being busy they arent going to ask for favors unless they need that person specifically. This plan didn't need anyone else, but Lana and Jerrek were around and in the know. Asking could have been a matter of proximity, Annie asking out of ease or Jerrek/Lana volunteering to help and the other following suit. Both have motivation to be around, Jerrek for obvious reasons and Lana because she is attached to Jerrek now. |
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Post by Runningflame on May 18, 2022 18:44:07 GMT
He's not taking this seriously? What a jer(re)k.
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Post by Runningflame on May 18, 2022 18:45:51 GMT
Renard returns (assuming he was there earlier) to the hiding place, immediately drawing the wrong conclusion Loup wanted him to draw: that Loup is hiding among the Forest creatures in the Forest ruins. He goes on to reason correctly, though, that Loup could have caught him easily but chose not to. Annie is concerned about what might have happened if he'd been caught, while Lana still has a wide-eyed stare and a death grip on that earthmover tool. Renard then worries that Loup isn't taking this seriously. And then, in the final frame of the page, we see Jerrek, with a frustrated expression on his face, off-center. I want to seize on that detail for some reason. Tom could've centered Jerrek's face in that frame but chose not to, instead filling most of that frame with vaguely-drawn background vegetation. What could the purpose of that be? I suggest that it's for contrast with the next frame, which we obviously haven't seen yet. He's about to say something, and when he does, he'll take center frame. That's my prediction, and we'll see whether I'm right or wrong. But if I'm right, what will he say? Will he reveal anything? Will he arouse anyone's suspicions? Reminds me of a similar final-panel reaction shot on this page. |
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Post by pyradonis on May 18, 2022 21:12:36 GMT
I don't get Annie's reply here. The way I understand it, Renard seems to be disappointed Loup could have easily caught him but didn't, and Annie, likely worried, feels the need to point out that they didn't want him to get caught anyway.
Why bring a couple of New People and not old friends? Best guess so far: 1. Annie was very impressed by Jerrek's insights and brought him along to analyze anything that happened. Lana is smitten with one of those two and so insisted on coming along, obviously not knowing what she was getting into. 2. The old friends all still work for the Court, and after what they learned from Shell they want to involve people with ties to the Court as little as possible (likely to protect both themselves and the others). The NP meanwhile are a secret faction and do not have any ties to the Court.
Coyote once disguised himself as a dead goose, I am not sure the "prestige" of the animal is super important Not to Coyote. "Loup" on the other hand? Is right now hiding as a perpetually blushing teenage boy with memory issues. |
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Post by bicarbonat on May 19, 2022 4:17:28 GMT
That collection of forest creatures were a bunch of herbivores, one omnivore (badger) and a small blue whatzit that might have been a carnivore. They'd make great prey or play for a wolf but they're not really dignified enough of a group for a forest god with a big ego to conceal himself in as one of them. Not sure what Renard is thinking there. Maybe he's projecting? That might be where Renard would want to hide if he'd never spent time in the Court before, or what he imagines he'd want. He's probably right about the lack of blood lust in the chase, though. Coyote once disguised himself as a dead goose, I am not sure the "prestige" of the animal is super important The fact that you remembered to say it was a dead goose is just [chef's kiss] |
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Post by warrl on May 19, 2022 4:26:24 GMT
I don't get Annie's reply here. The way I understand it, Renard seems to be disappointed Loup could have easily caught him but didn't, and Annie, likely worried, feels the need to point out that they didn't want him to get caught anyway. And perhaps Renard is complaining that HE didn't have to hardly try to get away - that he could have, and should have needed to, run much faster and been more evasive. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 19, 2022 5:11:33 GMT
Not to Coyote. "Loup" on the other hand? Is right now hiding as a perpetually blushing teenage boy with memory issues. ...the same teenage-appearing NP who was intimidating elf kids last chapter, arguably roughing one up a little, who then lost it a little when dissed by someone he'd just helped. I'm tellin' you guys, ego is in the mix here. "Loup" may have chosen to disguise himself as an NP(C?) because that's the first viable target he ran across but he didn't have to stay one. Hiding among the forest critters might have gotten "Loup" some spies or proxies and it's low-risk, which might appeal to Renard if he was in the same situation. Right now Jerroup is right next to Antimony (see panel 1) and, whatever an NP(C?) subsists on, he's not an herbivore associating with same. |
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Post by pyradonis on May 19, 2022 19:38:21 GMT
Is right now hiding as a perpetually blushing teenage boy with memory issues. ...the same teenage-appearing NP who was intimidating elf kids last chapter, arguably roughing one up a little, who then lost it a little when dissed by someone he'd just helped. I'm tellin' you guys, ego is in the mix here. "Loup" may have chosen to disguise himself as an NP(C?) because that's the first viable target he ran across but he didn't have to stay one. I'd argue he dropped out of character during the incidents you mentioned. Regardless, many small and/or herbivorous animals can get quite aggressive. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 19, 2022 20:03:03 GMT
...the same teenage-appearing NP who was intimidating elf kids last chapter, arguably roughing one up a little, who then lost it a little when dissed by someone he'd just helped. I'm tellin' you guys, ego is in the mix here. "Loup" may have chosen to disguise himself as an NP(C?) because that's the first viable target he ran across but he didn't have to stay one. I'd argue he dropped out of character during the incidents you mentioned. Regardless, many small and/or herbivorous animals can get quite aggressive. The badger, possibly, and the whatzit looks like a small predator of mice or whatever. The others will bite if cornered. "Loup" is a wolf and his previous version was proud of wolfhood. I'd argue that Ysengrin befriending* Antimony was what was out of character, encouraged by Coyote. *now possibly something creepier |
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Post by pyradonis on May 19, 2022 21:37:33 GMT
his previous version was proud of wolfhood. And yet he shaped his body to resemble that of a human... |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 20, 2022 1:10:14 GMT
his previous version was proud of wolfhood. And yet he shaped his body to resemble that of a human... Not sure I follow. Wouldn't that make "Loup" more likely to be among humans than the forest critters? |
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Post by yellowb on May 20, 2022 7:57:47 GMT
And yet he shaped his body to resemble that of a human... Not sure I follow. Wouldn't that make "Loup" more likely to be among humans than the forest critters? I'm guessing that was a reference to a comment Annie made in panel six here: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1078 |
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Post by pyradonis on May 20, 2022 8:44:24 GMT
Not sure I follow. Wouldn't that make "Loup" more likely to be among humans than the forest critters? I'm guessing that was a reference to a comment Annie made in panel six here: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1078Correct! I just didn't link the page because I could not remember which conversation this remark had been in. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 20, 2022 9:54:20 GMT
Hmm. I think maybe my OP wasn't clearly written and/or the point has been lost. I'll try again.
Renard's words in panel #1 strike me as strange and not just because Jeroop is there in the blind with them. Why would Renard go looking for "Loup" among the Wood critters in the first place? I don't think being a prey animal or even a small carnivore would be something "Loup" would be into and it doesn't seem that useful for him. I'm not saying he couldn't hide among them and I didn't mean that Coyote or some other god wouldn't, I meant that I don't think "Loup" would and I'm unsure why Renard thinks otherwise.
The only explanation I can think of for Renard going looking for "Loup" among the forest critters is that might be what Renard thinks he'd do if he was in "Loup's" place. Renard is tricky and mentally flexible, more willing to go along to get along. I think it's very likely he could learn whatever they knew about what the humans have been getting up to and could probably convince other creatures to act as his eyes, ears, and hands as long as it wasn't too dangerous. "Loup" mainly does things through intimidation or force; his disguised self would be better at socializing but his inner wolf would rage at what he'd have to put up with.
"Loup" is a wolf with a big ego. Wolves are predatory, territorial, and have a dominance hierarchy. If he disguised himself as something small and delicious I think the inner "Loup" just wouldn't have been able to put up with it this long. Leaving aside etheric creatures, humans are the apex predators on the planet. They're also territorial and have hierarchies. Even leaving aside Coyote's secret theory it's understandable that "Loup" has complex feelings about humans. They're competitors, domesticators (which may be the reason behind the look he gives Renard on the next page) and if the theory is correct, progenitors. I think "Loup" would have much less trouble (though still some) disguising himself as a human, which is more or less what he wound up doing. Not sure if he chose a NP(C?) by chance or design but it has worked out really well for him so far. Many odd things that he might do could be written off as getting used to his new body, memory issues, spotty knowledge about how to human, etc.
I guess the one thing in favor of Renard running around yelling at animals is that there isn't much risk of the Court noticing/caring what the kids are up to. The critters are probably keeping far from the humans.
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Post by maxptc on May 20, 2022 18:24:16 GMT
I mean they don't know Loup is disguised as anything, so they dont think he is actually chilling as a bunny or anything. Why wouldnt he hang out in the equivalent of the Forrest as Loup?
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Post by warrl on May 20, 2022 18:24:31 GMT
Don't forget that the common knowledge of wolf pack dynamics is about 98% wrong. (It's accurate for a pack that is created by humans taking a random assortment of wolves from different parts of the continent and shoving them together in a pen. This is, of course, the easiest sort of pack to observe: the humans get to set the pack's territorial boundary, and can rig cameras before adding wolves.)
In natural conditions, the standard wolf pack doesn't have "alphas" - instead it has "Mom and Dad".
The natural sort of wolf pack that most closely resembles the common knowledge is an "adolescent" pack - composed, essentially of the wolf equivalent of teenagers. Membership is temporary - older wolves will drift off to either form new standard packs (male-female pairs) in some vacant space, or find ways to join a standard pack in transition. Also, the adolescent packs tend to be migratory - looking for vacant space and transition packs - rather than territorial.
(The standard packs ARE territorial, and there is often combat between them and adolescent packs. Occasionally an adolescent pack will, by that combat, CREATE the conditions for some of them to stay behind when the pack moves on.)
A transition pack is when Mom and Dad are elderly and failing or have recently died. Initially, all the other wolves in the pack are brothers and sisters. An adolescent pack happens along, and one or two of the males will slide out of it and start courting the females of the transition pack - and eventually are accepted, and become Dad for the next generation.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 20, 2022 19:20:37 GMT
Don't forget that the common knowledge of wolf pack dynamics is about 98% wrong. (It's accurate for a pack that is created by humans taking a random assortment of wolves from different parts of the continent and shoving them together in a pen. This is, of course, the easiest sort of pack to observe: the humans get to set the pack's territorial boundary, and can rig cameras before adding wolves.) In natural conditions, the standard wolf pack doesn't have "alphas" - instead it has "Mom and Dad". The natural sort of wolf pack that most closely resembles the common knowledge is an "adolescent" pack - composed, essentially of the wolf equivalent of teenagers. Membership is temporary - older wolves will drift off to either form new standard packs (male-female pairs) in some vacant space, or find ways to join a standard pack in transition. Also, the adolescent packs tend to be migratory - looking for vacant space and transition packs - rather than territorial. (The standard packs ARE territorial, and there is often combat between them and adolescent packs. Occasionally an adolescent pack will, by that combat, CREATE the conditions for some of them to stay behind when the pack moves on.) A transition pack is when Mom and Dad are elderly and failing or have recently died. Initially, all the other wolves in the pack are brothers and sisters. An adolescent pack happens along, and one or two of the males will slide out of it and start courting the females of the transition pack - and eventually are accepted, and become Dad for the next generation. I don't disagree with that except for two characterizations. Dominance is certainly an aspect in family packs and is most easily seen sibling interaction though the fealty is, if my recollection is correct, dependent on the alphas (for lack of a better term) continuing to provide food or leadership in obtaining food. The leadership stems from experience but also adult size initially which is related to dominance. Also: The study that set the "common knowledge" of alphas et al may have been woefully badly structured for gathering information on family dynamics of a typical pack in the wild but I think does give insight on what happens when the packs of a given area are so badly predated on or otherwise stressed that the family structures cease to exist. That's atypical but I think misleading to characterize as unnatural and there are parallels to how humans behave when social structures are removed/weak and food uncertainty sets in. ...but I think my original point remains that "Loup" has more in common with humans than the critters that Renard was seeking him in, therefore should be able to impersonate one of them better/longer. |
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Post by maxptc on May 21, 2022 0:08:15 GMT
...but I think my original point remains that "Loup" has more in common with humans than the critters that Renard was seeking him in What makes you think Rey thinks Loup is in disguise? I figured they think he is just hiding out somewhere, and among the Forrest creatures makes sense since it's away from the people looking for him, humans. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 21, 2022 7:14:12 GMT
...but I think my original point remains that "Loup" has more in common with humans than the critters that Renard was seeking him in What makes you think Rey thinks Loup is in disguise? I figured they think he is just hiding out somewhere, and among the Forrest creatures makes sense since it's away from the people looking for him, humans. Disguised, shape-shifted or hiding, I don't think it'd be useful for him to be far from the humans. Long version: You've got a point because "Loup" could be otherwise concealed but let's look at those other options. I'm assuming his goals are 1. to spy out what the Court is up to and look for a way to throw a monkey-wrench into their plans and 2. monitor and possibly gain leverage over Antimony. Kat fits into both of those, btw. He could be hiding in the ether/another dimension which would take him pretty much anywhere he wanted to go except some of those odd spots but there are people who, if they chose to look, could see him. It might also be risky since the Court can extract and purify ether; exploring the sensitive areas might be dangerous. Being in the electrical lines or plumbing carries a similar risk but maybe less of one; in the wires he could directly go about anywhere he wanted but might go somewhere he doesn't want in the process. Being a weather phenomenon is more risky since the Court monitors that a bunch. If a cloud starts wandering around against the wind they'll notice. I don't think he's tricky enough to be an energy wave yet. He could be or be in an inanimate object of any sort which would be ideal for concealment but probably literally wouldn't get him anywhere; even if he chose something mobile that goes around the Court I don't think that there exists much that can go in and out of sensitive areas with one big possible exception: the head-crabbed robots. Being or being in a head-crabbed robot should be able to get him close to interesting things and in theory the head-crab should be non-etheric tech so that shouldn't cause any etheric problems, though there exists the possibility that they network those things in some way "Loup" might have trouble picking up on which might give him away unexpectedly. Being or being in/on a vehicle or tram or something might also be interesting in the initial phases of scoping the Court out but he'd have to transfer to something else to be someplace more useful anyway, so that's not a long-term option. There's animals, but the wild ones are very probably staying far from the humans which makes them not that useful unless they're made to act atypically. The lab animals are possibly in interesting places but are confined and maybe monitored, and he'd have to figure out a way to sneak in there in the first place which I think makes them even less useful. Then there's the people of the Court, which I guess includes the elves and New Persons, some of whom go interesting places and are close to interesting people. The last option I can think of is for "Loup" to just be himself, hiding in or behind stuff in conventional ways (for the most part). The Court is something of a surveillance state so at first blush that might not seem like a great option but I think it's actually not that bad. God-mode speed and stealth has gotta be pretty sweet and if he runs into trouble he can bullet-time. If discovered he can fight. This is also a head-on approach that I think would appeal to him. Everybody knows Renard still has the bodysnatching powers so that's ruled out. "Loup" can still shapeshift or change himself other ways, though I think we can leave out any strategy that would take a lot of patience or emotional maturity unless "Loup" takes another form that gives him some. It's tempting to discard possibilities that would require a lot of intelligence but I think we've seen examples where he does seem uncharacteristically insightful (talking to Antimony about Omega, that finger lock, probably others I'm forgetting) when he wants to be. Maybe it's a power, maybe it's the form he took. Either way, taking another form looks useful. He probably could navigate the enormous and maze-like infrastructure as something unconventional to get somewhere useful, risky as that could be. I think it's reasonable to think that "Loup" wouldn't want to be or be in anything the he might find undignified for a god or wolf unless it gets him something that he considers making it worth the indignity. IMHO the forest critters don't have enough strategic value to make it worth being them, being in them, or really even being near them. It would be really useful but I don't think "Loup" would think of or wish to be the tracking whatzits inside Johnathan's food, much as I would like to see that happen. Being Anthony Carver could be high-reward but would also be high-risk, as well as boring, and I'm unsure "Loup" is in a gambling mood at this point. Being Eglamore somehow would be hilarious but he's more order-carrying out than order-generating and he probably doesn't actually get into the best parts of the places he may be guarding. I'm actually unsure if "Loup" could transform into a duplicate of Jones but he could probably come close, but I'm not sure what that would do to him and he would be noticed quickly if he started acting out of character. I could go on, but the basic idea here is that being person/people or somehow hiding in/around people is more likely to get him stuff he wants. I wouldn't have expected him to go for an NP(C?) but it's been working well for him. Now here comes the really shaky part of the epileptic tree. I guess what they were expecting was for "Loup" to take a non-subtle approach. I think Renard plus the kids would've made some sort of contingency plan(s) around Antimony and Renard, probably leaving the rest of the Court to look after itself. Then some time passed and nothing happened; there was no news of him appearing anywhere or anything important blowing up. Gotta figure they would have had a brainstorming session either as a mass or in smaller groups. "Loup" left the Wood so he's probably there in the Court. He hasn't been seen so he's hiding at least in the broad sense of the word, and a disguise or shape-shift would be a particularly useful way to hide. I think that the Scooby gang would come up with about the same options for that hiding that I would have though they would have weighted them differently. I would have focused on the human personnel who have access to Court secrets and are close to Antimony by having Antimony give them the once-over with ethervision or have Kat build a scanning device, and to be fair maybe they did that and it just wasn't in the comic since they wouldn't find anything relevant. Same goes for monitoring the weather, traffic and surveillance systems for anomalies, making sensors if there aren't enough active where they need to be (though the Court was almost certainly already doing that to the extent that it was feasible and if the kids tried to elbow their way into the systems they would be stepping on toes and maybe making the situation worse through hacking stuff). "Loup" hiding in/around/near the woodland critters seems like a slim prospect compared to other possibilities but that's what was in the comic. We can infer from panel 1 that there was some discussion about this that wasn't in the comic and the kids now (maybe) think that's where "Loup" is hiding. A god-mode Renard would maybe have more to gain from hiding among the critters therefore I've been speculating that it was Renard's idea. Since they didn't do it sooner we can probably assume it either wasn't something that immediately occurred to him/whoever to try or it was initially discounted. Maybe just the passage of time has made the kids edgy and they were trying out a low-chance-of-success "pln" but this is not in the comic and they don't look especially stressed. The kids look pretty relaxed, actually. So I think something's odd. |
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Post by maxptc on May 21, 2022 13:05:53 GMT
Sorry friend, despite all your words I still think Forrest God hanging out amongst Forrest creatures is a perfectly resonable conclusion that any of them could have drawn at any point, particularly if they are trying to think of places to search. The fault I have with your line of reasoning is the goal Loup has and the information the gang has. We know those are the goals Loup has as the audience, but no one else knows. The gang thinks his goals are to get Reys power back and avoid Annie killing him. They might have also figured out his long term goal to destroy the whole place, but maybe they wrote the attack up to temper. The gang jumping to the conclusion that he must be shapshifting and that he would be better off hiding near the people looking for him seems unlikely given the information they have. Forgive me if I come off as rude, but your premise seems based on them having information and making assumptions I don't believe they have or would make. Also you forgot invisibility. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 21, 2022 18:18:03 GMT
Sorry friend, despite all your words I still think Forrest God hanging out amongst Forrest creatures is a perfectly resonable conclusion that any of them could have drawn at any point, particularly if they are trying to think of places to search... Also you forgot invisibility. Oh, I've left out several things I thought of and I'm fully aware that there are more that I haven't thought of. My point is that there are more rewarding and palatable options for "Loup" and that something in the way this is playing out doesn't sit well with me. I've put forth a possible explanation but not the only possible one. And it's only unreasonable to seek "Loup" among the Wood critters if you haven't exhausted other possibilities that appear to have better chances of success. About invisibility in particular, it would be good for moving around less secure areas provided that the Court sensors can't pick up on it but I'm not sure about the more secure areas. If it's just simple invisibility that might have been a contingency that the Court has already conceived of and prepared for. Assuming it worked and he was successful at doing something there should, I'd think, be evidence of it. I've already addressed, though briefly, more complex versions of being invisible (being in the ether or another dimension) previously. They might have also figured out his long term goal to destroy the whole place, but maybe they wrote the attack up to temper. The gang jumping to the conclusion that he must be shapshifting and that he would be better off hiding near the people looking for him seems unlikely given the information they have. That isn't what I said. I reeled off a whole bunch of possibilities other than shapeshifting and weighed risks and downsides vs. potential rewards; I believe shapeshifting or otherwise hiding in/around people is the biggest possibility so investigating that angle should have been a priority. They may have done something that hasn't been shown in the comic (yet). Also I don't think that his goal is to destroy the entire place, just mess up the Court's plans and their plans regarding Antimony in particular. Antimony's house and all her stuff is in the Court, she'd be annoyed if it got blown up. He might blow up the place if particularly triggered, though, which is why I raised an eyebrow at one of the things Renard said to him while goading him. The fault I have with your line of reasoning is the goal Loup has and the information the gang has. We know those are the goals Loup has as the audience, but no one else knows. The gang thinks his goals are to get Reys power back and avoid Annie killing him... Forgive me if I come off as rude, but your premise seems based on them having information and making assumptions I don't believe they have or would make. No problem, the forum is for discussing the comic after all and we have to take the risk of coming off as rude once in a while in order for the conversation to continue. Regarding the assumptions I've advanced, I think they're reasonable though it doesn't necessarily follow that the characters in the comic reached the same ones or (like I said in my previous post) if they have that they've assigned different levels of importance than I did to the possible motives "Loup" has. Even if they think hiding is in itself the goal it doesn't follow that he'd just hide forever. Sooner or later he'll do something. I think it's extremely unlikely that Antimony doesn't know that "Loup" is interested in her given their past interactions. Maybe she's in denial for some reason, maybe other characters talked her out of that notion since they weren't privy to those interactions, but that wasn't in the comic. That he hasn't appeared near her should give them cause to start thinking about other things in the Court that he might be interested in. [edit] Maybe the error I'm making is thinking that Antimony's done the analysis of "Loup's" possible motives at all. I have trouble wrapping my head around this possibility given what's happened and the time that's lapsed where she could ruminate on things, but perhaps this is a case of her not taking the creature(s) of the Wood seriously, as Eglamore once chided her for. If she's just thinking that with Kat's help she can safely trap "Loup" (apes together strong) and force him to have a conversation in which she solves everything with words, it might explain how lightly the kids seem to be taking the whole "trap forest wolf god with green arrows" thing. I find it tough to believe that, though, given what happened to Shell... [/edit] |
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Post by maxptc on May 21, 2022 19:01:35 GMT
Sorry friend, despite all your words I still think Forrest God hanging out amongst Forrest creatures is a perfectly resonable conclusion that any of them could have drawn at any point, particularly if they are trying to think of places to search... Also you forgot invisibility. Oh, I've left out several things I thought of and I'm fully aware that there are more that I haven't thought of. My point is that there are more rewarding and palatable options for "Loup" and that something in the way this is playing out doesn't sit well with me. I've put forth a possible explanation but not the only possible one. And it's only unreasonable to seek "Loup" among the Wood critters if you haven't exhausted other possibilities that appear to have better chances of success. About invisibility in particular, it would be good for moving around less secure areas provided that the Court sensors can't pick up on it but I'm not sure about the more secure areas. If it's just simple invisibility that might have been a contingency that the Court has already conceived of and prepared for. Assuming it worked and he was successful at doing something there should, I'd think, be evidence of it. I've already addressed, though briefly, more complex versions of being invisible (being in the ether or another dimension) previously. They might have also figured out his long term goal to destroy the whole place, but maybe they wrote the attack up to temper. The gang jumping to the conclusion that he must be shapshifting and that he would be better off hiding near the people looking for him seems unlikely given the information they have. That isn't what I said. I reeled off a whole bunch of possibilities other than shapeshifting and weighed risks and downsides vs. potential rewards; I believe shapeshifting or otherwise hiding in/around people is the biggest possibility so investigating that angle should have been a priority. They may have done something that hasn't been shown in the comic (yet). Also I don't think that his goal is to destroy the entire place, just mess up the Court's plans and their plans regarding Antimony in particular. Antimony's house and all her stuff is in the Court, she'd be annoyed if it got blown up. He might blow up the place if particularly triggered, though, which is why I raised an eyebrow at one of the things Renard said to him while goading him. The fault I have with your line of reasoning is the goal Loup has and the information the gang has. We know those are the goals Loup has as the audience, but no one else knows. The gang thinks his goals are to get Reys power back and avoid Annie killing him... Forgive me if I come off as rude, but your premise seems based on them having information and making assumptions I don't believe they have or would make. No problem, the forum is for discussing the comic after all and we have to take the risk of coming off as rude once in a while in order for the conversation to continue. Regarding the assumptions I've advanced, I think they're reasonable though it doesn't necessarily follow that the characters in the comic reached the same ones or (like I said in my previous post) if they have that they've assigned different levels of importance than I did to the possible motives "Loup" has. Even if they think hiding is in itself the goal it doesn't follow that he'd just hide forever. Sooner or later he'll do something. I think it's extremely unlikely that Antimony doesn't know that "Loup" is interested in her given their past interactions. Maybe she's in denial for some reason, maybe other characters talked her out of that notion since they weren't privy to those interactions, but that wasn't in the comic. That he hasn't appeared near her should give them cause to start thinking about other things in the Court that he might be interested in. I think, and I base this on Reys taunting, they figured Loup was hiding and doing nothing. Since he hadn't appeared and attacked Rey, which is what they figured would happen, they decided that he might be hiding. If he is hiding it's probably away from the Court, since that's where the people he would be hiding from are. Since they have Jerrek with them and that's the reason they found Loup, it follows that this isn't a late point in the search, but I recognize that's speculation as well. Prehaps the reason it's not sitting well is that you know Loup isn't in fact hiding here, and it's to easy of an answer. A "well we should check the most obvious place" plan, that ends up being right despite logically being to obvious. If this is the first place they checked, they might have expected it to be a bust, a "well we can put a check mark next to that location" afternoon, that ended up being "right" because the search is rigged. That may even be why Rey is already suspicious. |
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