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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 13, 2022 7:04:23 GMT
Some arrows! Is this the end of "Loup" the forest god? Tune in next week... Spoiler: No it is not.
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Post by blahzor on May 13, 2022 7:14:38 GMT
guess she used her tech to cover up the stuff she used to make the arrows
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 13, 2022 7:32:11 GMT
Maybe Kat just summoned the arrow barrage to a previously-agreed point. That'd give the target less chance to detect the trap.
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Post by bicarbonat on May 13, 2022 8:03:30 GMT
I wonder if this is going to be a smooth kayfabe on Loup's part, like Coyote did when he disguised his tongue in his image; or
If he accidentally exacerbates something that he's already encountered by "playing" Jerrek – sending Himself, proper, to be pierced by those arrows, while the more compromisable self is left.
The body you're in influences the way you think. And if the body that's most antagonistic is even a little offline, he's going to have to log even more time as Jerrek... Thinking Jerrek thoughts, doing the things that Jellicles Jerreks do.
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Post by madjack on May 13, 2022 8:12:21 GMT
That trap looks downright cruel.
This page feels like confirmation that they don't know Jerrek is Loup, as well. Partly because the trap was sprung on the other Loup, partly because Kat is taking doing so seriously, and she's not really a duplicitous character.
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Post by blahzor on May 13, 2022 9:22:12 GMT
not like Loup can feel pain, was still expecting the inhibitor eye tho
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Post by theonethatgotaway on May 13, 2022 9:58:02 GMT
That trap looks downright cruel. It looks absolutely barbaric, what with the double barbs, and those arrows probably using the same tech as what trapped the elf at the bottom of the ravine. |
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Post by pyradonis on May 13, 2022 10:33:27 GMT
That trap looks downright cruel. It looks absolutely barbaric, what with the double barbs, and those arrows probably using the same tech as what trapped the elf at the bottom of the ravine. Indeed, and not to forget the binding program was painful for the bound one even before it was implemented on a barrage of soul-trapping double barbed arrows.  |
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Post by Georgie L on May 13, 2022 11:22:37 GMT
The question is, if it does work, what happens to Jerrek?
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Post by maxptc on May 13, 2022 13:26:57 GMT
Unless I'm mistaken, bobby traps are illegal in most self defense settings, and are a war crime in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Since this is kinda of a war between the Forrest and Court, Kat is now arguably a war criminal. Not that it's super relevant cause the Court is outside the laws of other nations. Still Kat has very quickly become one of the most morally ambiguous characters.
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Post by ctso74 on May 13, 2022 13:31:02 GMT
When post-captured Loup spawns a number of illusionary rings, that make the Sonic Ring Noise when touched, the group realizes Kat has gone to far.
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Post by madjack on May 13, 2022 13:53:42 GMT
Unless I'm mistaken, bobby traps are illegal in most self defense settings, and are a war crime in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Since this is kinda of a war between the Forrest and Court, Kat is now arguably a war criminal. Not that it's super relevant cause the Court is outside the laws of other nations. Still Kat has very quickly become one of the most morally ambiguous characters. This is the Kat who's on the good path too. Zimmy was right to be afraid. |
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Post by netherdan on May 13, 2022 14:12:08 GMT
Will Jerrek be alright tho? The green arrow this was probably based on is a nasty and cruel trap that rips the fabric of the ether...
Maybe he thought the trap was the "wee tree manipulation rod thing" and not the "cursed green arrow of doom"
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Post by Gemminie on May 13, 2022 14:13:07 GMT
As Loup reaches what I assume is a predetermined location, Kat pushes a button on her invisible computer screen and activates what can only be called a snare. With "ZZZ" sounds (or I suppose they might be "NNN" sounds, as they're at an angle), small rings of green light appear on the ground, scattered throughout the area that Loup is in as he runs by. Then, with a "ZZAKK" sound effect, bright green arrows similar to those in the title image shoot up out of the ground, impaling Loup multiple times. I see 6 of them that unquestionably pierce him and a seventh that might be a hit or a miss.
Loup's reaction to seeing the green rings on the ground is hard to read; it may be surprise (or feigned surprise), I guess, but I'm not sure. He looks like being impaled is painful, but he might have been anticipating it, and this might not hurt him at all, who knows? What we don't know his exactly how much of this was talked about where Loup could hear. In the previous chapter we were very much privy to Loup's thoughts as he tried to get information out of Annie and dug through Coyote's knowledge to answer her questions, but here we aren't seeing his point of view at all. This, of course, creates tension for us readers: how much did Loup know beforehand about what was going to happen? It seems likely that he knew Renard was going to lead him into some kind of trap, so he seems to have gone along with that, partly to see what kind of trap they thought would work on him and partly to build trust for Jerrek.
But how much did he know about the type of trap they were going to use? That depends on how much Kat described about the trap she'd designed where Loup could hear (and as we've seen, he can listen in from pretty far away). But still, Kat wouldn't necessarily have included all the technical details when talking to Annie, knowing that she wouldn't understand many of them. And it really looks like the trap is based on the technology (or whatever it is) behind Diego's arrow, and I say that on the Very Scientific basis that both involve green light. But that is technology that it seems as if Kat herself doesn't really fully understand; she's been reverse-engineering a lot of what she's done with it. So what Loup may have heard might not have fully prepared him for this.
Or he might have known exactly what was going to happen. Once Kat revealed that it had to do with the arrow, Coyote's knowledge might have told Loup about the device that held Jeanne's ghost captive and what else someone might be able to do with the knowledge that went into it. Something we're not seeing is Jerrek's reaction – is this going to make his ear pop out, or at least make him gasp in surprise/pain? Will this make anyone suspicious?
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Post by pyradonis on May 13, 2022 15:07:17 GMT
The question is, if it does work, what happens to Jerrek? If Loup did his homework, the wolf form we see is just a tiny piece that he separated from himself, and his Jerrek form is unaffected when it is captured. It depends on how much he knew about the kind of snare to be used beforehand. And on how much he understood about it's function, but like Gemminie mentioned, if he knows what to look for, Coyote's knowledge will give him the understanding needed. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on May 13, 2022 15:49:30 GMT
Unless I'm mistaken, bobby traps are illegal in most self defense settings, and are a war crime in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Since this is kinda of a war between the Forrest and Court, Kat is now arguably a war criminal. Not that it's super relevant cause the Court is outside the laws of other nations. Still Kat has very quickly become one of the most morally ambiguous characters. Booby traps are traps that are sprung automatically, triggered by proximity to, or specific actions by, a victim. They are indiscriminate, and do not differentiate between friend, foe, or innocent bystander. This is a trap sprung by Kat, not by Loup. Which just makes it a trap. And since they are literally at war with Loup, this seems fair game. If perhaps a bit gruesome. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on May 13, 2022 15:55:04 GMT
That trap looks downright cruel. This page feels like confirmation that they don't know Jerrek is Loup, as well. Partly because the trap was sprung on the other Loup, partly because Kat is taking doing so seriously, and she's not really a duplicitous character. It's still possible that Annie suspects, even if she hasn't told Kat or the others ("to fool your enemies, first fool your friends"). Trap "Loup" and see how Jerrek reacts. If Jerrek keeps his cool... well, they still have a Loup trapped. Assuming that Loup doesn't pull a "sike! just kidding!" |
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Post by maxptc on May 13, 2022 16:19:38 GMT
Unless I'm mistaken, bobby traps are illegal in most self defense settings, and are a war crime in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Since this is kinda of a war between the Forrest and Court, Kat is now arguably a war criminal. Not that it's super relevant cause the Court is outside the laws of other nations. Still Kat has very quickly become one of the most morally ambiguous characters. Booby traps are traps that are sprung automatically, triggered by proximity to, or specific actions by, a victim. They are indiscriminate, and do not differentiate between friend, foe, or innocent bystander. This is a trap sprung by Kat, not by Loup. Which just makes it a trap. And since they are literally at war with Loup, this seems fair game. If perhaps a bit gruesome. Not true, if you lure or suspect a specific person will come into a situation and have a spike trap waiting with a switch to be triggered manually, that's still a bobby trap. This concept is featured heavily in the Home Alone movies. War and violence is always gruesome, and because of the fantasy setting morality and effective tactics are gonna be different, but this is very unethical by our societies standards. |
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Post by Corvo on May 13, 2022 16:30:09 GMT
Arbiter Saslamel ain't gonna be happy with all the paperwork.
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Post by drmemory on May 13, 2022 17:58:11 GMT
I can't wait to see what Loup does after he gets control of the arrow!
The bummer is, it'll be Kat that gets in trouble with Arbiter Saslamel, because she's the one that signed the contract.
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Post by Sky Schemer on May 13, 2022 18:28:16 GMT
Not true, if you lure or suspect a specific person will come into a situation and have a spike trap waiting with a switch to be triggered manually, that's still a bobby trap. This concept is featured heavily in the Home Alone movies. War and violence is always gruesome, and because of the fantasy setting morality and effective tactics are gonna be different, but this is very unethical by our societies standards. This is not the traditional definition of a mine: or a booby trap: Loup's actions are not triggering the trap: it is Kat who is pushing the button, so to speak. This is not a trap that works on its own. Loup could pass over this area all day without it triggering. It is, quite simply, an ambush. |
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Post by warrl on May 13, 2022 18:32:38 GMT
Unless I'm mistaken, bobby traps are illegal in most self defense settings, and are a war crime in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Since this is kinda of a war between the Forrest and Court, Kat is now arguably a war criminal. Not that it's super relevant cause the Court is outside the laws of other nations. Still Kat has very quickly become one of the most morally ambiguous characters. Booby traps are illegal in self-defense situations, at least in the US. In warfare, it's a bit more complex - land mines (as I understand things, which may be wholly or partially incorrect) ARE legal, but after the war are supposed to be cleaned up promptly and posted with warning signs until cleaned up. (The definition of "promptly" is rather vague - after the Falklands war, one beach remained deadly - for humans, not for penguins - for more than a decade.) However, that isn't relevant to the current situation for one very simple reason: this isn't a booby trap. If Loup had hit a tripwire or something and that triggered it, that would be a booby trap. Instead, it was clearly triggered by the same side that set it up - same as an infantryman firing a rifle. |
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Post by pyradonis on May 13, 2022 19:35:08 GMT
Booby traps are traps that are sprung automatically, triggered by proximity to, or specific actions by, a victim. They are indiscriminate, and do not differentiate between friend, foe, or innocent bystander. This is a trap sprung by Kat, not by Loup. Which just makes it a trap. And since they are literally at war with Loup, this seems fair game. If perhaps a bit gruesome. Not true, if you lure or suspect a specific person will come into a situation and have a spike trap waiting with a switch to be triggered manually, that's still a bobby trap. This concept is featured heavily in the Home Alone movies. War and violence is always gruesome, and because of the fantasy setting morality and effective tactics are gonna be different, but this is very unethical by our societies standards. When in doubt they can always say they merely used it to trap an animal, not against a human. But I agree with the others who said that this is not a booby trap anyway.
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Post by rabbit on May 13, 2022 20:13:24 GMT
The arrow snare does seem cruel, but in the context of an unpredictable and violent god who has already shown a willingness to destroy a lot of the landscape along with many robot bodies, it seems somewhat understandable. And while we have no evidence that Loup has caused the death of anyone so far, he has certainly put a lot of folks in harm's way.
I would expect the intent is to hold him long enough to question him or reason/bargain with him; I don't see Annie or Kat as inherently cruel.
I am really interested in the interaction of Jerrek with the rest of the group after this development - the influence of the Jerrek persona on Loup's usual impetuousness has been interesting. Will Jerrek act with more restraint and thoughtfulness, or is he just part of a counter-plan of Loup's?
You might say I'm...
...on pins and needles with anticipation.
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Post by ophidiophile on May 13, 2022 21:17:19 GMT
The question is, if it does work, what happens to Jerrek? He switches his crush from Annie to Kat. |
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Post by maxptc on May 13, 2022 23:29:22 GMT
"A booby trap is a device or setup that is intended to kill, harm, or surprise a human being or an animal. It is triggered by the presence or actions of the victim and sometimes has some form of bait designed to lure the victim towards it."- Wikipedia
I'm not an expert at law or war or anything like that, but I don't think being unmanned is the definitive characteristic of a bobby trap. I'm also mot very invested in arguing about it, Kat committed a war crime but its okay if you disagree with me.
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Post by warrl on May 14, 2022 1:19:16 GMT
"A booby trap is a device or setup that is intended to kill, harm, or surprise a human being or an animal. It is triggered by the presence or actions of the victim and sometimes has some form of bait designed to lure the victim towards it."- Wikipedia I'm not an expert at law or war or anything like that, but I don't think being unmanned is the definitive characteristic of a bobby trap. From your Wikipedia quote: "It is triggered by the presence or actions of the victim" This trap was triggered by Kat pushing a button. Kat is not the victim of the trap. As for war crimes: 164 nations have signed on to a treaty banning land mines - but not necessarily all forms of booby trap - in warfare. There are somewhere between 193 and 210 nations depending on how and whom you count, so at least 29 nations have NOT signed that treaty - including China, Russia, and the US. |
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Post by maxptc on May 14, 2022 1:34:34 GMT
"A booby trap is a device or setup that is intended to kill, harm, or surprise a human being or an animal. It is triggered by the presence or actions of the victim and sometimes has some form of bait designed to lure the victim towards it."- Wikipedia I'm not an expert at law or war or anything like that, but I don't think being unmanned is the definitive characteristic of a bobby trap. From your Wikipedia quote: "It is triggered by the presence or actions of the victim" This trap was triggered by Kat pushing a button. Kat is not the victim of the trap. As for war crimes: 164 nations have signed on to a treaty banning land mines - but not necessarily all forms of booby trap - in warfare. There are somewhere between 193 and 210 nations depending on how and whom you count, so at least 29 nations have NOT signed that treaty - including China, Russia, and the US. But it is triggered by the presence of Loup, his entering the area is why it was triggered. I'm willing to accept I could be mistaken about that interpretation, maybe it only means the direct actions or presence, and not that the presence or actions caused someone to activate a trap. Even in that case, I'd still say that using this technology to trap Loup is essentially the same thing the Court did, if to a more deserving victim. Of course, i dont think this is really working, I still believe Loup is control of this situation because none of them suspect he is Jerrek. |
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Post by blahzor on May 14, 2022 1:47:50 GMT
I can't wait to see what Loup does after he gets control of the arrow! The bummer is, it'll be Kat that gets in trouble with Arbiter Saslamel, because she's the one that signed the contract.
okay i'm looking up what you did this time and it's...captured a god without using a master ball? that's a paddling |
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Post by drmemory on May 14, 2022 5:01:25 GMT
Here's a thought. Loup has been using a lot more of Coyote's powers lately. We know he doesn't think predicting the future is a big deal. reference So it's possible he's doing what the court wants to do - examining what is about to happen, and adjusting if he doesn't like the outcome.
This could, possibly, be far worse than merely trying to capture a god with said god hiding on your team!
Of course, we haven't really seen him do anything THAT sneaky yet. But he could.
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