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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 13, 2022 7:04:12 GMT
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Post by outofpseudonyms on Apr 13, 2022 7:09:27 GMT
I'm calling it now. The tooth will make him mortal. At that point, he is effectively dead because he will eventually die. Bible logic.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 13, 2022 7:33:16 GMT
Pretty sure The Tooth could cut Ysengrin from "Loup" so why not separate the Jerrek from the "Jerroux" while we're at it?
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Post by davidm on Apr 13, 2022 7:56:41 GMT
I'm calling it now. The tooth will make him mortal. At that point, he is effectively dead because he will eventually die. Bible logic. I am guessing something else. Early in the story after Annie fell off bridge we had the 2 fairies who wanted to "pass the test", Annie to kill them so they could become human. Annie refused. Then Y killed the fairies. Loup will supposedly agree with Coyote on what a great plan coyote has. Then Loup will die. Loup will be killed by Annie and tooth sword. I am guessing full circle to where Loup/Y/Coyote asks Annie to kill him so he can be reborn as human or other species just like fairies and Annie this time agrees. (Annie now knows how fairy death allowed Red and Blue humans to live). Given a choice, New Persons seem to have edge over humans who grow old and frail. Mort also had unlimited lifespan till he decided to end it. As far as biblical logic goes, possible "death" there did not mean becoming mortal but literally dying and the catch is instead that the word "day" may refer to much more than a 24 hour day... its common on even english for day to refer to things like 5: a specified time or period : AGE in grandfather's day —often used in plural the old days the days of sailing ships In biblical it is claimed that to "God", "A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by," "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." Entities like Coyote and Jones may similarly have a much different perspective on time than humans like Annie.... a vast number of years may flow by like a 24 hour day does for us, and at same time may be ability to analyse each minute of each day so closely that it is like years of activity in just a single 24 hour day. |
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Post by csj on Apr 13, 2022 8:36:46 GMT
loup must die because the only way to defy the omega device is to destroy the constants it uses to run its logic
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Post by ohthatone on Apr 13, 2022 11:27:23 GMT
loup must die because the only way to defy the omega device is to destroy the constants it uses to run its logic I can see how Loup would agree to this plan and willingly die. But did omega already predict it? |
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Post by arf on Apr 13, 2022 11:32:14 GMT
Is Annie's secret crush... Ysengrin!?
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Post by Georgie L on Apr 13, 2022 12:37:27 GMT
I also am still very sure that Annie is oblivious to the way he's reacting, she's been shown before to be useless at recognising when people are acting that way towards her
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Post by ctso74 on Apr 13, 2022 13:34:19 GMT
As smooth as broken glass and gravel. I'm not sure if Annie knows he's Loup, but I'm pretty sure she wouldn't register his awkward behavior.
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Post by bicarbonat on Apr 13, 2022 14:43:39 GMT
What if we ended up with a revised version of what happened between Surma and Renard:
Surma (Annie) isn't in love with Renard (Loup/Jerrek), but is made aware of his danger and his love for her > Leverages that > he forsakes his power > Sadness abounds
In a nice reversal, Loup has already assumed a body – the task is to get him back to his factory settings.
Of course, Annie is Annie – I see her appeal to Jerrek/Loup being more altruistic than her mother's Court-appointed ploy, but just as effective.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Apr 13, 2022 16:05:31 GMT
loup must die because the only way to defy the omega device is to destroy the constants it uses to run its logic I can see how Loup would agree to this plan and willingly die. But did omega already predict it? There's a logic trap here somewhere. Let's see if I can find it. Because if Loup knows that Omega knows Loup's plan to defy Omega (by dying), then the only way for Loup to defy Omega would be to not die. But if Omega knows that Loup knows that Omega knows... |
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Post by maxptc on Apr 13, 2022 16:12:53 GMT
Is Annie's secret crush... Ysengrin!? I dunno if it fits, only because of how embarrassed the two Annie were when bringing it up. If it was Ysengrin, I'd expected more sadness, what with him just having died/turned into Loup. |
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 13, 2022 19:18:13 GMT
Is Annie's secret crush... Ysengrin!? Most certainly not. Like maxptc said, someone whose crush has recently died does not act like that. Furthermore she had no problem saying out loud that she loved Ysengrin, another sign that she feels the platonic love one has for a friend and mentor towards Ysengrin and not a crush on him. |
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Post by blazingstar on Apr 13, 2022 20:47:50 GMT
Pretty sure The Tooth could cut Ysengrin from "Loup" so why not separate the Jerrek from the "Jerroux" while we're at it? Because there is no Jerrek, and there never was. Jerrek wasn't actually a robot New Person taken over by Loup; Jerrek is a pseudonym used by Loup after he created this entire body himself. He never went through Kat's transfer process. He's just some dude who walked into their camp. I guess they haven't yet done a head count to realize that they have one extra. |
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Post by Isildur on Apr 13, 2022 21:42:24 GMT
I'm calling it now. The tooth will make him mortal. At that point, he is effectively dead because he will eventually die. Bible logic. I am guessing something else. Early in the story after Annie fell off bridge we had the 2 fairies who wanted to "pass the test", Annie to kill them so they could become human. Annie refused. Then Y killed the fairies. Loup will supposedly agree with Coyote on what a great plan coyote has. Then Loup will die. Loup will be killed by Annie and tooth sword. I am guessing full circle to where Loup/Y/Coyote asks Annie to kill him so he can be reborn as human or other species just like fairies and Annie this time agrees. (Annie now knows how fairy death allowed Red and Blue humans to live). How would that work for Loup as a merged being, though? For the animals and fairies, the totems must be passed to the Court. But Coyote's and Ysengrin's separate, giant totems still exist (which has always been puzzling to me, if Loup is a living mix). It is interesting that Coyote's and Ysengrin's totems are already external now ( like those of the "hollow fairies") rather than like the internal ones of the animals, which require extraction. Unless those were not soul totems as I'm assuming, but something else. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 13, 2022 22:51:55 GMT
Pretty sure The Tooth could cut Ysengrin from "Loup" so why not separate the Jerrek from the "Jerroux" while we're at it? Because there is no Jerrek, and there never was. Jerrek wasn't actually a robot New Person taken over by Loup; Jerrek is a pseudonym used by Loup after he created this entire body himself. He never went through Kat's transfer process. Panel 2 shows a Jerrek and a "Loup" in conflict and even if that's completely figurative with god-tier power I suspect that's enough provided Antimony can get into his head and seizes on the right moment. I'm not sure what Jerrek would be if he was cut free from "Loup" though, maybe human, maybe a completely new sort of being. I guess they haven't yet done a head count to realize that they have one extra. In the past they've seemed to operate as if deceit is an alien concept; they're bad at it from human standards and aside from the odd robot acting weird they pretty much do what they're programmed to do. New New Persons keep getting grown and released into the wild as their processors get recovered so it's understandable that he's gotten away with it. It probably never occurred to any robots that they'd even need a headcount though Kat's computer should have some data they could construct one from if they think of it, and if the old models never leave the conversion therapy room one or more might have a de facto list in memory. |
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Post by Runningflame on Apr 13, 2022 23:08:44 GMT
Jerrek, I don't know much about romance, but I don't think that is how you hold hands with a girl.
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Post by blahzor on Apr 14, 2022 4:40:17 GMT
Is Annie's secret crush... Ysengrin!? I dunno if it fits, only because of how embarrassed the two Annie were when bringing it up. If it was Ysengrin, I'd expected more sadness, what with him just having died/turned into Loup. It has to be someone embarrassing like haircut bot |
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Post by csj on Apr 14, 2022 10:13:16 GMT
I can see how Loup would agree to this plan and willingly die. But did omega already predict it? There's a logic trap here somewhere. Let's see if I can find it. Because if Loup knows that Omega knows Loup's plan to defy Omega (by dying), then the only way for Loup to defy Omega would be to not die. But if Omega knows that Loup knows that Omega knows... a computer only predicts the problems asked of it |
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 14, 2022 10:44:18 GMT
Anyway, panel 2 looks like one hell of a headache.
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Post by migrantworker on Apr 14, 2022 10:45:25 GMT
Jerrek, I don't know much about romance, but I don't think that is how you hold hands with a girl. Yeah it's not exactly smooth, but it appears to have got the job done, and amicably as well. Sometimes 'good enough' is exactly that...  |
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Post by bedinsis on Apr 14, 2022 11:24:28 GMT
Whoa, those hands in panel 4 are big. Must be a perspective thing.
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Post by saardvark on Apr 14, 2022 14:34:20 GMT
Jerrek, I don't know much about romance, but I don't think that is how you hold hands with a girl. Yeah it's not exactly smooth, but it appears to have got the job done, and amicably as well. Sometimes 'good enough' is exactly that...  sometimes clumsy and uncertain is endearing in its own way..... |
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Post by Gemminie on Apr 14, 2022 16:03:08 GMT
Well, the Ysengrin part of Loup is missing the old times when he was friends with Annie, but it looks like Kat's finishing up, so this scene's going to end. Inwardly, Loup still looks insane and raging, but outwardly, his Jerrek persona just looks like he's having a startling realization. He reminds himself not to lose sight of his goal. But what is that goal? I've been assuming that it's to get closer to Annie so as to find the whereabouts of the tooth/dagger, or to get closer to Omega, or at least to find out why Coyote wants him to die. Becoming closer to Annie would be a probable way to do that.
He very nervously holds Annie's hand, and Annie doesn't pull away or anything. To her he probably just looks like an awkward New Person unclear on social conventions. He seems to want to make sure he and Annie can talk again later. Annie's willing to do that. Jerrek's coming across as awkward, with a crush on Annie, but principled, serious, and a deep thinker. If Annie suspects he's Loup at all, she's hiding it very well. But we know from the past that Annie's incredibly good at hiding her feelings when she wants to. However, we also know that she's terrible at lying. So I'm still not sure whether she knows anything or not.
Where's Renard? Still watching Kat's demo? Or up to something else? Annie and Renard could have been quietly communicating, sub rosa, this entire time. Or not. The only thing I can guarantee is that there will be surprises. I don't know for whom, though, other than for us.
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Post by warrl on Apr 14, 2022 16:27:15 GMT
sometimes clumsy and uncertain is endearing in its own way..... Which is a good thing for pretty much all 12-15-year-olds. |
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Post by Runningflame on Apr 16, 2022 2:44:27 GMT
Yeah it's not exactly smooth, but it appears to have got the job done, and amicably as well. Sometimes 'good enough' is exactly that... sometimes clumsy and uncertain is endearing in its own way..... sometimes clumsy and uncertain is endearing in its own way..... Which is a good thing for pretty much all 12-15-year-olds. And hopefully some of us older people too! |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 16, 2022 7:48:59 GMT
I think everyone had clumsy ideas of romance when they were younger. |
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