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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 26, 2022 17:07:37 GMT
Still not sure what happens if you try cutting hair off a shapeshifted forest wolf-god thing. (Remember: Red was amazed that she could "cut stuff off" her body. Coyote could have found a work-around or just not care but "Loup" isn't at this moment Coyote.) Here's hoping that Antimony and Renard aren't talking to each other through the familiar link saying, "Hey, wouldn't that Jerrek guy have been the last person to see Piter alive?" |
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Post by hannibalbarca on Feb 26, 2022 18:24:21 GMT
wildspec : that whole scene was completely under control, lana knew exactly what was going on, the question mark was a red herring, and they needed people for "the demo". that was lana's attempt at corralling volunteers. it will be confirmed next page as lana rages "well WERE here and we could have brought in more people but jerrek ruined everything !"
..... i am willing to admit the chances are low...
also, the loup/jerrek panel have his missing tooth and his hair swoop fitting perfectly. like that tooth loup was missing is still somewhere as a potential within the individual of jerrek, or some other philosophical shtuff about believing in yourself (and losing in yourself). most likely a composition choice, but it looks nice.
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Post by drmemory on Feb 27, 2022 7:30:33 GMT
So I got to thinking about this whole apparent "form dictates thoughts" or maybe "form dictates behavior" thing. We've only seen Loup as a slightly scruffy wolf or wolf/coyote hybrid, and now a New Person. I suppose he never took a Ysengrin, Master of Gardening form because he doesn't like that part of himself, whereas he's still impressed with and jealous of Coyote. I wonder if this is his first experience with another form? He sort of implied that it is when he said "Coyote used to do this, I'll try it!" (more or less). It may be that he's deeper in the role than Coyote would have been simply because it's his first time doing it. Just an observation; I have no real point, just thinking about the form/mind thing. We've seen Renard only as a little stuffed animal (specifically a stuffed wolf that Surma made), a little humanoid stuffed toy, and a wolf. I guess we also saw him as a larger stuffed humanoid trying to be sexy, assuming that page was canon? Anyway. I've always assumed he could be a wolf when he wanted because the toy is a wolf, but that doesn't explain the humanoid form. If he can shape himself more or less as he likes, why have we never seen him make himself into a fox? It isn't conversation of mass - all three of his common forms are different sizes and the default stuffed wolf is the smallest by far! As for the effect on his mind, Kat once said he seemed a lot nicer as a wolf, and indeed we see him holding that form almost always these days.
Coyote, of course, is totally fluid, both in and out of the ether. He most commonly looks coyote-like or dead-coyote-like, though quite distorted. But based on his stories, he isn't limited to that at all - he can be whatever he wants to. Dead goose, the moon, giant coyote, wife of dead goose... whatever pleases him in the moment. I suspect that his forms don't affect his mind as much, just because his mind is also totally fluid. He probably needs to make himself forget he's Coyote to really enjoy the experience.
Pretty sure Loup hasn't done that - we see him pop up and he's still thinking of killing them all, which isn't in character for a NP ex-pipe inspector. But perhaps he's losing lock, unused to dealing with his new form.
Random thoughts for a Saturday night.  |
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Post by speedwell on Feb 27, 2022 21:10:48 GMT
If he can shape himself more or less as he likes, why have we never seen him make himself into a fox? His actual fox body is still in stasis in the Forest. He was jumping from body to body until he was eventually imprisoned in Sivo's form while the Court was studying him. Then he was essentially trapped in Antimony's wolf toy. (Why a wolf? Because in alchemical lore, the element antimony is often referred to as the Wolf.) Having become accustomed to existing in that form, and recognising the huge advantage of shapeshifting that occupying an inanimate doll afforded him, as well as out of love and loyalty to Annie, it is clearly his choice to remain in wolf form. All of his forms to which he shapeshifts are variations on wolf form, we observe. In order to appear as a fox again, he would need to take his own body again or that of another fox-shaped being or object. Frankly, I understand his reluctance to go back to his own body. He must be able to do so only by occupying it by means of Coyote's "gift". That means his wolf body would "die" (and is that even meaningful in the context of it not only never having been alive, but of it being under a completely different contract of ownership?). Furthermore, if Renard occupied his own body and then wished to occupy a different body, his own body would then die. Rather horrifying when you realise it, and a potential way Renard might be tricked into returning the gift to Coyote, or Loup, or whoever it is at that time. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Feb 27, 2022 22:13:10 GMT
Are we in the present or the past right now? I've kinda lost track Present, his hair is tied back. Oh wow, I didn't even notice the hair change. Now I need to reread this chapter cuz I thought this whole thing was a flashback |
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Post by Per on Feb 28, 2022 0:49:33 GMT
Furthermore, if Renard occupied his own body and then wished to occupy a different body, his own body would then die. It's been shown he can return to his own body. |
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Post by drmemory on Feb 28, 2022 1:43:10 GMT
If he can shape himself more or less as he likes, why have we never seen him make himself into a fox? His actual fox body is still in stasis in the Forest. He was jumping from body to body until he was eventually imprisoned in Sivo's form while the Court was studying him. Then he was essentially trapped in Antimony's wolf toy. (Why a wolf? Because in alchemical lore, the element antimony is often referred to as the Wolf.) Having become accustomed to existing in that form, and recognising the huge advantage of shapeshifting that occupying an inanimate doll afforded him, as well as out of love and loyalty to Annie, it is clearly his choice to remain in wolf form. All of his forms to which he shapeshifts are variations on wolf form, we observe. In order to appear as a fox again, he would need to take his own body again or that of another fox-shaped being or object. Frankly, I understand his reluctance to go back to his own body. He must be able to do so only by occupying it by means of Coyote's "gift". That means his wolf body would "die" (and is that even meaningful in the context of it not only never have been alive, but of it being under a completely different contract of ownership?). Furthermore, if Renard occupied his own body and then wished to occupy a different body, his own body would then die. Rather horrifying when you realise it, and a potential way Renard might be tricked into returning the gift to Coyote, or Loup, or whoever it is at that time. That sounds about right, except for one thing. His humanoid doll form. It doesn't look wolf-like to me at all but maybe I'm missing something? If I remember right the elf kids in Zimmyland thought it looked more like a teddy bear. Like I said before, we've only seen him in 3 forms, and only 2 of them are versions of wolves.
I'm not sure he is constrained by the wolf toy form, but maybe he is. I'm not at all suggesting he should leave that body, I'm just wondering why he doesn't reshape it to look more like his real body. Surely he could at least give it a fluffy fox tail if he wished! Agree that he's restraining himself to those couple of forms, but I can't imagine Annie would be upset if he decided to make another that looked more like his natural form. Heck, we don't always see what he's up to - maybe he has!
Way back here, when he's hanging out with Hettie, she seems to think he could think up a form that was more pleasing to the eye if he tried. I guess that's what made me first think he had some choice in his form.
100% agree that he gets special shapeshifting powers because it's a stuffed toy - if he tried to reshape a human or Rogat Orjak I have to imagine that wouldn't go so well. But he doesn't seem to have to conserve mass or size. Also agree that he is staying where he is and as he is on purpose. I imagine if things would calm down he'd stay with Annie as long as she wanted him around.
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Post by drmemory on Feb 28, 2022 1:49:16 GMT
Furthermore, if Renard occupied his own body and then wished to occupy a different body, his own body would then die. It's been shown he can return to his own body. I wonder if the wolf toy would die if he left it? I would think he might be able to return to it, so long as it still has eyes. That was the only stated limitation on his power.
This could end up being important actually. Maybe he could take over Loup if Loup freaks out too badly, and still go back to the wolf toy. He doesn't seem the type to explore the boundaries of his powers, trying to make his white wolf form extra big or small or anything like that, but if Annie is in danger and he can help all bets are off.
Not giving that power to Loup may yet turn out to be really important!
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Post by drmemory on Feb 28, 2022 15:54:12 GMT
We've also seen mild variations, like when the lockpicks stuck out of his paws when he chased the bullies, but he certainly does seem to be sticking to wolf forms. Except for the anthropomorphic stuffed toy, of course.
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 28, 2022 21:57:01 GMT
We've also seen mild variations, like when the lockpicks stuck out of his paws when he chased the bullies, but he certainly does seem to be sticking to wolf forms. Except for the anthropomorphic stuffed toy, of course.
One important version to add: While in Kat's possession, he seemed to favor the form of a small dog over that of a wolf. |
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Post by drmemory on Feb 28, 2022 23:32:24 GMT
We've also seen mild variations, like when the lockpicks stuck out of his paws when he chased the bullies, but he certainly does seem to be sticking to wolf forms. Except for the anthropomorphic stuffed toy, of course.
One important version to add: While in Kat's possession, he seemed to favor the form of a small dog over that of a wolf. Oh My God! How could I forget Puppy Renard! So cute! |
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