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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 9, 2022 8:05:06 GMT
So... The robots do have a kind of life, but a kind "Loup" was unaware of... okay, but similar to the glass-eyed men? That's a bit surprising. |
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Post by blahzor on Feb 9, 2022 8:06:57 GMT
Kat: Have you even created life yet Bro!?!
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Post by jda on Feb 9, 2022 8:23:27 GMT
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Post by madjack on Feb 9, 2022 8:24:40 GMT
Looks like we're past the flashbacks now.
Perhaps Kat will be able to put the glass-eyed men through the same kind of process she did the robots.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 9, 2022 8:33:01 GMT
There's about three different things on this page that I'm withholding judgement on. Even if "Loup" has the same ability that Coyote had to peer into the ether that doesn't mean he knows how to do it as well, even if he has Coyote's memories I suspect he can't exercise Coyote's understanding. Ysengrin just wasn't subtle enough.
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Post by bicarbonat on Feb 9, 2022 8:33:20 GMT
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Post by blahzor on Feb 9, 2022 8:34:05 GMT
Kat and her computer are one and the same as she can only use it and is basically conjuring it at will. The display and keyboard isn't real and just responding to her pantomime |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Feb 9, 2022 9:01:57 GMT
"She is nothing" has gotta be the underestimation of the century
He's basically Napoleon marching into Russia right now
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Post by King Mir on Feb 9, 2022 9:03:41 GMT
So... The robots do have a kind of life, but a kind "Loup" was unaware of... okay, but similar to the glass-eyed men? That's a bit surprising. I think this just means that the robots were sapient and so were the glass-eyed men. Loup isn't impressed. Kat is an angel to them, but what is an angel next to a god? Again, he's not impressed. I don't see evidence that loup can't see what Kat looks like etherically. |
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Post by flowsthead on Feb 9, 2022 9:12:24 GMT
I would argue the "and yet..." signifies that he's not foolish enough to trust his first reaction and is interested in finding out more. He's doing reconnaissance. That's actually pretty forward thinking of Loup.
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Post by arkadi on Feb 9, 2022 9:47:05 GMT
So... Does this mean that the robots, the new people, Kat's "angelic" nature, somehow exist outside of Loup's perception? Does it mean that they have no part in the Ether? That would explain why Loup can't see the Court's big project either: it's not shielded from him, it's just some kind of "dark matter" to him. But is this just Loup's problem? Or did Coyote have the same limitation?
Also, any Warhammer 40K fans around here? Because this reminds me big time of when the Necrons wanted to segregate a huge chunk of the galaxy from the Inmaterium so they wouldn't have to worry about the influence of Chaos. I'm starting to get similar vibes from the Court...
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 9, 2022 10:17:30 GMT
Reality in the GCU has layers and not everybody who can see into the ether sees into the ether the exact same way. Remember the strings? Jeanne could see them. It's probably easier to see things that are directly interacting with you, somewhat easier to see things that are indirectly impacting you, harder to see things that have nothing to do with you, and difficult to see things you've got no frame of reference for. Even if he's got the power to see all the layers he probably doesn't bother with many because the information is (in his mind) useless. Some layers are not only irrelevant but perhaps disquieting. For example, the robots' minds were probably molded after Diego and Ysengrin is likewise in "Loup" so in one layer that maglev scene probably looked like this  |
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Post by blahzor on Feb 9, 2022 10:49:06 GMT
So... The robots do have a kind of life, but a kind "Loup" was unaware of... okay, but similar to the glass-eyed men? That's a bit surprising. I think this just means that the robots were sapient and so were the glass-eyed men. Loup isn't impressed. Kat is an angel to them, but what is an angel next to a god? Again, he's not impressed. I don't see evidence that loup can't see what Kat looks like etherically. I think just calling her a "mere" human is the sign Loup can't or isn't even trying to see her Robo Angel form. He's looking at her but not looking AT her There's so far what 4 levels (1-4) of Ether vision shown and he's looking at level 0 (Coyote/Zimmy see at 4, Annie has seen glimpses at 3 [after talking with Coyote and the Smitty strings] and 4 [Robo Kat in the key], the faires see at 2) |
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Post by blahzor on Feb 9, 2022 10:56:27 GMT
Reality in the GCU has layers and not everybody who can see into the ether sees into the ether the exact same way. Remember the strings? Jeanne could see them. It's probably easier to see things that are directly interacting with you, somewhat easier to see things that are indirectly impacting you, harder to see things that have nothing to do with you, and difficult to see things you've got no frame of reference for. Even if he's got the power to see all the layers he probably doesn't bother with many because the information is (in his mind) useless. Some layers are not only irrelevant but perhaps disquieting. For example, the robots' minds were probably molded after Diego and Ysengrin is likewise in "Loup" so in one layer that maglev scene probably looked like this View AttachmentWe do easily ignore things we see as useless the brain just filters it until pointed out |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 9, 2022 12:16:29 GMT
"She is nothing" has gotta be the underestimation of the century He's basically Napoleon marching into Russia right now I don't think that metaphor holds. What could Kat do if Loup seriously attacked her? Challenge him to a robot opcode read-off? Maybe she could create a shield around herself or materialize a weapon (which she would have no experience of handling) with the help of the Etheric computer, but if Loup knows where the thing is, he can drop a building on it with a swipe of his paw.
Kat has amazing and supernatural technological abilities, but she can't even enter the Ether without a fancy gadget, nor is she able to control her angelic appearance in any way or has ever shown that it even has any special abilities. She could influence the past via time travel, but only because the Norns allowed her, and Coyote ended that trip with a flick of his finger.
People (not necessarily talking about you here) keep on acting as if Kat could just look a God to death when in reality she can merely see through Etheric illusions and has cowered in fear at the mere sight of Ketrak or Ankou. When the cruise ship was turned into Zimmingham, Kat was the only one who didn't do anything to fight back until the others had defeated the Seraphs, freed Zimmy and turned the ship back. Then Kat went and euthanized a dying sperm whale head and told the Seraphs, who were already literally crawling on the floor, to buzz off. Just doesn't seem that impressive to me.
EDIT: I just re-read a couple pages and realized Kat's computer is hidden away in a secret location. Okay. Loup will have to drop a couple buildings directly onto her then, or grab the ground she is standing on and hurl that into space if he can't touch her directly because of a shield.
Kat and her computer are one and the same as she can only use it and is basically conjuring it at will. The display and keyboard isn't real and just responding to her pantomime What makes you think only she can use it? So far it seems to be a further development of her mother's computer, which can be used by anyone. |
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Post by aline on Feb 9, 2022 15:59:19 GMT
I thought it was pretty clear it was the Court's Omega device that Loup referenced, not Kat or anything Kat built. |
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Post by ctso74 on Feb 9, 2022 16:37:55 GMT
The type of Etheric life, that Loup is referring to, would probably require someone dying with cyberfaith, and being brought across by a psychopomp. I hope that's not the case, as it would probably be Robot.
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Post by drmemory on Feb 9, 2022 17:09:04 GMT
Love seeing Loup try to use his brain! Go, little dude, go! You're on to something! If a mere human can create a new race of life, similar to something Coyote did, without using the ether, then??? Think!
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Post by blahzor on Feb 9, 2022 20:55:52 GMT
I thought it was pretty clear it was the Court's Omega device that Loup referenced, not Kat or anything Kat built. It was just the proximity to Annie in a different panel that it had to be Kat or something that was really close to her |
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Post by mordekai on Feb 9, 2022 22:04:13 GMT
"She's nothing... a mere human..."
Oh, man, I am SO anticipating Loup finding about Kat's Robotic Eldritch Abomination side...!  |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 9, 2022 22:29:02 GMT
I thought it was pretty clear it was the Court's Omega device that Loup referenced, not Kat or anything Kat built. It was just the proximity to Annie in a different panel that it had to be Kat or something that was really close to her This. Plus, many readers theorize Kat IS the Omega Device. |
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Post by Runningflame on Feb 9, 2022 23:18:47 GMT
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Post by SilverbackRon on Feb 10, 2022 1:59:08 GMT
Kat: Have you even created life yet Bro!?! What do you know about creating life? Your hair doesn't even stick up. |
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Post by mochakimono on Feb 10, 2022 2:13:57 GMT
I suppose once he put on the tracksuit, it was just a matter of time before the ominous squat.
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Post by saardvark on Feb 10, 2022 3:02:13 GMT
So... The robots do have a kind of life, but a kind "Loup" was unaware of... okay, but similar to the glass-eyed men? That's a bit surprising. I think this just means that the robots were sapient and so were the glass-eyed men. Loup isn't impressed. Kat is an angel to them, but what is an angel next to a god? Again, he's not impressed. I don't see evidence that loup can't see what Kat looks like etherically. Still, what Kat has achieved here could be seen as semi-god-like, creating a new, sapient sort-of life... The NP are essentially fully organic shells (now that they have Juliette's engineered bio-brains as well). The only non-organic part is the robot code that is transferred into the bio-brains via Kat's computer and Diego's eldritch demon-green arrow of soul trapping. That is a pretty impressive feat, which Loup is starting to grasp: "Yet.... these creatures she made..." Loup may be turning some more attention to Kat in the future... |
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Post by King Mir on Feb 10, 2022 10:04:07 GMT
I think it's not so much the tech, as Kat projecting herself into the either. And the fact that Zimmy sees her this way shows that an etheric being could glimpse her nature without her intentionally projecting. |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 10, 2022 13:33:54 GMT
I think this just means that the robots were sapient and so were the glass-eyed men. Loup isn't impressed. Kat is an angel to them, but what is an angel next to a god? Again, he's not impressed. I don't see evidence that loup can't see what Kat looks like etherically. Still, what Kat has achieved here could be seen as semi-god-like, creating a new, sapient sort-of life... The NP are essentially fully organic shells (now that they have Juliette's engineered bio-brains as well). The only non-organic part is the robot code that is transferred into the bio-brains via Kat's computer and Diego's eldritch demon-green arrow of soul trapping. That is a pretty impressive feat, which Loup is starting to grasp: "Yet.... these creatures she made..." Loup may be turning some more attention to Kat in the future... No, their bodies are artificial, except for the brain. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Feb 10, 2022 13:38:07 GMT
So... The robots do have a kind of life, but a kind "Loup" was unaware of... okay, but similar to the glass-eyed men? That's a bit surprising. Is it? The Glass Eyed Men have been a counterpart to the robots from literally Day 1. They're metaphorical mirrors at a textual level and analogous within GC universe. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Feb 10, 2022 13:39:04 GMT
I suppose once he put on the tracksuit, it was just a matter of time before the ominous squat. Slava Slav - yeahhh bwoynik. |
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Post by Gemminie on Feb 10, 2022 17:52:34 GMT
So disguised Loup is helping the New People dig for CPUs, and as he does, he observes. He considers the robots to have had "some manner of life in them," but not "the kind [he] was aware of."
The format of this page is really interesting. In the main frame, Loup-as-New-Person is crouching on a piece of rubble, looking pensive, with his hair pulled back to reveal the single Coyote ear that's sticking out of his disguise, just as it did in his regular Loup form. In white-outlined circular insets, which look a lot like memory bubbles, we see him digging for CPUs, looking at the rebirth containers the New People come out of, seeing Kat, and watching Annie walk away with Kat and Renard. And, in the upper right corner we see a bubble containing a lot of robots, while in the lower left corner we see a number of shadow people/glass-eyed men. And then, in a square inset in the lower right, he appears to be interrupted, which is probably meant to lead into the next page.
Interestingly he doesn't see any kind of bright blinding light when he sees Kat, nor does he see a machine angel. This may simply be because she wasn't the bright light Loup reported seeing before when Kat was near Renard, or it may be that she just wasn't using her machine angel powers at the moment. But Loup just says, "She is nothing. A mere human."
Then he talks about the New People and compares them to the shadow people/glass-eyed men. He says that they're something similar. He doesn't say in what way they're similar, though. Wild speculation: Despite all of the change they've been through, the New People still don't have souls and still can't affect the Ether when they die. But something may happen to merge them with the shadow people somehow, forming an even stranger new population of beings.
Who's interrupting Loup/Jerrek in the inset panel? I'm guessing it's probably Lana. As this all seems to be a flashback, this is probably how they met.
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