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Post by madjack on Jan 31, 2022 8:03:33 GMT
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Post by flowsthead on Jan 31, 2022 8:06:21 GMT
If nothing else, that is a sweet Coyote design.
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Post by madjack on Jan 31, 2022 9:11:40 GMT
Thinking on this page a bit, this sequence might be about communicating why Loup didn't just go on a Crush/Kill/Destroy rampage and has gone the subtle route disguising and integrating himself with Annie and Kat's extended social circle.
Coyote's pointed out another area he's lacking and he Can't Have That.
Next page or three will be interesting.
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Post by Viridian on Jan 31, 2022 9:52:10 GMT
As suspected, having Coyote's memories isn't enough. There is just something inherent to being Coyote that Loup just lacks.
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Post by ctso74 on Jan 31, 2022 14:41:34 GMT
He's still a creep, but poor Loup.
Coyote manipulated Ysengrin, so Loup would have a desperate need for all of Coyote's power. I doubt there would ever be a moment, where Loup would say "That's enough". Now Coyote is just laying crumbs, knowing Loup has no choice but to follow. To what end though?
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Post by Gemminie on Jan 31, 2022 15:59:44 GMT
So rather than starting with the Omega Device or some other technological source of "Knowledge of Everything," we're starting with that moment when the memory-fragment of Coyote spoke to Loup, which only Loup heard (not even we readers did). I guess now we're going to hear at least some of what he said.
He seems to be emphasizing the point that although Loup now has all of Coyote's memories, he doesn't have his understanding – meaning that Loup will have to interpret the memories for himself. Having the Jedi library doesn't give you all the Jedi wisdom.
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 31, 2022 17:33:47 GMT
This chapter already promises to answer way more burning questions than I thought it would...which probably means it's just going to raise even more questions, eventually.
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Post by DonDueed on Jan 31, 2022 18:31:12 GMT
It's interesting that Tom withheld this conversation from us (the readers) until now. It seems likely that we're going to have to reinterpret all the events of the last chapter or two in a new light.
This could end up revolutionizing our notions about any number of things, such as the reason for Loup "going postal", why he attacked the court in the specific way he did, why he "disappeared", why he chose to embody himself as a New Person (if that's what he did), and what his intentions are going forward.
Up to now I've been assuming that Loup was set off because Coyote revealed that Annie would use the tooth to kill him, and the reaction was more or less blind fury. It seems we may soon learn whether that assumption was valid at all. Loup hasn't shown much subtlety in the past, but perhaps in this instance he's playing on a whole different level. If so, I suspect Coyote gave him the inspiration.
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Post by blahzor on Jan 31, 2022 21:15:22 GMT
So rather than starting with the Omega Device or some other technological source of "Knowledge of Everything," we're starting with that moment when the memory-fragment of Coyote spoke to Loup, which only Loup heard (not even we readers did). I guess now we're going to hear at least some of what he said. He seems to be emphasizing the point that although Loup now has all of Coyote's memories, he doesn't have his understanding – meaning that Loup will have to interpret the memories for himself. Having the Jedi library doesn't give you all the Jedi wisdom. Maybe Loup is missing the fundamental understanding of how Coyote got all the powers from different myths and better versions of them. The real control over the ether not seen in 1 being |
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Post by jda on Jan 31, 2022 23:28:19 GMT
This chapter already promises to answer way more burning questions than I thought it would...which probably means it's just going to raise even more questions, eventually. When Gods whispers between them, you better listen quietly, because they will advance the plot. |
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Post by Runningflame on Feb 1, 2022 1:24:48 GMT
This, coupled with the chapter title, has me thinking: What if "knowledge of everything" is what Coyote means by "man's attempt to become [G/g]od"? We have it from Loup that the ability to know everything is part of what it is to be Coyote (even if Coyote chooses not to know everything because it's more fun that way). And there have been some hints that the Omega device may be more about information than about making stuff happen (Tony and Surma's slugs, for instance). |
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Post by drmemory on Feb 1, 2022 5:28:47 GMT
Clearly, we are seeing the start of what Coyote told Loup in that scene. I hope we get to see more!
We know what he told Annie just before this event, and what he told her he was going to tell Loup, but we know Coyote can tweak the truth quite well to meet his desires. We also don't really know why Loup appeared to freak out after - now that we see Loup is capable of some self-control and subtlety I'm not taking anything for granted. 
You know, Annie interrupted Loup in mid-pounce, using the lake water to distract him. So when Coyote told Aata that Loup was going to attack and it would be all his fault, I really think he was referring to what had just happened, even though we were sorta led down the path towards thinking the attack was due to what Coyote told him. Loup was already attacking, and it WAS Aata's fault!
It sure looked like Loup freaked out at that point, but you know, he didn't kill off the forest animals, and in fact they turned out to be safe in those tunnels. We also haven't heard anything about a death toll in the court! Is that because Tom hasn't gotten around to it, or because Loup was a lot more controlled than he appeared?
Really cool page, but I have to say, Coyote looks pretty scary there.
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Post by fia on Feb 1, 2022 12:54:31 GMT
Well, I guess you can kill a God, and you can eat a God, but that doesn't mean you become a God.
Loup and the Court perhaps both need to understand that at some point.
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Post by drmemory on Feb 2, 2022 3:43:31 GMT
Well, I guess you can kill a God, and you can eat a God, but that doesn't mean you become a God. Loup and the Court perhaps both need to understand that at some point. That is an interesting point. I think the Court knows that already - they try to steal energy but it really seems like they don't care much if the one they steal it from dies, or what. It really seems like they tried to use Coyote's power to charge a battery, more or less!
Loup, on the other hand... I don't know what he was thinking. He actually DID ingest Coyote's power, but lacked the insight to use it, or as Coyote said just now "You have my memories, but not my understanding!". Coyote has hinted at this sort of thing before, and so has Annie, when they each tried to convince Loup that he couldn't control the forest because of missing abilities but because of a shortcoming in himself.
So... If Coyote was a God, is Loup one now? He's clearly not as clever as Coyote but that doesn't really speak to his power or Godhood!
Disturbing thought for the day: what did Ysengrin think would happen when he ate Coyote, and why did he think what he thought? |
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Post by jda on Feb 2, 2022 5:31:23 GMT
Well, I guess you can kill a God, and you can eat a God, but that doesn't mean you become a God. Exacly, like, Loup is cheating, using godly energies stored on Coyote, and mythic existence, from Ysengrin, ... but no one actually has had Loup as his personal deity and died/went to the ether. So Loup is just a riding Coyote's wave, not being the Ocean wave. |
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Post by pyradonis on Feb 2, 2022 12:51:10 GMT
Disturbing thought for the day: what did Ysengrin think would happen when he ate Coyote, and why did he think what he thought?  I think Loup explains Ysengrin's general reasoning here. As for why he thought he would gain Coyote's powers by devouring his body...hm. Well, there have been many human cultures in which it was believed that consuming the body (or a specific part) of another would give you their power. If Coyote's theory is true, this belief must have gone into the Ether as well and made it real... So logically, in the Gunnerverse it must be possible to eat someone to gain their power. Buuut... it probably doesn't work that easily, as Ysengrin found out the hard way. |
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Post by drmemory on Feb 3, 2022 2:28:15 GMT
Disturbing thought for the day: what did Ysengrin think would happen when he ate Coyote, and why did he think what he thought? I think Loup explains Ysengrin's general reasoning here. As for why he thought he would gain Coyote's powers by devouring his body...hm. Well, there have been many human cultures in which it was believed that consuming the body (or a specific part) of another would give you their power. If Coyote's theory is true, this belief must have gone into the Ether as well and made it real... So logically, in the Gunnerverse it must be possible to eat someone to gain their power. Buuut... it probably doesn't work that easily, as Ysengrin found out the hard way. That certainly shows why Ysengrin was angry enough to do what he did! I'm not sure it shows why he thought, in advance, that destroying him would let him "take his power". So, ya, maybe it's just understood in the Gunnerverse that it works that way.
It kinda did too - he got the power, just didn't know how best to use it. Power did NOT grant him understanding and insight. You probably have to get that the hard way, just as in real life. |
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