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Post by mturtle7 on Dec 16, 2021 18:22:35 GMT
Machines wear out and malfunction, too. They won't be unfamiliar with that, at least. But death as a necessary corollary of growth? Good question and I would be surprised to discover that any of them, including Robot himself, had considered the interrelationship between the two. If Kat can transfer robot brain into an organic synth-brain, could she do a synth to synth transfer? If so, an NP could be made effectively immortal - you just transfer the brain into a new body when the old one wears out... ...though there may be a problem though if the transfer goes through the green arrow with ownership and such. Clippy returns? Far more plausible to me than brain transfer is simple part-swapping: no reason the robots have to die if they can just swap out their old modular organs for freshly synthesized ones! Well, I mean, there are still plenty of ways for them to die, but not from old age like us humans.
Also, I'm pretty sure that since Kat permanently changed the arrow's metaphysical contract to be multi-use, Clippy won't have to show up again, even for synth-to-synth transfers. Salsamel & Clippy are very good at their jobs, at that means thinking ahead!
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Post by Gemminie on Dec 16, 2021 19:50:47 GMT
Lana's got sandwich crumbs on her face and suggests that Annie take Jerrek to see Piter. But we don't know who that is until Annie explains that he used to be a barber robot. Just the other day I was wondering whether the hairdresser robot had been affected by the shield imperative. This doesn't directly answer that question specifically, but I am relieved to hear that he's been found and upgraded. Or at least a hairdresser robot's been found/upgraded. I suppose there might be more than one. Anyway, it seems Piter's continued his old profession. I hope he's still good at it despite having considerably fewer arms.
Annie's going to take Jerrek to get a haircut (another "uncovering"). I'm glad this is still a comic about people getting haircuts – New People, in this case, but it still counts, in my opinion. Annie's going to see some guests – most likely these will be former Forest residents who are settling somewhere in the Court, and now they'll meet their first New Person, because Annie will probably ask Jerrek if he wants to go along with her, and he's not likely to say no. How will they react to him? This could be very interesting.
Jerrek's very uncertain and looks back at Lana. She's all two-thumbs-up, intensely positive, tongue sticking out like before, and she's still got crumbs on her face and probably doesn't realize it. That Lana. She's a handful. So Jerrek's off to the barber with Annie and Renard.
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Post by speedwell on Dec 16, 2021 20:54:36 GMT
If Kat can transfer robot brain into an organic synth-brain, could she do a synth to synth transfer? If so, an NP could be made effectively immortal - you just transfer the brain into a new body when the old one wears out... ...though there may be a problem though if the transfer goes through the green arrow with ownership and such. Clippy returns? Far more plausible to me than brain transfer is simple part-swapping: no reason the robots have to die if they can just swap out their old modular organs for freshly synthesized ones! Well, I mean, there are still plenty of ways for them to die, but not from old age like us humans.
Also, I'm pretty sure that since Kat permanently changed the arrow's metaphysical contract to be multi-use, Clippy won't have to show up again, even for synth-to-synth transfers. Salsamel & Clippy are very good at their jobs, at that means thinking ahead!
I see what you mean. I'm coming down on the side of newly synthesised, standard, parts becoming less and less useful as time goes by and the individual undergoes growth and change and, yes, processes working continually toward greater individuality. Because I'm more and more convinced that a central, if not the central, theme of the comic is the union of mind and body in unforeseen ways. To me, all of the Hermetic allusions are just allegories, as Professor Paracelsus held, for the perfecting of the self in virtue. |
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Post by saardvark on Dec 17, 2021 0:39:55 GMT
If Kat can transfer robot brain into an organic synth-brain, could she do a synth to synth transfer? If so, an NP could be made effectively immortal - you just transfer the brain into a new body when the old one wears out... ...though there may be a problem though if the transfer goes through the green arrow with ownership and such. Clippy returns? Far more plausible to me than brain transfer is simple part-swapping: no reason the robots have to die if they can just swap out their old modular organs for freshly synthesized ones! Well, I mean, there are still plenty of ways for them to die, but not from old age like us humans.
Also, I'm pretty sure that since Kat permanently changed the arrow's metaphysical contract to be multi-use, Clippy won't have to show up again, even for synth-to-synth transfers. Salsamel & Clippy are very good at their jobs, at that means thinking ahead!
The problem, though, is that the organic synth brains will likely age as well, and eventually need to be replaced. Newly minted synth brains will likely have basic "in common" core abilities (respiration, digestion, simple movement, etc), but won't have the now individual "personalities" and memories of their NP owners. That information will need transfering to the new synth brain. So you have to have a synth-synth transfer at some point, or the NP as a unique personality dies when their synth brain ages out. EDIT: (It's unclear yet if synth-synth or human-synth is even possible, though...) You might be right about Clippy though! |
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Post by blahzor on Dec 17, 2021 10:19:18 GMT
Machines wear out and malfunction, too. They won't be unfamiliar with that, at least. But death as a necessary corollary of growth? Good question and I would be surprised to discover that any of them, including Robot himself, had considered the interrelationship between the two. Well, he did hold that sermon about "the first of us that died a proper death", with a burial and the first repetition of "It was worth it." and all. The ancient golem Kat awakened first also wanted to be dead again. So I think the robots can also be weary of life, feel their time has passed etc. And like you said, wearout, malfunctions, accidents etc. will have claimed robotic "lives" before. I don't think they are going to have a problem with the fact that their new minds are mortal. However I am asking myself if any of them considered how awful and drawn out a human death can be. I also think S13 personally is thrilled by the possibility of being able to die like a human. Fracturing his finger and experiencing pain made him positively excited and zealous. He felt himself "evolving" and preached to the other robots how great it was to have experienced pain and understanding humans better, though some of them remarked that actual humans don't really seem to enjoy pain that much.
I also think robot/S13 will use the transfer process to cheat death forever at the same time |
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 17, 2021 12:26:19 GMT
Well, he did hold that sermon about "the first of us that died a proper death", with a burial and the first repetition of "It was worth it." and all. The ancient golem Kat awakened first also wanted to be dead again. So I think the robots can also be weary of life, feel their time has passed etc. And like you said, wearout, malfunctions, accidents etc. will have claimed robotic "lives" before. I don't think they are going to have a problem with the fact that their new minds are mortal. However I am asking myself if any of them considered how awful and drawn out a human death can be. I also think S13 personally is thrilled by the possibility of being able to die like a human. Fracturing his finger and experiencing pain made him positively excited and zealous. He felt himself "evolving" and preached to the other robots how great it was to have experienced pain and understanding humans better, though some of them remarked that actual humans don't really seem to enjoy pain that much.
I also think robot/S13 will use the transfer process to cheat death forever at the same time Well, I wouldn't put it past him to preach how great it is to be able to die a proper death and how death should be welcomed when it comes while at the same time staying immortal because "alas, there is still so much work for Me to do". |
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Post by drmemory on Dec 17, 2021 16:02:41 GMT
Their hair grows, but what about the rest of their bodies? There seem to be an awful lot of teenage-looking robots here. Are they destined to stay teens for the rest of their lives? Good question!
Arthur effectively grew up, by being given new bodies periodically. We still don't know why that was done. I'm thinking maybe his model was "companion bot" or some such, and he had been created as a companion for Juliette.
But what will happen with the NP? Can they self-repair or does Kat have to help with that? If they decide to look older, would she have to help with that as well? Or did she set them up so they can age in some way?
Most of the other robots were static. Diego's golem robots look the same now as when he created them, as far as has been shown. Only Arthur has been seen to change with age. So maybe robots think of that as normal - once they have a form, that's their form? Except for the cult leader of course, who has had many forms and may well have different expectations as a result.
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 17, 2021 21:45:22 GMT
Most of the other robots were static. Diego's golem robots look the same now as when he created them, as far as has been shown. Only Arthur has been seen to change with age. So maybe robots think of that as normal - once they have a form, that's their form? Except for the cult leader of course, who has had many forms and may well have different expectations as a result. I think both types exist. Arthur said writing love letters was something all of his friends "were doing it at the time". I understood it as his friends being young robots like himself. But at the same time, when people talk about the Seraphs, it always sounds like those always stay the same. "Did you know he's technically a Seraph?" (Lana, a few pages ago). And Arthur said about them that they are a very old model of robots who had kept to themselves for years. To me that sounds like once a Seraph, always a Seraph.
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Post by arkadi on Dec 22, 2021 9:29:27 GMT
Machines wear out and malfunction, too. They won't be unfamiliar with that, at least. But death as a necessary corollary of growth? Good question and I would be surprised to discover that any of them, including Robot himself, had considered the interrelationship between the two. Well, he did hold that sermon about "the first of us that died a proper death", with a burial and the first repetition of "It was worth it." and all.
The ancient golem Kat awakened first also wanted to be dead again. So I think the robots can also be weary of life, feel their time has passed etc. And like you said, wearout, malfunctions, accidents etc. will have claimed robotic "lives" before. I don't think they are going to have a problem with the fact that their new minds are mortal. However I am asking myself if any of them considered how awful and drawn out a human death can be.
I also think S13 personally is thrilled by the possibility of being able to die like a human. Fracturing his finger and experiencing pain made him positively excited and zealous. He felt himself "evolving" and preached to the other robots how great it was to have experienced pain and understanding humans better, though some of them remarked that actual humans don't really seem to enjoy pain that much.
Good point! Robot clearly gave proper thought to the question and decided that death "was worth it". But I wonder about the others: in She Gave Us an Ocean, when the angel talks Jerrick through his transformation, death is never mentioned once. He doesn't exactly get a choice either, he just gets cast into this new body. I'm sure this will be addressed sooner or later. |
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