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Post by madjack on Oct 6, 2021 7:03:42 GMT
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Post by philman on Oct 6, 2021 7:04:40 GMT
Much Drama, happy Cvet.
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Post by bicarbonat on Oct 6, 2021 7:08:38 GMT
Cvet: Much drama unfolds behind me!
Annie: My ears are positively burning.
I'll be here all month, folks.
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Post by madjack on Oct 6, 2021 7:13:39 GMT
So did the Shadow Men have some tricks of their own to keep safe, or was Loup losing it entirely performative and the Forest going ham was actually highly controlled chaos, because there's no way everyone is ok otherwise...
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Post by blazingstar on Oct 6, 2021 7:16:14 GMT
I spy an Aata behind them! Maybe we can get some answers from him.
With a psychic familiar connection between Annie and Renard, and an instant teleporter in Parley, coordinating a rescue should be fairly easy. Something tells me this comic isn't going to be so straightforward.
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Post by gpvos on Oct 6, 2021 8:43:05 GMT
So the Court is under attack but the Shadow Men have nothing better to do than to discuss whether to excommunicate Aata?
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Post by blahzor on Oct 6, 2021 9:28:55 GMT
too bad Aata they found out you're a mutie
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Post by todd on Oct 6, 2021 12:31:14 GMT
So the Court is under attack but the Shadow Men have nothing better to do than to discuss whether to excommunicate Aata? They probably thought that it was much easier to do something about Aata than to do something about Loup and the Forest. |
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Post by ohthatone on Oct 6, 2021 13:00:48 GMT
With the shadowmen likely to be mum on everything, thankfully we have cvet who will begrudgingly tell annie all the gossip. All. The. Gossip.
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Post by Gemminie on Oct 6, 2021 14:15:40 GMT
Annie appears to be taking a step toward a wall (perhaps to try blasting it?) when a familiar white clawed forepaw breaks through – it's Cvet, answering the "where's Cvet?" question we've had for a while. Has Cvet provided Annie and the Forest creatures with an escape path to the surface/outside? Cvet's first order of business is to learn more about what she's seeing, quite consistent with her, ah, information-spreading nature. Her second concern is where Parley is.
It turns out that Cvet has not provided a path to the outside. It seems that Cvet and the Shadow Men also found themselves in a tunnel. This is interesting – Annie, James and Parley, the Forest Creatures, and Cvet and the Shadow Men are four separate groups of creatures who weren't simply buried alive but ensconced within tunnels beneath the Forest wave, with room to move and enough air to breathe for at least a little while. This suggests either Loup's mercy (unlikely) or something about the nature of the Forest wave's matter (foamy, with lots of bubbles). Presumably Cvet either sensed sound or vibration coming from this direction or has been digging random tunnels to see what she finds.
With a grin Cvet mentions the drama unfolding behind her among the Shadow Men. Cvet has a lot to talk about, I'm sure. Aata is sitting down, looking contemplative, while Shell stands over him, looking worried. The rest of the Shadow Men are in a group farther away, amid a blue or green light – presumably someone's brought some Court flashlights. Or someone's playing games on their phone. Time for subterranean selfies!
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Post by rabbit on Oct 6, 2021 14:15:45 GMT
In a surprise twist, Loup appears and Cvet gossips to him until he begs Annie to kill him with the giggle-blade.
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Post by ctso74 on Oct 6, 2021 16:11:23 GMT
Cvet:"But you first, Annie. Is Flatwoods over there single?" *winks at Flatwoods*
Flatwoods Monster: *adjusts feathers*
It's awfully strange no one was killed in Loup's wave. Maybe he was right, that there was a reason he couldn't control the Forest. Coyote's fingers may still be in everything. Dead fingers, I guess.
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Post by novia on Oct 6, 2021 16:39:19 GMT
too bad Aata they found out you're a mutie I have a theory that all the shadow men have supernatural abilities, but not using them is the price of admission to the secret club. Yes, I'm saying Anthony Carver can do some kinda something magical. It's awfully strange no one was killed in Loup's wave. Oh I'm sure some redshirts with insufficient plot armor were killed. |
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Post by TBeholder on Oct 6, 2021 18:58:21 GMT
So did the Shadow Men have some tricks of their own to keep safe, or was Loup losing it entirely performative and the Forest going ham was actually highly controlled chaos, because there's no way everyone is ok otherwise... Not necessarily highly controlled. Just expanding in such a way that the trees are not shattered… and creatures caught in it won't be harmed (thus could cause more chaos, at least). As in, it's supposed to be an invasion rather than large-scale littering. |
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 6, 2021 21:51:51 GMT
Panel two: Moustache is on point.
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Post by saardvark on Oct 7, 2021 2:34:23 GMT
So did the Shadow Men have some tricks of their own to keep safe, or was Loup losing it entirely performative and the Forest going ham was actually highly controlled chaos, because there's no way everyone is ok otherwise... Not necessarily highly controlled. Just expanding in such a way that the trees are not shattered… and creatures caught in it won't be harmed (thus could cause more chaos, at least). As in, it's supposed to be an invasion rather than large-scale littering. but the "expansion" also fell from great heights onto Cvet and the Shadow gang www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2512without major casualties! (several, at least, have survived) I contend that would take some significant control to arrange this, and since Loup has a poor handle on the Forest, I'm guessing the semi-undead paw of a certain OTHER canine has a hand in managing this.... (see my comments on [2521,2]...) |
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Post by drmemory on Oct 7, 2021 5:26:31 GMT
So did the Shadow Men have some tricks of their own to keep safe, or was Loup losing it entirely performative and the Forest going ham was actually highly controlled chaos, because there's no way everyone is ok otherwise... I still think the tunnels are pre-existing, though I do not know whether the crowd of forest critters were already in them or somehow got there after Loup unfroze time.
As for why Aata, Shell, and the redshirts are down there, maybe Aata saved them? It's not like they don't already know he has powers!
I'm resistant to the "performative Loup" theory for a couple of reasons. The big ones: Both Ysengrin and Loup have shown an inability to handle Coyote's powers. Loup really seemed to be fleeing in blind panic when he pulled a wall around himself and let go of the forest - I'll be really shocked if it turns out that was all an act.
I suppose Coyote could pull something like that off, I mean a big act like that, but it seems like he has a much bigger plan in progress. I could certainly see him having set up the tunnel system well in advance, but we've seen no evidence of Loup controlling himself through all of this.
Best guess - Coyote told Loup the plan, Loup couldn't find a way to disagree with it being a good plan, Loup REALLY doesn't want to die so he panicked and pulled a shell around himself and let go of the forest and spared not a thought for the people there from the court and the forest creatures. We've just recently seen him say he doesn't care about the lesser creatures affected by his actions! So anyone who lived through Loup's panic did so on their own or with help from someone other than Loup. Except for, maybe, Annie, who he may have guided to a soft landing, because he loves her.
Sorry to sorta hijack your post, madjack! To address your other point, I don't think everyone is ok, just the main characters we care about. I sorta think there are dead forest creatures and dead court citizens as a result of Loup's actions. If true, there are dark times coming, and it will probably be what leads to everyone agreeing Loup needs to die.  |
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Post by jda on Oct 7, 2021 6:10:30 GMT
Panel two: Moustache is on point.  |
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Post by madjack on Oct 7, 2021 11:06:01 GMT
So did the Shadow Men have some tricks of their own to keep safe, or was Loup losing it entirely performative and the Forest going ham was actually highly controlled chaos, because there's no way everyone is ok otherwise... I still think the tunnels are pre-existing, though I do not know whether the crowd of forest critters were already in them or somehow got there after Loup unfroze time. As for why Aata, Shell, and the redshirts are down there, maybe Aata saved them? It's not like they don't already know he has powers! I'm resistant to the "performative Loup" theory for a couple of reasons. The big ones: Both Ysengrin and Loup have shown an inability to handle Coyote's powers. Loup really seemed to be fleeing in blind panic when he pulled a wall around himself and let go of the forest - I'll be really shocked if it turns out that was all an act. I suppose Coyote could pull something like that off, I mean a big act like that, but it seems like he has a much bigger plan in progress. I could certainly see him having set up the tunnel system well in advance, but we've seen no evidence of Loup controlling himself through all of this. Best guess - Coyote told Loup the plan, Loup couldn't find a way to disagree with it being a good plan, Loup REALLY doesn't want to die so he panicked and pulled a shell around himself and let go of the forest and spared not a thought for the people there from the court and the forest creatures. We've just recently seen him say he doesn't care about the lesser creatures affected by his actions! So anyone who lived through Loup's panic did so on their own or with help from someone other than Loup. Except for, maybe, Annie, who he may have guided to a soft landing, because he loves her. Sorry to sorta hijack your post, madjack! To address your other point, I don't think everyone is ok, just the main characters we care about. I sorta think there are dead forest creatures and dead court citizens as a result of Loup's actions. If true, there are dark times coming, and it will probably be what leads to everyone agreeing Loup needs to die. Don't apologise! Any discussion that gets you to think about your position on an idea is worthwhile. I really like the shell idea, like you say, he's acting like a scared child pulling a security blanket over himself. This could go a ways to explaining the tunnels themselves, the tide of tree and earth is layered over the ground like a flowing blanket. Speaking of Shell, I later realised an argument against the performative idea is his initial attack on her, which isn't the action of someone trying to put on a non-lethal show. |
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Post by ohthatone on Oct 7, 2021 11:50:45 GMT
My current theory on how the heck are this many people alive is Loup lost control but coyote stepped in just enough to make sure his plans weren't destroyed.
On another note, i assume there's likely to be a change in leadership for the shadowmen now. Who is likely to take aata's place? Loyal underling Shell? Action sock Tony? Totally new character?
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Post by DonDueed on Oct 7, 2021 12:51:07 GMT
Panel two: Moustache is on point. It's a nostril mustache!
... a nostache?
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Post by gpvos on Oct 7, 2021 13:08:23 GMT
They probably thought that it was much easier to do something about Aata than to do something about Loup and the Forest. Ah yes, classic bikeshedding. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Oct 8, 2021 4:51:31 GMT
They probably thought that it was much easier to do something about Aata than to do something about Loup and the Forest. Ah yes, classic bikeshedding. I learned a new word today! Thank you, gpvos. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Oct 8, 2021 4:52:40 GMT
Panel two: Moustache is on point. It's a nostril mustache!
... a nostache?
Ooh, another new wor-
wait...
ok, maybe not.
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Post by todd on Oct 8, 2021 13:23:22 GMT
To elaborate on my earlier point, I think that the "take it out on Aata" response is a case of "The real problem in your life is someone or something that you can't do anything about, that is out of your reach - maybe because they're too powerful, maybe because it's not a person but something impersonal, so you channel your anger and frustration out on something that you *can* get at". Say, a person who's mad at the world kicking a stone or a tree to vent their fury on it (or, in a darker manifestation, beating someone smaller and weaker up, simply because that person was a vulnerable target and nearby).
I still think that Ysengrin/Loup's war on the Court is itself a manifestation of this phenomenon. What he's really angry about is the way the "Court-universe" works, where beings like himself were shaped out of the ether by human imagination, and have no independent existence as humans do. But he can't do anything to that system; it's an abstract force that you can't reach with physical violence. So he pours out his anger at the humans instead, because he *can* get at them. (Granted, there's also the fact that the Court's projects are endangering beings like himself - though he's placing the Forest and its people in just as much danger themselves in his attacks as the Court could.)
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Post by blazingstar on Oct 9, 2021 1:14:54 GMT
Ah yes, classic bikeshedding. I learned a new word today! Thank you, gpvos. *Googles* And now I have learned a new word, as well! Reminds me of "milkshake ducking" or "sea-lioning", a term which invokes the recollection of a whole story and a moral learned through that story. (For those who wish to be saved a search: "bikeshedding" describes our tendency to devote a disproportionate amount of our time to menial and trivial matters while leaving important matters unattended, named for software developer Poul-Henning Kamp's 1999 story "Why should I care what color the bike-shed is?" in which painting the bike-shed is bickered about and the bike-shed never gets built.) |
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Post by saardvark on Oct 9, 2021 3:51:20 GMT
there is a certain resignation and defeat to Aata here, like he took a big gamble, and screwed up royally., utterly
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 9, 2021 10:47:23 GMT
I would like to add this to the growing collection of good names for bands stemming from this forum. Panel two: Moustache is on point. Hahaha! Your edit is on point as well! |
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Post by todd on Oct 9, 2021 13:23:43 GMT
(For those who wish to be saved a search: "bikeshedding" describes our tendency to devote a disproportionate amount of our time to menial and trivial matters while leaving important matters unattended, named for software developer Poul-Henning Kamp's 1999 story "Why should I care what color the bike-shed is?" in which painting the bike-shed is bickered about and the bike-shed never gets built.) I still think that it's a case of "We're powerless to solve the main problem, and so focus on the side problem because it's all we can do." (To use the "bike-shed" analogy, in this case they lack the materials to build the bike-shed, have seemingly no means of obtaining them, and so argue about what color to paint it because it's the only thing they can do.) |
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Post by drmemory on Oct 10, 2021 23:51:08 GMT
Well it really IS his fault - Aata put quite a lot of effort into planning and carrying out an attempt at stealing Coyote's full powers. Not for the first time, according to Coyote (who does not lie), though we lack details on the earlier attempts. I assume he is also the man behind the plans to remove Annie and Gamma far from the court? There is still an actual court behind things, I think. Maybe a board of directors or something? The shadow men seem to be the part that actually comes up with operations and carries them out, based on direction from the court. For example, here Aata tells Annie that the court feels that her interactions with the forest have not been satisfactory as of late, "so we will be arranging the handover of the artifact on OUR terms". "the court" = management, "we" = shadow men. Aata certainly seems to be in charge of the shadow men - he is the one that snagged the lake water, as well as the one that Jones reported Annie's mental state to. He's been walking around with his hands clasped together, grinning his snide little grin, whenever some sort of court ops (like trying to catch Jack) is in progress.
Evil Buddha for sure. I'm sure he'll turn out to have reasons for why he is the way he is, but I just don't like people like him, nor him specifically. Aside from current events, he let Annie take all the risks in negotiating with Loup, let her take all the blame for the elves and such, and then snaked the lake water from her after all that, without so much as a thank you.
I bet we'll find out that he is the one behind Annie's bad rep with the court too - who else have we been introduced to that would let a teenage girl take the blame for everything that has happened and give her no credit for her hard work and the risks she has taken for the court? I could be wrong about that, of course.
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