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Post by saardvark on Sept 2, 2021 0:30:36 GMT
You know, I suspect the Court's leadership (if it survives in any form) is going to be more pissed for Aata's plan causing the Court's destruction than for his use of distasteful etheric powers... If the Court finds out about Kat's robot project, they might try blaming her on the argument that it removed enough robots from the "force-field generating function" to weaken its defenses against Loup's attack. Of course, if they don't know about that, they could use Aata as the scapegoat. (In all likelihood, the rest of the Court leadership probably agreed with his plan, but in such a way so that if it went wrong, they'd pretend it was all his fault and escape the blame.) Except the Court itself removed the robots to allow the Forest elves in: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2240www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2241Oddly though, once the elves were in the Court, the Court didn't put the robots back onto the shield line by "de-greening" them and replacing their CPUs. Its unclear what happened, but apparently they reshuffled the other robots so that fewer of them could still maintain the shield. No-one appears to have complained about the missing CPUs though (that we know of), so apparently the Court felt it was safe to maintain the shield with fewer bots. They probably enjoyed having a few more useable "greened" slave-bots around to do chores. So they cant blame Kat, it was their decision to maintain the shield with fewer bots.... |
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Post by warrl on Sept 2, 2021 3:17:14 GMT
And when has that ever stopped people in power from blaming anyone-else in the vicinity?
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Post by todd on Sept 2, 2021 12:46:25 GMT
If the Court finds out about Kat's robot project, they might try blaming her on the argument that it removed enough robots from the "force-field generating function" to weaken its defenses against Loup's attack. Of course, if they don't know about that, they could use Aata as the scapegoat. (In all likelihood, the rest of the Court leadership probably agreed with his plan, but in such a way so that if it went wrong, they'd pretend it was all his fault and escape the blame.) Except the Court itself removed the robots to allow the Forest elves in: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2240www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2241Oddly though, once the elves were in the Court, the Court didn't put the robots back onto the shield line by "de-greening" them and replacing their CPUs. Its unclear what happened, but apparently they reshuffled the other robots so that fewer of them could still maintain the shield. No-one appears to have complained about the missing CPUs though (that we know of), so apparently the Court felt it was safe to maintain the shield with fewer bots. They probably enjoyed having a few more useable "greened" slave-bots around to do chores. So they cant blame Kat, it was their decision to maintain the shield with fewer bots.... Except they wouldn't want to make themselves look careless or incompetent in handling the situation, so pointing the finger at Kat would ensure that she'd get the blame and they wouldn't. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Sept 2, 2021 17:59:25 GMT
Loup really wasn't bluffing about being able to crack their shield huh
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Post by Gemminie on Sept 2, 2021 21:07:03 GMT
If the Court finds out about Kat's robot project, they might try blaming her on the argument that it removed enough robots from the "force-field generating function" to weaken its defenses against Loup's attack. Of course, if they don't know about that, they could use Aata as the scapegoat. (In all likelihood, the rest of the Court leadership probably agreed with his plan, but in such a way so that if it went wrong, they'd pretend it was all his fault and escape the blame.) Except the Court itself removed the robots to allow the Forest elves in: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2240www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2241Oddly though, once the elves were in the Court, the Court didn't put the robots back onto the shield line by "de-greening" them and replacing their CPUs. Its unclear what happened, but apparently they reshuffled the other robots so that fewer of them could still maintain the shield. No-one appears to have complained about the missing CPUs though (that we know of), so apparently the Court felt it was safe to maintain the shield with fewer bots. They probably enjoyed having a few more useable "greened" slave-bots around to do chores. So they cant blame Kat, it was their decision to maintain the shield with fewer bots.... It seems fairly clear that Kat doesn't need to remove a robot's CPU to transfer its consciousness, though she does seem to need to have equipment attached to the robot's body. It's the Court that's removing robots' CPUs so it can override them. It was only because Kat learned that the Court was removing even more CPUs from robots' bodies (to make holes in the shield for the tree people to get through) that she decided to transfer more robots' consciousnesses and asked Juliette to bring her the box of CPUs (she did say she intended to offer the option to more robots later, but at the moment no robots could ask her, other than maybe Robot and the other Model S ones, but they don't seem to have asked). We saw Court-overridden robots in chapter 69, and Kat's reaction to them pretty clearly tells us that they're the Court's doing, not hers. And we don't know where the Court put those first overridden robots' original CPUs. Maybe they're in the same box, maybe not. So I submit that Kat has never removed a single CPU from a robot's body since the shield went up, not even Arthur's – only the Court has been doing that, so if they're looking for someone to blame for the shield being weak, it's whoever decided that they were going to figure out how to override robots, and whoever decided how many they were going to override. Whether it would have made any difference if the shield had been at its full original strength is another question. I really don't think it would have changed anything. |
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Post by todd on Sept 2, 2021 23:47:13 GMT
So I submit that Kat has never removed a single CPU from a robot's body since the shield went up, not even Arthur's – only the Court has been doing that, so if they're looking for someone to blame for the shield being weak, it's whoever decided that they were going to figure out how to override robots, and whoever decided how many they were going to override. Whether it would have made any difference if the shield had been at its full original strength is another question. I really don't think it would have changed anything. Good points, though I still suspect that the Court would feel more comfortable publicly placing the blame on a student with no official credentials, acting on a private project that was not a part of Court policy, rather than on Court officials (whom the people who decided to convert those robots into "zombie roots" undoubtedly were). With the drawback that the "robot zombies" were apparently public knowledge, and known to be official Court work; the Court might try another "Ministry of Truth"-style coverup, the way it had done with Jeanne, but it wouldn't be easy, especially not with the Forest attacking at the same time. |
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Post by drmemory on Sept 3, 2021 1:03:16 GMT
You know, I suspect the Court's leadership (if it survives in any form) is going to be more pissed for Aata's plan causing the Court's destruction than for his use of distasteful etheric powers... Let's hope so! I've been thinking that this should finally take the heat off of Annie. They kept blaming her for things going bad whenever she went into the forest, but now Aata and his shadow men clearly, obviously, blatantly made things worse, and Annie not only did not be also, in fact, saved them by distracting Loup with the water.
Nothing bad that happened this time is because of anything Annie did. Really, I don't think anything before was either, but this time there are witnesses!
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Post by drmemory on Sept 3, 2021 1:11:50 GMT
I still say we aren't seeing all that much of Coyote and Ysengrin's minds in Loup, and that it's reasonable to believe him when he says he is a new creature. That being said, he clearly has more of Ysengrin's emotions and prejudices than Coyote's. Coyote is content to watch the ants. Ysengrin wants to kill them all. Blunt, non-nuanced summary. Obviously there is more too it but in general I believe that's what we are seeing - they disrespected Loup by coming into his forest, tried to steal all of his power, and he is retaliating. From his point of view. From a human point of view, it is even mostly accurate, except for the paranoid parts.  If anything, it's worse - Aata came up with quite an elaborate plan over a period of time and didn't execute it until he believed it would work. I can't think of anything that Loup has done that is actually premeditated and intentionally malicious like that. Loup is mostly a creature of the moment, not a planner or schemer.
The important part here is still Coyote's master plan. I rather hope that it is working, whatever it is. I like Coyote. Best guess - he promised not to attack the court and set much of this up so that Loup would do it for him, to stop whatever terrible thing that the court is up to.
Why not just break his word? Why do something so complex? Have you met Coyote? Makes sense to me! 
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Post by todd on Sept 3, 2021 1:41:15 GMT
You know, I suspect the Court's leadership (if it survives in any form) is going to be more pissed for Aata's plan causing the Court's destruction than for his use of distasteful etheric powers... Let's hope so! I've been thinking that this should finally take the heat off of Annie. They kept blaming her for things going bad whenever she went into the forest, but now Aata and his shadow men clearly, obviously, blatantly made things worse, and Annie not only did not be also, in fact, saved them by distracting Loup with the water. Nothing bad that happened this time is because of anything Annie did. Really, I don't think anything before was either, but this time there are witnesses!
More likely, the Court would state that if it wasn't for Annie, the situation wouldn't have arisen where Aata and his Shadow Men met with Loup and tried stealing Coyote's power. |
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Post by todd on Sept 3, 2021 1:43:21 GMT
I still say we aren't seeing all that much of Coyote and Ysengrin's minds in Loup, and that it's reasonable to believe him when he says he is a new creature. That being said, he clearly has more of Ysengrin's emotions and prejudices than Coyote's. Coyote is content to watch the ants. Ysengrin wants to kill them all. Blunt, non-nuanced summary. Obviously there is more too it but in general I believe that's what we are seeing - they disrespected Loup by coming into his forest, tried to steal all of his power, and he is retaliating. From his point of view. From a human point of view, it is even mostly accurate, except for the paranoid parts. If anything, it's worse - Aata came up with quite an elaborate plan over a period of time and didn't execute it until he believed it would work. I can't think of anything that Loup has done that is actually premeditated and intentionally malicious like that. Loup is mostly a creature of the moment, not a planner or schemer. The important part here is still Coyote's master plan. I rather hope that it is working, whatever it is. I like Coyote. Best guess - he promised not to attack the court and set much of this up so that Loup would do it for him, to stop whatever terrible thing that the court is up to. Why not just break his word? Why do something so complex? Have you met Coyote? Makes sense to me! Yes, I think that Coyote's viewpoint would be "Anybody - even a lackwit like Ysengrin - can break his word. Finding an ingenious loophole to get around it - now that takes real cleverness." |
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Post by maxptc on Sept 3, 2021 1:51:59 GMT
More likely, the Court would state that if it wasn't for Annie, the situation wouldn't have arisen where Aata and his Shadow Men met with Loup and tried stealing Coyote's power. This seems more likely then Kat getting blamed. Annie is kinda the go to scapegoat for Forest problems. From my understanding, the Court is still only mildy aware of the range of Kats scientific pursuits, because her handler is Juliet who has been protecting her. Why the would they blame her when she has no connection to the entire operation from the Courts perspective? Edit:Oh if they found out. I missed that somehow whoops. |
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Post by aline on Sept 3, 2021 7:19:14 GMT
More likely, the Court would state that if it wasn't for Annie, the situation wouldn't have arisen where Aata and his Shadow Men met with Loup and tried stealing Coyote's power. The Court / the Shadow men have tried to steal Coyote's powers since before Annie was born. Most likely the plan was discussed and agreed at the highest level before going through it. The technology needed to do it must have been under development at least long before she came to the Court, considering the power stations were almost certainly experiments run to develop it. They didn't tell Annie or even Eglamore about what they were planning. Technically they could still blame Annie because evil bureaucrats don't usually balk at rewriting history for their benefit, but they'd be knowingly lying through their teeths if they did that. That would be on the level of blaming it on the weather. |
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Post by todd on Sept 3, 2021 12:47:45 GMT
More likely, the Court would state that if it wasn't for Annie, the situation wouldn't have arisen where Aata and his Shadow Men met with Loup and tried stealing Coyote's power. The Court / the Shadow men have tried to steal Coyote's powers since before Annie was born. Most likely the plan was discussed and agreed at the highest level before going through it. The technology needed to do it must have been under development at least long before she came to the Court, considering the power stations were almost certainly experiments run to develop it. They didn't tell Annie or even Eglamore about what they were planning. Technically they could still blame Annie because evil bureaucrats don't usually balk at rewriting history for their benefit, but they'd be knowingly lying through their teeths if they did that. That would be on the level of blaming it on the weather. It would probably be more a basis of "if Annie hadn't freed Jeanne, Coyote wouldn't have seen it as an opportunity to manipulate Ysengrin into killing him and becoming Loup, and Loup wouldn't exist to threaten the Court". (Of course, in turn, if the Court hadn't antagonized the Forest with their experiments with the ether, the Forest wouldn't have a motive to attack - or would it? Ysengrin was angry, not just at the Court for what it's doing with the ether, but also with the notion that humanity created all the etheric beings, making them mere offshoots of its imagination. Maybe his attack on the Court's really a magnified version of someone, angry at the way the world's going but feeling helpless to do anything about it, kicking a wall or a tree or a stone - or worse, taking it out on other living beings.) But I do think that the Court needs somebody to blame other than themselves (like a student or two), to ensure that the regular people at the Court will be angry at that person rather than at the Court leadership - they've got enough problems with the Forest attacking without the regular populace demanding answers from them and possibly in a "regime change" mood. |
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Post by Igniz on Sept 3, 2021 21:12:26 GMT
+1  ?  |
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Post by aline on Sept 3, 2021 22:59:50 GMT
The Court / the Shadow men have tried to steal Coyote's powers since before Annie was born. Most likely the plan was discussed and agreed at the highest level before going through it. The technology needed to do it must have been under development at least long before she came to the Court, considering the power stations were almost certainly experiments run to develop it. They didn't tell Annie or even Eglamore about what they were planning. Technically they could still blame Annie because evil bureaucrats don't usually balk at rewriting history for their benefit, but they'd be knowingly lying through their teeths if they did that. That would be on the level of blaming it on the weather. It would probably be more a basis of "if Annie hadn't freed Jeanne, Coyote wouldn't have seen it as an opportunity to manipulate Ysengrin into killing him and becoming Loup, and Loup wouldn't exist to threaten the Court". As of now, the Court doesn't know about that. Also I don't think that was as critical as that. Coyote started planning this years ago, long before Jeanne was freed. I'm not convinced Jeanne was ever capable of stopping Coyote if he really decided to go all out, after what we've witnessed in this chapter. He probably could have come up with alternative ways of dealing with her. She was a really angry ghost, but he's a god. |
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Post by drmemory on Sept 4, 2021 23:49:48 GMT
Point taken that the court may still try to blame Annie for everything, unjust though it would be. However, worst case, there are witnesses to what really happened, and I can't imagine they'll be willing to take the measures that would be required to suppress all of these witnesses. I mean both their current and their new protectors were there, and the new Rogat Orjak. Even if Aata and Shell and the faceless clump of shadow men are willing to toe the line, I have a hard time picturing Eglamore, Parley, and Cvet all going along with it, even though they work for the court. Frankly, despite his being a schemer with dubious ethics, I am not sure I can see Aata lying about what happened. I could envision him thinking that only non-powerful people lie. Loup, and whatever is left of Coyote and Ysengrin, certainly know, but no credibility would be given to them by the court. Likewise Renard, who may well be watching all of this via his familiar link. An aside - I'm expecting him to show up it if turns out that Annie is really in imminent danger of death. There are other possible witnesses - I wonder if Kat has found a way to watch Annie when she goes into danger yet? Then there is Dr. Doolittle er Paz, who may well have animal informants!
Also a number of entities that may be watching from the ether for their own reasons. Norns, Psychopomps, etc.
Of course all bets are off at this point, with Loup building a wall around himself (or whatever that was) and tearing into the court. Who knows who will live through this? Who knows what the court's reaction will be to these events? Not to mention Kat and her android army! Even if the the woodal wave (like a tidal wave, only wood) doesn't take out any humans or forest elves right away, it is certainly going to take out some robots. Which Kat may take offense at. I'm sure Tom gave us that plain black page just so we would all calm down and mellow out over the weekend. He'd never troll his audience, would he?  |
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If anything, it's worse - Aata came up with quite an elaborate plan over a period of time and didn't execute it until he believed it would work. I can't think of anything that Loup has done that is actually premeditated and intentionally malicious like that. Loup is mostly a creature of the moment, not a planner or schemer.
