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Post by saardvark on Aug 13, 2021 16:13:10 GMT
yeah, she isn't just burning the vines, she's vaporizing them. Direct to. gas - on contact. That's pretty freaking hot.... like surface-of-the-Sun hot (~5600 C). Annie glows an orange, which is appropriate for a K or early M star, which are a little cooler than our Sun (~4000-5000 C). Sounds reasonable.... Just in terms of blackbody radiation, ideal objects hot enough for their thermal radiation peak to shift all the way from infrared to orange are probably in the 1500-2500 C range. But a wood fire burns around 600 C at its core and still looks red/orange, though a good bonfire can get above 1000 C. We see red, orange, and yellow in the flames at lower temperatures because the radiation peak doesn't have to shift into the visible in order for some of the radiation to still be in the visible – in a campfire most of it's still infrared, which of course we can't see. We only see the photons from the hotter parts, but there are lots more that are invisible. We can feel those, though. There's also the fact that the roots are being generated by Loup's powers, so Annie's fire aura might just be disrupting the etheric energy that's making them. Evidence for this is the fact that we're not seeing any smoke or flames. When molten lava, hot enough to glow red, comes in contact with wood, there's plenty of smoke and flames, because of course not all the wood is in direct contact with the lava; some of it starts to burn before the lava even touches it (the heat can vaporize some of the volatile materials in the wood, too, and then ignite them, which can cause explosions). If this were just heat, bits of the roots not in direct contact with Annie's aura would still be getting charred or smoking (or even exploding) because of their proximity, and we don't see that. So I think we're in the realm of etheric physics, which the Court probably teaches classes on, but I haven't taken them, lazy me. With that in mind it's a bit difficult to really say how hot Annie's fire is right now. Peak of the blackbody emission (using Wein's law) is wavelength color. bb temperature [nm]. [K] 580 yellow. 5000 610. orange. 4750 660. red. 4400 (I picked sort of a "middle" wavelength for each color, so these are a bit approximate.) So I contend my color - to- temperature conversion was about right. I think the reason that fire or lava (~1500 K) appear orange-red is that a given temperature produces a blackbody spectrum with a wide range of wavelengths; most of the emission is in the IR and thus invisible to us - we can only see the red "hot end tail" of the light distribution. Of course, that could mean that Annie is much cooler as well, and we only see the "red" end of her light spectrum. But if she were "only" 1500K, I don't think she'd vaporize wood so quickly. Ultimately, though, I agree - there is lots of etheric physics at play here! The "wood" isn't acting like real wood would, in this situation. I missed E-Physics class as well, so I dunno what's going on....  |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 13, 2021 16:49:20 GMT
Peak of the blackbody emission (using Wein's law) is wavelength color. bb temperature [nm]. [K] 580 yellow. 5000 610. orange. 4750 660. red. 4400 (I picked sort of a "middle" wavelength for each color, so these are a bit approximate.) So I contend my color - to- temperature conversion was about right. I think the reason that fire or lava (~1500 K) appear orange-red is that a given temperature produces a blackbody spectrum with a wide range of wavelengths; most of the emission is in the IR and thus invisible to us - we can only see the red "hot end tail" of the light distribution. Of course, that could mean that Annie is much cooler as well, and we only see the "red" end of her light spectrum. But if she were "only" 1500K, I don't think she'd vaporize wood so quickly. Ultimately, though, I agree - there is lots of etheric physics at play here! The "wood" isn't acting like real wood would, in this situation. I missed E-Physics class as well, so I dunno what's going on.... I did the Wien calculation myself just now, and you're right. Trying to figure out where my error was ... I think the material I was looking at was showing me what the visible result was at different temperatures, rather than the actual peak. Looking at the page again, it seems we are seeing some flames where Annie's aura comes in contact with the roots. But no smoke. |
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Post by DonDueed on Aug 13, 2021 16:57:35 GMT
I wonder if any of Loup's thrashing and twisted expression is due to pain from his "roots" being chopped (Parley), beflowered (Aata), and vaporized (Annie)? Oh my goodness! I just realized -- we've seen Shell get beflowered right on screen! Who would have imagined Tom getting so... explicit? |
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Post by DonDueed on Aug 13, 2021 17:03:47 GMT
Just in terms of blackbody radiation, ideal objects hot enough for their thermal radiation peak to shift all the way from infrared to orange are probably in the 1500-2500 C range. But a wood fire burns around 600 C at its core and still looks red/orange, though a good bonfire can get above 1000 C. We see red, orange, and yellow in the flames at lower temperatures because the radiation peak doesn't have to shift into the visible in order for some of the radiation to still be in the visible – in a campfire most of it's still infrared, which of course we can't see. We only see the photons from the hotter parts, but there are lots more that are invisible. We can feel those, though. There's also the fact that the roots are being generated by Loup's powers, so Annie's fire aura might just be disrupting the etheric energy that's making them. Evidence for this is the fact that we're not seeing any smoke or flames. When molten lava, hot enough to glow red, comes in contact with wood, there's plenty of smoke and flames, because of course not all the wood is in direct contact with the lava; some of it starts to burn before the lava even touches it (the heat can vaporize some of the volatile materials in the wood, too, and then ignite them, which can cause explosions). If this were just heat, bits of the roots not in direct contact with Annie's aura would still be getting charred or smoking (or even exploding) because of their proximity, and we don't see that. So I think we're in the realm of etheric physics, which the Court probably teaches classes on, but I haven't taken them, lazy me. With that in mind it's a bit difficult to really say how hot Annie's fire is right now. Peak of the blackbody emission (using Wein's law) is wavelength color. bb temperature [nm]. [K] 580 yellow. 5000 610. orange. 4750 660. red. 4400 (I picked sort of a "middle" wavelength for each color, so these are a bit approximate.) So I contend my color - to- temperature conversion was about right. I think the reason that fire or lava (~1500 K) appear orange-red is that a given temperature produces a blackbody spectrum with a wide range of wavelengths; most of the emission is in the IR and thus invisible to us - we can only see the red "hot end tail" of the light distribution. Of course, that could mean that Annie is much cooler as well, and we only see the "red" end of her light spectrum. But if she were "only" 1500K, I don't think she'd vaporize wood so quickly. Ultimately, though, I agree - there is lots of etheric physics at play here! The "wood" isn't acting like real wood would, in this situation. I missed E-Physics class as well, so I dunno what's going on.... Aren't some of the colors we see in wood fires (and the like) attributable to chemistry, rather than pure blackbody radiation? |
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Post by saardvark on Aug 13, 2021 17:15:32 GMT
I wonder if any of Loup's thrashing and twisted expression is due to pain from his "roots" being chopped (Parley), beflowered (Aata), and vaporized (Annie)? Oh my goodness! I just realized -- we've seen Shell get beflowered right on screen! Who would have imagined Tom getting so... explicit? I think that's deflowered you were thinking of...  |
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Post by saardvark on Aug 13, 2021 17:17:47 GMT
Aren't some of the colors we see in wood fires (and the like) attributable to chemistry, rather than pure blackbody radiation? I'm sure you're right, but my chemistry isn't up to figuring out which is what...  |
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Post by saardvark on Aug 13, 2021 17:21:12 GMT
yeah, she isn't just burning the vines, she's vaporizing them. Direct to. gas - on contact. That's pretty freaking hot.... like surface-of-the-Sun hot (~5600 C). Annie glows an orange, which is appropriate for a K or early M star, which are a little cooler than our Sun (~4000-5000 C). Sounds reasonable.... So what you’re saying is she’s no longer a fire elemental, she’s a PLASMA elemental O: which suggests she could have an electrical aspect as well, if she worked at the charge separation... (!) (EDIT: since plasma is ionized gas, it can conduct electricity, be focused by magnets, etc) |
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Post by rylfrazier on Aug 13, 2021 18:24:33 GMT
I think that talking about how hot Annie's fire might be is fun, but in terms of the comic I would say that rather than being a certain temperature, the fire is powerful magic fire which represents the etheric element of fire, which generally represents pure energy and the power to transform - both the power to create and the power to destroy.
The "root magic" being employed would appear to me to be nature or earth magic, which generally represents growth, fertility, but also often represents things that Loup clearly is not, like stability and orderliness. In this case I would say this represents something like "uncontrolled growth" or "undirected growth"
All that is to say Annie is very clearly a powerful being, and it does seem like she is at least within shouting distance of Loup's power level - though that might all change if he fully directs his abilities on her, right now he seems to be generally flailing.
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Post by DonDueed on Aug 13, 2021 19:16:13 GMT
Oh my goodness! I just realized -- we've seen Shell get beflowered right on screen! Who would have imagined Tom getting so... explicit? I think that's deflowered you were thinking of... Well, I'm pretty sure there were flowers involved somehow. |
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Post by todd on Aug 13, 2021 23:52:21 GMT
Standing up, she's gone all fiery. Her hair is loose, and some of her clothes look like they're on fire. Does this mean that her hairclips have been destroyed, and will she have burns in her clothes (or burn them off) by the time this is over? Or will these things survive because Ether? Tom will probably ensure that Annie's clothes survive, given that he's a gentleman who wouldn't want to embarrass a young girl in that way and does want "Gunnerkrigg Court" to be "all ages". |
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Post by drmemory on Aug 14, 2021 0:43:08 GMT
I think that's deflowered you were thinking of... Well, I'm pretty sure there were flowers involved somehow. I'm a bit surprised he's showing us how freaking HOT Annie is too! *ducks*
On a more serious note, anyone else worried about Aata seeing how powerful double-Annie is? I wonder what kind of lengths he'll be willing to go to steal HER power? Surely he knows that just stealing Coyote's wouldn't "free humanity from the tyranny of the ether", as others have that sort of power as well... Including himself.
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Post by maxptc on Aug 14, 2021 2:18:50 GMT
Annie was able to destroy Ysengrins tree magic. Considering that is the same tree power Loup is using, and Annie now has way more power now, and Loup is unaware of that since he didn't even know she was now single, this seems like a logical progression. Loup's mad, lashing out with his go to power, which Annie is ready for. Atta has also shown that he is very powerful. I feel like we got a spoiler from Coyete about how the conflict ends, which got me thinkng that the Court is and has been powerful enough to resist Loup or even Coyete, and since I don't think that is a surprise to Coyete, I rabbit holed a bit. If the Court wanted or even could be convinced to want Coyete dead, he would have/could have just included them in his plan to die. I still suspect he has a really long con that isn't as simple as his death going on, but maybe the reason he set this whole situation up is because doing all this to Annie is literally one of his only chances to die. Would add some logic as to why he loved Surma and Annie so much, he just really likes people who could convincably progress his death.
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Post by warrl on Aug 15, 2021 0:42:42 GMT
When addressing someone directly, I believe it is customary in British schools that students are called by their last name by teachers and other students except their friends. And when it comes to the nobility, and the fact that many of them have multiple titles, it isn't that simple. Courtesy titles. If a particular noble has multiple titles, whoever's first in line to inherit them gets the courtesy title "Lord/Lady <the father's second-highest-status title>", the next in line gets the next highest ranking title, and so on. The leftovers, after the father has run out of noble titles get "Lord/Lady" followed by the surname. In school they'll be referred to by that courtesy title, without the honorific most of the time. So that's what their friends will refer to them as. And if the holder of a courtesy title dies, everyone further down the line shifts up - and changes their courtesy title. So their old friends refer to them by their old courtesy title, and their new friends by their new one. And prior to modern medicine it was commonplace for this to happen three or four times... |
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Post by Tenjen on Aug 15, 2021 12:09:36 GMT
Eglamore's trust aand confidence in Annie really shines here
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 16, 2021 14:54:19 GMT
Aren't some of the colors we see in wood fires (and the like) attributable to chemistry, rather than pure blackbody radiation? I would say you're right – light from the heart of a fire is from blackbody radiation, but some light from the flames comes from fluorescence, which causes blue, green, yellow, pink, etc. flames when you burn different substances. As for whether fluorescence is physics or chemistry, I think both fields study it. |
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Post by warrl on Aug 17, 2021 17:46:58 GMT
As for whether fluorescence is physics or chemistry ... the answer is "yes, both." |
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Post by saardvark on Aug 17, 2021 21:50:32 GMT
As for whether fluorescence is physics or chemistry ... the answer is "yes, both." it's often different things fluorescing in each subject - bioluminescence is perhaps more chemistry, and a nebula's plasma fluorescing in the light of a hot star is more physics. But there's a lot of overlap and the division is pretty blurry! |
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Post by rabbit on Aug 17, 2021 22:10:13 GMT
Oh my goodness! I just realized -- we've seen Shell get beflowered right on screen! Who would have imagined Tom getting so... explicit? I think that's deflowered you were thinking of... Be- or or De-, all that flowering is going to require a lot of stamen-a |
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Post by saardvark on Aug 17, 2021 22:19:36 GMT
I think that's deflowered you were thinking of... Be- or or De-, all that flowering is going to require a lot of stamen-a ugh, bad punny rabbit! ye should be pistil-whipped! (not really, I'm totally non-violent...  ) |
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Post by drmemory on Aug 18, 2021 0:24:23 GMT
I wonder what it would be like if those flowers weren't just temporary things that will fall off after Shell is healed? Would she have to keep her tummy exposed to air and light? Water herself?
Sorry, but it's not my fault - Tom planted the seeds!
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 18, 2021 12:15:22 GMT
As for whether fluorescence is physics or chemistry ... the answer is "yes, both." Chemistry is just applied physics. |
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Post by saardvark on Aug 18, 2021 12:20:50 GMT
... the answer is "yes, both." Chemistry is just applied physics. (Them's probably fightin' words in some circles....) |
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 18, 2021 12:25:38 GMT
Chemistry is just applied physics. (Them's probably fightin' words in some circles....) Let's say I am of the opinion that all natural sciences can be brought down applied physics in the end. Which doesn't invalidate them of course.
Right now I was mostly thinking of this: |
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