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Post by justcurious on Jun 9, 2021 7:52:01 GMT
I'm guessing that Coyote wanted to experience death but not stay dead. We knows that Loup will die but I am guessing that this will involve bringing Coyote and Ysegrin back from the dead. Is the Coyote Tooth's function to separate them? If so then the fusing of Coyote and Ysengrin into Loup provides a counterpoint to the splitting of Antimony. Are we about to see the end of Loup?
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 9, 2021 8:24:00 GMT
That is a very popular theory around here. My main problem with it is that a) Annie normally doesn't carry the Tooth around with her, and b) Annie is not the type to swing blades at anyone. She has never used the Tooth herself except for testing its sharpness, and the one time she gave it to someone else was somewhat traumatic.
I would also like to remind the esteemed audience that for years people expected the Tooth's function were to be the only thing that can cut Jones.
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V
Full Member
I just think it's a pity that she never wore these again.
Posts: 168
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Post by V on Jun 9, 2021 10:16:23 GMT
I wouldn't imagine Annie just slashing with the knife at anyone, but she has shown affinity to sharp tools used on bodies with precise intent. The splitting of Loup could be done even consensually. I can see Loup laying down comfortably, Annie putting on her goggles, stretching her fingers and, for added geek points, driving the blade Banach-Tarski style :-)
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Post by agasa on Jun 9, 2021 11:19:56 GMT
To cut through the Court's bullcrap, obviously.
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Post by descoladavirus on Jun 9, 2021 11:20:02 GMT
Coyote being Coyote he could have given it to her just to inspire a little chaos and impress upon her his power.
I guess splitting him and Ysengrin apart from Loup is as possible as anything else when it comes to a trickster god created from the mind of man.
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Post by speedwell on Jun 9, 2021 16:35:38 GMT
Don't forget who around here is used to wielding scalpels, folks.
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Post by DonDueed on Jun 9, 2021 23:26:08 GMT
The purpose? To chew his food, of course.
Sheesh, the things people go on about around here...
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Post by todd on Jun 9, 2021 23:47:31 GMT
It recently struck me that (assuming Coyote genuinely cares about Gillitie Wood and wants it to thrive) Coyote has one strong reason to ensure he comes back to life at the end of Loup's thread.
After the recent outbreak of serious trouble with Gillitie Wood, it'd be tempting for the Court to decide, once it disposes of Loup, to deal with that forest once and for all, to ensure that it and its inhabitants can no longer threaten them again. If Coyote returns, then he can protect the Forest from them - and even renew his promise to leave them alone (stressing that the attack was all Loup's idea, not his own - and the part of Loup it originated from was the Ysengrin part) - ensuring that the Court won't mount reprisals against Gillitie Wood and its residents.
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Post by maxptc on Jun 10, 2021 0:10:51 GMT
I personally figure its purpose was to get Shadow into 3d, and then be a red herring that holds attention over multiple storylines.
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Post by silicondream on Jun 10, 2021 2:56:24 GMT
Its purpose is to allow one to discriminate. But, 'struth, it can also be divisive. 'tis an I-Tooth, no?
heh. Loup's not gonna die.
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Post by Gemminie on Jun 10, 2021 3:23:21 GMT
The tooth is most assuredly one of Coyote's powers separated from himself so Loup wouldn't have it. And who's to say it doesn't contain some locked-away memories as well?
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Post by george on Jun 10, 2021 5:15:41 GMT
my guess, to kill Jones
"it could cut the very earth" Jones is a rock
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Post by speedwell on Jun 10, 2021 7:28:14 GMT
my guess, to kill Jones "it could cut the very earth" Jones is a rock Jones isn't the only thing that is earthen, or a rock. Personally I think it is likely to restore the Annan river gorge, among other things.
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Post by todd on Jun 10, 2021 12:37:46 GMT
Jones isn't the only thing that is earthen, or a rock. Personally I think it is likely to restore the Annan river gorge, among other things. I don't know about bringing the gorge back; it had managed to prevent the two sides from fighting each other directly, but it probably also encouraged a spirit of division and mistrust which helped make things worse. Annie would probably want a real solution to the problem - Court and Forest finding a way to live as neighbors harmoniously - rather than just physically restraining them from getting at each other. Still, as I mentioned in another thread, it'd be tempting to see her using the tooth to cut through *something*, thanks to her surname being "Carver". (And now I'm wondering whether Tom had planned whatever she'd use the Tooth for from the very start, since her last name appeared on the very first page.)
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Post by DonDueed on Jun 10, 2021 16:00:30 GMT
Jones isn't the only thing that is earthen, or a rock. Personally I think it is likely to restore the Annan river gorge, among other things. I don't know about bringing the gorge back; it had managed to prevent the two sides from fighting each other directly, but it probably also encouraged a spirit of division and mistrust which helped make things worse. Annie would probably want a real solution to the problem - Court and Forest finding a way to live as neighbors harmoniously - rather than just physically restraining them from getting at each other. Still, as I mentioned in another thread, it'd be tempting to see her using the tooth to cut through *something*, thanks to her surname being "Carver". (And now I'm wondering whether Tom had planned whatever she'd use the Tooth for from the very start, since her last name appeared on the very first page.) Tom has stated (in his talk at Google(?)) that he has known from the beginning where the story of GC was going, although he didn't know exactly how long it would take to get there or all the twists and turns along the way.
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Post by Gemminie on Jun 10, 2021 16:32:37 GMT
my guess, to kill Jones "it could cut the very earth" Jones is a rock Jones isn't the only thing that is earthen, or a rock. Personally I think it is likely to restore the Annan river gorge, among other things. One of my Unanswered Questions is whether the tooth/dagger can affect Jones. It seems like an irresistible force/immovable object situation. We may never find out (and I'd be OK with that, as Jones and Coyote aren't really set up as opponents in any main story arc sense). I'm guessing that it contains the power that Coyote used to create the Annan Waters, and that Coyote wanted Loup not to have that power nor to know where it had gone (nor, possibly, to know that it had ever existed). What confuses me about this speculation is that Coyote cut the earth with his claw, not his tooth, to create the Annan gorge. The symbolism's off. Not that it immediately disqualifies this speculation, but it's a strike against it. There are powers that Coyote didn't want Loup to have, at least at first; Renard's possession power is one of them. Perhaps this earth-cutting power is another. Are there others hidden away somewhere? Perhaps one's in the lake water? What would Coyote be planning that would require Annie, and not Loup, to be able to cut the earth? Well, here's one thought. What if the earth-cutting power actually works both ways and it can also rebind the earth? Loup closed the Annan Waters gorge, but there's still an uneven seam there, a definite border. The color of the grass is different from one side to the other. He closed the rift, but he didn't heal it. Now why shouldn't Loup have the power to open and close such rifts? He'd use it as an offensive tactic – opening rifts to block the Court, sealing them to allow himself and his minions to attack. As a medium, Annie is more likely to use such a power to bring Forest and Court closer together.
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 10, 2021 16:46:03 GMT
Jones isn't the only thing that is earthen, or a rock. Personally I think it is likely to restore the Annan river gorge, among other things. One of my Unanswered Questions is whether the tooth/dagger can affect Jones. It seems like an irresistible force/immovable object situation. We may never find out (and I'd be OK with that, as Jones and Coyote aren't really set up as opponents in any main story arc sense). I'm guessing that it contains the power that Coyote used to create the Annan Waters, and that Coyote wanted Loup not to have that power nor to know where it had gone (nor, possibly, to know that it had ever existed). What confuses me about this speculation is that Coyote cut the earth with his claw, not his tooth, to create the Annan gorge. The symbolism's off. Not that it immediately disqualifies this speculation, but it's a strike against it. There are powers that Coyote didn't want Loup to have, at least at first; Renard's possession power is one of them. Perhaps this earth-cutting power is another. Are there others hidden away somewhere? Perhaps one's in the lake water? [...] One possible hint is Coyote's Goose bone apparition telling Loup he would be "powerful enough to shape this world" when all gifts are returned. It could be that Coyote meant it in a very literal sense - that one, or the combination, of all the things he gave away is literally the power to shape the Earth, as he demonstrated when he created a mighty ravine with a mere scratch of his claw.
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Post by Gemminie on Jun 10, 2021 17:02:15 GMT
One possible hint is Coyote's Goose bone apparition telling Loup he would be "powerful enough to shape this world" when all gifts are returned. It could be that Coyote meant it in a very literal sense - that one, or the combination, of all the things he gave away is literally the power to shape the Earth, as he demonstrated when he created a mighty ravine with a mere scratch of his claw. Hmm, quite possible. But Loup has already closed the gorge, so he may have some of that power already. Then I'm going to contradict myself: he didn't cause the earth to simply seal up; he used control of plants (via extremely fast growth and manipulation of tree roots) to do it. And there's still a visible dividing line there. He didn't cause the rift to cease to exist; he just stitched it together. Quick and dirty earth patch. There I Fixed It. So Loup has only limited Earth-shaping abilities now, by using other powers to imperfectly mimic them.
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 10, 2021 22:57:39 GMT
One possible hint is Coyote's Goose bone apparition telling Loup he would be "powerful enough to shape this world" when all gifts are returned. It could be that Coyote meant it in a very literal sense - that one, or the combination, of all the things he gave away is literally the power to shape the Earth, as he demonstrated when he created a mighty ravine with a mere scratch of his claw. Hmm, quite possible. But Loup has already closed the gorge, so he may have some of that power already. Then I'm going to contradict myself: he didn't cause the earth to simply seal up; he used control of plants (via extremely fast growth and manipulation of tree roots) to do it. And there's still a visible dividing line there. He didn't cause the rift to cease to exist; he just stitched it together. Quick and dirty earth patch. There I Fixed It. So Loup has only limited Earth-shaping abilities now, by using other powers to imperfectly mimic them. Yes, what he did use was the power over the trees that was in Ysengrin's possession, and which Loup generally seems to enjoy using.
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Post by warrl on Jun 11, 2021 1:58:25 GMT
Tom has stated (in his talk at Google(?)) that he has known from the beginning where the story of GC was going, although he didn't know exactly how long it would take to get there or all the twists and turns along the way. Sounds like the way I usually write - except that sometimes where the story is going gets changed a bit.
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Post by speedwell on Jun 11, 2021 8:16:05 GMT
There is a second major rift in the comic that is normally pretty taken-for-granted: the divide between what is "in" the (possibly pocket-dimensional) Court/Forest and what is "outside". I expect this to be removed or destroyed at some point in a catastrophic dissolution of the physical ability to take advantage of etheric powers, sort of like the "magic then but not magic now" trope.
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Post by todd on Jun 11, 2021 12:47:46 GMT
There is a second major rift in the comic that is normally pretty taken-for-granted: the divide between what is "in" the (possibly pocket-dimensional) Court/Forest and what is "outside". I expect this to be removed or destroyed at some point in a catastrophic dissolution of the physical ability to take advantage of etheric powers, sort of like the "magic then but not magic now" trope. A "magic goes away"-type ending? I've wondered myself if that might be how the story ends, especially since we've seen it in other fantasy series (such as "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Chronicles of Prydain"). Though one possible consolation: it might free Annie from the family cycle, presumably changing her into an ordinary human without fire elemental abilities and who'd thus not have to die through passing her life force on to her daughter.
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Post by DonDueed on Jun 11, 2021 14:19:36 GMT
There is a second major rift in the comic that is normally pretty taken-for-granted: the divide between what is "in" the (possibly pocket-dimensional) Court/Forest and what is "outside". I expect this to be removed or destroyed at some point in a catastrophic dissolution of the physical ability to take advantage of etheric powers, sort of like the "magic then but not magic now" trope. Of course, the opposite could happen as well: that the magical/ethereal elements of the Forest and Court are revealed to the wider world, perhaps with the Omega Project producing the technology capable of keeping things safely under control.
Edit: Instead of "Magic Goes Away", perhaps this one could be "Magic Goes Viral"...
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 11, 2021 15:08:18 GMT
There is a second major rift in the comic that is normally pretty taken-for-granted: the divide between what is "in" the (possibly pocket-dimensional) Court/Forest and what is "outside". I expect this to be removed or destroyed at some point in a catastrophic dissolution of the physical ability to take advantage of etheric powers, sort of like the "magic then but not magic now" trope. A "magic goes away"-type ending? I've wondered myself if that might be how the story ends, especially since we've seen it in other fantasy series (such as "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Chronicles of Prydain"). Though one possible consolation: it might free Annie from the family cycle, presumably changing her into an ordinary human without fire elemental abilities and who'd thus not have to die through passing her life force on to her daughter. Basically the end of Final Fantasy 6, then?
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Post by speedwell on Jun 11, 2021 15:18:28 GMT
Yeah, sure, Saslamel gets drunk off his stone tush on pulque and starts handing blank contracts to everyone as party favours (OK, I blame it being Friday.) No seriously, we need to look at this with half an eye toward alchemy. The end of the transmutation leads either to the Philosopher's Stone, or to the scammer making off in the night with all the expensive alembics, raw materials, and "seed gold" furnished to him by his wealthy mark.
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Post by Gemminie on Jun 11, 2021 16:48:03 GMT
There is a second major rift in the comic that is normally pretty taken-for-granted: the divide between what is "in" the (possibly pocket-dimensional) Court/Forest and what is "outside". I expect this to be removed or destroyed at some point in a catastrophic dissolution of the physical ability to take advantage of etheric powers, sort of like the "magic then but not magic now" trope. What about the other extreme, though – suppose the rift becomes complete, and the Court (or the Court/Forest area that used to be all Forest way back when) completely splits off from the rest of reality, forming its own separate universe? It's a sorta-pocket-dimension right now, but what if it became a true pocket dimension? And our main characters would have to decide whether to go with them or stay anchored to the mundane world. Or to stay in the Forest, if the Court tried to sever itself from what remains of the Forest instead. Perhaps they want a guaranteed wall of protection from Coyote/Loup/etc., which becoming a separate dimension from the Forest would probably accomplish.
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Post by warrl on Jun 11, 2021 22:55:08 GMT
Of course, the opposite could happen as well: that the magical/ethereal elements of the Forest and Court are revealed to the wider world, perhaps with the Omega Project producing the technology capable of keeping things safely under control. Edit: Instead of "Magic Goes Away", perhaps this one could be "Magic Goes Viral"... Something in that very-general direction has begun in El Goonish Shive. (Actually, it has happened - but everyone, including the Will of Magic, is still trying to figure out what even the short-term consequences are.) And in Piers Anthony's trilogy that begins with Split Infinity, the magical and non-magical universes merged and then split again. I'd love to see the non-magic physicists explain that one...
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Post by todd on Jun 11, 2021 23:56:26 GMT
The end of the transmutation leads either to the Philosopher's Stone, or to the scammer making off in the night with all the expensive alembics, raw materials, and "seed gold" furnished to him by his wealthy mark. Probably the former in this case; the most likely candidates for the alchemist in the comic are Kat (who's definitely honest) and the Court (who've engaged in a lot of morally questionable - to put it mildly - behavior, but who genuinely appear to be achieving a grand goal instead of trying to rip someone off).
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Post by speedwell on Jun 12, 2021 0:05:12 GMT
The end of the transmutation leads either to the Philosopher's Stone, or to the scammer making off in the night with all the expensive alembics, raw materials, and "seed gold" furnished to him by his wealthy mark. Probably the former in this case; the most likely candidates for the alchemist in the comic are Kat (who's definitely honest) and the Court (who've engaged in a lot of morally questionable - to put it mildly - behavior, but who genuinely appear to be achieving a grand goal instead of trying to rip someone off). I was thinking more of Tom himself, haha. But I suppose the third, proper, way this could fall out is according to the method of the spagyricist.
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Post by todd on Jun 12, 2021 0:53:30 GMT
I was thinking more of Tom himself, haha. But I suppose the third, proper, way this could fall out is according to the method of the spagyricist. What's a spacyricist?
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