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Post by Gemminie on Jun 7, 2021 15:58:21 GMT
Annie tries to thank Aata, but he cuts her off and turns straight to Sir Eglamore. I thought she was going to say, "That's not [the same vial/all the water]" or some such. I hadn't thought of that. saardvark did, though. But my question would then be, how would Annie know it wasn't the same vial, or all the water? Maybe she can sense it ethereally, or maybe she's better at memorizing the shapes/sizes of objects she's only seen fleetingly, and not at all recently, than I am. Whatever the Court's plan is, it doesn't involve any two-way communication between Annie and the Shadow Men. |
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Post by ohthatone on Jun 7, 2021 16:42:27 GMT
My first thought is it's a smaller version of the ether collecting station, possibly a trap for loup.
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Kuraimizu
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Master Librarian
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Post by Kuraimizu on Jun 7, 2021 17:12:23 GMT
hmm,based off www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2477www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2226www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2297www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1820the vial has been changed, meaning parts of the full memory might be missing. but that might be why the court are coming along, to see if a "god" can be tricked and they might have the original bottle and cork in one of their briefcases. Also I don't think Loup ever saw a glimpse of the Court's Omega project www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2221www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2224as Reynardine was next to Kat's technology at the time www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2235I wonder if the powerful device Loup saw actually belonged to Kat, and not the court. You know, Anja was mad about the robots using her tech to shield the Court, and the Court said it had no idea who did that. The only person I can think of is Kat, who would have to do so retroactively. So regardless of the Court's plan, they might also have robot God Kats help and technology to resist Loup, even if they aren't aware of it, which significantly increases the Court's odds. It just seems like they are outmatched but I really think they might come out stronger then everyone expects. Well time travel has been verified, and we know Kat has access to it. could have been Kat or Anja, in the future sending a module back in time with instructions for the robots to duplicate and install the device into all robots Aata's really reminding me of Coyote here. Friendly toward everyone, but doesn't actually value anyone else's feelings. I actually wonder if Aata is a clone of Coyote. Hiding in the court as a third view, to keep watch, and manipulate things from the background. as long as it's not fully coyote, as long as it has few of his powers, and only has some of his memories, it can be argued it is not coyote, and can then work with or manipulate the court, without breaking the original agreement of non-interference. We do know Coyote can change shape into humanoid forms www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=665though his hair seems to be a telltale sign of his original form www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=666I could see coyote hiding a larger piece of himself changed to look like a human, so he could have more influence in the court, or keep watch on the court. and he would love the action of being part of security and black operations after all it's very odd that the leader of the court's security and black ops would himself be chasing after jack www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=691www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=692when he would usually delegate that job to younger more fit employees. Bald, Fat, and Short, would be the perfect disguise for a clone or piece of Coyote, as nobody would ever accuse them of being a spy for the forest. |
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Post by rylfrazier on Jun 7, 2021 17:29:07 GMT
I have absolutely no idea what's going to happen next but I'm excited to find out.
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Post by chrisjenl on Jun 7, 2021 17:34:19 GMT
larger question) what was Annie about to say? that's not the Lake Water? that's not all the Lake Water? I still think that Annie was saying Thanks and not let her interrupt or going to Loop with a part or a fake Lake water. Al was it only to protect Parley against a angry Loop. |
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Post by saardvark on Jun 7, 2021 18:14:18 GMT
I agree. Im sure its been speculated on before, but three possibilities come to mind: 1) Kat's computer 2) the green arrow 3) Kat herself (as Mecha-goddess) |
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 7, 2021 18:25:56 GMT
Maybe this is all part of Coyote's plan. One way or another. Quite possible. Perhaps the aftereffects of destroying the Omega project and/or having it used on him are what will cause Loup to go back to being Coyote and Ysengrin. I thought this part is fairly obvious: that's the purpose of tooth-knife. |
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Post by silicondream on Jun 7, 2021 18:31:06 GMT
Perhaps the aftereffects of destroying the Omega project and/or having it used on him are what will cause Loup to go back to being Coyote and Ysengrin. ( Hopefully Ysengrin will return as well, but it's probably not guaranteed.) I'm thinking Coyote supports the Omega project. He's always said the Court is "Man's attempt to become God," and he's apparently always been fine with the Court anyway. And he wanted Renard and Ysengrin to become proper Gods. I bet he'd love Annie to be one too. Here's the thing--killing and powerdraining Coyote is probably not an actual inconvenience for him. Killing him obviously hasn't stopped him from popping out of Loup's head and acting exactly like the Coyote we've always known. And since he got his powers in the first place simply by deciding he ought to have them, what does he care if you take them away? I'm pretty sure he could wish himself back to omnipotence anytime he feels like it. 0.001% of infinity is still infinity, sort of thing. That's why he's always been so eager to make other creatures into gods; he craves the novelty of having someone else be his equal or even his superior. The trouble is, when he tries to give his powers to other creatures, they just become him. Once the lake and the dead goose and the sad goose wife remember how to be Coyote, they no longer exist and only Coyote is left. Loup is his best attempt so far, but Loup's not entirely satisfactory because he's still mostly Coyote. So let the Court try! If they achieve Omeganess but retain their individuality, then yay, new divine playmate(s). And if they fail...well, I expect to see an Aata with at least one dog ear and a much snazzier color scheme. (While I'm speculating, I also don't think Loup's gonna die anytime soon. Coyote said he'd die once he figures out Coyote's entire scheme, but the loophole there is that no one ever does that. Loup could basically live forever while uncovering more and more and more of the infinite complexity that is Coyote. Plus, Loup is just a baby psychologically, and what do we do with babies? Help them grow up! I'm betting a matured Loup will simply be Ysengrin reborn: stronger, smarter, kinder.) |
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Post by fia on Jun 7, 2021 19:37:33 GMT
I wonder what the Court knows about what Annie knows about the Omega device.
I'm sure they know she has asked about it before. Don't have time now to look up all the references to the Omega device, but there aren't that many
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Post by mochakimono on Jun 7, 2021 20:10:24 GMT
The first panel gave me a jarring sensation with how much it looked like a funeral. I mistook the dongles for gravestones, and everyone standing around in black suits... I thought I'd missed a page where someone had died, haha
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V
Full Member
I just think it's a pity that she never wore these again.
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Post by V on Jun 7, 2021 20:40:54 GMT
I wonder what the Court knows about what Annie knows about the Omega device. I'm sure they know she has asked about it before. Don't have time now to look up all the references to the Omega device, but there aren't that many I'm pretty certain Annie only ever openly asked George (on-screen). And she, while technically a Court employee by then, does not look like the kind of person to even remember being asked just some random thing she did not understand. Such things must happen quite regularly around Annie :-) Technically, then there's this which may be read like Annie was told about Omega by a Court employee. But I don't think that's the case, just Tom filling the details for us. The story as narrated most likely did not mention any side project at all, as it works just as well if the time spent by the two young people together was filled by the official purpose of the expedition. |
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Post by novia on Jun 7, 2021 22:42:17 GMT
larger question) what was Annie about to say? that's not the Lake Water? that's not all the Lake Water? That's a nice earring |
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Post by alevice on Jun 7, 2021 22:57:38 GMT
I'm more interested in what those shrine-looking things are in the first couple of panels. Protective warding? TBH i thought it was a graveyard |
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Post by Runningflame on Jun 8, 2021 0:06:45 GMT
Maybe Smitty and Idra are Eglamore's backup plan(s). Somehow I read this as, "Maybe Smitty and Idra are in Eglamore's backpack," which was a disturbingly hilarious mental image. If as I suspect it's a mean to manipulate the ether, it's more than just a weapon. But it would still be incredibly useful to counter the powers of a creature like Loup. Whatever the Court is doing it's highly likely it can be wielded in destructive ways. As the Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries remind us, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a really big gun."I thought she was going to say, "That's not [the same vial/all the water]" or some such. Welcome to the forum. That was my first thought too, but I'm now thinking she was just saying "Thank you". The ambiguities of English spelling strike again. Is Annie saying "ðæ-" or "θæ̃-"? And Aata is bald, so there's no hair to give him away! Coincidence? Hmmm... |
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Post by todd on Jun 8, 2021 1:06:39 GMT
I agree. Im sure its been speculated on before, but three possibilities come to mind: 1) Kat's computer 2) the green arrow 3) Kat herself (as Mecha-goddess) We do know that the Omega Device is making its presence felt to both Loup and Zimmy from "Behind It All". So, unless the Omega Device is Kat all along (which the Court presumably doesn't realize), it must have its own role to play. (If Kat really is the Omega Device, it must be happening without the Court realizing it. As far as we can tell, it hasn't been monitoring her - which would be odd if she's the culmination of its work. And it'll probably be disappointed - assuming that the Court had plans for the Omega Device beyond understanding the ether scientifically - to discover that the main beneficiaries of their crowning achievement are the robots, whom the Court looks down on as second-class citizens - assuming it counts them as citizens at all.) |
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Post by maxptc on Jun 8, 2021 1:08:38 GMT
I wonder what the Court knows about what Annie knows about the Omega device. I'm sure they know she has asked about it before. Don't have time now to look up all the references to the Omega device, but there aren't that many I'm pretty certain Annie only ever openly asked George (on-screen). And she, while technically a Court employee by then, does not look like the kind of person to even remember being asked just some random thing she did not understand. Such things must happen quite regularly around Annie :-) Technically, then there's this which may be read like Annie was told about Omega by a Court employee. But I don't think that's the case, just Tom filling the details for us. The story as narrated most likely did not mention any side project at all, as it works just as well if the time spent by the two young people together was filled by the official purpose of the expedition. That's a great point about the story of Annie's parents. How could Anja have know and verbally explained that level of detail, even if Tony or Surma told her virtually everything? I think we saw what really happened at that time as it happened, but Annie and Kat just got a story. Wonder what the story the girls heard was like. Even so, the Court still has a way of knowing Annie knows about the Omega device, George. Not that I don't trust George or think she recalls the question, I think that conversation could have been spied on. It was in a Court cafeteria, a good place to listen in on people, and we know the Court loves spying. |
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Post by crater on Jun 8, 2021 1:37:30 GMT
Why does everyone think giving demon coyote item was a good idea again?
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Post by silicondream on Jun 8, 2021 6:12:43 GMT
I'm pretty certain Annie only ever openly asked George (on-screen). And she, while technically a Court employee by then, does not look like the kind of person to even remember being asked just some random thing she did not understand. Such things must happen quite regularly around Annie :-) Technically, then there's this which may be read like Annie was told about Omega by a Court employee. But I don't think that's the case, just Tom filling the details for us. The story as narrated most likely did not mention any side project at all, as it works just as well if the time spent by the two young people together was filled by the official purpose of the expedition. That's a great point about the story of Annie's parents. How could Anja have know and verbally explained that level of detail, even if Tony or Surma told her virtually everything? Who says she did it verbally? Lady's got a blinker stone. |
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Kuraimizu
Full Member
Master Librarian
Posts: 177
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Post by Kuraimizu on Jun 8, 2021 8:49:03 GMT
The main reason Ysengrin could never control the trees
and why loup can't control the forest could be two fold.
1. Coyote has never given someone a perfect power, any borrowed power has always had a flaw
2. Ysengrin always considered himself weaker, and lesser compared to coyote
compounded by the fact coyote always insulted ysengrin and put him down
and that Ysengrin and Reynardine had mortal bodies.
where it seems that coyote doesn't have a mortal body, but manifests himself from what ever is nearby.
coyote is solely an etheric being, that takes on a physical form to interact with people.
but Ysengrin sees his body as his own, and sees it growing old and weaker.
instead of making himself a new younger body from the trees for his etheric soul to inhabit
he stays inside to his old and aging body, and never leaves it.
He sees himself as weak and therefor he is weak.
Reynardine on the other hand while he gained a power from coyote with a flaw
that it would kill any foreign body he inhabited, but in addition
he could inhabit any body as long as it had what appeared to be eyes,
allowing him to inhabit dolls and golems. if he had been smarter,
Reynardine should have requested a large humanoid shaped doll be made for him.
Surma probably would have been fine in making it herself.
if he carved eyes onto a wall, he could probably inhabit a building
or even make himself a body of cement or stone
If loup could learn the lesson Ysengrin never could.
if he fused coyotes powers not into the body of Ysengrin
but into Ysengrin's etheric soul, they truely would become someone new.
but as long as Loup retains the Body of ysengrin he will never have what he wants.
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Post by ohthatone on Jun 8, 2021 11:52:02 GMT
... or even make himself a body of cement or stone If loup could learn the lesson Ysengrin never could. if he fused coyotes powers not into the body of Ysengrin... I know its kind of off topic here but if rey possessed Jones would it kill her? |
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 8, 2021 12:24:16 GMT
he could inhabit any body as long as it had what appeared to be eyes, allowing him to inhabit dolls and golems. if he had been smarter, Reynardine should have requested a large humanoid shaped doll be made for him. Surma probably would have been fine in making it herself. As soon as he jumps into a body that is someone's possession, he comes under that person's power. He only jumped into the wolf toy because the alternative was dying. Had he requested an artificial humanoid body, though, I could see the Court ordering one to be made and falsely claiming it was without ownership. As soon as he enters the artificial body, he is under the control of whoever owns the body. That would have been the smarter move for the Court. But of course they didn't know anything about the "rules" governing the possession power. |
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Post by maxptc on Jun 8, 2021 13:04:31 GMT
That's a great point about the story of Annie's parents. How could Anja have know and verbally explained that level of detail, even if Tony or Surma told her virtually everything? Who says she did it verbally? Lady's got a blinker stone. Those don't let you make illustrations/illusions, and even if they now do Kat would still have just seen a children's puppet show. |
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Post by ohthatone on Jun 8, 2021 13:18:30 GMT
Who says she did it verbally? Lady's got a blinker stone. Those don't let you make illustrations/illusions, and even if they now do Kat would still have just seen a children's puppet show. Surma and Tony: a love story as told by Edgar Bergen |
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Post by todd on Jun 8, 2021 13:35:00 GMT
I think it's just a storytelling convention that we shouldn't worry over. The webcomic presents the same thing on a larger scale; it began with Annie narrating it (that dropped out after the middle of Chapter Fifteen, occasionally surfacing such as with the chapter where Annie and Donald were sending the medical supplies to Anthony and the "Evac" chapter), but had several scenes that Annie was not present at and could not have known about (even chapters told from the perspective of other characters, such as "Sky Watcher and the Angel").
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Post by DonDueed on Jun 8, 2021 13:57:30 GMT
Maybe this is all part of Coyote's plan. One way or another. Quite possible. The thing about Coyote's plan is, no matter what happens, it was part of Coyote's plan. |
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Post by fia on Jun 8, 2021 14:52:34 GMT
I'm pretty certain Annie only ever openly asked George (on-screen). And she, while technically a Court employee by then, does not look like the kind of person to even remember being asked just some random thing she did not understand. Such things must happen quite regularly around Annie :-) Technically, then there's this which may be read like Annie was told about Omega by a Court employee. But I don't think that's the case, just Tom filling the details for us. The story as narrated most likely did not mention any side project at all, as it works just as well if the time spent by the two young people together was filled by the official purpose of the expedition. Even so, the Court still has a way of knowing Annie knows about the Omega device, George. Not that I don't trust George or think she recalls the question, I think that conversation could have been spied on. It was in a Court cafeteria, a good place to listen in on people, and we know the Court loves spying. We know tons of robots may be working for the Shadow Men (or the Court) who are doing lots of spying. I think Annie mentioning it to Parley may well be more than enough. |
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Post by fia on Jun 8, 2021 15:10:54 GMT
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Post by Gemminie on Jun 8, 2021 16:31:13 GMT
That's a great point about the story of Annie's parents. How could Anja have know and verbally explained that level of detail, even if Tony or Surma told her virtually everything? Who says she did it verbally? Lady's got a blinker stone. What's the blinker stone got to do with it? Are you imagining Anja illustrated her story with glowy red pictures in the air? Besides, how would she know what to make pictures of? She wasn't there. She'd only know what Surma told her about the trip. She was told verbally, so she told the story verbally. I see no reason to assume otherwise. I find myself agreeing with maxptc – Kat and Annie got a verbal story; we're the ones who saw events as they happened. |
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Post by Gemminie on Jun 8, 2021 16:53:38 GMT
I think it's just a storytelling convention that we shouldn't worry over. The webcomic presents the same thing on a larger scale; it began with Annie narrating it (that dropped out after the middle of Chapter Fifteen, occasionally surfacing such as with the chapter where Annie and Donald were sending the medical supplies to Anthony and the "Evac" chapter), but had several scenes that Annie was not present at and could not have known about (even chapters told from the perspective of other characters, such as "Sky Watcher and the Angel"). Not to mention "Ties," which was entirely told in flashback with no framing device (no indication that anyone was telling that story to anyone); there's no reason to assume that anyone knows that story except for the people who were there. |
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Post by torontoregonian on Jun 8, 2021 19:47:07 GMT
The symbols/antennae on those monument(?) thingies look like the exact reverse of the symbol marking Jeanne's tomb. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=638 |
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