Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2021 7:00:45 GMT
Yikes. Well, it's been a fun 9 years, but I'm out. 
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Post by madjack on May 24, 2021 7:02:24 GMT
Yeah don't make a page thread to say that...
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V
Full Member
I just think it's a pity that she never wore these again.
Posts: 168
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Post by V on May 24, 2021 7:06:15 GMT
I think the opinion is important, and it's an opinion on this page. Just give the thread a better name? |
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Post by madjack on May 24, 2021 7:08:37 GMT
It's not really about the page or the opinion, it's about hijacking the discussion before it's even begun, it's disrespectful to those who want to engage with the forum in good faith.
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Post by flowsthead on May 24, 2021 7:10:07 GMT
Man, people are really going crazy over this Tony plotline. That twitter thread is nuts.
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Post by rylfrazier on May 24, 2021 7:11:05 GMT
It's not really about the page or the opinion, it's about hijacking the discussion before it's even begun, it's disrespectful to those who want to engage with the forum in good faith. I think it's a big claim to say that that isn't a "good faith" response to this page of the comic (and what has lead up to this page of this comic). I'm not ready to punch out on GC at this point, but I am getting extremely tired of Tom hitting me with the "Tony is great actually" hammer. I don't think its a good narrative choice and also I personally just find it boring, and additionally I find this specific run, especially the last 3 or 4 pages to be particularly heavy handed and "at" the reader. |
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Post by faiiry on May 24, 2021 7:12:26 GMT
I am a little disappointed that Annie and Jones' entire discussion was about Tony, and we didn't get to hear... anything else. There's so much about Annie's mental state that we could've heard about, but the entire thing focused on her dad. I am slightly tired of the Tony show, but what else is new?
I'm not willing to abandon the comic about it at this point, though. It's been what, 7 years, and I've put up with it this long.
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Post by madjack on May 24, 2021 7:18:17 GMT
It's not really about the page or the opinion, it's about hijacking the discussion before it's even begun, it's disrespectful to those who want to engage with the forum in good faith. I think it's a big claim to say that that isn't a "good faith" response to this page of the comic (and what has lead up to this page of this comic). I'm not ready to punch out on GC at this point, but I am getting extremely tired of Tom hitting me with the "Tony is great actually" hammer. I don't think its a good narrative choice and also I personally just find it boring, and additionally I find this specific run, especially the last 3 or 4 pages to be particularly heavy handed and "at" the reader. Don't get me wrong, I'm getting tired of this chapter real fast, but the content isn't the point. The introduction sets the tone, and kicking off a page thread (that gets archived) with a giant 'FU' isn't really a good way to go about it, which is what I mean by good faith engagement. If you really have to just vent a whole heap, hold it in until the page thread has been made, at least. |
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Post by Elysium on May 24, 2021 7:24:02 GMT
It's certainly not in good faith when the thread title has nothing to do with the page and just serves to vent your feelings, you know what place that discusses GKC and does that? The zone.
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Post by philman on May 24, 2021 7:24:10 GMT
Oh get over yourself with this. Page discussions are for page discussions, and there is plenty of space in them to vent your own opinions, the thread titles have long been for a line from the page, or another suitable observation if there isn't one.
Having your own opinions on things is fine and discussion of them is what the forum is for, but don't hijack the thread title to make your opinion the entire thread topic, rather than the comic itself.
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Post by sebastian on May 24, 2021 7:24:40 GMT
Yikes. Well, it's been a fun 9 years, but I'm out. Shees, wait at least for the chapter to end. It would not be the first time that Tom pull a last page twist that turn a chapter on its head. Remember 'Red returns'? It seemed to be about friends and how you need to treat them with respect to keep them, but no. It was all about her hair in the end.  (so beautiful  ) |
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V
Full Member
I just think it's a pity that she never wore these again.
Posts: 168
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Post by V on May 24, 2021 7:25:52 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I'm getting tired of this chapter real fast, but the content isn't the point. The introduction sets the tone, and kicking off a page thread that gets archived with a giant 'FU' isn't really a good way to go about it, which is what I mean by good faith engagement. If you really have to just vent a whole heap, hold it in until the page thread has been made, at least. I think it's not against anything if someone wants to start another thread, but I had done it twice already and twice I decided to delete it again, so anyone else. Setting the tone would be bad if @azujax 's post started an avalanche of "yeah, me too", which does not seem to be what happened. I'm not opposed to leaving this be and discussing the comic elsewhere, just that in my eyes a start like does not actually have much more sense than this, and the OP carries a stronger meaning than if it was in an answer to one of these. I did not know this user so it's not up to me to guess whether this is something the community wishes to know or not. Also, this. Shees, wait at least for the chapter to end. It would not be the first time that Tom pull a last page twist that turn a chapter on its head. Remember 'Red returns'? It seemed to be about friends and how you need to treat them with respect to keep them, but no. It was all about her hairs in the end. (so beautiful ) The twitter post was about the chapter ending on this tone, which it didn't. It's been going on for a while now but who can say it won't change its direction drastically? |
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Post by speedwell on May 24, 2021 7:29:33 GMT
Oh, ye of little faith. Can't you see that Annie is holding a mirror up to Jones instead of showing her true self? That "I'll stick by them until they die no matter what" is Jones's method, the modus operandi of elemental Earth, not of elemental Fire.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 24, 2021 7:51:03 GMT
What baffles me is that after ten pages of Antimony talking about her dad's issues, five pages of Anthony talking about his issues, and Antimony saying she's feeling fine (better than fine actually) and Jones saying it seems like she's doing well there seem to be some people who aren't expecting either the opposite to be depicted... or something really dark to happen. |
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Post by faiiry on May 24, 2021 7:53:59 GMT
What baffles me is that after ten pages of Antimony talking about her dad's issues, five pages of Anthony talking about his issues, and Antimony saying she's feeling fine (better than fine actually) and Jones saying it seems like she's doing well there seem to be some people who aren't expecting either the opposite to be depicted... or something really dark to happen. I've been half expecting something to happen soon that shows Annie is lying/not doing very well at all, that she's just showing a brave face and inwardly she's still fighting herself. I have thought of this, but I'm only half expecting it. The other half believes this is just... it, and the chapter was genuinely meant to shake a finger in the faces of all the Tony antis. |
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Post by maxptc on May 24, 2021 8:07:37 GMT
Mark(name I gave the guy in charge of student health, who I imagined)-So is the Annie situation all good?
Jones-Yes, she loves her Dad anyways and seems to be doing well.
Mark- The fudge does that mean or have to do with anything? She might have two minds in one body! Is that okay? Is she gonna cause a gaint fire explosion or is there weird synaptic activity or did Loup breech our defenses? How did she unsplit, and is it worth examining? You had a job women! Do not tell me you wasted the entire day talking to her about her family life.
Jones-You said there was concern for her mental state.
Mark- Based on curiosity about her recombination! Did you get any information about that! We know Tony is weird and has a weird relationship with his daughter, he has a weird relationship with everyone and we know cause we've been stalking him for his entire life. Do you seriously not know anything about the part we cared more about?
Jone-Oh she explained everything about that right afterwards, off screen.
Mark- '-'
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Post by antiyonder on May 24, 2021 8:08:21 GMT
The other half believes this is just... it, and the chapter was genuinely meant to shake a finger in the faces of all the Tony antis. And am waiting to see what happens next, it's just that I think it's fair to question the intent when the only series detractor of Tony handles it in the most irrational fashion. To put it simple a character like James can easily be seen as a strawman depiction of all Tony critics (especially hating him long before Mr. Carver did anything other than being socially awkward). Surely you can agree that some posters in the anti camp have been fair about their criticism? |
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Post by faiiry on May 24, 2021 8:09:52 GMT
The other half believes this is just... it, and the chapter was genuinely meant to shake a finger in the faces of all the Tony antis. And am waiting to see what happens next, it's just that I think it's fair to question the intent when the only series detractor of Tony handles it in the most irrational fashion. To put it simple a character like James can easily be seen as a strawman depiction of all Tony critics (especially hating him long before Mr. Carver did anything other than being socially awkward). Surely you can agree that some posters in the anti camp have been fair about their criticism? I think you misinterpreted my statement. Generally I AM a Tony anti. I completely agree with most of the criticism of this chapter, actually. |
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Post by shadesight on May 24, 2021 9:30:43 GMT
Not thrilled about how Azujax started this thread either, but what the hell.
Like, if this chapter is meant to say "Tony is a great guy see how great he is," it's doing a really crap job of it. It says Tony is isolated because he's a shithead. It says he can't help but be a dick, and that just because he can't help it doesn't excuse it.
Also ... look at Annie's smile, look at the way she's laughing "haha" every few paragraphs. When has she ever done that? I can't think of a time - but I recall a dude carrying a brainspider and losing his mind doing that.
Now, let's imagine for a moment that there's no last minute twist. Maybe Annie isn't hiding deep damage and the whole chapter can be taken at face value. Even if that's the case, this chapter isn't asking you to forgive Tony. Eglamore doesn't, Paz and the squad don't, and Tony sure as hell doesn't forgive himself.
Tony sucks. Annie acknowledges this. Is she wrong to care about Tony? I'm not going to say she is, but I wouldn't say she would be wrong to cut him out of her life either, because he has, in fact, done a lot of awful stuff.
This chapter ... is complex. This is not to say it is complex in a good way or a bad way - just complex, and I think its the author trying to say that you don't need to forgive Tony.
It's okay to despise him for all of the crappy stuff he's done. It's okay to say that all of the good he's done doesn't make up for the crap. Just because Annie has seemingly chosen to forgive doesn't mean you need to.
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Post by aline on May 24, 2021 9:45:34 GMT
It's not really about the page or the opinion, it's about hijacking the discussion before it's even begun, it's disrespectful to those who want to engage with the forum in good faith. I think it's a big claim to say that that isn't a "good faith" response to this page of the comic (and what has lead up to this page of this comic). We've had clear guidelines for years around naming threads. Names are supposed to make it easier to remember what page it was about, opinions go inside the thread. But azujax here obviously thinks their opinion is so vital none of us will survive unless we get to read it without even opening the thread. If you are all indeed so fed up with the comic, will you please do us the favor of reading something else? And commenting that something else elsewhere? You don't need to tell us you hate GC three times a week. You can just tell us once, then go away and live your best life! |
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Post by Alkazar on May 24, 2021 9:55:44 GMT
I can't imagine how difficult this chapter for a lot of people must be. There are many victims of direct oder indirect parental abuse out there. It's also the right of every victim to decide for themselves how they handle the aftermath. If they ask for help, we should give them help. If they decide to forgive, that's their decision. Annie has been from the beginning a person who seeks to strike a balance between the needs of people, hers included. And that's what I see here. She says that there is no excuse for the things her father did to her and others. But she says also the understands why he acted that way. That's the balance she strikes and it's the base for her decision to stay with him. Is it a good or a bad decision? Only time will tell. But it's her decision that comes from her character, not some agenda of the author. So I'm okay with it.
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Post by antiyonder on May 24, 2021 10:05:26 GMT
It's okay to say that all of the good he's done doesn't make up for the crap. Just because Annie has seemingly chosen to forgive doesn't mean you need to. But then why is the main person who dislikes Tony never seems to keep a level head when it comes to said negative feelings. If the story isn't pushing the readers to feel a certain way, you'd think there would be a variety of feelings in-universe regarding Anthony. I can't imagine how difficult this chapter for a lot of people must be. There are many victims of direct oder indirect parental abuse out there. That, but some of us (Uncle myself) and also had good relationships with our parents just really feel that way when a kid has to deal with such hardship due to the person/people who should be the most responsible. For now I'm giving Tony himself slack until he does something akin to his reappearance, but you grow attached to kids in the family if not your own, you might feel the same way if their parent for example screws up. And again the person (James Eglamore) most vocal and remaining against Tony does seem to suggest that if you don't start liking the man, you are clearly the most irrational human. |
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yinglung
Full Member
It's only a tatter of mime.
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Post by yinglung on May 24, 2021 11:30:23 GMT
And again the person (James Eglamore) most vocal and remaining against Tony does seem to suggest that if you don't start liking the man, you are clearly the most irrational human. I think that this particular point is missing the point, as it were. Annie herself says that it's a valid viewpoint to dislike and even hate Tony. Annie has shared that viewpoint from time to time. She said that the way he acts makes people dislike him. It's not their fault, it's Tony's. The reason why she is willing to deal with Tony is because she has gained enough understanding of his character but also because she still wants a father and family, even if he is dysfunctional. She literally doesn't require any one else to like him. Even if other people gain a similar understanding, they would lack her motive of wanting family, and thus may very well still rationally dislike Tony. |
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Post by sebastian on May 24, 2021 11:33:34 GMT
Jone-Oh she explained everything about that right afterwards, off screen. Mark- '-' Ok, that made me think of Pinkie Pie. And now I can't help but compare Jones to Maud Pie. (I kinda want to see Jones making stand-up comedy) |
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Post by todd on May 24, 2021 12:46:45 GMT
I'm not ready to punch out on GC at this point, but I am getting extremely tired of Tom hitting me with the "Tony is great actually" hammer. The impression I've had from all of this is that the statement isn't "Tony is great actually" but "Tony is a human being, whose actions stem from human weaknesses", that he's being a cold and distant parent because of a psychological problem that he's struggling against in vain, rather than out of deliberate cruelty. |
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Post by ohthatone on May 24, 2021 13:24:26 GMT
When I feel the need to drop a comic I just...drop the comic. No need to slam the door on your way out.
I do understand how a chapter like this would be a huge turn off if you didn't like Tony. It's a long read about someone you wish would just walk off a cliff.
I've made it known before I love tony. I find him the most interesting, he's my favorite character in GC, and Tom has not disappointed. The only thing that bugs me about this chapter is how sage annie is being for her age. But given what she's gone through, it's not much of a turn off. I just wish annie would communicate even half of this to Tony. I know it's not her job to fix her parent, but they seem to be stuck and Annie's mind seems to be the only one capable to get out and push. Would it help Tony to relax and try opening up a little more or would it enable him to stay closed off?
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Post by maxptc on May 24, 2021 13:46:34 GMT
If you are all indeed so fed up with the comic, will you please do us the favor of reading something else? And commenting that something else elsewhere? You don't need to tell us you hate GC three times a week. You can just tell us once, then go away and live your best life! This, hard. I get it, Tony is a bad man and everyone here should be mad at him, and the comic should have a character constantly shaking a fist in his general direction. But if you dislike any part of the comic enough to leave, just do so instead of hijacking a thread for a "I'm leaving Facebook forever" post that I for one never believe anyways. |
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Post by saardvark on May 24, 2021 13:53:47 GMT
thread has been restarted, FYI...
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Post by rylfrazier on May 24, 2021 15:47:04 GMT
I'm not ready to punch out on GC at this point, but I am getting extremely tired of Tom hitting me with the "Tony is great actually" hammer. The impression I've had from all of this is that the statement isn't "Tony is great actually" but "Tony is a human being, whose actions stem from human weaknesses", that he's being a cold and distant parent because of a psychological problem that he's struggling against in vain, rather than out of deliberate cruelty. I think if you didn't realize Tony was a person this chapter certainly spent a lot of time telling you "Tony is a person". When a character says something and the narrative doesn't contradict it in any way, one reasonable way to interpret the narrative is that it agrees with what the character is saying. In this chapter as you said, Tony says repeatedly that he's doing his best but he literally can't do any better. Nobody critiques this claim and the narrative does not appear to critique this claim. I think it's reasonable for a reader to assume that the narrative agrees with this claim. Similarly, Annie's position is that she loves Tony and that she's doing great. While we aren't at the end of the chapter yet, it seems like nobody will be critiquing this approach to Tony or critiquing Annie's assessment of her mental health. Accordingly I think that it's reasonable for a reader to assume that the narrative's position on this story is that Tony is doing his best, and that it is mentally and emotionally healthy for Annie to accept him and love him, and this is both a healthy and an admirable approach to her relationship to him. I can absolutely see why a person who is / was a victim of emotional abuse or just someone who doesn't agree with what very strongly appears to be the comic's position on healthy relationships with father figures might find this to be something that would cause them to lose interest in reading a comic, and I also think that this is a worthwhile opinion that's worthy of discussion, just as much as "I love this comic, I think it's going great!" I think a full discussion if a work of art is a lot more useful / interesting that "good reacts only" or "if you don't like it just shut up and leave the forum." |
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Post by flowsthead on May 24, 2021 23:09:53 GMT
The impression I've had from all of this is that the statement isn't "Tony is great actually" but "Tony is a human being, whose actions stem from human weaknesses", that he's being a cold and distant parent because of a psychological problem that he's struggling against in vain, rather than out of deliberate cruelty. I think if you didn't realize Tony was a person this chapter certainly spent a lot of time telling you "Tony is a person". When a character says something and the narrative doesn't contradict it in any way, one reasonable way to interpret the narrative is that it agrees with what the character is saying. In this chapter as you said, Tony says repeatedly that he's doing his best but he literally can't do any better. Nobody critiques this claim and the narrative does not appear to critique this claim. I think it's reasonable for a reader to assume that the narrative agrees with this claim. Similarly, Annie's position is that she loves Tony and that she's doing great. While we aren't at the end of the chapter yet, it seems like nobody will be critiquing this approach to Tony or critiquing Annie's assessment of her mental health. Accordingly I think that it's reasonable for a reader to assume that the narrative's position on this story is that Tony is doing his best, and that it is mentally and emotionally healthy for Annie to accept him and love him, and this is both a healthy and an admirable approach to her relationship to him. I can absolutely see why a person who is / was a victim of emotional abuse or just someone who doesn't agree with what very strongly appears to be the comic's position on healthy relationships with father figures might find this to be something that would cause them to lose interest in reading a comic, and I also think that this is a worthwhile opinion that's worthy of discussion, just as much as "I love this comic, I think it's going great!" I think a full discussion if a work of art is a lot more useful / interesting that "good reacts only" or "if you don't like it just shut up and leave the forum." Narratives can also be neutral, and take time. A character might say they're doing great, and then 5 chapters down the line the narrative contradicts them. Or, a character can say some thing without the narrative affirming or denying it. I don't know the reaction has to be immediate or present at all. Annie saying something doesn't mean the narrative agrees or disagrees, especially in an ongoing story. What you think is reasonable for a reader to me seems like a lot of assuming and a lot of reading into what the reader is looking to be pissed off about. Many readers already hate Tony. Any storyline that doesn't make Tony look like a monster is going to tick them off. |
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(so beautiful 
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