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Post by Gemminie on May 5, 2021 17:19:55 GMT
Things to consider, since he's thoughtfully gone inside: - Could Renard take Jones? If so, what would happen?
- Why didn't Renard take Surma?
- If Renard had successfully taken Annie, how would we know?
- Has Annie ever asked Renard to take something with eyes? Accidentally?
- Who or what is Annie most likely to ask Renard to take? Deliberately?
- Paz. Nice choice?
Jones: We don't know what sort of defenses Jones has against mental attack, but she's billions of years old and has certainly encountered beings with such abilities before, she's probably impervious to possession attempts. I suspect Renard could inhabit Jones' body, but I don't think he could make it do anything. Jones would basically be Jones with Renard watching mutely inside her through her Wandering Eyes. And when he left, Jones wouldn't die, because she isn't alive. Surma: Because he wanted to be with Surma; he didn't want to be Surma. Also he had good reason to believe that taking her body would kill her, and he loved her. Annie: I guess because Renard wouldn't be anywhere else? And Annie would suddenly have been acting differently, possessing knowledge Annie wouldn't have, etc. There might well have been a change in appearance, too, as there was for Daniel Schiff. Has Annie asked Renard to take something: Pre-chapter-71, doing this would have left Renard outside Annie's control, so that would have been the last order she gave him, as it's unlikely he'd have wanted to go back into Annie's wolf toy after that. Also, considering the Court had her (off-camera) order Renard not to possess anything or anyone else, one would think the consequences for doing that would have been pretty severe (as in holding her responsible if Renard killed anyone – she'd be locked in a cell pending trial for murder). Post-chapter-71, we don't know, although I speculate he'd now remain her familiar no matter what form he inhabited. There's no evidence that she's tried this, however. I have a good idea for what Annie is likely to order Renard to take – the body of one of the robots that the Court's removed the CPU from and installed a control circuit in its head. It's not alive, it doesn't even have a CPU, and it would allow Renard to move about the Court unnoticed, at least until someone noticed that the robot had deviated from its instructions. And robots have eyes. Renard could even play Paradroid, jumping from one robot to another. Paz: I'm assuming that you mean whether Annie would ask or order Renard to take Paz's body. I don't think Annie would order Renard to murder somebody, especially somebody so beloved of her own best friend. Paz has given Annie few reasons to like her lately, but no reasons to want her dead. We don't know whether the living being's spirit is gone the instant Renard jumps in, or whether they hang around unable to use their body and pass on as soon as Renard jumps out, but at the very least, the body of everything Renard has inhabited so far has died the moment he jumped out, if it was alive to begin with. Also, if Annie asked him rather than ordering him, Renard would likely refuse. He's been down that road before. |
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Post by ctso74 on May 5, 2021 17:28:13 GMT
Annie: "Word's gotten out about the hobo fights, me and Kat have been promoting, hasn't it?"
Jones: "..."
Annie: "I mean,... whaaaat?"
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Post by flowsthead on May 5, 2021 18:29:39 GMT
Annie: "Word's gotten out about the hobo fights, me and Kat have been promoting, hasn't it?" Jones: "..." Annie: "I mean,... whaaaat?" Gunnerkrigg Court is suddenly Veronica Mars. |
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Post by foxurus on May 5, 2021 18:46:23 GMT
It's sunset, more red/orange light to dull the blue. Wouldn't the rest of her be more red, then? Or Jones? Palettes have been pretty consistent. Out of curiosity I found a recent pre-recombined panel to grab swatches from. Her skin and hair are almost the same, which makes the difference in her eye color more marked. Jones's palette isn't much different from the first page of the chapter either. Though it could be that Annie's eyes are just more washed-out as an artistic choice and it doesn't mean anything, but it still felt worth mentioning, because her eyes have been getting a lot of attention this chapter. The odd-eyed panel for Surma afaik is an unanswered mystery still... Also probably the boring answer, Surma had half her face in shadow, so one eye reflected more light. I do not believe that is a probably answer. There were lots of light and shadow effects that whole arc, but only that one panel had her eyes just... be different colors like that. They were otherwise consistently grey throughout. Her eyes are the unsaturated shade, compared to Annie's stronger blue tint. (A page earlier, there was a very close shot of Surma's eyes to see the grey clearly, as well.) Eyes are an important running theme in this comic in various instances, so why not here, in a girl who's had something strange and magical just happen to her soul? It could be a coloring error, and if it gets retconned then we'll know that for sure, heh. But for now, I'm sticking to thinking, "Tom's panel direction and color choices have been deliberate for some reason". Besides, if it turns out to be significant, I get cookies!
Jones is a different color, at least eyeballing it. Not "much" different is still different, when Tom eye droppers his colors. I assume Tom put a reddish-purpleish tint over the page. I do think that's part of why I found Annie creepy, though! Surma's thing is weird, I dunno about that. But I don't think it's related to this particular instance. I wonder if Tony and Jones have done any role-playing. No, nothing weird like that, but just practicing saying things. I often write down scripts or practice what I’m going to say in a stressful situation, and it helps to practice saying them out loud to a person. So I wonder if Jones has been coaching Tony. Can't imagine Jones doing that. Like I said last thread, she's not a therapist. She asks questions and listens to people talk, and she answers questions, but she seems to stick to that. Anyway, my opinion is, yes, Annie does look fine. We're not used at seeing her smile, she's always been very neutral and otherwise quite angsty. So maybe that's way it feels weird to many people. But when she did feel terrible inside and wanted to hide it, she always had this blank Jones-like face, which is what she seems to default to. In this chapter she looks relaxed and happy, like at the beginning of Torn Sea, or in Tall Tales, or the happier scenes of Get It Together. I'm used to seeing her smile, it's definitely not just that. Her eyebrows aren't moving at all and she's smiling while saying things that aren't positive, where normally her facial expressions change throughout a page. She's become a very emotive person. Paz: I'm assuming that you mean whether Annie would ask or order Renard to take Paz's body. I don't think Annie would order Renard to murder somebody, especially somebody so beloved of her own best friend. Paz has given Annie few reasons to like her lately, but no reasons to want her dead. We don't know whether the living being's spirit is gone the instant Renard jumps in, or whether they hang around unable to use their body and pass on as soon as Renard jumps out, but at the very least, the body of everything Renard has inhabited so far has died the moment he jumped out, if it was alive to begin with. Also, if Annie asked him rather than ordering him, Renard would likely refuse. He's been down that road before. I think it's just a tongue-in-cheek callback to how Renard said Paz was a nice choice when he and Kat talked about her relationship. |
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Post by jda on May 5, 2021 20:07:04 GMT
"You are right, people has been saying a lot more, Surma."
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Post by AluK on May 5, 2021 20:33:26 GMT
Annies' eye color is just a lighting effect. For comparison, see Jones' coloring in this page vs. the previous one. Yellow tones in the hair get more muted and skin trends towards purple - both signs of being lit by a light with blue/purple cast.
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Post by saardvark on May 5, 2021 20:33:35 GMT
Just wanted to say, on a less serious note, I am digging both Jones's and Annie's outfits. Jones looks good in purple. Annie is rocking some dope boots(booties maybe?). I like the shorter jacket look as well. Her outfit is an interesting blend of Courtney's and F!Annie's styles, forest boots and natural brown slacks, with a slightly more Court-stlyish/dressy vest and scarf. Just like her hair is midway that of between long (and slightly wild) hair of F!annie's and the short clip bob of Courtney. She's a blend on multiple levels! |
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Post by AluK on May 5, 2021 20:37:32 GMT
I am digging both Jones's and Annie's outfits. Jones looks good in purple. Can't go wrong with yellow/gold over purple. |
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caber
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by caber on May 5, 2021 21:21:30 GMT
This makes me wonder: could Annie have been Astral projecting around each of the previous meetings? Even if Kat wasn't in on it, Annie has twice the firepower; is it a stretch to think she might be able to project WHILE walking around and interacting, sorta like the fae/animal kids?
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Post by todd on May 5, 2021 23:44:52 GMT
I recall a few occasions when we discussed some strange-appearing moment in the comic and it turned out to be a drawing error of Tom's. Maybe the eye color will turn out to be another such thing.
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Post by lurkerbot on May 6, 2021 0:00:35 GMT
I guess both Annie and Tony find it easy to be frank with The Impartial Observer Jones. She's not judge or opinionated, she just sees. Some people would be unnerved by it but for the Carvers maybe it's a relief? Don't have to "pretend you don't see what you're pretending you're not seeing even though we both know you saw it" with Jones. Maybe it makes it easier to face the truth. I get it. I think I would be like that too. I also believe I would like this. I imagine such conversations would be rather liberating. |
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Post by csj on May 6, 2021 1:19:19 GMT
the scariest thing about this page is
the implication in the first three panels that Jones managed to talk to Tony for an entire day
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Post by foxurus on May 6, 2021 1:54:13 GMT
This makes me wonder: could Annie have been Astral projecting around each of the previous meetings? Even if Kat wasn't in on it, Annie has twice the firepower; is it a stretch to think she might be able to project WHILE walking around and interacting, sorta like the fae/animal kids? I think that is a stretch. Firepower doesn't translate directly to etheric power, and having twice the sentience/awareness sounds pretty difficult. The fairies run their bodies on auto-pilot, it'd be pretty rude to Kat if she was walking silently while off astral projecting around all day. |
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Post by pyradonis on May 6, 2021 15:45:08 GMT
Yes, Annie, it's all about you, as usual, because you can't seem to stop panicking your friends and family and your friends' families. It's almost as if you're the main character in some kind of story or other whom things keep happening to. Huh, you are unusually sarcastic today. Jones has eyes, so, sure, why not? As soon as he leaves, we find out whether Jones was alive in the first place (extrapolating from Tom's statement that Renard could take over a robot's body and leave again without harming it). Because he would have killed his beloved, and it is also really hard to kiss yourself. For example, the plush wolf toy would be just an inanimate toy. Probably not. His original body. Paz is not on this page. This makes me wonder: could Annie have been Astral projecting around each of the previous meetings? Even if Kat wasn't in on it, Annie has twice the firepower; is it a stretch to think she might be able to project WHILE walking around and interacting, sorta like the fae/animal kids? I think that is a stretch. Firepower doesn't translate directly to etheric power, and having twice the sentience/awareness sounds pretty difficult. The fairies run their bodies on auto-pilot, it'd be pretty rude to Kat if she was walking silently while off astral projecting around all day. Well, she can at least still converse while projecting.  I expressed myself wrong in saying "why" Renard went ahead, I meant more like why it was necessary to show this to readers. I bet you ten quatloos that if we hadn't been shown, someone in this thread would be asking where Renard is. |
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Post by foxurus on May 7, 2021 2:08:31 GMT
I expressed myself wrong in saying "why" Renard went ahead, I meant more like why it was necessary to show this to readers. I bet you ten quatloos that if we hadn't been shown, someone in this thread would be asking where Renard is. Speaking of, where did Kat go? |
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Post by Gemminie on May 7, 2021 5:07:50 GMT
I bet you ten quatloos that if we hadn't been shown, someone in this thread would be asking where Renard is. Speaking of, where did Kat go?If I had to guess, she's at home. She doesn't live far from there. They came back from wherever they all went earlier, Annie and Renard said goodbye to Kat, she went home (perhaps they even went by her place first), then A&R went to the Carver home. |
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mu695
New Member
Posts: 19 
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Post by mu695 on May 7, 2021 18:02:39 GMT
Hey, the page titles have finally been fixed! Well, some of them anyway. Most of the ones in this chapter are still numbered like "Chapter 80: Page23".
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ffkonoko
New Member
I've been a New Member for 9 years.
Posts: 44
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Post by ffkonoko on May 7, 2021 20:11:42 GMT
Annie is creeping me out in this page, iunno. Emote more, please. We talking about the same person? Annie has historically been terrible at the emoting, and on this page she isn't in standard neutral pose, has some body language, starts at slight smile, ends on slight downturn mouth. She knows people talk about her father behind her back, but now has new insight, having seen both annies perspectives of him. She's actually seen the him that is normally locked away, the man her mother loved. That doesn't mean she doesn't still want or need him to open up to her still. Which he is set to do, thanks to Jones. It also doesn't mean that she's in denial or on the brink of a breakdown until she gets it. She CAN be 'fine' right now, but still need him to say it. It just also isn't what all of her friends think. |
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Post by foxurus on May 7, 2021 23:03:22 GMT
Annie is creeping me out in this page, iunno. Emote more, please. We talking about the same person? Annie has historically been terrible at the emoting, and on this page she isn't in standard neutral pose, has some body language, starts at slight smile, ends on slight downturn mouth. She knows people talk about her father behind her back, but now has new insight, having seen both annies perspectives of him. She's actually seen the him that is normally locked away, the man her mother loved. That doesn't mean she doesn't still want or need him to open up to her still. Which he is set to do, thanks to Jones. It also doesn't mean that she's in denial or on the brink of a breakdown until she gets it. She CAN be 'fine' right now, but still need him to say it. It just also isn't what all of her friends think. Are you talking about the next page? The one where she talks about her father, I agree, she's emoting. The previous page, though, she's maintaining a smile despite her words not matching it. I don't remember a previous time where Annie masked her feelings with a smile instead of a blank face. |
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Post by silicondream on May 9, 2021 6:09:13 GMT
Fellow posters: Thank you for your services! I apologize for the delay. While reading the following reply, please assume that the “possession = murder!” issue is no longer relevant, either because Renard has solved that problem, or because he no longer sees it as a problem. Quoted responses are abridged, for reasons of time or...impartiality. *jonesglance* Let us diss Gus. Jones: We don't know what sort of defenses Jones has against mental attack, but she's billions of years old and has certainly encountered beings with such abilities before, she's probably impervious to possession attempts. Very interesting. I was thinking that she might not have such defenses, but also might not require them. What can’t she endure? Whom can’t she outlast? Depends on the nature of her strength, perhaps. Jones tends to describe it as matter yielding to her will; that doesn’t mean she couldn’t yield to another’s. And Loup did at least move her. Arguably. Actually I was wondering whether he could leave, without inflicting some sort of death, however small, discuss. Interesting. Considering her powers of Annie-nymity and Annie-mation, could we tell the difference? Did there have to be a change? Or was it voluntary? Discuss. Is it? Perhaps he appreciates the restraint, and would appreciate it even more if it was by choice. The mind is the plaything of the body, as he has observed. Acceptable, though Annie is known to forget herself. Might she order him into something she can never own? He could. Would he enjoy it? Seems a bit tawdry. I was more wondering if he would choose to take Paz. If it would be advantageous for him. Premises accepted, of course. Paz’s power is charm, of a sort, and traditionally Renard lives by charm. He’s been down many roads, yes. Of course when Annie’s involved they sometimes diverge, or loop round. Jones has eyes, so, sure, why not? If you call those eyes. Further responses: acceptable. “Aceptable,” so I quote. Perhaps they still wonder. Incidentally, what’s the exchange rate between quatloos and diamonds? I think that is a stretch. Firepower doesn't translate directly to etheric power, and having twice the sentience/awareness sounds pretty difficult. The fairies run their bodies on auto-pilot, it'd be pretty rude to Kat if she was walking silently while off astral projecting around all day. Is Annie never difficult or rude, particularly around Kat? Discuss? I do think that's part of why I found Annie creepy, though! Did you? Do you? Discuss further if you like, unless you find the existing discussion sufficient.
Discuss. Is there something else involved in therapy, necessarily? *jonesglance plus zero point two five seconds* She is, when not under threat. Jones is, or can be, threatening. Slightly. Or interpretable as such. Seriously, most adult Western women don’t normally stare down threats with a stone face; they pass them off with a glance and a smile. Annie is only normal when she wants to be, but it’s still a good skill to have in her arsenal. Takes practice, though. It is. Halythathon! rolling, bouncing, or drifting away |
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Post by silicondream on May 9, 2021 10:10:29 GMT
(no one is actually required to discuss.)
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Post by pyradonis on May 10, 2021 13:22:09 GMT
Perhaps they still wonder. Incidentally, what’s the exchange rate between quatloos and diamonds? For a being evolved highly enough to use quatloos as a currency, diamonds are, naturally, shiny stones of negligible worth. |
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Post by foxurus on May 10, 2021 20:05:59 GMT
silicondream You attributed like three of my quotes to other people. :P Yeah, a therapist needs to be able to do more than ask questions and listen. If their patient needs advice or another perspective, the therapist (to be a good one) must be able to provide that. Not all problems can be solved with a sounding board. Jones would not humor the idea of roleplaying to help someone through their anxiety. A therapist would, because it's easy and they have an obligation to help their patient.
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Post by Polyhymnia on May 10, 2021 23:51:03 GMT
silicondream You attributed like three of my quotes to other people.  Yeah, a therapist needs to be able to do more than ask questions and listen. If their patient needs advice or another perspective, the therapist (to be a good one) must be able to provide that. Not all problems can be solved with a sounding board. Jones would not humor the idea of roleplaying to help someone through their anxiety. A therapist would, because it's easy and they have an obligation to help their patient. Yes, I falsely received one of those attributions, I think. For what it’s worth, I think in this specific situation, a sounding board could be better than nothing; sometimes for me just saying words out loud helps because I don’t actually need help on the right words, just practice saying *any* words. Such a situation could explain what happened to the lapsed time. On the other hand, maybe it was already getting late when they started talking and nothing important happened between when we last saw them talking and now. I definitely agree that Jones probably wouldn’t do all the things that a therapist might, especially because I don’t think she sees herself as qualified due to lack of similar experiential understanding. |
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Post by silicondream on May 11, 2021 5:21:31 GMT
For a being evolved highly enough to use quatloos as a currency, diamonds are, naturally, shiny stones of negligible worth. Even if they’re Jones-pressed diamonds? Everybody cryptogangsta until you start fusing carbon into solanogen with a hard squeeze. silicondream You attributed like three of my quotes to other people. Sigh, apologies. Fixed, hopefully? I need a quote-flattening macro...or just to git gud. Is that not what she’s doing here? Jones is hardly shy about giving advice, be it emotional, academic, professional or ethical. She prefers to observe before making a recommendation, but she generally follows through if the other person's receptive. But hasn't Jones been roleplaying since the Pleistocene? In her own eyes she's not human, but rather a rock roleplaying a human very carefully. Jones will smile, dance, cuddle, and Netflix if she thinks it won't hurt or upset her partner. I actually think she’d be exceptionally willing to roleplay for a patient. Whether they’d find it terrifyingly awkward is...probably patient-dependent. Some of us are Jones people, some of us are Lindsey people. (There is no third option.) I definitely agree that Jones probably wouldn’t do all the things that a therapist might, especially because I don’t think she sees herself as qualified due to lack of similar experiential understanding. This is fascinating to me, because of all the therapists I’ve worked with, I think I’d rather have Jones than all but maybe...one of them? Not because they were bad, but because she's precisely what I look for. Opinionated but non-judgmental, patient but willing to push when necessary, possessed of a perfect memory for our own sessions and a couple million years' experience with other humans, and almost impossible to hurt or deflect. Her awareness of her own limited understanding is an asset to me; I think all analysts benefit from a dose of post(post(post)))modernism. You can approach objectivity only by acknowledging your own subjectivity, etc. Whom would you prefer, among the characters we've seen? Lindsey? Don? One of the etherics? |
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Post by Polyhymnia on May 11, 2021 11:58:39 GMT
To be clear, I was the one who suggested Tony and Jones could be role playing in the first place.
If I was at the court and considering therapy...I wouldn’t get it. All of the adults read threatening, too close on a personal level, or incompetent, asking for help would be require admitting my own “weakness,” and there has been no outreach so far to reduce the difficulty of asking. Re:Jones, I think Jones would make me very uncomfortable. She doesn’t in-story, mind you, but if I were interacting with her, I think I would be unnerved with her state of constant observation and my inability to get a read on an emotional state.
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Post by silicondream on May 13, 2021 6:10:06 GMT
To be clear, I was the one who suggested Tony and Jones could be role playing in the first place. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I lumped you and foxurus together as "people who would be less enthusiastic about Therapist Jones than I would," but that category probably includes most of humanity. That's a good point (or several of them). Even if the Court was filled with well-adjusted folks, it's still awfully small from an adult point of view. Any therapist you see there is essentially your coworker. I certainly can never open up completely to a coworker; we might be forced into a different sort of relationship the next day. Jones would work for me because she's so remote; if she chooses to view me as a client, no force on earth or in Ether can sway her. Why wouldn't I admit weakness to her, when she can rupture my skull with a gesture or reminisce over me after four million years? I am weak; I would learn from my strongers. |
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Post by foxurus on May 14, 2021 6:33:32 GMT
I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I lumped you and foxurus together as "people who would be less enthusiastic about Therapist Jones than I would," but that category probably includes most of humanity. Haha. I think if Jones tried to be a therapist she could be a good one (admittedly, for people who are not me), but I don't think she wants to. |
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