[2450] <"Mr. Carver is such a strange man.">

[imaginaryfriend]

Is he really strange, though? I think he's more disappointing and difficult to interact with.

[basser]

Kat n' Tony did a secret collaborate to use Zimmy to squish the Annies back together callin it now y'all.

[flowsthead]

Well, it's progress. I'm not necessarily happy with the thought process, but it does seem Paz has been reflecting on her actions. Baby steps.

[stclair]

also a quiet one.

[madjack]

Two words is all Jones needed to nudge the conversation along.

Paz using very possessive language in panel 1.

[arf]

Annie started it. (Which doesn't excuse Paz, but I think the feud will only end when Annie 'fesses up.)

[blackouthart]

Hopefully this now lays to rest the “Paz is secretly a sociopath” discussions. She was a rude teenager who was insecure about her first girlfriend and used some classic mean girl tactics in lieu of healthy communication. It happens. I’ve seen much, much worse in high school and magic wasn’t even in play there.

Yup, it does seem like a Jones/Anthony conversation will be the apex of this chapter.

[wies]

Heh, Jones is truly a Private Eye here.

And yeah, what blackouthart says: it seems this is leading to a conversation between Jones and Anthony.

[bicarbonat]

Jones is the only other person at the Court whose equanimity runs deeper than Anthony's, so their conversation should be... something.

In a crackier world, it would've been interesting to see Jones somehow as a predecessor of Tony, like the fire elementals were predecessors of Surma & Annie.

[speedwell]

Apr 5, 2021 8:29:25 GMT bicarbonat said:

Jones somehow as a predecessor of Tony, like the fire elementals were predecessors of Surma & Annie.

Mind... blown.

[blahzor]

Jones is really going out of her way to find out about Tony using this UncAnnie cover

[mzpx]

Love a Jones-centric chapter! And that picture of her in the last panel today.. All the awards to Tom, a sphinx is easier to read.

What I love about Jones is that this could go in oh-so-many different ways. Sure, we are finally seeing her in action, doing an investigation, but did the Court commission it as part of her consultory role, is she just curious, or was it Tony? Was the original target of the investigation really Annie, or was it Tony all along (people generally want to offer up information when someone is asking nicely and they have nothing to hide, so when they have nothing to say about Annie, they offer up the most interesting Annie-related information)?

Also, while we are at it, what motivates her? She seems to seek stability, as she has been shown to be annoyed at both the Court and the Forest (incidentally, I still wonder if she would have been able to withstand Coyote) for intentionally causing instability.

[mu695]

Second strip in a row with a strange title: "Page11".

[pyradonis]

I still think Kat just taking the Annie-fusion in stride is wildly out of character for her.

[lisanela]

What I find interesting is how everyone is saying this to Jones of all people. Many of the characters have legitimate reasons to distrust Anthony (especially Annie's friends) but I feel part of this distrust comes from how he appears so unemotional and detached, which is how Jones is all the time. In the present day everyone seems to like her(from Renard to Paz) even though half of them are aware a lot of her behavior is mimicry to build trust and that she might not even be capable of emotions. I wonder if this difference in treatment is going to be explored: like why did Eglamore never like Anthony when he seems the closest to Jones in personality?

[Gemminie]

Apr 5, 2021 11:36:53 GMT pyradonis said:

I still think Kat just taking the Annie-fusion in stride is wildly out of character for her.

Well, we don't know how much Annie has explained to Kat. Just because Tom's waiting for the right moment to explain it to us, that doesn't mean she didn't explain it to Kat.

I'm still of the opinion that the two Annies were never from alternate timelines and that Loup used a much simpler trick, just splitting Annie along a personality fracture plane of some kind, and Zimmy didn't actually undo the trick. Not that I think that the two Annies were an illusion or that single-Annie is now an illusion, but I think both Annies are still there, just internal in some way. Annie might just have explained that the two of her were always there inside her, in a way, and now they are again -- in a different way.

Also, I'm not sure Annie's telling Kat the whole truth (whatever it is). Annie's seen what happens when Kat wants to fix her but can't. Annie might have painted Kat a rosier picture than is necessarily the case, so Kat won't worry about her. I don't think Annie would lie outright to Kat, but she might not tell her everything so she doesn't worry.

[atteSmythe]

Apr 5, 2021 8:29:25 GMT bicarbonat said:

Jones is the only other person at the Court whose equanimity runs deeper than Anthony's, so their conversation should be... something.

In a crackier world, it would've been interesting to see Jones somehow as a predecessor of Tony, like the fire elementals were predecessors of Surma & Annie.

Then for symmetry, Jones should stride forcefully into Anthony’s office, put her hands on his desk, and demand, “What are you?”

[silicondream]

Apr 5, 2021 7:14:01 GMT flowsthead said:

Well, it's progress. I'm not necessarily happy with the thought process, but it does seem Paz has been reflecting on her actions. Baby steps.

Is she reflecting here, though? Almost nothing Paz says on this page is about her own actions or choices; it’s all about Kat and Annie and Tony and their responsibilities for one another’s feelings. She never questions whether it makes sense to blame Annie for being split in two by an outside force, nor whether attacking Annie for “making” Kat upset would even make Kat feel better.

Even when Paz says she needs to apologize to Annie, she makes it about Annie’s psychological fragility instead of about the inappropriateness of her own behavior. That feels a bit like a not-pology: “I’m sorry you got upset,” sort of thing.

But yes, baby steps.  It would be out of character for Paz to have some grand epiphany anyway.

Apr 5, 2021 7:44:55 GMT blackouthart said:

Hopefully this now lays to rest the “Paz is secretly a sociopath” discussions.

I don’t think Paz is a sociopath, but I do think she’s extremely conventional, somewhat controlling, and not very good at recognizing her own ability to hurt people. But as you say, she’s hardly unusual for a real-world teenager. She just stands out here because most of the other kids are basically superheroes.

[silicondream]

Apr 5, 2021 13:20:51 GMT atteSmythe said:

Then for symmetry, Jones should stride forcefully into Anthony’s office, put her hands on his desk, and demand, "What are you?"

Cut to Earth's far future.  Anthony, having just eroded out of a cliffside, looks down and realizes he's still in his socks.  He nods knowingly.  No explanation is ever provided.

[madjack]

Without checking the rest of the chapter's discussion threads, has anyone else put forward the idea that this might still all be an illusion?

The SomethingAwful GC thread members have hit on the twin ideas of:

'This is all an illusion in Annie's head and Jones represents Annie's own mental antennae suspecting something isn't right and following the thread.'

OR

'Everyone else has been sucked into the illusion of one Annie, and Jones, the only one not affected, is following the thread.'

The most convincing argument for this is all these separate characters seem to be bringing up Anthony's treatment of each of them being different, virtually unprompted, and it's starting to look like a subconscious trying to get a message out.

Either of these would go a ways to explaining why the chapter is called "The Mind Cage" but has so far done nothing but re-state Annie's parental issues over and over.

[bedinsis]

Apr 5, 2021 13:40:22 GMT madjack said:

Without checking the rest of the chapter's discussion threads, has anyone else put forward the idea that this might still all be an illusion?

The SomethingAwful GC thread members have hit on the twin ideas of:

'This is all still in Annie's head and Jones represents Annie's own mental antennae suspecting something isn't right and following the thread.'

OR

'Everyone else has been sucked into the illusion of one Annie, and Jones, the only one not affected, is following the thread.'

The most convincing argument for this is all these separate characters seem to be bringing up Anthony's treatment of each of them being different, virtually unprompted, is starting to look like a subconscious trying to get a message out.

Either of these would go a ways to explaining why the chapter is called "The Mind Cage" but has so far done nothing but re-state Annie's parental issues over and over.

I don't know if it has been brought up, but I can say that it is not uncommon for the theory "This is all an illusion" to pop up in the discussions. So far the track record for that being true is... I think 0. Normally there is something in the illustrations to indicate that what we're seeing is not true; I don't think that has happened in this chapter, in particular not when the omniscient narrator label a scene as set "Earlier".

[madjack]

Apr 5, 2021 13:52:02 GMT bedinsis said:

I don't know if it has been brought up, but I can say that it is not uncommon for the theory "This is all an illusion" to pop up in the discussions. So far the track record for that being true is... I think 0. Normally there is something in the illustrations to indicate that what we're seeing is not true; I don't think that has happened in this chapter, in particular not when the omniscient narrator label a scene as set "Earlier".

I really like the idea of a mental easter-egg hunt, but that is a good point about the narration structure not meshing well with the 'it's all an illusion' thing.

[DonDueed]

Apr 5, 2021 7:44:55 GMT blackouthart said:

Hopefully this now lays to rest the “Paz is secretly a sociopath” discussions. She was a rude teenager who was insecure about her first girlfriend and used some classic mean girl tactics in lieu of healthy communication. It happens. I’ve seen much, much worse in high school and magic wasn’t even in play there.

... that you know of.

[fia]

I really really really hope we're finally going to get SOME clue about Anthony's past (Antimony's grandparents?!)

It would be so wild if Annie and Jones are related through Tony. So insane. But it would explain why Jones seems a little preferential toward Annie sometimes (warning her of danger and such). And why Annie is so "important to the Court". And why she was so 'attractive' to ghosts and the psychopomps.......... hm. If she's related to both Jones AND a fire elemental, that's huge.

[alevice]

Apr 5, 2021 7:05:25 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Is he really strange, though? I think he's more disappointing and difficult to interact with.

From their perspective, it likely he is strange. Most of the young uns there are mostly familiar how he basically verbally obliterated Annie in their first remeeting and then made her roll back a full year and isolate her from everyone else basically. Then (from their eyes I mean) he sends her daughter to meet with Ysengrin who essentially had declared war to the court. Which caused two Annies to be around. And then he tries to be quiet normal dad somehow.

[alevice]

Apr 5, 2021 11:37:19 GMT lisanela said:

What I find interesting is how everyone is saying this to Jones of all people. Many of the characters have legitimate reasons to distrust Anthony (especially Annie's friends) but I feel part of this distrust comes from how he appears so unemotional and detached, which is how Jones is all the time. In the present day everyone seems to like her(from Renard to Paz) even though half of them are aware a lot of her behavior is mimicry to build trust and that she might not even be capable of emotions. I wonder if this difference in treatment is going to be explored: like why did Eglamore never like Anthony when he seems the closest to Jones in personality?

Anthony usually is far more closed to discussion than Jones. "I... have work to do". Jones may not express emotions, but she is, for all purposes, more open than Anthony

[Corvo]

At risk of sounding pedantic, this conversation feels somewhat artificial.

"It's a little personal, so let me go into detail about my feelings on it and on other things too, odd lady I barely know".

[0o0f]

Apr 5, 2021 14:50:37 GMT alevice said:

Apr 5, 2021 11:37:19 GMT lisanela said:

What I find interesting is how everyone is saying this to Jones of all people. Many of the characters have legitimate reasons to distrust Anthony (especially Annie's friends) but I feel part of this distrust comes from how he appears so unemotional and detached, which is how Jones is all the time. In the present day everyone seems to like her(from Renard to Paz) even though half of them are aware a lot of her behavior is mimicry to build trust and that she might not even be capable of emotions. I wonder if this difference in treatment is going to be explored: like why did Eglamore never like Anthony when he seems the closest to Jones in personality?

Anthony usually is far more closed to discussion than Jones. "I... have work to do". Jones may not express emotions, but she is, for all purposes, more open than Anthony

Also, as far as we know, Anthony is a human. (Inb4 the theories here are proven true and he's not) But if he's supposed to be human, it would make the lack of humanness more off-putting. And yes, Jones is nicer than Anthony, even if it is an act (and at least if she lacks emotions, it means she also doesn't have any malice in her, which Anthony might, so his coldness seems more cruel). And in the case of Eglamore it seems like Jones raised him as well, so it seems natural he would feel attached to her.

[blahzor]

Apr 5, 2021 14:42:45 GMT fia said:

I really really really hope we're finally going to get SOME clue about Anthony's past (Antimony's grandparents?!)

It would be so wild if Annie and Jones are related through Tony. So insane. But it would explain why Jones seems a little preferential toward Annie sometimes (warning her of danger and such). And why Annie is so "important to the Court". And why she was so 'attractive' to ghosts and the psychopomps.......... hm. If she's related to both Jones AND a fire elemental, that's huge.

he's an descendant of a TV that's off, it's why he has no emotions

[exterminatecake]

I gotta say, I'm loving the "there are still, internally, two Antimonies" line of theorizing, and I hope it does go this way.

I'm part of a plural system; for those who don't know, this is when for some reason (usually trauma), someone's psyche is unable to form one coherent identity, and instead forms multiple, parallel identities, who have their own perspectives, desires, emotions, etc. (You may have heard of Dissociative Identity Disorder/DID before, which is a psychiatric condition where plurality is a symptom.) Annie's narrative really resonates with me as a plural narrative; the way she dissociated immediately when her father came back, the way she purposefully "cut off" a part of herself in response, and then later on, the way the narrative literally split her into two separate people.

Annie's character has always had an aspect of duality and purposefully dissociated parts, and I'd be incredibly excited to see this specific part of the story resolve with some form of "the two internal pieces of myself learning to work together" because of how much that genuinely resonates as a plural experience. I'm pretty sure Tom didn't do this on purpose, it's probably one of those cases of "accidental rep," but honestly, I've never seen a narrative like this in media presented so respectfully and in such a directly relatable way (especially exploring a traumatic experience's role in this kind of psychological experience without devolving into voyeurism), so I'm excited no matter what.