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Post by Gemminie on Apr 2, 2021 20:32:02 GMT
I got two questions: one, purely out of curiosity, how does one swing an ad hoc pluralization like "Antimonys" in Spanish? Does it come off as oddly as it does in English? Two, what in heck is Jones' theory here. Does she think one of the Antimonae took off to spy on the Court and they're covering it up with a hilariously bad "oh uh we're just suddenly one person again for no reason, haha weird"? Or does she know something about Tony's conditional social skills that might make her suspicious about the nature of the whole event? Personally I'm partial to Loup having done some kinda trojan horse thing where Forest Annie is just like a doll made of mud, but all the supernatural creatures acting like they know what happened throws a wrench in that. Sidenote: Do we know for sure if Loup is bound by Coyote's rule of never lying? I'm not a native Spanish speaker, but I did take years of classes back in high school/college, though I haven't kept up with it much. The Spanish word for antimony is "antimonio," a masculine noun, so this is all dependent on how one would turn that into a name in Spanish, especially a name for a girl. The path of least resistance would be to just call her "Antimonia," so the obvious plural would be "Antimonias." Había dos Antimonias, pero ahora solo hay una Antimonia. Again, not a native speaker, but that comes off pretty smoothly. I think Jones' theory is to follow the evidence. No evidence exists that one Antimony has just gone into hiding, so it's all about how the now-singular one of her is doing, and she's gathering evidence about that. I was thinking earlier that the Court was going to start a rumor campaign about Annie's sanity, but I don't think that anymore – I think perhaps someone higher-up (maybe even Tony himself) expressed some concern, so without being asked to, Jones has taken it upon herself to look into it, and as she did so she discovered that Tony had been treating the two Annies differently, which (in my current theory) she hadn't previously been aware of. So now she's pursuing two lines of inquiry, gathering data from which to form a conclusion, and we're watching how other people react as she does this. In the end, she will go to Tony with what she's discovered, and in my theory it'll be more about him than Annie. I don't think we have any assurances that Loup never lies. I'm not sure we've quite caught him in a lie yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if he can lie all he wants. Especially to himself. |
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Post by grahamf on Apr 2, 2021 20:45:12 GMT
Jones is so old, she could probably speak/read/write many of the world's forgotten languages. If this leads to a chapter where Team Gunnerkrigg goes to the ruins of Atlantis or has to decipher inscriptions on an ancient artifact, it would be pretty awesome. It would indeed. However, don't forget that Jones has made it a rule for herself to never tell humans scientific or (pre-)historical facts unless they found out by themselves. She probably started that rule the third time she was burned as a witch or something. |
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Post by Per on Apr 2, 2021 22:36:19 GMT
Los Antimonios, literally "the antimonies." Also the name of the mariachi band famous for their "No quiero oír hablar de tus millones de novios" cover. |
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Post by blahzor on Apr 2, 2021 23:22:50 GMT
People I trust more than Paz in this comic
1) Cookie Monster
2) Basil
3)
end of list
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Post by todd on Apr 2, 2021 23:53:13 GMT
The real danger isn't etheric beings like Loup lying. The real danger is their telling the truth - kind of, but in misleading ways.
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Post by Gemminie on Apr 3, 2021 1:29:38 GMT
Jones is so old, she could probably speak/read/write many of the world's forgotten languages. If this leads to a chapter where Team Gunnerkrigg goes to the ruins of Atlantis or has to decipher inscriptions on an ancient artifact, it would be pretty awesome. It would indeed. However, don't forget that Jones has made it a rule for herself to never tell humans scientific or (pre-)historical facts unless they found out by themselves. That is exactly precisely what I was going to say. My theory about why she has that rule is ... science. If there's evidence for a conclusion, Jones doesn't need to speak. And if there isn't evidence, anything Jones says wouldn't be science; it'd be taking her word for it, which is a lot like religion. Same thing with dead/forgotten languages: if there are enough fragments of it to translate it, translators don't need Jones' help, and if there aren't, what evidence do they have that Jones isn't just making it up? Jones might not be above putting her thumb on the scales a bit, though – like reading an inscription that tells her where to tell the archeologists to dig for the evidence they need. |
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Post by Igniz on Apr 3, 2021 3:30:18 GMT
I'm not surprised that Jones speaks Spanish, but I am kind of surprised that her Spanish is not five centuries out of date or something  Well, it's not like she's been frozen for the last few centuries... as far as we know, that is. Also: Jones' word choices here are interesting. She uses "can you tell me" instead of "would you" in panel #2 and offers Paz a way to navigate the conversation around the details of the confrontation-with-Antimonies in panel #4. Both of those choices imho increased the chances of Paz opening up. The conversation is translated from Spanish, where both have the same meaning and can be used interchangeably, the difference being that "podrías" ("would you") is more formal than "puedes" ("can you"), the latter being used in more casual contexts. As she is referring to Paz as "tú" instead of "usted" in the first panel, her choice of words in the second is a natural extension of that. I got two questions: one, purely out of curiosity, how does one swing an ad hoc pluralization like "Antimonys" in Spanish? Does it come off as oddly as it does in English? It's not odd in Spanish, and neither is in English. First of all, in Spanish, as Gemminie already pointed out, the translation would be "Antimonia", being a feminine name. Still, Jones using "Antimony" as is, even when speaking in a language other than English, is correct, as "Antimonia" doesn't really exists in Spanish; while proper names should not get translated, it is acceptable to use their equivalents or derivatives ("Juan" for "John", "Jorge" for "George", "Pablo" for "Paul"...), and in this specific case there's not really one. Now, regarding the pluralization itself, the subject of such is not an object (the chemical element), but a proper name. Taking this into account, the plural "Antimonys" is correct, in the same vein as the plural of "Anthony" is "Anthonys" and not "Anthonei", "Jennys" intead of "Jennae", "Bettys" and not "Bettae", and so on. By the way, I'm a native Spanish speaker (I'm from Mexicoland), with a C2 level in English. |
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Post by antiyonder on Apr 3, 2021 4:39:44 GMT
Jones is so old, she could probably speak/read/write many of the world's forgotten languages. If this leads to a chapter where Team Gunnerkrigg goes to the ruins of Atlantis or has to decipher inscriptions on an ancient artifact, it would be pretty awesome. It would indeed. However, don't forget that Jones has made it a rule for herself to never tell humans scientific or (pre-)historical facts unless they found out by themselves. Guess she'd be a fan of the Watchers from Marvel:-D. |
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Post by maxptc on Apr 3, 2021 5:30:35 GMT
I don't know of this is wild spec, but the idea that Jones is about to give Paz a "ignore the haters" pep talk after she gets done questioning her just entered my head and won't leave.
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 3, 2021 10:07:50 GMT
Sidenote: Do we know for sure if Loup is bound by Coyote's rule of never lying? The way Loup talks about it here suggests that it is a speciality of Coyote.
I don't know of this is wild spec, but the idea that Jones is about to give Paz a "ignore the haters" pep talk after she gets done questioning her just entered my head and won't leave. Which haters? As far as we know, all the haters are people reading the comic, but none inside the comic. |
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ffkonoko
New Member
I've been a New Member for 9 years.
Posts: 44
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Post by ffkonoko on Apr 3, 2021 13:43:46 GMT
Interesting that people here are taking Paz at her word. I am interpreting her facial expressions in the last panels as an attempt at deception. Interesting decision. Everything she said there matched perfectly with past events, and surprise then avoiding eye contact while talking about something she did badly, seems to match up perfectly too. What sort of deception are you thinking she is doing? Secretly didn't really yell at Annie because of concern over Kat, and thinks she did the right thing? |
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Post by maxptc on Apr 3, 2021 14:16:01 GMT
Sidenote: Do we know for sure if Loup is bound by Coyote's rule of never lying? The way Loup talks about it here suggests that it is a speciality of Coyote. I don't know of this is wild spec, but the idea that Jones is about to give Paz a "ignore the haters" pep talk after she gets done questioning her just entered my head and won't leave. Wich haters? As far as we know, all the haters are people reading the comic, but none inside the comic. Poor word choice, haters. That completelyi.plies other people. "Ignore that voice in your head making you ashamed, it's not a big deal." Would have been more apt to my thought. |
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Post by bedinsis on Apr 3, 2021 14:28:32 GMT
Interesting that people here are taking Paz at her word. I am interpreting her facial expressions in the last panels as an attempt at deception. Interesting decision. Everything she said there matched perfectly with past events, and surprise then avoiding eye contact while talking about something she did badly, seems to match up perfectly too. What sort of deception are you thinking she is doing? Secretly didn't really yell at Annie because of concern over Kat, and thinks she did the right thing? I earlier wrote a post asking more or less the same thing. I deleted it after I figured out one way the last panel can be read as an attempt at deception. If one reads it as Paz thinking she has not done anything wrong, then the "handled badly" can be read as attempting to do the sorry/not sorry-formulation common when people have want to do the performance of apologizing while actually not acknowledging they have done anything wrong ("Sorry that you feel that way" being the most common expression). The "What I did was very wrong." expression would then be an outright falsehood. I don't believe it personally, but I hardly am the best to judge character. |
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Post by hp on Apr 3, 2021 15:25:17 GMT
I don't think Paz is trying to deceive Jones. IIRC she agreed with Kat (in that talk they had by the sea/lake) that she handled her concern badly. So she's not telling any lies in those panels... She 's just embarrassed by admiting she was out of line |
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mu695
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Post by mu695 on Apr 3, 2021 16:27:37 GMT
What's up with the page titles recently? This is "Chapter 80: Page10" [sic]. Similarly, we've still got no page 33 in the previous chapter.
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Post by novia on Apr 3, 2021 16:30:03 GMT
Interesting that people here are taking Paz at her word. I am interpreting her facial expressions in the last panels as an attempt at deception. Interesting decision. Everything she said there matched perfectly with past events, and surprise then avoiding eye contact while talking about something she did badly, seems to match up perfectly too. What sort of deception are you thinking she is doing? Secretly didn't really yell at Annie because of concern over Kat, and thinks she did the right thing? "Hello older authority figure, oh yeah, I've definitely reflected on my past actions and come to the conclusion that what I did was wrong. But I'll try to save face by saying I handled it badly, like it was all just a mistake and not a premeditated confrontation that I brought two friends to as backup. No no, there's no need to do an investigation or to recommend any disciplinary action. You see, I've already been beating myself up soooo much that any intervention is completely unnecessary." Yes, I know that Jones wouldn't be the one handing out detentions to students, but does Paz know that? |
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Post by flowsthead on Apr 3, 2021 17:41:56 GMT
Interesting decision. Everything she said there matched perfectly with past events, and surprise then avoiding eye contact while talking about something she did badly, seems to match up perfectly too. What sort of deception are you thinking she is doing? Secretly didn't really yell at Annie because of concern over Kat, and thinks she did the right thing? I earlier wrote a post asking more or less the same thing. I deleted it after I figured out one way the last panel can be read as an attempt at deception. If one reads it as Paz thinking she has not done anything wrong, then the "handled badly" can be read as attempting to do the sorry/not sorry-formulation common when people have want to do the performance of apologizing while actually not acknowledging they have done anything wrong ("Sorry that you feel that way" being the most common expression). The "What I did was very wrong." expression would then be an outright falsehood. I don't believe it personally, but I hardly am the best to judge character. While that is certainly a possibility, the other possibility I was thinking of was, "Kat didn't like the way I handled it, and I don't want to make Kat upset, so I handled it badly." Because in the conversation with Kat earlier, Paz let Kat do all the talking, and didn't talk about Annie in a sympathetic or empathetic way once. Not that I've decided one way or the other. It's all up in the air at the moment. To a certain extent, I don't think we'll know until the next time Paz and Annie hang out, unless Paz is really explicit about it on the next page. |
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 3, 2021 18:29:24 GMT
[...] Yes, I know that Jones wouldn't be the one handing out detentions to students, but does Paz know that? I always read the last panel here as Jones doing exactly that. It should be noted, however, that during this time Jones was also Annie's teacher (in the medium lessons). |
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Post by todd on Apr 4, 2021 0:19:51 GMT
My theory about why she has that rule is ... science. If there's evidence for a conclusion, Jones doesn't need to speak. And if there isn't evidence, anything Jones says wouldn't be science; it'd be taking her word for it, which is a lot like religion. Same thing with dead/forgotten languages: if there are enough fragments of it to translate it, translators don't need Jones' help, and if there aren't, what evidence do they have that Jones isn't just making it up? Also, it wouldn't be a good idea to let the humans become dependent on her; they might become lazy and stop trying to work things out themselves. |
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Post by apache on Apr 4, 2021 1:53:28 GMT
Weird, I always thought Paz was Brazilian, or Portugese.
Hmm.
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Post by Gemminie on Apr 4, 2021 4:00:14 GMT
[...] Yes, I know that Jones wouldn't be the one handing out detentions to students, but does Paz know that? I always read the last panel here as Jones doing exactly that. It should be noted, however, that during this time Jones was also Annie's teacher (in the medium lessons). And Annie did in fact get detention in spades, most likely from Jones. |
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Post by Gemminie on Apr 4, 2021 4:37:49 GMT
The more I look at this page, the more I think Jones' next question will be, "So how did Kat deal with the situation?" (After, perhaps, something like "I will not decide for you what is right or wrong. You will have to examine that for yourself.")
What happens next depends a great deal on how much Paz knows and feels like divulging. It sounds as if Kat was going to explain everything about the Norns to Paz in chapter 78 (Tom just didn't want to rehash everything that had just happened), so she knows all of that. But how much will she tell Jones? My guess is something like, "Well, she was really worried about something she found out about Annie, but she went to some friends of her mother, and ... the details sounded complicated. You'd have to talk to Kat if you wanted a good explanation. But I can tell that she's much happier now, and less worried about Annie!"
Then, if Paz says something like that, Jones will be off to talk to Kat. But if Jones talks to Kat, will Kat tell Annie that Jones came to talk to her before the scene at the start of this chapter?
Or, maybe Jones will ask the names of these friends of Anja's, and Paz will say, "She said one of them was named ... Brinnie? Somebody Kat's mom knew from school?" And then Jones will be off to talk to Brinnie. I don't doubt she has some way of doing that.
And I'm probably entirely wrong, but it's fun to speculate.
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kaz
New Member
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Post by kaz on Apr 4, 2021 6:35:22 GMT
It would indeed. However, don't forget that Jones has made it a rule for herself to never tell humans scientific or (pre-)historical facts unless they found out by themselves. She probably started that rule the third time she was burned as a witch or something. The second and third times happened when she didn't burn properly the first time. |
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Post by King Mir on Apr 4, 2021 15:45:16 GMT
This page make me wonder... Could Jones and Annie have a conversation in ancient Egyptian? Annie knows a thing or two from the Guides. If it's enough to talk to Gamma, maybe it's enough to talk to Jones in something really ancient.
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Post by saardvark on Apr 4, 2021 18:46:21 GMT
This page make me wonder... Could Jones and Annie have a conversation in ancient Egyptian? Annie knows a thing or two from the Guides. If it's enough to talk to Gamma, maybe it's enough to talk to Jones in something really ancient. I think it quite likely Jones can speak ancient Egyptian. She is interested in humans, so it stands to reason that she'd have visited the major civilizations of the day. Since Annie has picked up some Egyptian from the pomps, its likely that Jones would think it OK (not disclosing any unknown knowledge) to converse with her in it. |
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Post by warrl on Apr 4, 2021 19:23:02 GMT
Also mildly awkward that "antimonio" is masculine... when it's the name of a female would they use the obvious feminine form?
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Post by warrl on Apr 4, 2021 19:39:22 GMT
Weird, I always thought Paz was Brazilian, or Portugese. Hmm. Paz is Galician. There are actually two areas of Europe historically named Galicia. The wrong one is in Ukraine (and Galatea, which is in Turkey, is also not where she's from). The correct one, and also the only one where the name remains in common current usage, is the northwest corner of Spain. You thinking she is Brazilian or Portuguese is understandable, because the Galician language is closer to Portuguese than to Castilian or Catalan (the other two official languages of Spain that are Romance languages - Basque is also an official language but isn't even Indo-European). In fact some linguists say that Galician and Northern Portuguese are two dialects of one language, and Southern Portuguese another language. (Others say that Galician is its own language while Northern and Southern Portuguese are two dialects of one language. I get the feeling the dividing lines are somewhat arbitrary and subjective.) |
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Post by alevice on Apr 5, 2021 14:56:42 GMT
Weird, I always thought Paz was Brazilian, or Portugese. Hmm. She has spoken multiple times in spanish. I would have understood if you had said any from of SP LatAm, but she has never talked in portugese as far as i recall |
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