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Post by alevice on Apr 8, 2021 12:33:12 GMT
If this was just meant to be an internal conflict represented in physical form, it was completely unnecessary to introduce the plot point about there being three Annies. For that to be introduced and left unaddressed it would be, put flatly, bad writing. We can't say for sure whether it's bad writing yet, because the comic is not over yet and it could yet be addressed, but you can't blame people for getting anxious about it when the more we see the less likely it looks like it is going to be addressed. It's been two and a half years; an entire book has come and gone and we're now being told that Kat, the character who knows about the three Annies, thinks everything is just fine now. As it is, the main character that readers have been following for a decade appears to be dead (for all we know) and replaced with a Loup-like fusion of two other girls from other timelines, which is deeply unsettling. "Let the reader imagine their own resolution to that" is a total cop-out. (Yes, late response, I'm just now catching up and found this particular comment irksome enough to reply to because it handwaves away all responsibility for the author to write a story where the major twists they throw in actually have meaning.) I mean, I'm not trying to say Tom shouldn't tell us what's up eventually, just that I think the multiple timeline Annies thing isn't the only answer, and the details of how they merged back together without it being deaths aren't that significant, which is my whole thing. I get it, this is character deaths to alot of people, maybe even Tom, I just don't see it that way. I think Annie was always just Annie split in two, a trick of Loups. Even if I'm wrong, I still don't think either verison is dead, they are at worst pulling of a more functional Firestorm situation, who is a totally okay character. The whole twice the firepower thing seems to lead it was not a split annie. She would have kept the firepower she had prior to loups visit. |
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Post by maxptc on Apr 8, 2021 13:03:57 GMT
I mean, I'm not trying to say Tom shouldn't tell us what's up eventually, just that I think the multiple timeline Annies thing isn't the only answer, and the details of how they merged back together without it being deaths aren't that significant, which is my whole thing. I get it, this is character deaths to alot of people, maybe even Tom, I just don't see it that way. I think Annie was always just Annie split in two, a trick of Loups. Even if I'm wrong, I still don't think either verison is dead, they are at worst pulling of a more functional Firestorm situation, who is a totally okay character. The whole twice the firepower thing seems to lead it was not a split annie. She would have kept the firepower she had prior to loups visit. I still don't agree with that, if they are the same Annie from the same timeline split that doesn't mean there weren't two of them, and when those two fuse would still have twice the fire power. The split theory doesn't mean the fix put them back to the same state as before. But honestly I'm kinda just done talking about it for now, I don't feel like I or others have enough to be doing anything other then speculation here. Im happy with the resolution so far, I'm sure we will get more comics on the the situation, Imma stop posting about this topic until we see more where it goes. |
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Post by autumnn on Apr 8, 2021 21:45:26 GMT
The possibility of there being three Annies was never brought up in the comic. It was pure forum speculation which took up a life on its own. Eh? Salasmel's interpreter said as much; there are two new Annies in the comic's timeline, neither of which are originally from it, which means there's canonically three Annies - these two shifted Annies, plus the original Annie from this timeline that is supposed to be here, but who has disappeared. |
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Post by flowsthead on Apr 8, 2021 22:12:18 GMT
The possibility of there being three Annies was never brought up in the comic. It was pure forum speculation which took up a life on its own. Eh? Salasmel's interpreter said as much; there are two new Annies in the comic's timeline, neither of which are originally from it, which means there's canonically three Annies - these two shifted Annies, plus the original Annie from this timeline that is supposed to be here, but who has disappeared. The other theory in the forums was that because Kat saved Annie with the Tik-Toks travelling through time, no Annie is supposed to exist, so there are only two Annies. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 8, 2021 22:18:06 GMT
The possibility of there being three Annies was never brought up in the comic. It was pure forum speculation which took up a life on its own. Eh? Salasmel's interpreter said as much; there are two new Annies in the comic's timeline, neither of which are originally from it, which means there's canonically three Annies - these two shifted Annies, plus the original Annie from this timeline that is supposed to be here, but who has disappeared. This stuff's tricky on its own but I think the author is also trying to make a point about change/growth and identity that is also tricky. It doesn't necessarily follow that there is a correct Antimony Prime out there somewhere waiting to be discovered/recovered just because all current Antimonies are known to have been shifted. It may turn out to be the case but I think now that Zeta's made Antimony 4 from Antimony 2 and Antimony 3 I think it's less likely. |
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 8, 2021 23:46:52 GMT
The possibility of there being three Annies was never brought up in the comic. It was pure forum speculation which took up a life on its own. Eh? Salasmel's interpreter said as much; there are two new Annies in the comic's timeline, neither of which are originally from it, which means there's canonically three Annies - these two shifted Annies, plus the original Annie from this timeline that is supposed to be here, but who has disappeared. No, it doesn't mean that there should be another Annie, and doesn't mean that both of them were shifted, either. It just means that for some reason neither of them was supposed to be there. By the way, that question was even adressed by Kat in-comic, and she came to the conclusion that no Annie was supposed to be there because Annie was supposed to die a few years earlier by falling from the bridge. |
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Post by autumnn on Apr 9, 2021 5:47:42 GMT
By the way, that question was even adressed by Kat in-comic, and she came to the conclusion that no Annie was supposed to be there because Annie was supposed to die a few years earlier by falling from the bridge. Ah, you are correct. I usually only binge the comic once every few months, and I somehow completely forgot about dialogue since the last time I checked in. I remembered her building the bird and saving Annie, of course, but not that. My bad! |
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Post by DonDueed on Apr 9, 2021 14:11:38 GMT
Eh? Salasmel's interpreter said as much; there are two new Annies in the comic's timeline, neither of which are originally from it, which means there's canonically three Annies - these two shifted Annies, plus the original Annie from this timeline that is supposed to be here, but who has disappeared. No, it doesn't mean that there should be another Annie, and doesn't mean that both of them were shifted, either. It just means that for some reason neither of them was supposed to be there. By the way, that question was even adressed by Kat in-comic, and she came to the conclusion that no Annie was supposed to be there because Annie was supposed to die a few years earlier by falling from the bridge. In other words, the third Annie was an inaccurate interpretation of the interpreter's interpretation and now I'm tired of typing all those t's, r's, and e's. |
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Post by Gemminie on Apr 9, 2021 21:00:09 GMT
The possibility of there being three Annies was never brought up in the comic. It was pure forum speculation which took up a life on its own. Eh? Salasmel's interpreter said as much; there are two new Annies in the comic's timeline, neither of which are originally from it, which means there's canonically three Annies - these two shifted Annies, plus the original Annie from this timeline that is supposed to be here, but who has disappeared. I don't think he says that at all. It might, in fact, be written that way to deliberately mislead the characters (and readers). Interpreter: "Huh ... are you sisters? This is only a single-use contract." Saslamel: (something) Interpreter: "Oh, you've been shifted. That's okay then." We don't actually know exactly what Saslamel said, but it's something to the effect that the Annies have been "shifted," which isn't explained until later. Saslamel may be able to see that they're both in some sort of not-belonging-here state, but does that usually mean alternate timelines? Can it mean something else (for example, she's meant to be dead, or she's only alive due to a closed timelike loop that hasn't been closed yet)? And he seems to be making the assumption that there are two of them because of their "shiftedness," which might be jumping to conclusions. It might not occur to him that they're both shifted and something else, considering that being shifted could in some cases explain why there are two – but is this one of those cases? Kat doesn't ask for more information about that yet, focusing on other things until the Interpreter's about to leave, when she asks: Kat: Oh, wait! You said something about Annie being "shifted," earlier. Do you know what happened to her? Interpreter: Well, Miss Antimony, it seems that you have been shifted out of your timeline and brought here. He's saying nothing about there being two of them now. In fact, he's talking about Annie in the singular, as if he's forgotten there are even two of them. And he's continuing on the assumption that the same thing caused Annie to be both shifted and doubled. Interpreter: If you've been interacting with Coyote it's no surprise, but he's really not supposed to do things like that. Saslamel: (something) Interpreter: Oh, Coyote was killed? How unfortunate. Kat: Woah wait, are you talking about ... alternate timelines and dimensions and stuff? Interpreter: That's right! Normally there is no need for more than one timeline or dimension, but some creatures, like Coyote, can create them if they wish. It's very inconvenient. Kat: What happens to the original timeline if someone is ... shifted? And now Kat's gone extremely personal with this. Her mind has seized on the possibility that there's some version of her best friend that's somehow ceased to exist. This disturbs her greatly, and she's fixated on that, not considering that there might be other possibilities. Interpreter: It continues along, but the person who is bumped just doesn't exist anymore. Kat: Are you saying there's a timeline out there where Annie never comes back from the Forest? Interpreter: I don't know the circumstances of your case but ... yes, that could happen. As I said, it's inconvenient. He's not saying that's what happened – in fact, he explicitly says he doesn't know if that's what happened in this case. He's just saying it could happen. Kat: Can you do anything about it? Interpreter: Sorry, this really is not our department. You need Temporal Affairs. But they are very reclusive, by appointment only. Or you could talk to the creature that shifted your friend in the first place. Loup, was it? I don't know where the Interpreter's getting his information, as Saslamel's not talking to him, but he somehow knows Loup's name. Maybe what Saslamel said earlier was something like, "Coyote was killed, devoured by Ysengrin to form Loup." But even before that, the Interpreter said Annie had been interacting with Coyote, but I'm not seeing where anyone told him that. Was it Saslamel again? How does he know? Maybe he knows Annie has at least one contract involving Coyote (the tooth)? Anyway, Kat then asks the fateful question: Kat: Can you ... can you at least tell us which Annie shouldn't be in this timeline? Interpreter: Well, it seems that neither of them should be here. Kat: What do you mean? Interpreter: Sorry, this really isn't our department. Anyway, our business here is concluded. And he's gone, leaving Kat frustrated, but his answer was "neither of them should be here," not "they're both from other timelines." It's still wide open to interpretation – the simplest theory is that Annie was already "shifted" for some other reason before Loup did whatever he did, whether it involved alternate timelines or not. That invites a whole family of theories that don't involve a third Annie existing at all, and there's no direct evidence of a third Annie anywhere. When Brinnie later confirms that the Annies are shifted, she could easily be making the same assumption that Saslamel did – the same thing caused both the doubledness and the shiftedness. You see a weird thing, you have a way of seeing one possible cause, and you assume that's the cause. Occam's Razor isn't always right – or wrong. So all we need is a theory that explains the facts: - There were two Annies, and their memories were the same up to the moment she entered the Forest
- Their personalities were subtly different, however
- Tony reacted differently to each Annie
- The Annies both appeared shifted to both Saslamel and Brinnie
- The Norns denied that the two Annies were a "temporal affair," and imply that there's usually only one Annie in most iterations of whatever time loop is occurring
- Zimmy was able to undo (in at least a physical sense) whatever Loup did to cause two Annies to exist
- The recombined Annie appears to have much stronger fire powers – at least double their previous strength, if not more
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Post by ysenfrown on Apr 9, 2021 21:12:07 GMT
Eh? Salasmel's interpreter said as much; there are two new Annies in the comic's timeline, neither of which are originally from it, which means there's canonically three Annies - these two shifted Annies, plus the original Annie from this timeline that is supposed to be here, but who has disappeared. I don't think he says that at all. It might, in fact, be written that way to deliberately mislead the characters (and readers). Interpreter: "Huh ... are you sisters? This is only a single-use contract." Saslamel: (something) Interpreter: "Oh, you've been shifted. That's okay then." We don't actually know exactly what Saslamel said, but it's something to the effect that the Annies have been "shifted," which isn't explained until later. Saslamel may be able to see that they're both in some sort of not-belonging-here state, but does that usually mean alternate timelines? Can it mean something else (for example, she's meant to be dead, or she's only alive due to a closed timelike loop that hasn't been closed yet)? And he seems to be making the assumption that there are two of them because of their "shiftedness," which might be jumping to conclusions. It might not occur to him that they're both shifted and something else, considering that being shifted could in some cases explain why there are two – but is this one of those cases? Kat doesn't ask for more information about that yet, focusing on other things until the Interpreter's about to leave, when she asks: Kat: Oh, wait! You said something about Annie being "shifted," earlier. Do you know what happened to her? Interpreter: Well, Miss Antimony, it seems that you have been shifted out of your timeline and brought here. He's saying nothing about there being two of them now. In fact, he's talking about Annie in the singular, as if he's forgotten there are even two of them. And he's continuing on the assumption that the same thing caused Annie to be both shifted and doubled. Interpreter: If you've been interacting with Coyote it's no surprise, but he's really not supposed to do things like that. Saslamel: (something) Interpreter: Oh, Coyote was killed? How unfortunate. Kat: Woah wait, are you talking about ... alternate timelines and dimensions and stuff? Interpreter: That's right! Normally there is no need for more than one timeline or dimension, but some creatures, like Coyote, can create them if they wish. It's very inconvenient. Kat: What happens to the original timeline if someone is ... shifted? And now Kat's gone extremely personal with this. Her mind has seized on the possibility that there's some version of her best friend that's somehow ceased to exist. This disturbs her greatly, and she's fixated on that, not considering that there might be other possibilities. Interpreter: It continues along, but the person who is bumped just doesn't exist anymore. Kat: Are you saying there's a timeline out there where Annie never comes back from the Forest? Interpreter: I don't know the circumstances of your case but ... yes, that could happen. As I said, it's inconvenient. He's not saying that's what happened – in fact, he explicitly says he doesn't know if that's what happened in this case. He's just saying it could happen. Kat: Can you do anything about it? Interpreter: Sorry, this really is not our department. You need Temporal Affairs. But they are very reclusive, by appointment only. Or you could talk to the creature that shifted your friend in the first place. Loup, was it? I don't know where the Interpreter's getting his information, as Saslamel's not talking to him, but he somehow knows Loup's name. Maybe what Saslamel said earlier was something like, "Coyote was killed, devoured by Ysengrin to form Loup." But even before that, the Interpreter said Annie had been interacting with Coyote, but I'm not seeing where anyone told him that. Was it Saslamel again? How does he know? Maybe he knows Annie has at least one contract involving Coyote (the tooth)? Anyway, Kat then asks the fateful question: Kat: Can you ... can you at least tell us which Annie shouldn't be in this timeline? Interpreter: Well, it seems that neither of them should be here. Kat: What do you mean? Interpreter: Sorry, this really isn't our department. Anyway, our business here is concluded. And he's gone, leaving Kat frustrated, but his answer was "neither of them should be here," not "they're both from other timelines." It's still wide open to interpretation – the simplest theory is that Annie was already "shifted" for some other reason before Loup did whatever he did, whether it involved alternate timelines or not. That invites a whole family of theories that don't involve a third Annie existing at all, and there's no direct evidence of a third Annie anywhere. When Brinnie later confirms that the Annies are shifted, she could easily be making the same assumption that Saslamel did – the same thing caused both the doubledness and the shiftedness. You see a weird thing, you have a way of seeing one possible cause, and you assume that's the cause. Occam's Razor isn't always right – or wrong. So all we need is a theory that explains the facts: - There were two Annies, and their memories were the same up to the moment she entered the Forest
- Their personalities were subtly different, however
- Tony reacted differently to each Annie
- The Annies both appeared shifted to both Saslamel and Brinnie
- The Norns denied that the two Annies were a "temporal affair," and imply that there's usually only one Annie in most iterations of whatever time loop is occurring
- Zimmy was able to undo (in at least a physical sense) whatever Loup did to cause two Annies to exist
- The recombined Annie appears to have much stronger fire powers – at least double their previous strength, if not more
Ooh, lots to think about in this post. Because the Norns denied that it's a temporal shift (even though that's what Kat thinks happened), I think it's pretty convincing to think that it's maybe personality split (splitting Annie into Court and Forest; the Annie that clings to the memory of her mother and the Annie who just wants to move forward). That would explain why Saslamel and Brinnie see them as shifted, but that neither of them belong—if they're fragmented, then it makes more sense that each half shouldn't be presented as a whole Annie. No clue why Zimmy is able to undo what Loup did, however. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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Post by warrl on Apr 9, 2021 21:38:12 GMT
No clue why Zimmy is able to undo what Loup did, however. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And now I'm thinking about the consequences of an orphaned god... (Since I'm already in the process of writing an orphaned paranormal...) |
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 10, 2021 10:07:38 GMT
Ooh, lots to think about in this post. Because the Norns denied that it's a temporal shift (even though that's what Kat thinks happened), I think it's pretty convincing to think that it's maybe personality split (splitting Annie into Court and Forest; the Annie that clings to the memory of her mother and the Annie who just wants to move forward). That would explain why Saslamel and Brinnie see them as shifted, but that neither of them belong—if they're fragmented, then it makes more sense that each half shouldn't be presented as a whole Annie. No clue why Zimmy is able to undo what Loup did, however. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Welcome to the forum, and cool username! |
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Post by ysenfrown on Apr 10, 2021 22:45:24 GMT
Welcome to the forum, and cool username! Thank you! I've been a lurker for a long time so it doesn't feel like I'm particularly new, but I'm a little rusty with forums, so fingers crossed that I've not made a social faux pas yet. |
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