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Post by arf on Jan 8, 2021 8:05:28 GMT
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Post by arf on Jan 8, 2021 8:06:37 GMT
Interesting that Zimmy appears to be manifesting in each of the Forest.
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Post by wies on Jan 8, 2021 8:16:32 GMT
I love the addendum of "usually" here.
Anyway, seems Zimmy has something on her mind.
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Post by machiavelli33 on Jan 8, 2021 8:35:29 GMT
Plot Twist: they're ALL Zimmy!
The forestfolk are Zimmy - the Annies are Zimmy - you're Zimmy....I'M ZIMMY - EY AWRIGHT CARVER YOU LEAVE GAMMA ALONE I JUS' WANNA STOMP SPIDERS-
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Post by saardvark on Jan 8, 2021 12:03:50 GMT
Interesting that Zimmy appears to be manifesting in each of the Forest. and as she does, the elf "Zimmyfies" slightly, their teeth getting pointy for a while... panels 2 & 3 www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2410panels 6 & 7 today www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2413Its like Zimmy has gone vaporous/spectral, and and can enter/possess things briefly, but doesnt have the ability/strength to stay anywhere long... |
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Post by ohthatone on Jan 8, 2021 12:41:45 GMT
Interesting that Zimmy appears to be manifesting in each of the Forest. and as she does, the elf "Zimmyfies" slightly, their teeth getting pointy for a while... panels 2 & 3 www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2410panels 6 & 7 today www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2413Its like Zimmy has gone vaporous/spectral, and and can enter/possess things briefly, but doesnt have the ability/strength to stay anywhere long... Perhaps zimmy has learned some control over zimmingham. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jan 8, 2021 13:14:20 GMT
So, she's harder to catch than Waldo, but probably easier than Lah'Saa or Alpharius.
Doesn't matter if it's not the point.
But is Gamma even there this time, or they will have to wander aimlessly until the next rain?
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2021 14:47:35 GMT
Okay, now I'm thinking that the collision of elf kid and Zeta was not only physical but mental as well, and the result is that Zeta's mind is stuck in the elves who were working together to (successfully) catch her. It's probably for the best. Also, ancient meme:
"You got your Zeta in my elf kids!"
"No, you got your elf kids in my Zeta!"
"Whut? Inauspicious." (x2)
ANNOUNCER: Two great characters that grate on each other!
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Post by itrogash on Jan 8, 2021 15:21:09 GMT
Is this kid calling C!Annie "Court" or am I not getting it correctly? Did that happen before?
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Post by ohthatone on Jan 8, 2021 15:28:36 GMT
Is this kid calling C!Annie "Court" or am I not getting it correctly? Did that happen before? I think these elf kids will refer to anyone from the court as Court (minus zimmy), as though any one will represent the whole court and/or in absence of caring to learn names. Curious if they mean it in a derogatory sense. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2021 16:06:06 GMT
Is this kid calling C!Annie "Court" or am I not getting it correctly? Did that happen before? I think these elf kids will refer to anyone from the court as Court (minus zimmy), as though any one will represent the whole court and/or in absence of caring to learn names. Curious if they mean it in a derogatory sense. Meh. It's an "other-ing" and thus default "bad" but not particularly bad in any sense. It's like a "Hey, you, you who are not of my community" which is accurate but not exactly friendly. I'd figure they have other more derogative words for Court folk and/or the non-green that they aren't using. You'd think they'd have heard of Antimony as medium, though. The Antimonies might be more recognizable if they lit their hair on fire. |
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Post by fia on Jan 8, 2021 16:16:36 GMT
Is this kid calling C!Annie "Court" or am I not getting it correctly? Did that happen before? I think these elf kids will refer to anyone from the court as Court (minus zimmy), as though any one will represent the whole court and/or in absence of caring to learn names. Curious if they mean it in a derogatory sense. Yeah I think it's like someone from a rural town calling an urban kid "City". It can be derogatory I guess but it's not necessarily derogatory. |
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Post by basser on Jan 8, 2021 21:45:19 GMT
Y'all remember that when Zimmy's powers go off under normal circumstances (ie not being manipulated by weird zealot robots) nobody actually goes anywhere yeah? Assuming this isn't a big ole zimception where we've really been in the Zimmyverse the entire time, then all these goobers are just standing around next to each other staring off into space. So Zimmy could just be talking normally on account of she's literally right there and instead of a disembodied voice it appears as her projecting through the elves for whatever reason.
Presumably this is also why Renard can't transform, since iirc his transformation is something along the lines of manipulating the way people perceive him and of course he can't do that if Zimmy is the one in charge of perceived reality right now.
Also I would think that if these are the actual Annies and not some kinda strange fakeout, and if Gamma is indeed MIA, then this trip to Zimmingham should be a tad different on account of they'll need to figure out how to properly use Annie as an emergency backup Gamma.
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Demonsul
New Member
Seven years a new member
Posts: 44 
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Post by Demonsul on Jan 8, 2021 23:01:31 GMT
Everyone can see what's happening behind the panels, right? Not just me?
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Post by Runningflame on Jan 9, 2021 0:25:55 GMT
Everyone can see what's happening behind the panels, right? Not just me? Oh wow. I totally missed that. Good catch! But what is it? Kinda looks like some fingers, maybe--Zimmy's? Loup's? Someone else's? |
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Post by speedwell on Jan 9, 2021 1:43:37 GMT
Zimmy is bodysurfing and Renard is (temporarily?) unable to. Is Zimmy capable of stealing Coyote's gift?
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Post by saardvark on Jan 9, 2021 2:17:05 GMT
Everyone can see what's happening behind the panels, right? Not just me? Oh wow. I totally missed that. Good catch! But what is it? Kinda looks like some fingers, maybe--Zimmy's? Loup's? Someone else's? yes, well spotted! It didn't occur when earlier Kellin was briefly Zimmyfied... www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2410To me .. not so much fingers ... they are rather sharp edged and lined ... maybe pieces of a background city maybe? Grey windows(?) (note X between panels 2&4) walkways(?) (converging paths[?] to right of panels 4&7) rounded something (curb corner? utility cover? [both slightly occluded] - kind of at a loss here... between panels 5&6) Maybe background reality leaking in somewhat? |
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Post by saardvark on Jan 9, 2021 2:42:25 GMT
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Post by bedinsis on Jan 9, 2021 9:23:36 GMT
Zimmy is bodysurfing and Renard is (temporarily?) unable to. Is Zimmy capable of stealing Coyote's gift? Ehhh... The chapter Spring-heeled part 2 suggest the simpler explanation that she occasionally forgets who of the people present in the illusion she actually is. It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out she can inflict that confusion on other people. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 9, 2021 11:11:46 GMT
Presumably this is also why Renard can't transform, since iirc his transformation is something along the lines of manipulating the way people perceive him and of course he can't do that if Zimmy is the one in charge of perceived reality right now. I don't think so, if it were just a kind of illusion, he could not have Annie ride on his back, or use his teeth to rip off the ward off Annie's arm.
Zimmy is bodysurfing and Renard is (temporarily?) unable to. Is Zimmy capable of stealing Coyote's gift? If they are in Birminghell, those are not their real bodies... and if they were, they should drop dead as soon as the possessor leaves them. |
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Post by wies on Jan 9, 2021 12:23:19 GMT
Everyone can see what's happening behind the panels, right? Not just me? Huh, that is creepy. Though I haven't the foggiest idea what to make of that. Hmm, the openings in those dark shades are eyes perhaps? |
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Post by basser on Jan 9, 2021 17:30:34 GMT
Presumably this is also why Renard can't transform, since iirc his transformation is something along the lines of manipulating the way people perceive him and of course he can't do that if Zimmy is the one in charge of perceived reality right now. I don't think so, if it were just a kind of illusion, he could not have Annie ride on his back, or use his teeth to rip off the ward off Annie's arm. Not an illusion - changing people's perception. Which includes touch, sound, amount of physical space occupied, all that jazz. Same as what Zimmy is doing right now or what Annie does with magic fire. There's a similar concept in I think an old Terry Pratchett book? Where a character turns someone into a frog, but then they explain they really just made everyone perceive that the person is a frog in every meaningful way, and there's a question of whether that's any different than literally turning them into a frog. If you can't detect the illusion by any physical means then does it still count as an illusion or is it a real thing now. Since we're working with ether and all that then Renard could still "be" the size of a regular stuffed animal. When Annie's on his back he could just be making her float with his magic, wrapping a visual/tactile illusion of a wolf around it for convenience. I wouldn't think he's doing it intentionally either, like making the choice to deceive anyone. I think the ether just has a lot to do with perception so if you're going to use it to do weird stuff it's somehow easier if you also make it look reasonable. Or maybe human minds instinctively try to fill in the gaps and create those illusions for themselves, similar to how Coyote says he's not real, he's just a consequence of dying humans perceiving hungry coyotes as gods. |
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Post by speedwell on Jan 10, 2021 2:22:22 GMT
I don't think so, if it were just a kind of illusion, he could not have Annie ride on his back, or use his teeth to rip off the ward off Annie's arm. Not an illusion - changing people's perception. Which includes touch, sound, amount of physical space occupied, all that jazz. Same as what Zimmy is doing right now or what Annie does with magic fire. There's a similar concept in I think an old Terry Pratchett book? Where a character turns someone into a frog, but then they explain they really just made everyone perceive that the person is a frog in every meaningful way, and there's a question of whether that's any different than literally turning them into a frog. If you can't detect the illusion by any physical means then does it still count as an illusion or is it a real thing now. Since we're working with ether and all that then Renard could still "be" the size of a regular stuffed animal. When Annie's on his back he could just be making her float with his magic, wrapping a visual/tactile illusion of a wolf around it for convenience. I wouldn't think he's doing it intentionally either, like making the choice to deceive anyone. I think the ether just has a lot to do with perception so if you're going to use it to do weird stuff it's somehow easier if you also make it look reasonable. Or maybe human minds instinctively try to fill in the gaps and create those illusions for themselves, similar to how Coyote says he's not real, he's just a consequence of dying humans perceiving hungry coyotes as gods. If nothing is as it seems, and everything is a lie, then there's no particular point dealing with anything as if it's the truth. There is no consensus and therefore no reality. "And she woke up, and it had all been a dream" is not the level of writing I expect from Tom  |
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Post by wies on Jan 10, 2021 7:00:07 GMT
Not an illusion - changing people's perception. Which includes touch, sound, amount of physical space occupied, all that jazz. Same as what Zimmy is doing right now or what Annie does with magic fire. There's a similar concept in I think an old Terry Pratchett book? Where a character turns someone into a frog, but then they explain they really just made everyone perceive that the person is a frog in every meaningful way, and there's a question of whether that's any different than literally turning them into a frog. If you can't detect the illusion by any physical means then does it still count as an illusion or is it a real thing now. Since we're working with ether and all that then Renard could still "be" the size of a regular stuffed animal. When Annie's on his back he could just be making her float with his magic, wrapping a visual/tactile illusion of a wolf around it for convenience. I wouldn't think he's doing it intentionally either, like making the choice to deceive anyone. I think the ether just has a lot to do with perception so if you're going to use it to do weird stuff it's somehow easier if you also make it look reasonable. Or maybe human minds instinctively try to fill in the gaps and create those illusions for themselves, similar to how Coyote says he's not real, he's just a consequence of dying humans perceiving hungry coyotes as gods. If nothing is as it seems, and everything is a lie, then there's no particular point dealing with anything as if it's the truth. There is no consensus and therefore no reality. "And she woke up, and it had all been a dream" is not the level of writing I expect from Tom I think "all been a dream" is too simplistic. Like, Coyote is not what he seems. He seems like an actual self-sustaining coyote, but in truth he is a living idea, a collection of people's etherical energy that allows him to keep moving. Coyote is a lie. But that does not render him to be 'just a dream'. It is a bit like how we are all in the end just a collection of atoms and quarks pretending to be something else. |
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Post by speedwell on Jan 10, 2021 11:39:37 GMT
If nothing is as it seems, and everything is a lie, then there's no particular point dealing with anything as if it's the truth. There is no consensus and therefore no reality. "And she woke up, and it had all been a dream" is not the level of writing I expect from Tom I think "all been a dream" is too simplistic. Like, Coyote is not what he seems. He seems like an actual self-sustaining coyote, but in truth he is a living idea, a collection of people's etherical energy that allows him to keep moving. Coyote is a lie. But that does not render him to be 'just a dream'. It is a bit like how we are all in the end just a collection of atoms and quarks pretending to be something else. Eh, not really. The "we are all mostly empty space" thing is a matter of context. You might as well say we're a complicated energy field, or nothing but a dependent member of an organism that is self-sustaining only at the level of a collective. In the magickal and alchemical traditions upon which Tom draws heavily, what causes things to happen, and the basis of what we call etherical energy, is the creative or destructive force of will directed by intention upon what is perceived. But this is not milquetoast, "whatever, man, nothing is really anything", postmodernist handwaving. All of these things... the source of the intention and will, the active intention and will themselves, the imagination that gives rise to the creative urge, the perception, the interaction between the perceiver and the perceived, the change that happens when the energy is applied, and the passive recipient of the changes... these are all as real as each other. It doesn't make much difference whether the magician is a little child using imagination and will to compassionately turn a ghost's pain and shame into a fire she can manipulate, or a gifted engineer sculpting a loving, functioning homage to the human mind and heart with skill and an enhanced understanding of science, or a desperate, intelligent man, cruel to and unforgiving of himself, subconsciously causing his worst nightmares to turn against him and cruelly rend him. Lines blur. Thought forms, such as the idea of divinity itself in the shape of an animal, clearly can create thought forms of their own. It's all as natural as an inert element forming beauty, as if by intention, simply by crystallising. |
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Post by Isildur on Jan 11, 2021 6:51:58 GMT
I think "all been a dream" is too simplistic. Like, Coyote is not what he seems. He seems like an actual self-sustaining coyote, but in truth he is a living idea, a collection of people's etherical energy that allows him to keep moving. Coyote is a lie. But that does not render him to be 'just a dream'. It is a bit like how we are all in the end just a collection of atoms and quarks pretending to be something else. Eh, not really. The "we are all mostly empty space" thing is a matter of context. You might as well say we're a complicated energy field, or nothing but a dependent member of an organism that is self-sustaining only at the level of a collective. In the magickal and alchemical traditions upon which Tom draws heavily, what causes things to happen, and the basis of what we call etherical energy, is the creative or destructive force of will directed by intention upon what is perceived. But this is not milquetoast, "whatever, man, nothing is really anything", postmodernist handwaving. All of these things... the source of the intention and will, the active intention and will themselves, the imagination that gives rise to the creative urge, the perception, the interaction between the perceiver and the perceived, the change that happens when the energy is applied, and the passive recipient of the changes... these are all as real as each other. It doesn't make much difference whether the magician is a little child using imagination and will to compassionately turn a ghost's pain and shame into a fire she can manipulate, or a gifted engineer sculpting a loving, functioning homage to the human mind and heart with skill and an enhanced understanding of science, or a desperate, intelligent man, cruel to and unforgiving of himself, subconsciously causing his worst nightmares to turn against him and cruelly rend him. Lines blur. Thought forms, such as the idea of divinity itself in the shape of an animal, clearly can create thought forms of their own. It's all as natural as an inert element forming beauty, as if by intention, simply by crystallising. [I removed a misplaced "[/quote]" from here. —Isildur]Speedwell, you accidentally misplaced a [/quote] (or inserted your text in the wrong spot in Preview edit mode)*, so your text got added to Wies's text quote block. (I've corrected it in my own quote of you.) Most people reading the thread probably got what happened, but it could confuse a reader, so you may wish to edit your post in BBCode mode to move the tag to the right spot as I did in this post. ______________________ *Or we could chalk it up to Zimmy's doing... After all, a statement confusingly appearing in the wrong person's speech box is a somewhat appropriate phenomenon for the thread.  |
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Post by wies on Jan 11, 2021 8:19:19 GMT
I think "all been a dream" is too simplistic. Like, Coyote is not what he seems. He seems like an actual self-sustaining coyote, but in truth he is a living idea, a collection of people's etherical energy that allows him to keep moving. Coyote is a lie. But that does not render him to be 'just a dream'. It is a bit like how we are all in the end just a collection of atoms and quarks pretending to be something else. Eh, not really. The "we are all mostly empty space" thing is a matter of context. You might as well say we're a complicated energy field, or nothing but a dependent member of an organism that is self-sustaining only at the level of a collective. In the magickal and alchemical traditions upon which Tom draws heavily, what causes things to happen, and the basis of what we call etherical energy, is the creative or destructive force of will directed by intention upon what is perceived. But this is not milquetoast, "whatever, man, nothing is really anything", postmodernist handwaving. All of these things... the source of the intention and will, the active intention and will themselves, the imagination that gives rise to the creative urge, the perception, the interaction between the perceiver and the perceived, the change that happens when the energy is applied, and the passive recipient of the changes... these are all as real as each other. It doesn't make much difference whether the magician is a little child using imagination and will to compassionately turn a ghost's pain and shame into a fire she can manipulate, or a gifted engineer sculpting a loving, functioning homage to the human mind and heart with skill and an enhanced understanding of science, or a desperate, intelligent man, cruel to and unforgiving of himself, subconsciously causing his worst nightmares to turn against him and cruelly rend him. Lines blur. Thought forms, such as the idea of divinity itself in the shape of an animal, clearly can create thought forms of their own. It's all as natural as an inert element forming beauty, as if by intention, simply by crystallising. Thank you for expounding! We agree here, only you explained it much more eloquent. |
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Post by warrl on Jan 11, 2021 20:38:28 GMT
It is a bit like how we are all in the end just a collection of atoms and quarks pretending to be something else. An atom is just a bunch of quarks and electrons pretending to be something else. Whether the quarks have any choice about this... there, we're getting into a weird corner of mysticism. Aside: in White Wolf's "World of Darkness" RPG universe, one group of mages are the Dreamspeakers. Which are, essentially, tribal shamans and derivatives of their traditions. I once came across an article which purported to describe *the* Dreamspeaker paradigm - the way that people of that group believe magic works. Note, this was part of a long article describing many sorts of mages, and Dreamspeakers were the only ones claimed to have only one paradigm. So I immediately set out two possible Dreamspeaker paradigms rooted in quantum physics... in one of them, the smallest and weakest of the spirits behind and within everything in the universe were the ones who made decisions at the subatomic level, such as which uranium atom in the mass would spontaneously fission next... |
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Post by speedwell on Jan 13, 2021 8:27:31 GMT
It is a bit like how we are all in the end just a collection of atoms and quarks pretending to be something else. An atom is just a bunch of quarks and electrons pretending to be something else. Whether the quarks have any choice about this... there, we're getting into a weird corner of mysticism. Aside: in White Wolf's "World of Darkness" RPG universe, one group of mages are the Dreamspeakers. Which are, essentially, tribal shamans and derivatives of their traditions. I once came across an article which purported to describe *the* Dreamspeaker paradigm - the way that people of that group believe magic works. Note, this was part of a long article describing many sorts of mages, and Dreamspeakers were the only ones claimed to have only one paradigm. So I immediately set out two possible Dreamspeaker paradigms rooted in quantum physics... in one of them, the smallest and weakest of the spirits behind and within everything in the universe were the ones who made decisions at the subatomic level, such as which uranium atom in the mass would spontaneously fission next... Heh, I played White Wolf games when they first came out. I know about the "consensus reality" aspect of the magic system in those games. What I was describing was the sort of reality which persists even when you don't agree what it is. In that context, magick has a demonstrable effect on known things. In the "quantum woo" paradigm, "human scale" works exactly as does "quantum scale", but the whole point of atomic-and-smaller theory is that it operates differently from operations at larger scales, down near where the operations look more like math problems than balls and rods. Quantum-scale operations are dangerously counterintuitive, from whence derives a lot of their fun. But as my seventh-grade chemistry teacher explained, it is possible for all of the molecules in the classroom to spontaneously gather in the upper corner of the room above the door... it's just not how it works in practice.Remember when we talked about scientific explanations for how Smitty's powers might work to get him to the other side of a wall? Quantum-level yoctomanagement is more likely to result in runaway atomic energy events than it is to power observable, human-scale, intentional change. |
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