[2410] "She don't deserve Gamma!"

[imaginaryfriend]

Why Blondie, what sharp teeth you have.

[edit]By which I mean I think Kellin is actually Zeta, who in an abnormally useful application of her forgetfulness/loss of self is now temporarily safe from elf kid attacks.[/edit]

[madjack]

This just might be the perfect chapter to start 2021 off with: All expectations should be completely discarded.

[Dvandaemon]

Ooh, what if, inverse to her assuming the identity of ether-sensitives like Annie, she impresses herself into etheric people? Like, how Rey was talking about what she could do to him.


Last time, when she became Annie, she expressed an insecurity that she didn't deserve Gamma as well.

[imaginaryfriend]

Jan 1, 2021 8:05:13 GMT madjack said:

This just might be the perfect chapter to start 2021 off with: All expectations should be completely discarded.

Consult a physician if your election lasts more than three months.

Jan 1, 2021 8:05:51 GMT Dvandaemon said:

Ooh, what if, inverse to her assuming the identity of ether-sensitives like Annie, she impresses herself into etheric people? Like, how Rey was talking about what she could do to him. Last time, when she became Annie, she expressed an insecurity that she didn't deserve Gamma as well.

Let's see if the signature teeth change in the next few comics. Right now I'm inclined to think that Kellin is Zeta who just briefly blew her cover due to a visceral reaction to an Antimony calling her "troubled."

[caber]

Jan 1, 2021 8:06:15 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Jan 1, 2021 8:05:13 GMT madjack said:

This just might be the perfect chapter to start 2021 off with: All expectations should be completely discarded.

Consult a physician if your election lasts more than three months.

Ooo look at Mr.money bags over here, able to afford a physician!

[madjack]

Jan 1, 2021 8:06:15 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Jan 1, 2021 8:05:51 GMT Dvandaemon said:

Ooh, what if, inverse to her assuming the identity of ether-sensitives like Annie, she impresses herself into etheric people? Like, how Rey was talking about what she could do to him. Last time, when she became Annie, she expressed an insecurity that she didn't deserve Gamma as well.

Let's see if the signature teeth change in the next few comics. Right now I'm inclined to think that Kellin is Zeta who just briefly blew her cover due to a visceral reaction to an Antimony calling her "troubled."

I wonder perhaps if Zimmy has dissolved into all of them to some degree and they'll each start acting out of character at various points.

[wies]

Jan 1, 2021 8:05:51 GMT Dvandaemon said:

Last time, when she became Annie, she expressed an insecurity that she didn't deserve Gamma as well.

Was that not more like jealousy aimed at Annie?

[TBeholder]

Jan 1, 2021 8:05:13 GMT madjack said:

This just might be the perfect chapter to start 2021 off with: All expectations should be completely discarded.

That's nothing unusual. The questions are only "how much" and "how obvious". ;]

The plot twist at this point would be that Kellin isn't a memory of an elf kid worn by Zimmy like "Annie" was, but is herself, jealous and helped to start this mess.
But that's very unlikely.

[Dvandaemon]

Jan 1, 2021 9:45:45 GMT wies said:

Jan 1, 2021 8:05:51 GMT Dvandaemon said:

Last time, when she became Annie, she expressed an insecurity that she didn't deserve Gamma as well.

Was that not more like jealousy aimed at Annie?

I'm not sure. It's the same difference if it was. Jealousy is just another insecurity.

[fia]

Well, they are all in Zimmy's head. In some sense, they are all Zimmy while they're in there.

What I'm wondering now: what Zimmy was up to before she ticked off these elf kids. They said they saw her "sneaking around". What was she looking for? Was she maybe just loitering like usual and they didn't like it, or something else?

She sure does seem insecure. I think it really hurts her when other kids call her names.

[wies]

Jan 1, 2021 16:07:21 GMT Dvandaemon said:

Jan 1, 2021 9:45:45 GMT wies said:

Was that not more like jealousy aimed at Annie?

I'm not sure. It's the same difference if it was. Jealousy is just another insecurity.

Good point, I agree.

[echo]

Tom calling out people calling out Zimmy and Gamma's relationship as abusive?

The elves are the readers? Zimmy's subconcious? I dunno place yer bets. 

[mturtle7]

Jan 1, 2021 18:04:34 GMT fia said:

What I'm wondering now: what Zimmy was up to before she ticked off these elf kids. They said they saw her "sneaking around". What was she looking for? Was she maybe just loitering like usual and they didn't like it, or something else?

She sure does seem insecure. I think it really hurts her when other kids call her names.

My guess is that she was looking for Gamma and/or hiding from Omega.

[Gemminie]

Kellin now has a name. And she's standing up on her own now, so whatever happened to her prior to the Annies seeing the treens can't have been too bad.

I think the theory that she's Zimmy is interesting. It could be true. We'll see. But for now, face value has it that Kellin met Gamma and fell for her, and can't believe that she has any affection for a whatever-they-see-Zimmy-as. This is also a return to the question of where Gamma is – could she and Zimmy have had an argument? Could she have left Zimmy, at least temporarily? Could Zimmy have driven her off with her own feelings that she doesn't deserve Gamma? There's clearly a backstory here that we don't know.

And considering that not even 05 and Pink Hoodie seem to know the score, and since they're in a place of relative shelter for now, we might see some of that backstory soon. Annie might ask Kellin where Gamma is, and Kellin might explain some relevant events.

[youwiththeface]

Jan 1, 2021 20:32:20 GMT Gemminie said:

But for now, face value has it that Kellin met Gamma and fell for her, and can't believe that she has any affection for a whatever-they-see-Zimmy-as.

Why? There's nothing that's been shown that supports that theory; conversely, we've seen Zimmy express similar sentiments while looking like other people while in Zimmingham before.

[echo]

You know zimmyham might be a decent place to visit but I think if given the option I'd emigrate

[imaginaryfriend]

Jan 1, 2021 20:44:56 GMT echo said:

You know zimmyham might be a decent place to visit but I think if given the option I'd emigrate

In Zeta's Zimmingham you don't go over border, border goes over you.

[pyradonis]

Jan 1, 2021 16:07:21 GMT Dvandaemon said:

Jan 1, 2021 9:45:45 GMT wies said:

Was that not more like jealousy aimed at Annie?

I'm not sure. It's the same difference if it was. Jealousy is just another insecurity.

Yes, but.

Back then Zimmy clearly spoke as herself when she got agitated, while Blondie here still spoke about Zimmy as someone else.

I think I will put my quatloos on them being all who they seem, only being influenced by Zimmy's emotions.

[Gemminie]

Jan 1, 2021 20:43:37 GMT youwiththeface said:

Jan 1, 2021 20:32:20 GMT Gemminie said:

But for now, face value has it that Kellin met Gamma and fell for her, and can't believe that she has any affection for a whatever-they-see-Zimmy-as.

Why? There's nothing that's been shown that supports that theory; conversely, we've seen Zimmy express similar sentiments while looking like other people while in Zimmingham before.

The page we're talking about supports that theory. True, Zimmy earlier expressed similar sentiments while looking like Annie. Does that mean that Kellin is Zimmy just because she's expressing similar sentiments? No, not necessarily, although it could be. But I'm just talking about this, here, in isolation. Face value.

[foxurus]

Jan 1, 2021 9:45:45 GMT wies said:

Jan 1, 2021 8:05:51 GMT Dvandaemon said:

Last time, when she became Annie, she expressed an insecurity that she didn't deserve Gamma as well.

Was that not more like jealousy aimed at Annie?

Here is the (milder) insecurity: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=729

Why are some people calling her Zeta on the forums now?

[DonDueed]

Jan 2, 2021 3:29:23 GMT foxurus said:

Jan 1, 2021 9:45:45 GMT wies said:

Was that not more like jealousy aimed at Annie?

Here is the (milder) insecurity: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=729

Why are some people calling her Zeta on the forums now?

Zeta is her actual name, or at least what the Court calls her.  Zimmy is a nickname.

[jocobo]

Jan 2, 2021 3:29:23 GMT foxurus said:

Why are some people calling her Zeta on the forums now?

Likely because it seems Omega is finally coming into play as a main focus of the plot. Zimmy seemingly has a connection to it and so referring to her as Zeta highlights the connection.

[jocobo]

Speaking of Omega and Zeta: has anyone looked at the mathematical and scientific uses of the terms to try and guess what the court is up to?

It's honestly quite fun to theorize about.

Last time I went down this rabbit hole I became convinced Zimmy/Zeta was a reference to Zeta potential, AKA the eletrokinietic potential of something to phase into another during colloidal dispersion. Depending on the it can lead to coagulation, instability or very stable mixtures. ( I hope I explained that right, the concept is a bit high math for my chosen fields of study).

Which isn't a one to one comparison to the way Zimmy interacts with the Ether and blends it with the real world but is close enough through the phase of New Years Alcohol that I am willing to entertain the notion.

Also, Happy New Years everyone.

[zbeeblebrox]

Ah, this is the one who was having trouble standing right? And now suddenly she's got an identity problem. Or maybe she's become a mouthpiece for Zimmy's inner thoughts...

Hey, maybe this is a solution for Zimmy's woes just waiting to be discovered: Elf Kid Therapy! Get run down by Elf kids, subsume them into your mind hellscape, feed them your insecurities through an aetheric reaction we don't fully understand...and talk out your troubles! Yeah, I like this. It's a good idea.

[mturtle7]

Jan 1, 2021 20:32:20 GMT Gemminie said:

Kellin now has a name. And she's standing up on her own now, so whatever happened to her prior to the Annies seeing the treens can't have been too bad.

I think the theory that she's Zimmy is interesting. It could be true. We'll see. But for now, face value has it that Kellin met Gamma and fell for her, and can't believe that she has any affection for a whatever-they-see-Zimmy-as. This is also a return to the question of where Gamma is – could she and Zimmy have had an argument? Could she have left Zimmy, at least temporarily? Could Zimmy have driven her off with her own feelings that she doesn't deserve Gamma? There's clearly a backstory here that we don't know.

And considering that not even 05 and Pink Hoodie seem to know the score, and since they're in a place of relative shelter for now, we might see some of that backstory soon. Annie might ask Kellin where Gamma is, and Kellin might explain some relevant events.

Based on the last panel of today's page, I think it's a pretty good bet that that wasn't something Kellin would naturally say.

That being said, I can't believe it never occurred to me that Gamma might have just, like...LEFT Zimmy, voluntarily. I was assuming that she's been kidnapped by the Court or something, but there's not REALLY any reason to suspect that, is there? Occam's Razor, after all. We already know that Zimmy and Gamma's relationship has a history of being pretty damn crazy and toxic in so many ways. I just recently got my printed copy of GC Volume 7, and reading that all again got me thinking a lot about the way GC depicts a lot of different kinds of weird and toxic relationships - Tony and Annie, Coyote and Ysengrin, Red and Ayilu, Surma and Renard, and certainly Zimmy - so that it's clear that despite how horribly everything is going wrong, there are still real feelings of love here, and neither person is completely "evil" or unchanging.

In Zimmy and Gamma's case, while there are plenty of times when we've seen diabetes-worhty levels of sweetness from them, a lot of their relationship seems to boil down to, "Gamma shoulders literally all of Zimmy's burdens 24/7, while Zimmy desperately tries to keep Gamma totally isolated from the rest of the world out of sheer jealousy and avarice". They actually seem to have been working on that, in their last few appearances - in The Torn Sea, for instance, Gamma seems to have been slowly approaching a point where she might actually have a life outside of solving Zimmy's problems! ...Very slowly. But it's entirely possible that things finally broke down there, as either Zimmy or Gamma could have reached the point where they understood how awful their whole situation was, but weren't willing to keep slowly working on it like they seem to have been. Which could have lead to a big argument, like you say Gemminie , and Zimmy wandering off, completely lost and in pain...until we get to this scene. Great. Just great.

[blahzor]

Jan 2, 2021 0:42:48 GMT pyradonis said:

Jan 1, 2021 16:07:21 GMT Dvandaemon said:

I'm not sure. It's the same difference if it was. Jealousy is just another insecurity.

Yes, but.

Back then Zimmy clearly spoke as herself when she got agitated, while Blondie here still spoke about Zimmy as someone else.

I think I will put my quatloos on them being all who they seem, only being influenced by Zimmy's emotions.

So the real twist is they are all Zimmy and she just tripped over a banana peel

[Per]

Jan 2, 2021 4:05:36 GMT jocobo said:

Speaking of Omega and Zeta: has anyone looked at the mathematical and scientific uses of the terms to try and guess what the court is up to?

I have believed for a long time it was established that they were derived from different types of brain waves. Gamma waves are regular waves that are typically disrupted in cases of schizophrenia or other abnormal states. Zeta waves are a type of delta wave associated with physical brain injury. This may have been sourced from some old doodle Tom posted, or I might be completely mistaken and it was just someone's random theory.

[Runningflame]

Compare today's panel 3 with panel 5 here. Seems pretty clear to me. (Unless it's another fake-out, of course.)

An optimistic prediction: Annie, remembering the sort of shenanigans that happen in Zimmingham, will realize what's going on and say, "Zimmy, is that you?"

[youwiththeface]

Jan 2, 2021 0:55:43 GMT Gemminie said:

Jan 1, 2021 20:43:37 GMT youwiththeface said:

Why? There's nothing that's been shown that supports that theory; conversely, we've seen Zimmy express similar sentiments while looking like other people while in Zimmingham before.

The page we're talking about supports that theory. True, Zimmy earlier expressed similar sentiments while looking like Annie. Does that mean that Kellin is Zimmy just because she's expressing similar sentiments? No, not necessarily, although it could be. But I'm just talking about this, here, in isolation. Face value.

How? There's no evidence on this page or any previous pages that Kellin knows Gamma exists, let alone met her, let alone developed feelings for her and then got jealous of Zimmy. That's quite a leap with no evidence.

[pyradonis]

Jan 2, 2021 15:34:02 GMT Runningflame said:

Compare today's panel 3 with panel 5 here. Seems pretty clear to me. (Unless it's another fake-out, of course.)

An optimistic prediction: Annie, remembering the sort of shenanigans that happen in Zimmingham, will realize what's going on and say, "Zimmy, is that you?"

Actually I never saw any indication in Spring Heeled pt. 2 that Annie saw what Zimmy saw. We saw the Birminghell part of the chapter completely from Zimmy's POV, and the real Annie acted like the real Annie would, neither believing she was Zimmy, nor wondering why there was another Annie running around, or getting angry Gamma would call "Annie" by "her" name. All Annie knows with certainty is that not all Nobodies are faceless and mute.

Jan 2, 2021 8:21:23 GMT mturtle7 said:

Jan 1, 2021 20:32:20 GMT Gemminie said:

Kellin now has a name. And she's standing up on her own now, so whatever happened to her prior to the Annies seeing the treens can't have been too bad.

I think the theory that she's Zimmy is interesting. It could be true. We'll see. But for now, face value has it that Kellin met Gamma and fell for her, and can't believe that she has any affection for a whatever-they-see-Zimmy-as. This is also a return to the question of where Gamma is – could she and Zimmy have had an argument? Could she have left Zimmy, at least temporarily? Could Zimmy have driven her off with her own feelings that she doesn't deserve Gamma? There's clearly a backstory here that we don't know.

And considering that not even 05 and Pink Hoodie seem to know the score, and since they're in a place of relative shelter for now, we might see some of that backstory soon. Annie might ask Kellin where Gamma is, and Kellin might explain some relevant events.

Based on the last panel of today's page, I think it's a pretty good bet that that wasn't something Kellin would naturally say.

That being said, I can't believe it never occurred to me that Gamma might have just, like...LEFT Zimmy, voluntarily. I was assuming that she's been kidnapped by the Court or something, but there's not REALLY any reason to suspect that, is there? Occam's Razor, after all. We already know that Zimmy and Gamma's relationship has a history of being pretty damn crazy and toxic in so many ways. I just recently got my printed copy of GC Volume 7, and reading that all again got me thinking a lot about the way GC depicts a lot of different kinds of weird and toxic relationships - Tony and Annie, Coyote and Ysengrin, Red and Ayilu, Surma and Renard, and certainly Zimmy - so that it's clear that despite how horribly everything is going wrong, there are still real feelings of love here, and neither person is completely "evil" or unchanging.

In Zimmy and Gamma's case, while there are plenty of times when we've seen diabetes-worhty levels of sweetness from them, a lot of their relationship seems to boil down to, "Gamma shoulders literally all of Zimmy's burdens 24/7, while Zimmy desperately tries to keep Gamma totally isolated from the rest of the world out of sheer jealousy and avarice". They actually seem to have been working on that, in their last few appearances - in The Torn Sea, for instance, Gamma seems to have been slowly approaching a point where she might actually have a life outside of solving Zimmy's problems! ...Very slowly. But it's entirely possible that things finally broke down there, as either Zimmy or Gamma could have reached the point where they understood how awful their whole situation was, but weren't willing to keep slowly working on it like they seem to have been. Which could have lead to a big argument, like you say Gemminie , and Zimmy wandering off, completely lost and in pain...until we get to this scene. Great. Just great.

All totally true, but... I do not think that is the case for pure meta reasons. Any storyteller worth their salt (which Tom certainly is) would gave given at least a tiny foreshadowing hint about that possibility, but there was nothing the last time we saw both Z&G together.