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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 23, 2020 8:02:31 GMT
Oh look, it's Loup again. |
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Post by madjack on Nov 23, 2020 8:07:34 GMT
So is this going to be 'just a vision' or is Loup about to try to use Zimmy as another cat's (dog's?) paw?
In either case, this will not be good.
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Post by jda on Nov 23, 2020 8:07:45 GMT
And the rock in the place where the upper tooth was removed. Nice touch.
And that's how Loup will be aware of the CoyoteTooth, or maybe just the memory of it will be his just on time to watch it split him in half
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Post by wies on Nov 23, 2020 8:10:35 GMT
Well, this threw me for a loop.
So, this seems to continue the tradition of exploring relationships. We got Paz and Kat, Anthony and Annie, and now I think we will get Coyote and Ysengrin.
Seems both stone and wood are flowing out of the jaws and shaping Loup. Pretty sure those are the jaws of the handsome devil Coyote.
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Post by basser on Nov 23, 2020 8:16:30 GMT
Waited all weekend to find out what's up with Zims? Too bad! Loup time.
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jocobo
Junior Member
Posts: 78 
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Post by jocobo on Nov 23, 2020 8:23:45 GMT
The Stone pushing into Loup's mind reminds me of similar imagery we've seen involving bone appendages doing the same to other characters.
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Post by merry76 on Nov 23, 2020 8:58:12 GMT
Sleeping...
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 23, 2020 11:25:54 GMT
Mystery solved!
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Post by machiavelli33 on Nov 23, 2020 13:23:45 GMT
"...the way others see him, the way he sees himself, and the way he truly is. I want you to keep in mind the REAL Ysengrin!" www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=685We see only one image, here - one that, if one were to "project" Loup the way Ysengrin was projected in the linked comic, seems almost like a merger of all three "versions." If I'm correct, then perhaps there is no one projection that is the REAL Ysengrin - instead, they are ALL the real Ysengrin. We are a sum total of how we see ourselves, how others see us, and how we are when nobody is looking (including ourselves). There is only one projection here. And it is Loup. -------------------------------- On an equally interesting but sort of unrelated note, a big feature of this image of Loup are the Coyote-like jaws, looming over the complete form of Loup - the trees growing through the jaws suggest they are static and thus non-threatening, but their pose is continually menacing - if we are to believe Coyote is well and truly dead, then Loup will never stop being his own person (broken and flawed as it may be), but he will also never escape from under the shadow in which he was formed. |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 23, 2020 13:43:47 GMT
This is almost like a treatise page. Loup connected to stone and wood. Is he listening to the Forest? The smiling jaws of Coyote around him. Do they threaten him or protect him? Is he confined, or in a place of refuge? And where is this scene taking place? Could this be something Zimmy is seeing? The background color is something like the sepia-toned nothing that we've seen behind Zimmy in this chapter, but it's not quite the same color; it's got a bit less red and a bit more blue.
Loup's forehead symbol has changed again since we last saw him. It changed into its V shape when Coyote revealed the goose bone's memory to him – that the lake water was another memory – but Coyote clearly did something else at the same time, and I've noticed that Coyote didn't say "everything you need to control the Forest is inside you" until after this happened. But now the V shape has another spot within it.
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Post by ctso74 on Nov 23, 2020 14:20:26 GMT
Is this actually(etherically) happening to Zimmy, or is this some kind of prophetic vision?
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Post by blazingstar on Nov 23, 2020 15:38:03 GMT
This page is a direct parallel to how Coyote looked the day he told Annie his great secret. Clearly, Loup is still working on how to unite the Forest (right half) and the Court (left half) for...some reason. He doesn't just want Ysengrin's memories back, he wants to be in complete control of everything and everyone. And this whole time, he's been constantly changing into something new (the symbol on his forehead is in flux). We don't know the exact changes. But the thought is terrifying. |
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Post by shaihulud on Nov 23, 2020 18:15:23 GMT
This image makes me think maybe coyote isn't really as dead as he claims. That like the story of the goose, he is just faking being dead, but is actually the tree and the lake too. The forest IS coyote, not just something external that he controls.
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Post by fia on Nov 23, 2020 19:38:48 GMT
(1) The first moment showing Loup's forehead crest was here as he's talking to Coyote. Subtle! Wasn't there one or two pages before that! (2) I'm still wondering who cut off Ysengrin's ear. Probably the Court, based on the Treatises. Does that have anything to do with this? Unlikely, but the ear thing has been a part of Ysengrin's design for so long, it's got to have some kind of plot relevance. (3) Wondering what the Omega device is going to be. Given the odd weather pattern... could it be a flood of epic proportions? Or perhaps will a flood be Loup's response? This is all purely speculative of course. But the missing gift is water... |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 23, 2020 20:05:03 GMT
Yep! It changed when Coyote revealed the memory from the goose bone. And I think it's fairly clear that he did something else at the same time. Something else was in that goose bone. I wonder if the memory of that is also in the lake water. How could Coyote put the memory of the goose bone's nature into the lake water when the memory of the lake water's nature is in the goose bone? Because he's Coyote! Coyote bit it off. It's shown in the "Coyote" extra comic. He did so in response to Ysengrin calling the "ants" (symbolizing humans) insignificant, kicking over their anthill. Renard had expressed his interest in watching them to see what they did, which Coyote either agreed with or pretended to agree with, to get on Renard's good side. Ysengrin expressed disdain toward the ants, and Coyote reacted with some kind of extreme fury. Interestingly, Coyote's been trying to give power to Renard for almost as long as he's known him. Only relatively recently, when he fell in love with Surma, did Renard actually want any of Coyote's powers. Oh that's interesting; I hadn't thought of that. No rain or clouds have been happening in the Court for a while, though it's hard to tell for how long exactly. Perhaps as long as the lake water's been in the Court's hands? |
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Post by saardvark on Nov 23, 2020 20:21:23 GMT
Possibly interesting is that Loup is not the only creature with an "evolving" marking - there's Zim's shirt patch changes as well, and has recently grown more prominent: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2391 Are they both responding the same thing/event currently? |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 23, 2020 22:07:31 GMT
The whole "it does not seem to alter much" thing suggests to me that going back and looking for changes in the weather over the Court might be interesting. How long's it been since we've seen any clouds or weather in the Court or the Forest? Last time we saw a cloud in the sky: near the end of chapter 76. (But it's out over the ocean.) Before that: this may be a cloud, near the end of chapter 68. And on the previous page. And the page before that (with Jones falling through the clouds). They likely aren't smoke from Loup's attack, because it's been quiet for months. The sky in chapter 67 is gray, but is the sky overcast with clouds, or is it smoke/dust from Loup's attack, which just happened? (Coyote gives the lake water to Parley in chapter 62. But there have been clouds in the sky since then, so my momentary thought, "have there been any clouds in the sky since the Court's had the lake water?" is nothing but smoke. There have been.) Before that, the sky's been cloudless since chapter 53, when it was apparently foggy out. Before that, there were clouds in the sky in chapter 49, but (1) they were generated by the Ether syphons, and (2) they were out over the ocean, not over the Court. The clouds at the beginning of the chapter were natural and over the Court, though. Clouds appear in the sky in chapter 45, and quite beautifully at that. And I'm going to stop there. I wonder whether the Court has some sort of control over the weather. The Ether stations can cause rain by sucking water out of the environment and then releasing it into the air, which might help plants grow, but unless they also release the Ether back into the air as well, it's not the sort of rain that can help Zimmy. Has rain we've seen in the story always been due to Ether station experiments one way or another? Hard to tell. |
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Post by blahzor on Nov 23, 2020 22:14:03 GMT
Is Loup gonna be dumb enough to copy her ability? That's kinda scary
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Post by blahzor on Nov 23, 2020 23:05:40 GMT
Yep! It changed when Coyote revealed the memory from the goose bone. And I think it's fairly clear that he did something else at the same time. Something else was in that goose bone. I wonder if the memory of that is also in the lake water. How could Coyote put the memory of the goose bone's nature into the lake water when the memory of the lake water's nature is in the goose bone? Because he's Coyote! Coyote bit it off. It's shown in the "Coyote" extra comic. He did so in response to Ysengrin calling the "ants" (symbolizing humans) insignificant, kicking over their anthill. Renard had expressed his interest in watching them to see what they did, which Coyote either agreed with or pretended to agree with, to get on Renard's good side. Ysengrin expressed disdain toward the ants, and Coyote reacted with some kind of extreme fury. Interestingly, Coyote's been trying to give power to Renard for almost as long as he's known him. Only relatively recently, when he fell in love with Surma, did Renard actually want any of Coyote's powers. Oh that's interesting; I hadn't thought of that. No rain or clouds have been happening in the Court for a while, though it's hard to tell for how long exactly. Perhaps as long as the lake water's been in the Court's hands? If you believe your great and impressive powers come from humans memories/stories/lore. You will not give it to someone who'd kill them all. You live forever as long as thier alive |
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Post by todd on Nov 24, 2020 0:21:53 GMT
If you believe your great and impressive powers come from humans memories/stories/lore. You will not give it to someone who'd kill them all. You live forever as long as thier alive The evidence we have is that Coyote and his fellow etheric beings' power and existence comes from the dead humans (such as the man who, dying in the desert, saw a coyote waiting to eat him as the architect of his downfall instead of a mere scavenger), so it wouldn't make any difference to them if the humans were all dead. Not to mention that, since the Court's work is somehow jeopardizing the Forest, wiping out the Court might seem necessary for self-preservation. |
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 24, 2020 3:34:42 GMT
If you believe your great and impressive powers come from humans memories/stories/lore. You will not give it to someone who'd kill them all. You live forever as long as thier alive The evidence we have is that Coyote and his fellow etheric beings' power and existence comes from the dead humans (such as the man who, dying in the desert, saw a coyote waiting to eat him as the architect of his downfall instead of a mere scavenger), so it wouldn't make any difference to them if the humans were all dead. I'm not so sure. It's unclear whether creatures like Coyote can cease to exist if people stop telling their stories. We know that when humans die and go into the ether, the world continues to spin. If humans didn't keep dying... would it stop? |
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Post by blahzor on Nov 24, 2020 12:23:16 GMT
The evidence we have is that Coyote and his fellow etheric beings' power and existence comes from the dead humans (such as the man who, dying in the desert, saw a coyote waiting to eat him as the architect of his downfall instead of a mere scavenger), so it wouldn't make any difference to them if the humans were all dead. I'm not so sure. It's unclear whether creatures like Coyote can cease to exist if people stop telling their stories. We know that when humans die and go into the ether, the world continues to spin. If humans didn't keep dying... would it stop? If we go full egotistical of humans. The forrest creatues would also lose the ability to tell stories to give some sort of powers to myths like coyote so they couldn't even. Be a fallback on recycled ether. The world would still soon probably tho |
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Post by todd on Nov 24, 2020 12:46:50 GMT
In any case, the Court isn't "all the humans in the world", just a small group of them that are becoming a problem to Gilltie Wood. The rest of the humans would continue on.
If wiping out the Court would endanger the etheric beings' existence, of course, that gives them a problem; the Court's experiments are apparently threatening the etheric world (hence Loup's war on it), and it seems likely that the only way of getting the Court to stop would be to destroy it. So the forest-folk would be in danger of ceasing to exist if they get rid of the Court and in danger of ceasing to exist if they don't get rid of it.
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Post by blahzor on Nov 24, 2020 14:46:09 GMT
I'm saying Y's or Loup because he's partly Y's wouldn't just stop at the court
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Post by maxptc on Nov 25, 2020 2:31:39 GMT
I'm saying Y's or Loup because he's partly Y's wouldn't just stop at the court I disagree, when Y was talking through Loup, he seemed like he didn't want to destroy the court, just stop it. Loup may want to attack beyond the Court eventually, but I don't think Y would have carried out an extended attack beyond dealing with the court. |
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Post by blahzor on Nov 25, 2020 3:53:44 GMT
I'm saying Y's or Loup because he's partly Y's wouldn't just stop at the court I disagree, when Y was talking through Loup, he seemed like he didn't want to destroy the court, just stop it. Loup may want to attack beyond the Court eventually, but I don't think Y would have carried out an extended attack beyond dealing with the court. The court doesn't seem the type to stop something without total destruction so would force Y's hand. That would make him think all humans wouldn't just stop due to man's curiosity. And he has just enough anger to try and do it |
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Post by todd on Nov 25, 2020 12:46:59 GMT
I disagree, when Y was talking through Loup, he seemed like he didn't want to destroy the court, just stop it. Loup may want to attack beyond the Court eventually, but I don't think Y would have carried out an extended attack beyond dealing with the court. I'm not sure there is any way to stop the Court from carrying out its experiments, other than wiping it out. Its people have been working on this project for far too many generations to give it up (especially since they're apparently on the verge of fulfilling it). What would make them renounce it? The fact that it could hurt a forest filled with talking animals and "savages", whom they look upon as their inferiors? (Not to mention that, after all the trouble they've had with Gilltie Wood, this might seem like an incentive - eradicate those pests once and for all.) |
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Post by maxptc on Nov 25, 2020 23:21:21 GMT
I disagree, when Y was talking through Loup, he seemed like he didn't want to destroy the court, just stop it. Loup may want to attack beyond the Court eventually, but I don't think Y would have carried out an extended attack beyond dealing with the court. I'm not sure there is any way to stop the Court from carrying out its experiments, other than wiping it out. Its people have been working on this project for far too many generations to give it up (especially since they're apparently on the verge of fulfilling it). What would make them renounce it? The fact that it could hurt a forest filled with talking animals and "savages", whom they look upon as their inferiors? (Not to mention that, after all the trouble they've had with Gilltie Wood, this might seem like an incentive - eradicate those pests once and for all.) I mean, if you destroy the project and anyone involved, and the project isn't the size of the court, that stops it. I think that's where Y would have stopped, I don't think he has as much a problem with the Court and humans just existing anymore, thanks to Annie. I don't think stopping all experiments is something Y would have cared about, just what he precived as an imminent threat |
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 26, 2020 10:27:48 GMT
I'm not sure there is any way to stop the Court from carrying out its experiments, other than wiping it out. Its people have been working on this project for far too many generations to give it up (especially since they're apparently on the verge of fulfilling it). What would make them renounce it? The fact that it could hurt a forest filled with talking animals and "savages", whom they look upon as their inferiors? (Not to mention that, after all the trouble they've had with Gilltie Wood, this might seem like an incentive - eradicate those pests once and for all.) I mean, if you destroy the project and anyone involved, and the project isn't the size of the court, that stops it. I think that's where Y would have stopped, I don't think he has as much a problem with the Court and humans just existing anymore, thanks to Annie. I don't think stopping all experiments is something Y would have cared about, just what he precived as an imminent threat Add to that: He also wanted the humans to fear the Gods of the Forest. Nobody can fear you if you kill them all. |
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echo
Junior Member
Currently contemplating if Tom's post counts are a reflection of timeloops, or a CSS trick?
Posts: 60
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Post by echo on Nov 30, 2020 23:03:51 GMT
I disagree, when Y was talking through Loup, he seemed like he didn't want to destroy the court, just stop it. Loup may want to attack beyond the Court eventually, but I don't think Y would have carried out an extended attack beyond dealing with the court. The court doesn't seem the type to stop something without total destruction so would force Y's hand. That would make him think all humans wouldn't just stop due to man's curiosity. And he has just enough anger to try and do it Perhaps. But that's the nature of a standstill and a conflict, isn't it? Each side sizing each other up. Seeing if they can try and do it. All while the more fortuitous and capable make moves constantly, while those locked in conflict are locked in a maze of confusion and uncertainty. |
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