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Post by ohthatone on Nov 11, 2020 18:32:21 GMT
Oh! Maybe that's why zimmy was all AAARRGH, because there hasn't been rain. Girl needs an ether break!
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 11, 2020 19:03:24 GMT
Oh! Maybe that's why zimmy was all AAARRGH, because there hasn't been rain. Girl needs an ether break! It's almost as if somebody with control over a bunch of, say, stations that can suck all the Ether out of water, is running them all at full blast. |
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Post by foxurus on Nov 11, 2020 20:18:18 GMT
Fast recap of my previous speculation: I think we can infer from this page and the following that Courtnie used Surma's memory as a verbal cudgel to win one or more arguments with Anthony. Fannie is a version of Antimony that never said those things. In the final page of Get Lost, Annie points out that she has been alone with Tony plenty of times, but he is always awkward around her. I always interpreted Anja and Kat's reactions as implying that Tony's awkwardness stems from the fact that he sees his dead wife every time he looks at his daughter (but maybe I totally missed the mark there). Whatever Tony's reason for treating the two Annies differently, I feel like his treatment of Court Annie is how he always treated his daughter back when he only had one. I don't have a good explanation for his ability to relax around Forest Annie, but whatever it is, I'm not convinced it's because of something that happened in the six months that Forest Annie missed. Social anxiety is striking. But why does it strike with Court Annie and Pre-Split Annie but not as much Forest Annie or most other people? Social anxiety DOES strike Tony with most other people. He just knows how to deal with it while he's at work, where he can keep a strictly professional relationship. It's been theorized before in this very forum that he sees Forest!Annie as a "new" Annie he can start over with, and have the relationship he wish he had with the Annie he's spent 6 months with. Hot take: Something happened between Anthony and Court Annie over the six months (perhaps the argument about her makeup) that led to Anthony having an emotional breakthrough regarding his daughter. But because she was part of the argument which spurred the breakthrough, and because it'd be so obvious that it was the argument that changed things, he'd have to say, "I was wrong, you were right," which is immensely shameful and difficult for him to do. He's probably embarrassed that he even had the argument with her, and wishes to just forget about it. The important thing is: instead of being unable to talk to her because of his past actions, now he can't talk to her because of his actions in the past six months. Enter Forest Annie, who doesn't have any memory of this argument. The weight is lifted. Now he can act upon that breakthrough he had with Court Annie, without acknowledging whatever caused it. And unfortunately, Forest Annie gets to reap the benefits of Court Annie's hard work. |
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Post by maxptc on Nov 12, 2020 6:02:22 GMT
So to me this seems like he really is trying. Huh. Only idea I have is that Tony is genuinely uncomfortable with Court Annie because she is, in his mind even if he knows better, his dimensions Surma/own child hybrid. He knows she isn't Surma, and he may even know about the details of Loup nonsense, but its like "hey thats my wife and my daughter. Sure hope I can act naturally and not make this interaction a nightmare for both of us. I mean sure I'm socailly awkward but I won't let that work against me." And then this comic happens..
Sure Forrest Annie is also Surma/Annie, but from his perspective its not his Surma, even if it is his daughter. If that makes sense. So Tony can have that disconnect with Forrest Annie, where with Court Annie "dead wife" is probably repeating itself endlessly in his head whenever they interact.
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Post by bicarbonat on Nov 12, 2020 8:29:22 GMT
Wonder if that was just a simple reflex to leaving his computer. Or if he's projecting himself on to annie ("if I were her, I'd start snooping as soon as the opportunity.") Edited to remove stupid question If he were Annie, he would definitely start snooping... My husband and I lock the computer every time we get up. It's not mistrust. It's that I work in account security for a living and it's a habit I cultivate and taught him to cultivate. I am not surprised to see Tony do it. I think it likely indicates a professional habit of secrecy like mine, not anything specifically related to Annie herself. Although he has no particular reason to mistrust her, he has no particular reason to allow her access, either. Yep. In the Before Times, locking your laptop when you stepped away (for lunch, a snack, the bathroom, the copy room, whatever) was emphasized at the office, and for good reason. It was even a yearly part of corporate compliance training. So yeah, Tony is the type to be naturally scrupulous. It's partly why he takes his "mistakes" so hard. But while he may not be locking his computer because of his daughter, I'm certain that he's certain that she'd try to peek. What if she did somehow get in (maybe Renard knowing a passcode? Although that seems too convenient) and we got a connection between that disturbing image of Zimmy, Kat's "bad decisions," and the unchanging weather? [pulls on tinfoil balaclava] |
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Post by wies on Nov 12, 2020 9:52:22 GMT
I haven't much else to say, except that I love reading your thoughts and speculations on what is making Tony act so different to the two Annies.
Also, that last panel's dialogue is so striking. Last page had the "Um" and now he is even losing coherent sentence structure and grammar. This is a very familiar situation for me. When I try to express something intimate, it can sometimes feel like it is stuck in my throat. I start to stutter, stumble over my tongue before I finally can utter it.
So I guess he is struggling to express something important to her, something that's been weighing on his mind. I hope he succeeds. He already showed some vulnerability by speaking a bit broken here, so he may as well just speak it out.
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 12, 2020 10:19:34 GMT
What if she did somehow get in (maybe Renard knowing a passcode? Although that seems too convenient) and we got a connection between that disturbing image of Zimmy, Kat's "bad decisions," and the unchanging weather? [pulls on tinfoil balaclava] If he uses a passcode, she just needs to spy at him etherically next time he unlocks the computer. If he uses face recognition, a photo should do the trick. If he uses a fingerprint scanner... Oh, I'm sure Kat still has a scan of his natural hand stored somewhere on her computer. Of course all of that is only relevant if Annie somehow gets the idea that it's so incredibly important to find out what Tony is doing on his computer, which I doubt at the moment. |
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Post by machiavelli33 on Nov 12, 2020 10:26:44 GMT
Wild speculation time - Court Annie, somehow as a result of the displacement process, projects as multiple people. This makes it so that being alone in a room with her does not feel like being alone in a room with someone - it feels like there are other people there.
CAnnie doesn't mean to do it, and other people only react to it subconsciously, if at all - and most socially adjusted people I imagine don't even notice, especially in chaotic times like these. I'm sure Tony wouldn't even know - all he'd know is that he can't be comfortable around her.
Its definitely not etheric - Forest Annie and Reynard hang out with Court Annie in the ether all the dang time and nothing is amiss. But as we've seen countless times, there are layers and lenses on the world that exist beyond the etheric - Smit's fate threads, the land of the dead, Saslamel the ownership bureaucrat, to name a few. Perhaps it even has something to do with "original Annie" not being around, and somehow being loosely threaded...through Court Annie? Or something? Idfk.
But this all hinges HEAVILY on the one thing young Tony said - that his awkwardness specifically manifests when he's around multiple people. If that's rock solid (and hey, it might not be), then it suggests that his awkwardness means he doesn't feel like he's alone with Court Annie.
It could easily be other anxiety-related things too, but there's a story-driven thread of evidence here.
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 12, 2020 14:43:03 GMT
Wild speculation time - Court Annie, somehow as a result of the displacement process, projects as multiple people. This makes it so that being alone in a room with her does not feel like being alone in a room with someone - it feels like there are other people there. CAnnie doesn't mean to do it, and other people only react to it subconsciously, if at all - and most socially adjusted people I imagine don't even notice, especially in chaotic times like these. I'm sure Tony wouldn't even know - all he'd know is that he can't be comfortable around her. Its definitely not etheric - Forest Annie and Reynard hang out with Court Annie in the ether all the dang time and nothing is amiss. But as we've seen countless times, there are layers and lenses on the world that exist beyond the etheric - Smit's fate threads, the land of the dead, Saslamel the ownership bureaucrat, to name a few. Perhaps it even has something to do with "original Annie" not being around, and somehow being loosely threaded...through Court Annie? Or something? Idfk. But this all hinges HEAVILY on the one thing young Tony said - that his awkwardness specifically manifests when he's around multiple people. If that's rock solid (and hey, it might not be), then it suggests that his awkwardness means he doesn't feel like he's alone with Court Annie. It could easily be other anxiety-related things too, but there's a story-driven thread of evidence here. You're right. The awkwardness-around-multiple-people assumption isn't 100% rock solid. It's what Tony believes of himself, and it's what seems to be borne out by evidence, but nothing's absolutely certain. It could be something else. You're right, too, that we've been shown that there are multiple layers of Ether sensitivity. Annie can see Smitty's "strings," and so could Jeanne, but nobody else can (perhaps Coyote and Loup). It's not impossible that Tony can (consciously or not) detect things that no one else can, and one of those things is some sort of difference between Court Annie and Forest Annie. I'd like to add that it all has to do with whether Tony feels as if he's alone with someone he's comfortable with. It's all based on his feelings. There have been times when he's been alone with someone (for example, Surma, early in the expedition) and was completely emotionally closed off to them. In that case, he still believed at that time that Surma was in a committed relationship with James. I suppose we could question whether perhaps he felt that he wasn't "alone" with her in that sense, but he wasn't comfortable opening up to her, and he started doing so still believing she was committed to James. But anyway, it's all about how he feels, and that just means that there's something about Court Annie that makes him feel uncomfortable and/or not alone. And whatever it is, it isn't the case with Forest Annie. I love all the speculation here! |
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Anthony
Full Member
No, not THAT guy.
Posts: 112
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Post by Anthony on Nov 12, 2020 15:38:25 GMT
Ah, matters to attend to... classic.
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Post by gpvos on Nov 12, 2020 18:29:27 GMT
"I think I [...] something." Careful Anthony, your brain is at risk of overheating. |
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Post by Per on Nov 12, 2020 20:25:23 GMT
He accidentally the WHOLE something.
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Post by saardvark on Nov 12, 2020 21:44:43 GMT
What's that weird little thing next to the clock on the shelf? And my brain goes straight to listening devices. What if it's not about which Annie he's talking to? What if he's only awkward when he thinks the Court's listening, and it's been a coincidence that he thinks the Court's listening whenever Court Annie is around? What if he's had this fear since he discovered something about the Court way back when? Probably wrong, but I'm just thinking about how we're going to get to who/what's "Behind It All." Hmm, rather wild-spec, but what if he thinks Court Annie herself is "bugged", likely without even knowing it (maybe by the Court, to keep close tabs on Tony)? He might figure that Forest Annie, being from another timeline, is unlikely to be bugged, or if bugged, bugged in a different way the present court is unconnected to/unaware of, and so safer to talk with...? |
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Post by machiavelli33 on Nov 13, 2020 5:20:02 GMT
Wild speculation time - Court Annie, somehow as a result of the displacement process, projects as multiple people. This makes it so that being alone in a room with her does not feel like being alone in a room with someone - it feels like there are other people there. CAnnie doesn't mean to do it, and other people only react to it subconsciously, if at all - and most socially adjusted people I imagine don't even notice, especially in chaotic times like these. I'm sure Tony wouldn't even know - all he'd know is that he can't be comfortable around her. Its definitely not etheric - Forest Annie and Reynard hang out with Court Annie in the ether all the dang time and nothing is amiss. But as we've seen countless times, there are layers and lenses on the world that exist beyond the etheric - Smit's fate threads, the land of the dead, Saslamel the ownership bureaucrat, to name a few. Perhaps it even has something to do with "original Annie" not being around, and somehow being loosely threaded...through Court Annie? Or something? Idfk. But this all hinges HEAVILY on the one thing young Tony said - that his awkwardness specifically manifests when he's around multiple people. If that's rock solid (and hey, it might not be), then it suggests that his awkwardness means he doesn't feel like he's alone with Court Annie. It could easily be other anxiety-related things too, but there's a story-driven thread of evidence here. You're right. The awkwardness-around-multiple-people assumption isn't 100% rock solid. It's what Tony believes of himself, and it's what seems to be borne out by evidence, but nothing's absolutely certain. It could be something else. You're right, too, that we've been shown that there are multiple layers of Ether sensitivity. Annie can see Smitty's "strings," and so could Jeanne, but nobody else can (perhaps Coyote and Loup). It's not impossible that Tony can (consciously or not) detect things that no one else can, and one of those things is some sort of difference between Court Annie and Forest Annie. I'd like to add that it all has to do with whether Tony feels as if he's alone with someone he's comfortable with. It's all based on his feelings. There have been times when he's been alone with someone (for example, Surma, early in the expedition) and was completely emotionally closed off to them. In that case, he still believed at that time that Surma was in a committed relationship with James. I suppose we could question whether perhaps he felt that he wasn't "alone" with her in that sense, but he wasn't comfortable opening up to her, and he started doing so still believing she was committed to James. But anyway, it's all about how he feels, and that just means that there's something about Court Annie that makes him feel uncomfortable and/or not alone. And whatever it is, it isn't the case with Forest Annie. I love all the speculation here! I gotta nitpick this - partially to help myself keep all the facts of the story straight so far, so apologies in advance: from what I gathered, Tony was opened up pretty much as soon as they touched down in Brazil. The second thing to come out of his mouth was laughter, after Surma mistook 'entomological' with 'etymological'. I don't think he only opened up after seeing Surma was flying free - reading it back, it really was day 1, hell, HOUR 1 that he loosened up, and by day 2 his hair was fully down, so to speak (when he comes in after letting Surma sleep in). He didn't even know Surma wasn't committed to James until she pashed him straight in his face, wayyyy way later. Maybe there's other examples of him being closed off in 1-on-1 settings - I can't think of any right now, though. But yes - its about how he feels, certainly no argument there. What a fascinating fellow. |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 13, 2020 17:15:43 GMT
I gotta nitpick this - partially to help myself keep all the facts of the story straight so far, so apologies in advance: from what I gathered, Tony was opened up pretty much as soon as they touched down in Brazil. The second thing to come out of his mouth was laughter, after Surma mistook 'entomological' with 'etymological'. I don't think he only opened up after seeing Surma was flying free - reading it back, it really was day 1, hell, HOUR 1 that he loosened up, and by day 2 his hair was fully down, so to speak (when he comes in after letting Surma sleep in). He didn't even know Surma wasn't committed to James until she pashed him straight in his face, wayyyy way later. Oops, yes, you're totally right about that. It has nothing to do with whether he thinks Surma's still with James. |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 13, 2020 17:19:27 GMT
Hmm, rather wild-spec, but what if he thinks Court Annie herself is "bugged", likely without even knowing it (maybe by the Court, to keep close tabs on Tony)? He might figure that Forest Annie, being from another timeline, is unlikely to be bugged, or if bugged, bugged in a different way the present court is unconnected to/unaware of, and so safer to talk with...? This is now one of my theories (among many) about this. In this theory, anyway, Court Annie doesn't have to really be "bugged" by the Court in order for Tony to feel awkward around her – he just has to suspect, think, or feel as if she could be. I'm suspecting that today's update is adding evidence to other theories, however. |
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Post by jda on Nov 13, 2020 17:43:00 GMT
To fully investigate the make-up significance, Fannie should now wear it while Courtney does not.
Also, maybe there is significance on the make-up: remember this page where StillUnitedAnnie woke up from coma, Zimmy's etheric voyage, and clipping Tony?
Kat handled her the make-up to put on, and she hesitated "Maybe later". I think that was partially bc the elemental near-extraction from her soul left her dissociated from it.
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Post by foxurus on Nov 14, 2020 7:56:06 GMT
Also, maybe there is significance on the make-up: remember this page where StillUnitedAnnie woke up from coma, Zimmy's etheric voyage, and clipping Tony? Kat handled her the make-up to put on, and she hesitated "Maybe later". I think that was partially bc the elemental near-extraction from her soul left her dissociated from it. Huh! I forgot about that. Are there any other popular theories as to why she declined to put it on? |
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 14, 2020 17:39:38 GMT
Also, maybe there is significance on the make-up: remember this page where StillUnitedAnnie woke up from coma, Zimmy's etheric voyage, and clipping Tony? Kat handled her the make-up to put on, and she hesitated "Maybe later". I think that was partially bc the elemental near-extraction from her soul left her dissociated from it. Huh! I forgot about that. Are there any other popular theories as to why she declined to put it on? I always thought, since we'd just found out that Annie's makeup was her mask, that she realized she didn't need to have her mask on around Kat. |
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Post by machiavelli33 on Nov 15, 2020 13:20:27 GMT
I always thought, since we'd just found out that Annie's makeup was her mask, that she realized she didn't need to have her mask on around Kat. Its definitely the primary message of that scene, and what feels like the proper emotional takeaway. But this is wildspec, after all. SOMETHING is making Tony react, and its not unreasonable to think there might also be more to that makeup than meets the eye (and cheeks, and lips). |
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