[2387] It didn't work!

[Timberwere]

The way that Tony is gripping that armrest shows that he is under acute stress and/or in pain seeing Court Annie. I hope this will lead to some explanation on the next pages...

[justhalf]

I guess Tony knew about the ruse and is actually trying to be close to both of them, but failed.

(also, the title should be "It didn't work!", not "It's not working!")

[wies]

That "Um." seems also significant. He is usually precise with his words. Wonder if those weather readings will be important. Maybe he is scanning for Angels too?

[madjack]

Maybe the simplest way is also the best and Forest!Annie should just ask him what the deal is. Might be a bit of a cruel blow to Court!Annie if he can open up to her de facto twin but not her though.

Wait maybe that's it. He can tell which one is the Evil Twin.

Edit: Panel 5, denoting the distance between them, ouch.

[Timberwere]

Nov 9, 2020 8:12:42 GMT justhalf said:

I guess Tony knew about the ruse and is actually trying to be close to both of them, but failed.

That's my take on it, too. It'll be interesting to see why, and in particular, whether he can finally overcome the problem at some point.

Nov 9, 2020 8:12:42 GMT justhalf said:

(also, the title should be "It didn't work!", not "It's not working!")

True. I've fixed it. Thanks!

[foxurus]

Aw, it's so sad to see both of them trying so hard. This doesn't come naturally to him at all.

[Tenjen]

Nov 9, 2020 8:15:18 GMT wies said:

That "Um." seems also significant. He is usually precise with his words. Wonder if those weather readings will be important. Maybe he is scanning for Angels too?

it seems to indicate he is trying atleast but is bad at this.

weather readings = zimmy tie in

[Timberwere]

Completely unrelated note: I like how Tony is working in his stocking feet. That seems like a whole lot of letting his hair down for him.

[imaginaryfriend]

Nov 9, 2020 8:16:05 GMT madjack said:

Maybe the simplest way is also the best and Forest!Annie should just ask him what the deal is. Might be a bit of a cruel blow to Court!Annie if he can open up to her de facto twin but not her though.

The problem with doing that is that he might tell her why and it might be something that Courtnie wouldn't want to hear. She wants a more favorable relationship with him, not to understand why he does what he does. Besides, why do the simple thing when you can implement another zany scheme?

[csj]

Somebody has to write up the etherial weather report!

today's weather; sunny with a chance of migranes

[fia]

I, too, have a father that will sometimes not talk and totally emotionally clam up, and: it is the worst.

I'm starting to lean a little towards the "strong emotional guilt" category, after seeing that armrest grip. He's only ever known Annie (and Court Annie) as the source of his beloved wife's imminent demise. But! Rather than blame her, he has probably entirely taken up the blame himself. He probably thinks Annie should hate him because it's "his" fault he couldn't save her mother (and also he thinks he almost killed her). Renard told Annie it was her existence that did it – but I don't think he meant it and I think none of us think he blames Annie. Maybe that's one reason Renard could love her and protect her. He probably has blamed Tony! Or maybe he knew Surma well enough to know it was her choice, and doesn't actually have a thought about Annie being responsible.

And since Annie looks so much like Surma, it's probably even harder for Tony when she looks so much like Surma by wearing make-up. Maybe Annie trying so hard to remember her mother makes Tony feel even worse? Like, "this poor child wouldn't be without her mother if it weren't for me." I can't imagine he can function with that on his mind all the time.

But maybe when Forest Annie came back, he was so surprised that he felt genuine relief. Maybe he thinks, "Loup brought Forest Annie into the world!" and not so much "I wanted a child and I killed her mother". And so he can just love Forest Annie straight and regular, without any guilt. Loup relieved him of that burden.

And maybe, because of that, now he's increasingly aware of the way in which he can't relax around Court Annie, and wants to make amends, but finds it really hard, especially because now he's super self-conscious of how difficult it has been for him to be a loving father to her?

Or it could be the other etheric thing. I dunno. I like this theory ^

[Eily]

Somehow I ended up think about Lord Asriel in His Dark Materials (beware spoilers), who was very cold to his daughter when she came back to him, only to start relaxing when he realized she didn't come alone.

I wonder if that's why Tony is so unconfortable getting along with one of his daughters, because despite what he says, there's still some part of him nagging him about the possibility to sacrifice one to get Surma back (He doesn't have to actually be planning to do it, just having the lingering thought could make him very unconfortable around his daughter). Though now that I think of it, one thing that might explain his difference in behaviour would be that Courtnie is marked by a failed or ongoing attempt at bringing back Surma that Tony started working on during Sylvannie's time in the Forest.

[arcuna]

Given Tony's involvement with the Omega Device (see here and here) and that brief glimpse of Zimmy having a bad day, I can't help but wonder if the weather data in question might pertain to the power station (and others like it). We know that thing tends to put Zimmy on edge.

[theonethatgotaway]

Tony: "yes, you see, I hypothesize that there's a correlation between clouds being present in the sky, and rain falling down. Also, I think that around this time of year, the weather usually gets colder, at what point the rain... it gets replaced by snow."
Courtnie: "BOXBOT, IS THAT YOU IN HUMAN FORM?"

[Gemminie]

Those last three panels – he's actually communicating slightly! Court Annie's hopeful! He made an effort to connect! It was difficult for him, but he could tell she was trying to reach out, so he tried anyway! The smallest thing can carry the greatest weight.

[novia]

I'll just leave this song here.

[DonDueed]

Nov 9, 2020 11:55:03 GMT fia said:

I, too, have a father that will sometimes not talk and totally emotionally clam up, and: it is the worst.

I'm starting to lean a little towards the "strong emotional guilt" category, after seeing that armrest grip. He's only ever known Annie (and Court Annie) as the source of his beloved wife's imminent demise. But! Rather than blame her, he has probably entirely taken up the blame himself. He probably thinks Annie should hate him because it's "his" fault he couldn't save her mother (and also he thinks he almost killed her). Renard told Annie it was her existence that did it – but I don't think he meant it and I think none of us think he blames Annie. Maybe that's one reason Renard could love her and protect her. He probably has blamed Tony! Or maybe he knew Surma well enough to know it was her choice, and doesn't actually have a thought about Annie being responsible.

And since Annie looks so much like Surma, it's probably even harder for Tony when she looks so much like Surma by wearing make-up. Maybe Annie trying so hard to remember her mother makes Tony feel even worse? Like, "this poor child wouldn't be without her mother if it weren't for me." I can't imagine he can function with that on his mind all the time.

But maybe when Forest Annie came back, he was so surprised that he felt genuine relief. Maybe he thinks, "Loup brought Forest Annie into the world!" and not so much "I wanted a child and I killed her mother". And so he can just love Forest Annie straight and regular, without any guilt. Loup relieved him of that burden.

And maybe, because of that, now he's increasingly aware of the way in which he can't relax around Court Annie, and wants to make amends, but finds it really hard, especially because now he's super self-conscious of how difficult it has been for him to be a loving father to her?

Or it could be the other etheric thing. I dunno. I like this theory ^

There are really two mysteries.  The first, and potentially simpler one, is the question of how he tells the two Annies apart, effortlessly and perfectly.  Possibly he's just that good at picking up on the subtle physical or behavioral differences, or possibly it's an etherial ability, or some of each.  That's still unclear, but whatever the reason he's 100% accurate in his identifications.

The other mystery is the one fia addresses above, namely, why does he treat the two Annies so differently?  The leading theory there seems to be that Courtney somehow "reads" as more than one person to Tony, thereby triggering his social phobias, whereas Fannie is detected as a single individual, which allows him to let his hair down with her.  But it's not clear why there would be such a distinction.

That's why fia's proposal is so clever -- it provides a simple, non-etherial explanation for Tony's reaction to Courtney based on events that took place during the "missing" six months.  But it still leaves a few holes to be patched up, I think.  For one thing, Tony was cold to Annie prior to the split, so why wouldn't that still apply to Fannie?  The suggestion above (less guilt since Loup was responsible for Fannie's existence) is possible, but it seems to me that Tony's reaction(s) to his daughter(s) goes far deeper than that; it's something that he has no control over even at that emotional level.

I'm starting to think that the two mysteries are somehow linked -- that there's some real difference between the Annies that BOTH triggers Tony's reactions to them AND allows him to instantly sense the difference.  But I don't have a clear idea about what that would be.  The interesting thing about this page is that now Tony himself seems to be aware of the issue and is making an effort to do something about it.

[novia]

The key difference is that one of the Annies is This Tony's daughter and the other one is Some Other Tony's daughter.

My theory is there is some sort of contractual curse on Tony. The real question here is, why did the ownership contract over Renard (which was executed before the bridge timeline splitting incident) remain in effect for all Annies, but not this "curse contract"? We know from flashbacks that this "curse contract" was also in effect before the bridge. Maybe the answer is that there are more ways to relate objects to one another than contracts.

[ohthatone]

My thinking* is that court annie is the one that's been around this whole time and Tony still doesnt know how to interact with her. She's the constant. She's the one he's had to interact with the past 6 months for better or worse and She's the one he's trying to seek forgiveness from in his own way. In comes forest annie and here is someone the same but different. She hasn't spent considerable time with him and he can essentially hit reset with her.
How he interacts with forest annie is they way he wants to interact with court annie but for the awkwardness of being around her more and being reminded of his constant eff ups.
*proved wrong 100% of the time

[ctso74]

Nov 9, 2020 14:54:10 GMT ohthatone said:

My thinking* is that court annie is the one that's been around this whole time and Tony still doesnt know how to interact with her. She's the constant. She's the one he's had to interact with the past 6 months for better or worse and She's the one he's trying to seek forgiveness from in his own way. In comes forest annie and here is someone the same but different. She hasn't spent considerable time with him and he can essentially hit reset with her.
How he interacts with forest annie is they way he wants to interact with court annie but for the awkwardness of being around her more and being reminded of his constant eff ups.
*proved wrong 100% of the time

That's my guess, as well.
Plus, how do we even know, that he literally sees Courtnie the same as we do? He could see a delusion of her covered in blood, or his late wife standing behind her. That grip is probably him trying to reach out, but maybe it's guilt and fear.

[basser]

Court Annie is still connected to Zimmy but Forest Annie ain't I'ma die on this hill y'all.

[ohthatone]

Nov 9, 2020 15:23:19 GMT basser said:

Court Annie is still connected to Zimmy but Forest Annie ain't I'ma die on this hill y'all.

Not bad. Might be worth asking loup just to see how he answers. He's obviously no fan of Tony's but I think he'd let something slip about the court.

[wies]

One reason he is trying to reach out now is because he knows Courtnie is clothed like Forest Annie. It is hard to not see that as Courtnie being aware of the difference in his treatment of them and disliking that, and that realization might have just now spurred him on.

[basser]

Yoooo wait I just had a thought - only things in the comic with Greek letters for names are Gamma, Zeta, and the Omega device. Tony has been involved with the Omega device for a long time and they gave him equipment related to it in order to "research Surma's pregnancy". Tony is also oddly chill about helping Kat make crazy biotech androids.

What if Zimmy and Gamma were earlier versions? An attempt to do what the Omega device does except biologically based instead of tech? And Tony accidentally his own daughter into an etheric silo, whoops.

Edit: And why would you want to research Surma's pregnancy in relation to this? Because Surma's child is uniquely able to draw etheric power to herself, siphoning the stuff out of her mother, and they're trying to build a machine that siphons etheric power out of the air. If you wanted to replicate that effect maybe you'd make a copy of that child. Maybe you'd screw it up and make a child who siphons ether until she creates Not-Birmingham instead. Whoops.

[pyradonis]

Panel five: "Why is this stupid room so big?!"

[gpvos]

I thought we were led to believe that Forest Annie is the "original" Annie and Court Annie the "copy" snatched from another timeline.[1] So if it's something etheric or contractual, we should expect that Tony still has trouble relating to Forest Annie, and could be good chums with Court Annie. Yet it's the reverse. So, either it's Court Annie that is the original, or it's more of a normal(ish) relationship thing, and Tony's problem relating to Annie simply transferred to the only Annie around, i.e., Court Annie, and Forest Annie is "new" to him and therefore doesn't cause him to lock up.

[1] Apart from the as yet unexplained shenanigans revealed by Clippy that actually the original Annie is *also* from another timeline, but let's assume that that happened earlier.

[coastal]

Help me out guys - has there been anywhere in the comic before now that pointed toward the Omega device and the power stations being connected somehow?

[speedwell]

Nov 9, 2020 19:05:42 GMT gpvos said:

I thought we were led to believe that Forest Annie is the "original" Annie and Court Annie the "copy" snatched from another timeline. So if it's something etheric or contractual, we should expect that Tony still has trouble relating to Forest Annie, and could be good chums with Court Annie. Yet it's the reverse. So, either it's Court Annie that is the original, or it's more of a normal(ish) relationship thing, and Tony's problem relating to Annie simply transferred to the only Annie around, i.e., Court Annie, and Forest Annie is "new" to him and therefore doesn't cause him to lock up.

[1] Apart from the as yet unexplained shenanigans revealed by Clippy that actually the original Annie is *also* from another timeline, but let's assume that that happened earlier.

I'm kind of stuck on the idea that Tony had to have traveled outside and between worlds. What if he's not the Tony who belongs to this world?

(What if Zimmy and Gamma are from another world? What if Boxbot is from another world? What if the head of cabbage I bought today at Lidl is from another world? I need to settle down, ffs.)

[stclair]

My recollection is that the spirit that showed up to bust Kat's chops over the Arrow revealed that neither of these Annies actually belongs in the current timeline...

[blazingstar]

He's trying! Tony's nervous (the armchair grip), but he makes an effort to say more than two words to Courtnie, and actually forces himself to keep the conversation going, and it's probably one of the hardest thing he's ever had to do in his life because opening up like this (even about spreadsheets) goes against his entire personality. But he's trying to change. I can SEE it. He's TRYING. 

I am so proud of Tony in this moment. A baby step forward is still a step forward. And it means he's capable of change.