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Post by Nnelg on Sept 18, 2020 17:45:01 GMT
I'm also hoping that in this chapter we learn what killed the Tic-toc - was it the rapid time travel that the bird couldn't handle? The Tic-toc hasn't gone to the distant past to become a sacred icon of the robots yet. I'm betting that it doesn't die saving Antimony at all, but gets damaged somewhen else and travels back as its final act. I've suspected as much for a while, and this page all but confirms it in my mind. |
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manabi
Junior Member
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Post by manabi on Sept 18, 2020 19:31:31 GMT
I recently went back and read the parts when the Tic-tocs rescued her, and I tried counting how many there were. It was confusing at the time because each panel showed a different number of birds, so I couldn't figure out how many there were total. There's 3, 5, and then 2 in the 3 panels they appear in. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=124It's difficult to count on page 124, but I think you missed some: Page 124 - panel 1: 1 (Based on 1 sound)
- panel 2: 2 (Based on 2 sounds)
- panel 3: 3 birds, 3 sounds
- panel 4: 3 birds, 3 sounds again
- panel 5: 6 birds, 5 sounds (2 holding Annie, 2 on left side, 1 diving down above Annie, 1 below her. Diving bird doesn't have a sound by it.)
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Post by netherdan on Sept 18, 2020 20:12:05 GMT
Panel 3: The Madness Place. Edit: also, not a loop, but a copy/pase desync. Interesting. Oh, she's just shifting them. That's okay then, right? She skipped the whole learning curve of time travel shenanigans and went straight to god-like powers, nothing to worry about |
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Post by quirkykelly on Sept 18, 2020 20:42:42 GMT
I recently went back and read the parts when the Tic-tocs rescued her, and I tried counting how many there were. It was confusing at the time because each panel showed a different number of birds, so I couldn't figure out how many there were total. There's 3, 5, and then 2 in the 3 panels they appear in. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=124It's difficult to count on page 124, but I think you missed some: Page 124 - panel 1: 1 (Based on 1 sound)
- panel 2: 2 (Based on 2 sounds)
- panel 3: 3 birds, 3 sounds
- panel 4: 3 birds, 3 sounds again
- panel 5: 6 birds, 5 sounds (2 holding Annie, 2 on left side, 1 diving down above Annie, 1 below her. Diving bird doesn't have a sound by it.)
Oh, I totally missed diving bird! It looks so different, it's just a blur. I also wasn't counting the sounds, but this page makes more sense now - they're increasing in number as Kat keeps adding more time loops/shifting/copy and paste with her controller! Thanks for pointing that out. |
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Post by quirkykelly on Sept 18, 2020 20:54:34 GMT
If you go back and listen to his commentary on the YouTube channel the TicToc chapter is the one he says it's where the overall story finally solidified to him. So yes he's planned this in chapter 7 That's amazing! So he's had this overall story for 14 years. Wow, I'm so impressed by his creativity and long-term dedication to this story. I'd suspected as much, since he does such a great job of tying back old plotlines and characters into future developments. I should listen to those YouTube commentaries sometime. |
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Post by brilliantgrey on Sept 18, 2020 22:08:20 GMT
I'm more excited for what we see with the tic toc AFTER it saves Annie.
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Post by DonDueed on Sept 19, 2020 0:17:18 GMT
Time shifting by one second makes no sense at all to me.
Suppose she shifts the Tic-Toc one second into the past. Then you have two TTs... for one second, then you're back to one again.
Or, you shift it one second into the future. Then you have no TTs at all for one second, then one again.
So how is she expecting to get six of them all at the same time, and for many seconds -- long enough to fly to Annie, catch her and bring her down more or less safely?
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Post by blahzor on Sept 19, 2020 0:20:21 GMT
Panel 3: The Madness Place. Edit: also, not a loop, but a copy/pase desync. Interesting. Oh, she's just shifting them. That's okay then, right? She skipped the whole learning curve of time travel shenanigans and went straight to god-like powers, nothing to worry about She is like "they not getting me with this contract stuff again! Loopholes" |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 19, 2020 0:36:08 GMT
Time shifting by one second makes no sense at all to me. Suppose she shifts the Tic-Toc one second into the past. Then you have two TTs... for one second, then you're back to one again. Or, you shift it one second into the future. Then you have no TTs at all for one second, then one again. So how is she expecting to get six of them all at the same time, and for many seconds -- long enough to fly to Annie, catch her and bring her down more or less safely? I think the key is that Kat didn't send multiple 'Tocs back in time, and Kats from other timelines aren't sending additional 'Tocs at in any way that has any impact on this timeline, but this timeline's Kat is separating it/them using time. Etheric tech with Norn assist is making 1/2x=2x etc. The implications being that of the shifted 'Tocs, there was only one (busted) 'Toc existing at the end of the exercise. That would seem to dictate that if one Antimony dies so does the other. I suppose it's possible that a 'Toc gets flung back in time to appear to robots in the early days but I think as things now stand the robots' info/idea about the 'Tocs just might come from some other source. |
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Post by netherdan on Sept 19, 2020 2:03:09 GMT
Time shifting by one second makes no sense at all to me. Suppose she shifts the Tic-Toc one second into the past. Then you have two TTs... for one second, then you're back to one again. Or, you shift it one second into the future. Then you have no TTs at all for one second, then one again. So how is she expecting to get six of them all at the same time, and for many seconds -- long enough to fly to Annie, catch her and bring her down more or less safely? Do you realize that the most likely answer is that Kat has understood a process analogous to the one by which a second Annie has been introduced to this timeline but she just didn't realize it yet? Let that sink in |
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Post by madjack on Sept 19, 2020 2:49:52 GMT
Edit: also, not a loop, but a copy/pase desync. Interesting. if its not a loop, but a desynch, there is still only one bird doing the lifting. Which is apparently not enough to fly Annie very far, but enough to arrest her fall and save her life. But then, why desynch at all? Why not just stick with the one Toc? More/even grip? Edit: also, not a loop, but a copy/pase desync. Interesting. Pretty sure it's going to be a loop. She's going to send the bird back to the time T-1, then T-2, then T-3 so that she has "several" birds at the event but time-delayed from the previous bird by about a second. And then she's going to control all of them at once. Presumably, there's a limit to how many she can manage this way, hence why we have five or six Tic Tocs and not, say, dozens. And, presumably, this is hard to do, which is why it ends with the Tic Toc crashing. Either that or Jean nails it because skeet shooting is fun! Actually, that makes sense, I was picturing her sending them down one at a time then looping them directly during the event, but given she's got the entirety of existence to play with she can just send one somewhere else, then loop until she's got enough, then teleport to beeeeacon to begin. Edit: also, not a loop, but a copy/pase desync. Interesting. Oh, she's just shifting them. That's okay then, right? She skipped the whole learning curve of time travel shenanigans and went straight to god-like powers, nothing to worry about It'd be hilarious if time is only working like that because Kat is forcing it to. |
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Post by saardvark on Sept 19, 2020 3:24:47 GMT
Looking at the old comic, only two Tic-Tocs are really needed to carry Annie. I'm not sure why the others are there at all really. yes, and furthermore, event doesnt seem to jive with Kat's explanation. If she is sending one Toc back with different time shifts, it seems like would never have more than one Toc a present at a given time. They could wink in and out, but its still just one bird, and you're not duplicating them so yould never have more than one at once. There must be multiple birds, otherwise you are creating matter (extra birds) out of nothing. |
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Post by saardvark on Sept 19, 2020 3:30:43 GMT
Time shifting by one second makes no sense at all to me. Suppose she shifts the Tic-Toc one second into the past. Then you have two TTs... for one second, then you're back to one again. Or, you shift it one second into the future. Then you have no TTs at all for one second, then one again. So how is she expecting to get six of them all at the same time, and for many seconds -- long enough to fly to Annie, catch her and bring her down more or less safely? yeah, totally agree. the explanation doesnt jell for me.... I'm probably being too much of a physicist! |
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Post by spritznar on Sept 19, 2020 6:03:46 GMT
Looking at the old comic, only two Tic-Tocs are really needed to carry Annie. I'm not sure why the others are there at all really. yes, and furthermore, event doesnt seem to jive with Kat's explanation. If she is sending one Toc back with different time shifts, it seems like would never have more than one Toc a present at a given time. They could wink in and out, but its still just one bird, and you're not duplicating them so yould never have more than one at once. There must be multiple birds, otherwise you are creating matter (extra birds) out of nothing. if you time travel back to your own past, how many of you are there? 2 - you’ve duplicated yourself. now pretend you mess up some stuff and time travel back to the same point you arrived at to stop your time traveling self from messing up - 3 of you at the same time. rinse, and repeat except instead of trying to stop yourself you’re trying to assist yourself edit: honestly, it’s a lot less time paradoxy if you’re assisting yourself instead of trying to change things... especially if it’s already happened |
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Post by wies on Sept 19, 2020 8:56:34 GMT
It works this way according to me: Kat sends bird 1 at 1.00 am. She realizes she needs more, so she goes to when the bird is at 2.00. She sends the bird at 2.01 to 1.00 with the intention to return that bird after the task to 2.02. That bird then she sends back to 1.00 and so on and on until there are enough Tic Tocs.
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Post by saardvark on Sept 19, 2020 12:36:21 GMT
yes, and furthermore, event doesnt seem to jive with Kat's explanation. If she is sending one Toc back with different time shifts, it seems like would never have more than one Toc a present at a given time. They could wink in and out, but its still just one bird, and you're not duplicating them so yould never have more than one at once. There must be multiple birds, otherwise you are creating matter (extra birds) out of nothing. if you time travel back to your own past, how many of you are there? 2 - you’ve duplicated yourself. now pretend you mess up some stuff and time travel back to the same point you arrived at to stop your time traveling self from messing up - 3 of you at the same time. rinse, and repeat except instead of trying to stop yourself you’re trying to assist yourself edit: honestly, it’s a lot less time paradoxy if you’re assisting yourself instead of trying to change things... especially if it’s already happened no, I don't think so. If you travel to your own past you are no longer in your "present". There is no TicToc at Kat's side with the Norns anymore - its in the past now ... no duplication. Still one Toc, now in the past. Kat's explanation also doesnt work: sending one Toc at multiple separate times should just cause it to wink in and out, since once she sends one to time A, there is no Toc to send to time B (unless she recalls it and resends it - hence the winking). Unless she can duplicate it at the same time as she sends it out, so that she still has a Toc to send to a new time. And that bugs me since it seems to be instant creation out of nothing. I suppose if she had rigged up the Norn timewarp-o-phone to link to her computer, she could have duplicate Tocs made (in the present) and sent whenever, as needed.... Time travel is messy.... |
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Post by arkadi on Sept 19, 2020 12:40:05 GMT
Time shifting by one second makes no sense at all to me. Suppose she shifts the Tic-Toc one second into the past. Then you have two TTs... for one second, then you're back to one again. Or, you shift it one second into the future. Then you have no TTs at all for one second, then one again. So how is she expecting to get six of them all at the same time, and for many seconds -- long enough to fly to Annie, catch her and bring her down more or less safely? yeah, totally agree. the explanation doesnt jell for me.... I'm probably being too much of a physicist! What I'm wondering is how Kat is going to shift the bird without creating multiple timelines, since the Interpreter guy seemed to imply that's how it works. But then, I'm probably not enough of a physicist. I guess I'll just wait and see how it plays out? |
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Post by saardvark on Sept 19, 2020 12:46:06 GMT
It works this way according to me: Kat sends bird 1 at 1.00 am. She realizes she needs more, so she goes to when the bird is at 2.00. She sends the bird at 2.01 to 1.00 with the intention to return that bird after the task to 2.02. That bird then she sends back to 1.00 and so on and on until there are enough Tic Tocs. Hmmm... now that might work. You're effectively stealing the same Toc out of its own timeline in order to have more of it at a single focused time point. Its still conservation of mass, when you sum over all times.... I like it! edit: The Toc would be missing from its future (relative to the Annie-bridge point) timeline by a timespan equal to the sum of the length of time all the Tocs were present saving Annie at the bridge. The only problem with this is that we know the Toc gets damaged in the process of saving Annie. So its future self would not be able to fly to the rescue. So perhaps Kat is borrowing the Toc from the past, which implies that she has/will send one far into the past... which we know she has since the robots know about it. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Sept 19, 2020 17:26:00 GMT
The only problem with this is that we know the Toc gets damaged in the process of saving Annie. So its future self would not be able to fly to the rescue. So perhaps Kat is borrowing the Toc from the past, which implies that she has/will send one far into the past... which we know she has since the robots know about it. That part's easy. You send the Tic Toc after Annie, and that is instance #1. It grabs her and falls most of the way down, but you need another bird to slow her descent so you wink #1 out and send it back to the starting point (+1 second, so it's not on top of itself). Now you have two birds, instances #1 and #2. This time #1 and #2 grab Annie, but #1 won't be around long enough because Annie is falling more slowly, and it winks out half way down in order to become #2. So you have to loop #2 in order to give you instance #3. Now #2 and #3 grab Annie, and #1 winks out early. But you still need another bird because #2 is going to wink out (to become #3) before Annie is safely to the ground, so you have to loop #3 back to become #4. Now #3 and #4 grab Annie, and they get closer to the ground before #3 winks out to become #4. But it's still too early...so you send #4 back to become #5, and now #4 and #5 grab Annie...and on and on. At the end, you only have #N, and that is the one that crashes (or is sliced by Jean) because it's the only one that is left after Annie touches down. Edited to add: But because this has already happened, what Kat's going to see is that a bunch of Tic Tocs start appearing 1 second apart, and the last two grab Annie, and she loops her Tic-Toc back over and over again until it becomes the next-to-last instance of the Tic Toc, which is one of two carrying Annie, loops again once Annie is down to become the last Tic-Toc, which is also carrying Annie, and is the last one remaining because it doesn't have to loop again, and then crashes/gets sliced by Jean. Edited again to add: How Eglamore misses a bunch of birds appearing in the air, 1 second apart/ahead of the previous one, is anyone's guess. |
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Post by gpvos on Sept 19, 2020 21:19:40 GMT
What I'm wondering is how Kat is going to shift the bird without creating multiple timelines, since the Interpreter guy seemed to imply that's how it works. The interpreter guy (which, as we have established, isn't all-knowing by any stretch) says that Coyote-level creatures can create timelines, but that seems to be something that has to be done explicitly. In this universe, timelines don't automatically spring into existence when a time travel event happens. Edit: as clarification, I understood what he said as that Loup first created the new timeline, then shifted Courtnie out of it, as separate actions. |
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Post by netherdan on Sept 19, 2020 23:04:01 GMT
It works this way according to me: Kat sends bird 1 at 1.00 am. She realizes she needs more, so she goes to when the bird is at 2.00. She sends the bird at 2.01 to 1.00 with the intention to return that bird after the task to 2.02. That bird then she sends back to 1.00 and so on and on until there are enough Tic Tocs. So she just has to not look at what happens between 1 am and 2 am and pretend it never happened. That's fine, heh That part's easy. You send the Tic Toc after Annie, and that is instance #1. It grabs her and falls most of the way down, but you need another bird to slow her descent so you wink #1 out and send it back to the starting point (+1 second, so it's not on top of itself). Now you have two birds, instances #1 and #2. This time #1 and #2 grab Annie, but #1 won't be around long enough because Annie is falling more slowly, and it winks out half way down in order to become #2. So you have to loop #2 in order to give you instance #3. Now #2 and #3 grab Annie, and #1 winks out early. But you still need another bird because #2 is going to wink out (to become #3) before Annie is safely to the ground, so you have to loop #3 back to become #4. Now #3 and #4 grab Annie, and they get closer to the ground before #3 winks out to become #4. But it's still too early...so you send #4 back to become #5, and now #4 and #5 grab Annie...and on and on. At the end, you only have #N, and that is the one that crashes (or is sliced by Jean) because it's the only one that is left after Annie touches down. Edited to add: But because this has already happened, what Kat's going to see is that a bunch of Tic Tocs start appearing 1 second apart, and the last two grab Annie, and she loops her Tic-Toc back over and over again until it becomes the next-to-last instance of the Tic Toc, which is one of two carrying Annie, loops again once Annie is down to become the last Tic-Toc, which is also carrying Annie, and is the last one remaining because it doesn't have to loop again, and then crashes/gets sliced by Jean. Edited again to add: How Eglamore misses a bunch of birds appearing in the air, 1 second apart/ahead of the previous one, is anyone's guess. As convoluted as it seems, the more I read it the more sense it makes. And considering the whole event takes just a few seconds, we can assume that one Tic-Toc is popping up each second (matching what we saw originally and what Kat proposed) so during the first second there's only one bird and at the last second that is also true, but while the event is unraveling, we see something like this: T0 = 1 Tic-Toc following; T1 = 2 Tic-Tocs following; T2 = 3 Tic-Tocs following; (the first 3 steps are based on the original fall page) T3 = 2 Tic-Tocs grabbing; 2 following; T4 = 2 Tic-Tocs grabbing; 3 following; T5 = 2 Tic-Tocs grabbing; 4 following; (as seen in the last panel) T6 -> Tn-5 = 2 Tic-Toc grabbing; 4 following; Tn-4 = first swap; 2 Tic-Tocs grabbing; 3 following; Tn-3 = second swap; 2 Tic-Tocs grabbing; 2 following; Tn-2 = third swap; 2 Tic-Tocs grabbing; 1 following; Tn-1 = fourth swap; 2 Tic-Tocs grabbing; Tn = fifth one disappears without a swap; 1 Tic-Toc grabbing; The sudden acceleration drops Annie into the river and catapults the Tic-Toc to the shore, damaging it I think we cracked Kat's algorithm with no "timeline shift" involved, the universe is safe from the robogoddess (for now) |
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Post by saardvark on Sept 20, 2020 0:03:44 GMT
The only problem with this is that we know the Toc gets damaged in the process of saving Annie. So its future self would not be able to fly to the rescue. So perhaps Kat is borrowing the Toc from the past, which implies that she has/will send one far into the past... which we know she has since the robots know about it. That part's easy. You send the Tic Toc after Annie, and that is instance #1. It grabs her and falls most of the way down, but you need another bird to slow her descent so you wink #1 out and send it back to the starting point (+1 second, so it's not on top of itself). Now you have two birds, instances #1 and #2. This time #1 and #2 grab Annie, but #1 won't be around long enough because Annie is falling more slowly, and it winks out half way down in order to become #2. So you have to loop #2 in order to give you instance #3. Now #2 and #3 grab Annie, and #1 winks out early. But you still need another bird because #2 is going to wink out (to become #3) before Annie is safely to the ground, so you have to loop #3 back to become #4. Now #3 and #4 grab Annie, and they get closer to the ground before #3 winks out to become #4. But it's still too early...so you send #4 back to become #5, and now #4 and #5 grab Annie...and on and on. At the end, you only have #N, and that is the one that crashes (or is sliced by Jean) because it's the only one that is left after Annie touches down. Edited to add: But because this has already happened, what Kat's going to see is that a bunch of Tic Tocs start appearing 1 second apart, and the last two grab Annie, and she loops her Tic-Toc back over and over again until it becomes the next-to-last instance of the Tic Toc, which is one of two carrying Annie, loops again once Annie is down to become the last Tic-Toc, which is also carrying Annie, and is the last one remaining because it doesn't have to loop again, and then crashes/gets sliced by Jean. Edited again to add: How Eglamore misses a bunch of birds appearing in the air, 1 second apart/ahead of the previous one, is anyone's guess. That is clever and should work. It still makes sense to me, though, that in a universe with time travel, total mass should be conserved if you average over all time. That way, time travel doesnt create or eliminate any mass, it only moves it in time. Since in your scheme, you have two Tocs for a while, to balance that, you will need some time when there normally would have been a Toc, to have none...e.g., the Toc "disappears" for the time equivalent to Annie's fall. You "borrow" the Toc at one time to double it up at another.... |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 20, 2020 1:23:07 GMT
Not sure conservation of mass applies in the short term. I think that in the Gunnerverse if you can freely send one Toc into the past you can probably send n(Toc) into the past. Kat putting the Toc she built into the stream of time did resolve a paradox but probably was only a requirement because she didn't shift it before sending one in, although I'm unsure the 'Toc getting destroyed in the past would necessarily destroy the remaining one in the present. It should be fine as long as there's only one Toc (destroyed or otherwise) at the end of the process.
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Post by netherdan on Sept 20, 2020 1:30:23 GMT
That is clever and should work. It still makes sense to me, though, that in a universe with time travel, total mass should be conserved if you average over all time. That way, time travel doesnt create or eliminate any mass, it only moves it in time. Since in your scheme, you have two Tocs for a while, to balance that, you will need some time when there normally would have been a Toc, to have none...e.g., the Toc "disappears" for the time equivalent to Annie's fall. You "borrow" the Toc at one time to double it up at another.... And even in the case of Annie's time shift, the mass is constant when averaged over the multiverse. There's a timeline with two Annies but the mass wasn't created from nothing in that timeline, it was subtracted from another one. In the Toc's case, it/they was/were subtracted from the same timeline and thus at the end they must collapse into the single one, but that doesn't seem to be the same for Annie |
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Post by saardvark on Sept 20, 2020 3:04:07 GMT
Not sure conservation of mass applies in the short term. I think that in the Gunnerverse if you can freely send one Toc into the past you can probably send n(Toc) into the past. Conservation of mass wouldn't necessarily apply in the short term, only if you average over the whole timeline. Assuming you start with one Toc, if you send n(Toc) to event Y for m minutes, you must "borrow" m x n minutes of Toc (in which the Toc "winks out" of existence for. while) from somewhere in the Toc timeline. Well, that's my theory at least, to preserve mass conservation in time travel. Otherwise, time travel can potentially create matter out of nothing, which, aside from being a godlike power, leads to complications... what if you set the loop to infinity? The universe fills with Tocs.... |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 20, 2020 4:20:51 GMT
Not sure conservation of mass applies in the short term. I think that in the Gunnerverse if you can freely send one Toc into the past you can probably send n(Toc) into the past. Conservation of mass wouldn't necessarily apply in the short term, only if you average over the whole timeline. Assuming you start with one Toc, if you send n(Toc) to event Y for m minutes, you must "borrow" m x n minutes of Toc (in which the Toc "winks out" of existence for. while) from somewhere in the Toc timeline. Well, that's my theory at least, to preserve mass conservation in time travel. Otherwise, time travel can potentially create matter out of nothing, which, aside from being a godlike power, leads to complications... what if you set the loop to infinity? The universe fills with Tocs.... I'm inclined to agree because I view the Gunnerverse as a continuum between matter and ether, but there hasn't really been anything in the comic to conclusively demonstrate that matter isn't just a temporary form of ether, or something like that... |
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Post by Runningflame on Sept 20, 2020 18:40:29 GMT
Yeah, I don't think we can meaningfully talk about conservation of mass in a universe where a stuffed toy can change into a full-size wolf at will. What we could maybe talk about (which is less physics and more philosophy) is a conservation of entities: no matter what shape and size Reynardine takes, there's only one Reynardine. Which leads to the same result where tic-tocs are concerned: to have two tic-tocs during a given interval of time, you have to borrow the tic-toc from a different interval, resulting in zero tic-tocs during that period of time.
For those still wrapping their heads around the convoluted paths of time-travelling objects, I recommend Neil Gaiman's Fortunately, the Milk as an exercise. There's only ever one bottle of milk (and one gemstone) through the whole story, but it takes a bit of thought to trace out how the lines join up.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Sept 20, 2020 20:42:02 GMT
also, not a loop, but a copy/pase desync. Interesting. Pretty sure it's going to be a loop. She's going to send the bird back to the time T-1, then T-2, then T-3 so that she has "several" birds at the event but time-delayed from the previous bird by about a second. And then she's going to control all of them at once. Presumably, there's a limit to how many she can manage this way, hence why we have five or six Tic Tocs and not, say, dozens. And, presumably, this is hard to do, which is why it ends with the Tic Toc crashing. Either that or Jean nails it because skeet shooting is fun! Yeah, it's a while loop. Although with time being causally static, "while Annie still falls to her death, add Tic Tocs" doesn't quite work. It would have to be "while there are still more tic tocs to send, send more tic tocs." which, boy, that's weird but there you go. |
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Post by todd on Sept 20, 2020 23:41:50 GMT
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the "TicToc in two places at once" question would probably arise even without the multiple TicTocs, because the materials from which Kat will build the TicToc presumably already exist during the "bridge incident".
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Post by saardvark on Sept 21, 2020 2:51:38 GMT
Yeah, I don't think we can meaningfully talk about conservation of mass in a universe where a stuffed toy can change into a full-size wolf at will. What we could maybe talk about (which is less physics and more philosophy) is a conservation of entities: no matter what shape and size Reynardine takes, there's only one Reynardine. An interesting idea. But one could argue (Im not sure I do yet!) that Rey is a special case as a etheric Demi-god type character. Perhaps he (and Coyote and Loup, etc) can use magic/ether to violate mass conservation. He up-masses himself into a wolf by drawing on the ether pool. Maybe! |
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