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Post by philman on Sept 7, 2020 7:01:35 GMT
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Post by madjack on Sept 7, 2020 7:02:55 GMT
Crossing more stuff off that temporal to-do list.
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Post by arf on Sept 7, 2020 9:50:41 GMT
Having accomplished the primary mission of catching a falling Carver, why did the tocs then dump her in the river, I wonder? Wasn't there enough lift for a safe ground landing? Did Jeanne interfere? Were the Annies getting on Kat's nerves at the time? Did they tell her to?
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Post by guntherkrieg on Sept 7, 2020 10:06:07 GMT
I've got mixed feelings about this chapter and this page in general. We already saw this page from another perspective with the (beautifully done) symbolically giant TikTok leading Anja and Donny to the warehouse. There was a great sense of mystery and speculation to that page. Telling this side of that event, mobile phone controlled and all makes it almost banal. The old rule in storytelling is "show, don't tell", I feel that this is going the other way into "tell but also show everything in minute detail", and it loses something because of it. I'm getting a strong sense that this is an author who has entered into the endgame of a tale they've been telling for 15 years and has confused "I don't want things to end" with "answer things in a satisfactory fashion" and has begun to pad things out.
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Post by pyradonis on Sept 7, 2020 10:22:10 GMT
Having accomplished the primary mission of catching a falling Carver, why did the tocs then dump her in the river, I wonder? Wasn't there enough lift for a safe ground landing? Did Jeanne interfere? Were the Annies getting on Kat's nerves at the time? Did they tell her to? Kat will not risk letting the Tic-Toc do anything other than what she was told it did. Which makes pages like this one sadly predictable, since we already know what happened. Hopefully we'll get to learn something new about past events during this clip show.
As an aviation technician, I appreciate the artificial horizon on the remote, though.
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Post by stef1987 on Sept 7, 2020 10:41:01 GMT
Does anyone else find all of this super underwhelming?
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Post by Noximilian on Sept 7, 2020 11:01:18 GMT
I've got mixed feelings about this chapter and this page in general. We already saw this page from another perspective with the (beautifully done) symbolically giant TikTok leading Anja and Donny to the warehouse. There was a great sense of mystery and speculation to that page. Telling this side of that event, mobile phone controlled and all makes it almost banal. The old rule in storytelling is "show, don't tell", I feel that this is going the other way into "tell but also show everything in minute detail", and it loses something because of it. I'm getting a strong sense that this is an author who has entered into the endgame of a tale they've been telling for 15 years and has confused "I don't want things to end" with "answer things in a satisfactory fashion" and has begun to pad things out. I strongly disagree. One, I think that controlling these events with a mobile phone is just as banal, as recording the final message of a ghost with an old tape recorder. Which means it is not. This is how Kat can handle the ether. Two - this comic presented a lot of mysteries. Some of them are with us for years. I do not think that a mystery loses something because it gets answered. Well... not in THIS case. There was an interview with Stephen King, who said that he never explains where the dark forces in his books come from because it would ruin the horror, and besides, the "why" is irrelevant to the story. So there ARE cases when it's better to leave some - or a lot - things in the dark, leave them unexplained. However, this is not the case when the mystery is the focus of the story. In those cases, even if you leave some smaller questions unanswered, by the time the story ends, you have to answer all the bigger ones. Imagine a Sherlock Holmes story, where you don't get to know who is the killer. Not very satisfactory, is it? This comic presented a lot of mysteries, and those are not the Stephen-King-monster kind of mysteries. These ARE focus-points for the story. The heroes of the story actively search the answers to them, and so far every half-answer raised new questions. Getting a clear picture of one of them, or maybe some of them, doesn't take away anything - this is the payoff. And the method used? Completely in line with what we saw before. And if we really entered the endgame... which I am not sure of, like... at all, but if we are, and we start getting bombarded with answers - even that could be fine too, if it is written in a logical way, which, looking at the comic so far, seeing how well planned it is, pretty much guaranteed. Even real-life can give us examples when the search of truth led to walls, no matter from which direction was the problem approached, but one tiny bit of information led to answer after answer after answer, so if there is nothing but answers for the next 200 pages, I'm fine with that too. (Of course, knowing Tom's storytelling, the chances for that are extremely low, one could say... near nothing.)
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Post by merry76 on Sept 7, 2020 11:30:17 GMT
I've got mixed feelings about this chapter and this page in general. We already saw this page from another perspective with the (beautifully done) symbolically giant TikTok leading Anja and Donny to the warehouse. There was a great sense of mystery and speculation to that page. Telling this side of that event, mobile phone controlled and all makes it almost banal. The old rule in storytelling is "show, don't tell", I feel that this is going the other way into "tell but also show everything in minute detail", and it loses something because of it. I'm getting a strong sense that this is an author who has entered into the endgame of a tale they've been telling for 15 years and has confused "I don't want things to end" with "answer things in a satisfactory fashion" and has begun to pad things out. Timetravel/Manipulation quickly turns stories to crap if the story isnt built around it in a clever way. Lets see what we get in the future, and hope this was cleverly thought through. Some things in the past where, some where not. I personally find the mobile app time time view jarring too, but it is Kat we are talking here. A Mobile Phone app is more or less her version of a crystal ball. What I dislike at this point is that she can steer the bird through time. Seeing what it sees is Ok, steering it is too much imo.
Also, I hope we dont get things overexplained. Jones for example. I dont want to find out why she is what she is. Its perfectly fine to have her be there without finding out that Antimony created her in a different timeline and then sent her here through the timestream via Kat or something. That would kind of ruin it for me.
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Post by blahzor on Sept 7, 2020 12:05:32 GMT
they lied to Kat saying she controls the time stream, they actually fixed the remote to control WHEN the tictoc goes based off what already happened and she only has control over where it moves in that time instead of also when in time it moves
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Sept 7, 2020 12:06:51 GMT
Having accomplished the primary mission of catching a falling Carver, why did the tocs then dump her in the river, I wonder? Wasn't there enough lift for a safe ground landing? Did Jeanne interfere? Were the Annies getting on Kat's nerves at the time? Did they tell her to? Anja is making her own Tic Toc encounter occur as she remembered it, I suspect your last guess may be true and the Annies will tell Kat to drop her in the water for no other reason than it happened before. |
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Post by blahzor on Sept 7, 2020 12:08:30 GMT
Having accomplished the primary mission of catching a falling Carver, why did the tocs then dump her in the river, I wonder? Wasn't there enough lift for a safe ground landing? Did Jeanne interfere? Were the Annies getting on Kat's nerves at the time? Did they tell her to? need her to lose the hair clip so she can be given it back later |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 7, 2020 14:23:35 GMT
I hope we dont get things overexplained. I've been reading Gunnerkrigg Court for a longish time and going by my experience I suspect we don't have to worry about that. If anything, I expect enigmatic reveals that raise three questions for every one they answer. As an aviation technician, I appreciate the artificial horizon on the remote, though. It's also shown banking right which is consistent with the viewpoint the rest of the page. Good stuff. |
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Post by pyradonis on Sept 7, 2020 14:54:37 GMT
Does anyone else find all of this super underwhelming? It only feels like that because we have to wait two or three days for every new page. That the Tic-Toc guiding young Anja and Donald to the warehouse was indeed controlled by Kat must necessarily be shown even if it was highly probable; because if it were not adressed, there would forever remain some doubt about it. When reading the story as a book, most readers will read this page once, think "oh yes, so that's crossed off the list" and read the next page, not staying long enough to find something underwhelming. |
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Post by warrl on Sept 7, 2020 16:15:55 GMT
I'm getting a strong sense that this is an author who has entered into the endgame of a tale they've been telling for 15 years and has confused "I don't want things to end" with "answer things in a satisfactory fashion" and has begun to pad things out. I might feel that way if we walk through every single known interaction between the tic-tocs and anyone else. So far we've established that the tic-tocs can find certain people, and then move under Kat's control. As we see Kat learn how to control the things in four dimensions. (Seriously, NO human has much experience at remote control in four dimensions. And I don't recall ever seeing Kat control, say, a toy drone, in three dimensions.) |
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Post by bedinsis on Sept 7, 2020 17:38:17 GMT
I await the chapter's conclusion before giving my judgment. There are however two things that currently feels underwhelming on my end.
The first is that since Kat has evidently guided the Tic-toc through the ages the mystery of the tic-toc is given an answer that makes the world smaller and less interesting.
The second is something that is the risk with time travel stories: it takes away the agency of the characters. In time-travel stories readers are encouraged to keep in mind what will happen and how that affect everything else. If the characters only do something because they know that it will happen then they are not acting according to their will and desires and the plot risks turning stiff and the characters unimportant. This is illustrated on this very page where Anja tells Kat what to do because she knows what happened.
It is of course possible that the chapter is meant to show all sorts of time travel scenarios and this one was only meant to show the stable time loop.
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Post by netherdan on Sept 7, 2020 18:19:27 GMT
Then Belldandy close in on Kat and whispers carefully - "Hey, be sure to not challenge your mom's memories and do everything as she says on this bit. If you create new memories it might start a feedback loop and her brain could get mushy from the sudden amount of new synapses... Now, I sure hope she's not trying to test what would happen if she lied though"
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Post by verrenox on Sept 7, 2020 19:02:54 GMT
As we see Kat learn how to control the things in four dimensions. (Seriously, NO human has much experience at remote control in four dimensions. And I don't recall ever seeing Kat control, say, a toy drone, in three dimensions.) She piloted the hovercraft when saving Annie from Jeanne. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Sept 7, 2020 22:05:23 GMT
As we see Kat learn how to control the things in four dimensions. (Seriously, NO human has much experience at remote control in four dimensions. And I don't recall ever seeing Kat control, say, a toy drone, in three dimensions.) She piloted the hovercraft when saving Annie from Jeanne. I've driven a car. I've never used my iPad to drive a car. EDIT: Kat is probably better at piloting a drone than I am. In any case, I've seen enough time travel paradox stories to know that if Young Anja doesn't find the workshop, or if Annie doesn't get dumped into the water, the consequences could be disastrous! "The destruction might in fact be very localized...." Great Scott. |
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Post by philman on Sept 8, 2020 8:11:33 GMT
I await the chapter's conclusion before giving my judgment. There are however two things that currently feels underwhelming on my end. The first is that since Kat has evidently guided the Tic-toc through the ages the mystery of the tic-toc is given an answer that makes the world smaller and less interesting. The second is something that is the risk with time travel stories: it takes away the agency of the characters. In time-travel stories readers are encouraged to keep in mind what will happen and how that affect everything else. If the characters only do something because they know that it will happen then they are not acting according to their will and desires and the plot risks turning stiff and the characters unimportant. This is illustrated on this very page where Anja tells Kat what to do because she knows what happened. It is of course possible that the chapter is meant to show all sorts of time travel scenarios and this one was only meant to show the stable time loop. I think you have to let them establish the rules before they start breaking them. Time travel has only just been introduced. I fully expect to see them do things that they already know have happened first, just to establish a baseline, and then start playing with it by either breaking something by trying to change something (already happened with 2 Annies??), or reveal something that puts everything else into a massively different light. |
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Post by fia on Sept 8, 2020 13:39:33 GMT
I expect that if time travel were possible, it would be as underwhelming as driving a car is for us. It becomes mechanical. But I wouldn't underestimate Tom. For every magical thing that starts to appear banal, (Basil, Mort, Snuffle*, etc) there are things that are presented as banal that are actually totally nuts (just about everything Donnie and Anja do, the Court growing bodies, people turning into birds, etc). Just go back to the chapter about the ROTD; it's full of Tom playing with the line between banality ('it's just a creep show', as Dracula says in "See Ya!") and total emotional devastation. Not every chapter has to be an action-adventure to be interesting.  So I'm fully strapped in and ready to be shocked by one of the pages coming up in an event that we somehow don't see coming even though we've been speculating about it intensely for years. |
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Post by ctso74 on Sept 8, 2020 19:31:59 GMT
All this directed action just makes me more curious, about what happened the first time. I fully expect to see them do things that they already know have happened first, just to establish a baseline, and then start playing with it by either breaking something by trying to change something (already happened with 2 Annies??), or reveal something that puts everything else into a massively different light. Break time and make Zimmy/Gamma?... Break time and make Boxbot! |
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Post by blahzor on Sept 8, 2020 23:21:22 GMT
I await the chapter's conclusion before giving my judgment. There are however two things that currently feels underwhelming on my end. The first is that since Kat has evidently guided the Tic-toc through the ages the mystery of the tic-toc is given an answer that makes the world smaller and less interesting. The second is something that is the risk with time travel stories: it takes away the agency of the characters. In time-travel stories readers are encouraged to keep in mind what will happen and how that affect everything else. If the characters only do something because they know that it will happen then they are not acting according to their will and desires and the plot risks turning stiff and the characters unimportant. This is illustrated on this very page where Anja tells Kat what to do because she knows what happened. It is of course possible that the chapter is meant to show all sorts of time travel scenarios and this one was only meant to show the stable time loop. while they are telling her what to do, she could choose not to do it. it would just not solve any problem she has so she doesn't. something already changed to begin with b/c Annie exist in that timeline |
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Post by Runningflame on Sept 8, 2020 23:52:00 GMT
I expect that if time travel were possible, it would be as underwhelming as driving a car is for us. It becomes mechanical. Seriously. If you stop and think about what driving actually entails, it's pretty incredible. How crazy it is that with a few twitches of our muscles, we can control huge hunks of metal barreling along several times faster than the fastest human can run--and that many of us do this every day without running into anything, including all the other humans doing the same thing all around us? |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Sept 9, 2020 0:23:27 GMT
... Not every chapter has to be an action-adventure to be interesting. So I'm fully strapped in and ready to be shocked by one of the pages coming up in an event that we somehow don't see coming even though we've been speculating about it intensely for years. All this directed action just makes me more curious, about what happened the first time. ... Kat and the Annies watching Annie die repeatedly, until they figure out how to loop the Tic Toc and get enough there to save Annie, should be adequately shocking. Maybe traumatic enough that Verdandi didn't want to shock them before it was necessary.
Is Tom setting us up for a punch right in the feels?
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Post by blahzor on Sept 9, 2020 1:49:46 GMT
there is just a single TicToc build currently and she only put one in, so this is probably not the instance she saves Annie or she has it travel though 6-9 timelines and leaves them there to then control them all to save Annie
we also don't know why it grew if it was to believe
or why the court doesn't care about them to at least assign someone to try and catch one when they would send Tony to the jungle to watch a snail event
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Post by netherdan on Sept 9, 2020 2:08:34 GMT
Kat and the Annies watching Annie die repeatedly, until they figure out how to loop the Tic Toc and get enough there to save Annie, should be adequately shocking. Maybe traumatic enough that Verdandi didn't want to shock them before it was necessary. Is Tom setting us up for a punch right in the feels?
Yes, I think that's what happens every "time" and not just the first. And Verdandi not telling them ahead is the appropriate answer to that. there is just a single TicToc build currently and she only put one in, so this is probably not the instance she saves Annie or she has it travel though 6-9 timelines and leaves them there to then control them all to save Annie we also don't know why it grew if it was to believe or why the court doesn't care about them to at least assign someone to try and catch one when they would send Tony to the jungle to watch a snail event Now you made me think, what if the Court was actually studying the Tic-Toc's appearances to a point it could track its time signature and predict its next move, but the bird appeared above them at the tree while Tony and Surma were at the ground level? They just didn't get the Z coordinate right! |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 9, 2020 3:10:57 GMT
The time-shenanigans explain why the Court hasn't been making a priority of hunting for 'Tocs. Every sighting, reputable as it may or may not be, is/was caused by a 'Toc that got dumped into the time-stream and popped up somewhere randomly, flew around briefly as Kat oriented herself to the time and place, and then popped away again. Between those brief manifestations it wouldn't matter how hard they searched and investigated, or who they questioned. They'd get nothing, over and over. Even if it was a priority at some point no matter what they did it would remain "mythical" like the Court's own answer to BigFoot. Besides, it's unlikely to be a surveillance drone from outside. The 'Toc seems to be Court tech so they'd figure it was someone's pet side-project, but if it somehow wasn't from the Court it would probably be an odd magic bird from the Wood trying to camouflage itself to fit in or something. Either way, they'd find it uninteresting from a scientific-advancement point of view.
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Post by stef1987 on Sept 9, 2020 19:40:57 GMT
Does anyone else find all of this super underwhelming? It only feels like that because we have to wait two or three days for every new page. No, that really isn't it |
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Post by pyradonis on Sept 10, 2020 11:03:32 GMT
It only feels like that because we have to wait two or three days for every new page. No, that really isn't it Well maybe I didn't understand what "all of this" encompassed in your question.
or why the court doesn't care about them to at least assign someone to try and catch one when they would send Tony to the jungle to watch a snail event Who says they didn't? Anja said "we've wanted to capture one of them for a long time." |
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Post by alevice on Sept 10, 2020 15:32:42 GMT
Tbh, the events that we know could be rather hinted that they happen as background dialogue and then we could get focus at probably some other character in the scene, like maybe Brinnie talking with someone.
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So I'm fully strapped in and ready to be shocked by one of the pages coming up in an event that we somehow don't see coming even though we've been speculating about it intensely for years.
