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Post by wies on Aug 14, 2020 7:04:34 GMT
Makes sense. The past is the one time you can have knowledge of, and the future is the time most unknown. So it fits the past is represented by the oldest, and the future by the youngest.
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 14, 2020 7:12:20 GMT
Am I the only one who's worried that Urd, who presents an image of someone who has lived a full life, looks perhaps 30-40 to Kat? Is that a sign that she won't live to see old age? Or, as imaginaryfriend's now-vanished post said, is it because that's teenage Kat's idea of how old "old" is?
I suppose I shouldn't worry. Just because Urd's past is behind her, that doesn't mean she's on the brink of death. Everyone's past is behind them (unless perhaps they're a Norn. Or a time traveler.)
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Post by Corvo on Aug 14, 2020 7:23:56 GMT
... I was thinking along the lines "if it 'already happened', then she has to be old, while the one who 'ought to be' is the young one", but maybe it's just my sleepless brain messing things up. ... Guess I was right after all. I'll just help myself to a cookie now. |
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Post by Eversist on Aug 14, 2020 7:28:36 GMT
Am I the only one who's worried that Urd, who presents an image of someone who has lived a full life, looks perhaps 30-40 to Kat? Is that a sign that she won't live to see old age? Or, as imaginaryfriend's now-vanished post said, is it because that's teenage Kat's idea of how old "old" is? Yes, I think someone else already made this observation/guess in a previous thread: the younger you are, what you think of as your future-self is bound to be younger than say, someone’s Kat’s mom’s age (likely 40s). It’s likely more of a perspective-relative thing rather than mortality-relative thing. Annie’s visual was similar. |
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Post by madjack on Aug 14, 2020 7:36:23 GMT
Am I the only one who's worried that Urd, who presents an image of someone who has lived a full life, looks perhaps 30-40 to Kat? Is that a sign that she won't live to see old age? Or, as imaginaryfriend's now-vanished post said, is it because that's teenage Kat's idea of how old "old" is? I think someone else already made this observation/guess in a previous thread: the younger you are, what you think of as your future-self is bound to be younger than say, someone’s Kat’s mom’s age (likely 40s). It’s likely more of a perspective-relative thing rather than mortality-relative thing. Annie’s visual was similar. Annie also has a far shorter lifespan than most though, so this is still probably up in the air. |
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
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Post by heranje on Aug 14, 2020 7:36:34 GMT
Am I the only one who's worried that Urd, who presents an image of someone who has lived a full life, looks perhaps 30-40 to Kat? Is that a sign that she won't live to see old age? Or, as imaginaryfriend's now-vanished post said, is it because that's teenage Kat's idea of how old "old" is? I feel like the idea that it depends on the perspective of the person is also supported by this page. Anja's Skuld looks much older than Annie's and Kat's, probably because Skuld takes on the appearance of what the person looking at her thinks of as their young self and someone who has their whole life ahead of them. To Anja, who is much older than the other two, that's someone who is what, 10 or a young teenager? To Annie and Kat, who are still teenagers themselves, that's a child. Similarly, it would make sense for Urd to take on the appearance of what the watcher imagines their "older self" would look like, a version of them who is mature and experienced. Teenagers typically don't spend a lot of time thinking about what they'll look like when they're elderly, but might imagine their adult self. To an adult, though, it would be an elderly version of themselves, something they might have already imagined and thought about a lot more (having just turned 30, I've personally really only just started thinking about what I'll look like when I'm "old"). |
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Post by csj on Aug 14, 2020 7:38:48 GMT
I think someone else already made this observation/guess in a previous thread: the younger you are, what you think of as your future-self is bound to be younger than say, someone’s Kat’s mom’s age (likely 40s). It’s likely more of a perspective-relative thing rather than mortality-relative thing. Annie’s visual was similar. , so this is still probably up in the air. only if she makes that choice |
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 14, 2020 8:33:34 GMT
Well, I hope I'll still look that good when I'll one day (hopefully) be able to claim having lived a full life.
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Post by wies on Aug 14, 2020 8:35:52 GMT
Annie also has a far shorter lifespan than most though, so this is still probably up in the air. only if she makes that choice The "when" here implies it is less of a choice and more a biological (or etherical?) imperative. |
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Post by blahzor on Aug 14, 2020 8:38:00 GMT
I think someone else already made this observation/guess in a previous thread: the younger you are, what you think of as your future-self is bound to be younger than say, someone’s Kat’s mom’s age (likely 40s). It’s likely more of a perspective-relative thing rather than mortality-relative thing. Annie’s visual was similar. Annie also has a far shorter lifespan than most though, so this is still probably up in the air. Annie's life expectancy is tied to her heterosexuality (and desire to procreate) and she's seem more asexual than anything even before knowing pregnancy leads to her early death |
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Post by madjack on Aug 14, 2020 8:50:41 GMT
Annie also has a far shorter lifespan than most though, so this is still probably up in the air. Annie's life expectancy is tied to her heterosexuality (and desire to procreate) and she's seem more asexual than anything even before knowing pregnancy leads to her early death Uhhh, yeah sexual orientation and desire to reproduce are not the same thing, lets not open that can of worms. |
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Post by merry76 on Aug 14, 2020 10:21:01 GMT
Has it established that Annie will share her mothers fate?
Afterall, she is half fire elemental. Her mother was a full one, right? So maybe having a half elemental is what burns you up and kills you?
Its just because otherwise, the race of fire elementals wouldnt exactly be sustainable, and dwindle rather quickly.
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Post by arkadi on Aug 14, 2020 10:39:41 GMT
OK, but I will protect little Skuld with my life.
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 14, 2020 11:21:08 GMT
Has it established that Annie will share her mothers fate? Afterall, she is half fire elemental. Her mother was a full one, right? So maybe having a half elemental is what burns you up and kills you? Its just because otherwise, the race of fire elementals wouldnt exactly be sustainable, and dwindle rather quickly. |
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Post by merry76 on Aug 14, 2020 12:09:37 GMT
Thanks! I should get around to re-read the entire comic sometimes soon.. I remembered faintly that her ancestry was discussed somewhere - but I would never be able to find it as quick as you did. Kudos 
But this also seems to reinforce that the fire part is getting smaller and smaller over the generations (genetic fluctuations may happen). To think that you come from a line of mothers that chose to die to have you... It could be some fridge horror. Or it could be weirdly comforting that your mother wanted you more than her own life. I guess your mileage may vary on this indeed. |
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Earin
Full Member
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Post by Earin on Aug 14, 2020 12:15:00 GMT
Has it established that Annie will share her mothers fate? Afterall, she is half fire elemental. Her mother was a full one, right? So maybe having a half elemental is what burns you up and kills you? Its just because otherwise, the race of fire elementals wouldnt exactly be sustainable, and dwindle rather quickly. Thorny question: what if multiplets? |
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Post by frogspawned on Aug 14, 2020 13:02:17 GMT
Brinnie did say twins was "Surprising" - but whether that's because twins in general are rare or because unusual magical shenanigans would be required to produce multiplets with The Fire is hard to say. |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 14, 2020 13:03:10 GMT
Has it established that Annie will share her mothers fate? Afterall, she is half fire elemental. Her mother was a full one, right? So maybe having a half elemental is what burns you up and kills you? Its just because otherwise, the race of fire elementals wouldnt exactly be sustainable, and dwindle rather quickly. The same will happen to Annie ... unless something changes. There's evidence that there's something different about Annie that wasn't true of her ancestors. Will Annie be the first one who finds a way around that fate? Or will something else (not necessarily good) happen to her? We obviously don't know. (On a possibly unrelated note, I don't know if I'm the only one, but this particular part of that conversation creeps me out far too much, especially Annie's words in the last frame. It's thick with foreshadowing -- as if Kat will be doing something horrible with the arrow someday, or somebody else will steal it from Kat and do something horrible with it, probably to Annie.) |
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Post by ctso74 on Aug 14, 2020 13:39:24 GMT
The same will happen to Annie ... unless something changes. There's evidence that there's something different about Annie that wasn't true of her ancestors. Will Annie be the first one who finds a way around that fate? Or will something else (not necessarily good) happen to her? We obviously don't know. The psychopomps may believe, that the difference between Annie and her ancestors is timing. Maybe, they really need Annie to be a psychopomp during this lifetime and place. Perhaps, to guide Robot to the other side? |
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Post by warrl on Aug 14, 2020 15:26:19 GMT
Has it established that Annie will share her mothers fate? Afterall, she is half fire elemental. Her mother was a full one, right? So maybe having a half elemental is what burns you up and kills you? Its just because otherwise, the race of fire elementals wouldnt exactly be sustainable, and dwindle rather quickly. No, Surma was not full fire elemental. She was a human/fire-elemental mix. The only pieces of evidence we have regarding how far back the line goes are (a) Coyote's statement that it was long ago, and (b) the fact that Surma's mother died while Surma was young. It is an apparent fact that (absent shenanigans such as what Coyote pulled on Annie) the line doesn't split - each incarnation has ONE child to be the next incarnation. Now what happens if Annie doesn't ever have kids? Does she get old and die? Does she join Jones as a person who eventually becomes conspicuous for not aging, and thus every few decades has to shed her identity, move, and build a new identity? (And how does that work in an era of good computerized record-keeping?) |
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Post by blahzor on Aug 14, 2020 17:27:08 GMT
Annie's life expectancy is tied to her heterosexuality (and desire to procreate) and she's seem more asexual than anything even before knowing pregnancy leads to her early death Uhhh, yeah sexual orientation and desire to reproduce are not the same thing, lets not open that can of worms. didn't say it was, which is why i separated it and put a "and" modifier |
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Post by blahzor on Aug 14, 2020 17:38:39 GMT
Thanks! I should get around to re-read the entire comic sometimes soon.. I remembered faintly that her ancestry was discussed somewhere - but I would never be able to find it as quick as you did. Kudos But this also seems to reinforce that the fire part is getting smaller and smaller over the generations (genetic fluctuations may happen). To think that you come from a line of mothers that chose to die to have you... It could be some fridge horror. Or it could be weirdly comforting that your mother wanted you more than her own life. I guess your mileage may vary on this indeed. from the way it's worded as we're shown it isn't that the fire elemental part is getting weaker is that no one controls all the powers with ease like a assumed full fire elemental would. Surma bad at fire, her grandmother is good with it, and Annie is good with it but doesn't really levitate like Surma |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 14, 2020 18:20:24 GMT
The same will happen to Annie ... unless something changes. There's evidence that there's something different about Annie that wasn't true of her ancestors. Will Annie be the first one who finds a way around that fate? Or will something else (not necessarily good) happen to her? We obviously don't know. The psychopomps may believe, that the difference between Annie and her ancestors is timing. Maybe, they really need Annie to be a psychopomp during this lifetime and place. Perhaps, to guide Robot to the other side? Or, considering that Kat is basically in the process of creating a new race of beings that has come into existence during Annie's lifetime, they will need Annie to become the psychopomp for all of the new former-robots-who-now-have-pseudo-organic-brains-and-bodies, whatever they end up being called. We're not sure what kind of lifespans they may have, but eventually some of them will die for one reason or another -- even if they're unaging and not subject to disease, probability demands that over a long enough period of time, some of them will be killed by accident or violence. It may be that the only thing unique about Annie is that she's the fire elemental descendant alive during this time. But if she becomes a psychopomp, she may well become unaging and therefore no longer subject to her ancestors' cycle of giving birth followed by early death. |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 14, 2020 18:27:11 GMT
No, Surma was not full fire elemental. She was a human/fire-elemental mix. The only pieces of evidence we have regarding how far back the line goes are (a) Coyote's statement that it was long ago, and (b) the fact that Surma's mother died while Surma was young. There's one more bit of evidence, which is the fact that Coyote doesn't know when it happened, which means that either it didn't happen in the Forest, or it happened before Coyote came to the Forest (which seems to have been right after the Court was founded), or both. I think that she grows old and dies, as normal, unless she has a child, but I have no evidence to back that up, so that's just speculation. Unless something else happens, and around here who knows? And given what Urd said today, the fact that we're seeing her as an adult Annie from Annie's point of view doesn't mean anything about Annie's future -- it just means that's how Annie imagines what an adult version of herself who has lived a full life would look like. So, no prognostication help there. |
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Post by sebastian on Aug 14, 2020 21:50:53 GMT
Am I the only one who's worried that Urd, who presents an image of someone who has lived a full life, looks perhaps 30-40 to Kat? Is that a sign that she won't live to see old age? Or, as imaginaryfriend's now-vanished post said, is it because that's teenage Kat's idea of how old "old" is? I suppose I shouldn't worry. Just because Urd's past is behind her, that doesn't mean she's on the brink of death. Everyone's past is behind them (unless perhaps they're a Norn. Or a time traveler.) For someone of Kath's age being old mean something like being 35 or so.  |
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Post by mglvna on Aug 15, 2020 0:32:54 GMT
All I can think about is how big the humanized-robot army must be now that the girls have spent so long talking about birds and time travel.
As for Annie, if I recall correctly Coyote once referred to "when" Annie has children, not if. And we know Coyote doesn't lie.
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Post by netherdan on Aug 15, 2020 2:35:47 GMT
only if she makes that choice The "when" here implies it is less of a choice and more a biological (or etherical?) imperative. - Maybe reproducing is the only way to keep the fire elemental spirit alive now that it's a human hybrid, so if she doesn't she'll grow old and die, taking the elemental with her back to the ether;
- Maybe that's what prompts the elemental spirit to change something in her human psyche to exhibit a desire to have a child, so she can delay her death one more generation;
- And maybe that's what the elemental thinks, because she doesn't have any precedent to one of her kind inhabiting a human candle. But what could actually happen is that when Annie dies, without passing on the flame, the elemental would emerge in a spontaneous combustion and have her own "Neither" moment
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Post by madjack on Aug 15, 2020 6:32:38 GMT
Uhhh, yeah sexual orientation and desire to reproduce are not the same thing, lets not open that can of worms. didn't say it was, which is why i separated it and put a "and" modifier Fair enough, but I still don't see how her sexual orientation factors into this, unless you mean accidental pregnancy? |
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Post by frogspawned on Aug 15, 2020 11:37:00 GMT
Sexual orientation feels quite relevant to reproduction, if we disregard the possibility of non-consent.
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Post by madjack on Aug 15, 2020 13:05:59 GMT
Sexual orientation feels quite relevant to reproduction, if we disregard the possibility of non-consent. I'm saying anyone who wants to have kids and has the capacity to do so will find a way is all. Aside, anyone trying anything non-consensual with Annie Carver is not going to make another mistake ever again. |
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