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Post by Druplesnubb on Jul 29, 2020 11:59:56 GMT
Ever since Ysengrin ate Coyote and turned into Loup people have been discussing whether this is the final book/the climax of the comic's storyline. My usual response to these suggestions has been that I can't accept that we're nearing the end when we still haven' seen Brinnie yet. There's been too much buildup around her character to not have her appear and be important in some capacity before things finally go down in the climax. So now that Brinnie's finally here, I just have to ask: are we quickly approaching the endgame now? I can currently see three endgame plots that are all reaching their tipping point, and when they do I see nowhere else for this comic to go but to its final act. The first of these, Robot's cult and Kat's deification, seems to have already reached that tipping point. The Robots are turning into flesh en masse and Kat is about to travel back in time and cement her status as a mythical being. The effects of this plotline's culmination have been immediate and drastic, with old plotlines like Brinnie and the Tik Toks that have been teased for over a decade finally coming back to the forefront and getting resolved. Yet I would still bet that this is the least significant of the three plots. The second of these plots is the lake water. Once Loup gets the lake water he will learn a secret plan from Coyote, that the latter has apparently had in mind for a really long time. This plan apparently involves Loup's death, yet Coyote believes that Loup will agree to it regardless. Literally every single detail that has been revealed to us of this plan says "big deal" in huge red letters. This plan alone could be story climax material for the entire comic, yet I still don't believe it to be the most significant of these plots. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if this "plan" is simply Coyote's response to the third plotline, which is the Court's rapidly approaching ultimate goal. This last one seems to have gone under the radar a bit, yet it's significance could easily eclipse the other two combined. This one was dropped on us very nonchalantly, which may have made people ignore the full implications. The big indication that we're reaching a turning point was when Zimmy revealed that the Court is done with its power stations. The big ether gathering project that's been going on throughout the entire comic is done. The ether was purified and transported through a series of stations deep into the Court, for God knows what purpose, and now they don't need any more. While we don't know what the ether was for, it was likely related to the Omega Device and "the program" that will take its subjects "far far away". Ever since the earliest stages of the comic, "what is the true purpose of Gunnerkrigg Court" has been a driving question. The biggst hint we have so far is that it's "man's endavour to become God", but exactly what that means is so far up to interpretation. And now it seems that that endeavour is about to enter its next stage, if not its final stage. The Court is preparing to hand over the lake water to Loup. The details of this handover are being hashed out right now in the comic while Kat and the Annies are dealing with Brinnie and the Tik Toks. As soon as that's done, Loup will have the lake water, and Coyote's plan will be revealed. After that the Court's ultimate goal will likely soon be brought to light as well. And all of this is going on while Robot and Kat are fulfilling their mind transference project. The three main factions, Gillitie Forest, Gunnerkrigg Court, and the Court robots all have their ultimate plans heading for their climax at the same time. Looking at the chapter count we are heading for the end of Book 8 very soon, meaning we're likely headed for a book-ending plot twist or cliffhanger in this chapter or the one directly afterwards. I believe that Book 9 or possibly Book 10 will be the last chapter of Gunnerkrigg Court, depending on how long it will take to sort out the fallout from all of this. |
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Post by madjack on Jul 29, 2020 12:10:47 GMT
No way it ends next book, can you see only 8 or so chapters being enough to tie everything off? All those plotlines will need so much care to wrap up while doing proper justice to them, plus there will be the few chapters needed to sort out the inevitable mess afterwards.
But yeah, it's definitely entering endgame time. The end of the current chapter will hopefully set things in motion.
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Post by Per on Jul 29, 2020 12:14:34 GMT
I demand three volumes' worth of slice-of-life chapters that advance the main plot in absolutely no way.
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Post by speedwell on Jul 29, 2020 15:10:54 GMT
At least I'll make Gunner before the apocalypse. Or Ragnarok, depending on your perspective  |
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Post by Gemminie on Jul 29, 2020 18:10:01 GMT
I don't see it ending that soon. The Court's "something big" may or may not be the "Omega Device," and it certainly has more than one project. My own speculation about the Court's "something big" is that it's been planning for a long time to really separate itself from the Forest and Coyote, so they no longer share a border of any sort. That could be anything from creating a new Seed Bismuth (or transplanting the old one -- who knows where it went) to another part of the world, to creating an alternate dimension and moving the Court there. Now that Loup has arisen, the Court probably moved the priority on that project up a few notches.
The closure of the ether station in the lake might just be because of Loup -- they shut down everything "in the area," but that doesn't mean everything. The ether station sent ethereal energy to other stations farther into the Court, and there's no word that they've shut down those other stations. They've just been pulling back from the Forest border.
Again in my estimation of things, which like anyone's can easily be wrong, Kat is already a robot deity. People's beliefs affect the Ether when they die and go into the Ether, but the Ether can affect the past (as in the myths about the creation of the stars), so it doesn't matter when it happens. But someday, who knows when, some of the androids (ascended robots) will die, and their beliefs about Kat will go into the Ether, affecting Kat in the past. It's interesting to see that the robots are quickly ascending, but the more interesting thing to me will be what they do next -- and what the Court does about them when it discovers that this has happened. They'll find out sooner or later. Eventually there will be deaths among their population, but when is unimportant, with the future affecting the past.
When will the Court decide to give Loup the lake water? When they're good and ready, I assume. My guess is that once Loup has it, the Court no longer has leverage over him, and the Court knows this, so they're probably not going to give it to him until they've got some form of defense or retaliation ready for what he does once he no longer needs them. They might even try to bargain for some kind of concession from Loup in exchange for the lake water. I don't know whether the Annies told the Court about the "and then you will die" part of what Coyote said to Loup, but even if they did, I doubt that's much comfort. Coyote didn't say how long after he learned about the plan Loup would die, nor by whose hand he would die, nor in what sense he would die. Maybe he'll just get split back into Coyote and Ysengrin (though I doubt it'll be that simple). Anyway, I think that Loup finding out about the plan is only the next step in the plan. Coyote only knows how many more steps there are.
In short, I think we're about right in the middle of the story. Big changes have happened, and more are about to happen, but I don't see an ending for quite some time. I can be wrong, of course.
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Post by wies on Jul 29, 2020 18:41:37 GMT
You make great points, Druplesnubb , and it is true those are the three most important storylines each reaching pivotal moments now. I was skeptical of whether we were in GKC's endgame, but I am now more inclined to think that. But there is also the chance that those moments may lead to new storylines. We shall see. One thing I am certain of and betting on it: the page we know, with a certain degree of certainty, just what the Court is, would be the clearest signal possible for endgame times. |
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Post by iconocat on Jul 29, 2020 19:49:48 GMT
I think we have two more volumes left in the story. That would be around another 20 chapters, which seems like enough to tie up unresolved threads, and it would bring us to an even 10 books.
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Post by wies on Jul 29, 2020 20:00:09 GMT
I am not even of the ones who read GKC from the earliest years, but I am going to feel so weird when it ends. GKC feels such a sprawling world to me and makes me feel like there are countless more interesting characters and corners in the background somewhere, unseen to us because it would be too much otherwise. I can't even really conceive of it ending, though I know it must.
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 30, 2020 18:11:27 GMT
My usual response to these suggestions has been that I can't accept that we're nearing the end when we still haven' seen Brinnie yet. Dude, you were one of the people asking if we were on the final volume three and a half years ago.  |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Jul 30, 2020 22:10:32 GMT
That was more due to meta reasoning than what was happening in the story, and I explicitly brought up the idea of the last volume being much longer than normal.
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 30, 2020 22:57:04 GMT
Anyway, I agree with madjack and Gemminie . What you named in the OP alone is simply too much to wrap it up in just one more book, and there are dozens of other plot threads equally demanding their resolve.
See this post for a list we quickly compiled in January. I admit several of the biggest points on this list could be solved next book - or they could just be advanced. Who knows how long the Court takes for the next stage of whatever it is planning. Who knows what the Norns will tell Kat when she asks them how to send a Tic-toc back in time - it might so complicated to alone take up most of the next book. Who knows which mayhem may break out when the Court finds out about the androids being produced on it's grounds (Also don't forget that most robots cannot be turned into androids because they are still keeping the shield up - Kat couldn't even transform those. And who programmed the shield anyway?). Don't even get me started on that no one seems to have any idea what to do about the double Annies. As you yourself said, some things have taken ten years to come back into the story, even though back then there were characters in-story with a definite interest in resolving those questions. Also, the list is not all-encompassing. For example - we didn't even think of Brinnie back then, and lo' and behold, here she is. |
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Post by bedinsis on Jul 31, 2020 15:25:44 GMT
Good point about the court dropping their power station experiments.
Although... if the purpose of the Court is to become god and the Court now has access to a god in liquid form maybe they have changed their focus to experiment on this new fascinating material?
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Post by todd on Aug 1, 2020 0:17:40 GMT
if the purpose of the Court is to become god and the Court now has access to a god in liquid form maybe they have changed their focus to experiment on this new fascinating material? Once again - does the Court see its purpose as being to become God? Or is that Coyote's perspective (assisted by a desire to manipulate Annie's perception of the Court), based on what he knows about the ether and the Court presumably doesn't? |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 1, 2020 0:57:51 GMT
if the purpose of the Court is to become god and the Court now has access to a god in liquid form maybe they have changed their focus to experiment on this new fascinating material? Once again - does the Court see its purpose as being to become God? Or is that Coyote's perspective (assisted by a desire to manipulate Annie's perception of the Court), based on what he knows about the ether and the Court presumably doesn't? Why see them as two opposing things? Think about what Coyote thinks a god is. He believes he himself is potentially the product of nothing more than a single desperate man's fevered imagination. In his shoes (paws?), I'd be tempted to think of people who use their imaginations creatively - particularly those who do so using technology together with the ether - as godmakers. Coyote was not being cryptic at all. He was expressing his deepest fear as candidly as a laugh. |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 1, 2020 7:52:12 GMT
Good point about the court dropping their power station experiments. Except they haven't. They've closed down one power station out of a network of them, presumably because that one's too close to the Forest and susceptible to attack by Loup. I agree that it would seem strange for the Court not to experiment on or at least analyze the lake water while they have it. Not to do so would seem very unlike them. |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 1, 2020 8:03:49 GMT
if the purpose of the Court is to become god and the Court now has access to a god in liquid form maybe they have changed their focus to experiment on this new fascinating material? Once again - does the Court see its purpose as being to become God? Or is that Coyote's perspective (assisted by a desire to manipulate Annie's perception of the Court), based on what he knows about the ether and the Court presumably doesn't? I doubt that what Coyote says is the purpose of the Court is what the Court believes its purpose is. It's always seemed to me that the Court's purpose is to further technology -- both conventional and etheric. Humans like to build tools in order to exert more control over their environment, and that's pretty much the definition of technology. Poetically speaking, I suppose technology is Man's endeavor to become God, because what if technology reached its ultimate level of expression? Suppose medical science and technology made humans immortal and invulnerable to disease and injury? What if manufacturing technology could instantly create anything humans could imagine? So maybe the Court wouldn't put it that way, but in a way Coyote's right. |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 1, 2020 10:34:14 GMT
Once again - does the Court see its purpose as being to become God? Or is that Coyote's perspective (assisted by a desire to manipulate Annie's perception of the Court), based on what he knows about the ether and the Court presumably doesn't? I doubt that what Coyote says is the purpose of the Court is what the Court believes its purpose is. It's always seemed to me that the Court's purpose is to further technology -- both conventional and etheric. Humans like to build tools in order to exert more control over their environment, and that's pretty much the definition of technology. Poetically speaking, I suppose technology is Man's endeavor to become God, because what if technology reached its ultimate level of expression? Suppose medical science and technology made humans immortal and invulnerable to disease and injury? What if manufacturing technology could instantly create anything humans could imagine? So maybe the Court wouldn't put it that way, but in a way Coyote's right. Sprinkle what you just said with three or four mentions of "...in the ether..." and you basically have explained what I meant just above, heh. |
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Post by todd on Aug 1, 2020 13:49:19 GMT
Does the Court know what effects manipulating the ether could have? Remember, our information about it comes from Coyote's secret, which, because he's a secret, he can't have shared with very many people (as far as we know, only Annie and Ysengrin). The Court might have worked it out some other way, but we have no evidence of that as yet. At present, it seems likely that the Court see the ether only as a strange phenomenon that they want to understand (especially since they're not satisfied with answers of "It just is"), and may be unaware of the full consequences of their experiments.
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Post by wies on Aug 1, 2020 18:25:35 GMT
Does the Court know what effects manipulating the ether could have? Remember, our information about it comes from Coyote's secret, which, because he's a secret, he can't have shared with very many people (as far as we know, only Annie and Ysengrin). The Court might have worked it out some other way, but we have no evidence of that as yet. At present, it seems likely that the Court see the ether only as a strange phenomenon that they want to understand (especially since they're not satisfied with answers of "It just is"), and may be unaware of the full consequences of their experiments. Maybe. Tony's actions would be a good exemplification of that. |
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Post by philman on Aug 1, 2020 21:39:41 GMT
One thing I am certain of and betting on it: the page we know, with a certain degree of certainty, just what the Court is, would be the clearest signal possible for endgame times. I'm not sure if we'll know that, or what the seed bismuth is, until the final chapter, if we ever do. This definitely feels like the endgame to me, but it could still be a long endgame. I'd estimate we're at least 2/3 of the way through, at this point it feels like the final film of a trilogy. I always lose track of the books and how far through them we are, but others have said this is supposed to be the final chapter of one of them? If so then I think it feels like we have at least 2 books left. One for the pieces to move into position and for Kat to finally realise her true power, and one for the endgame between the court and the forest/Loup to finally play out |
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Post by wies on Aug 2, 2020 12:27:58 GMT
One thing I am certain of and betting on it: the page we know, with a certain degree of certainty, just what the Court is, would be the clearest signal possible for endgame times. I'm not sure if we'll know that, or what the seed bismuth is, until the final chapter, if we ever do. I think there could be a whole book to deal with those pieces of knowledge. |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 3, 2020 20:08:18 GMT
I think the Seed Bismuth is poetry, in the same sense that the Primordial Egg isn't the thing that preceded the chicken or the Big Bang didn't take place in a swinger's club.
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Post by blahzor on Aug 3, 2020 22:12:39 GMT
i'd doubt the comic ends within the next 2 years
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Post by verrenox on Aug 8, 2020 1:28:49 GMT
Once again - does the Court see its purpose as being to become God? Or is that Coyote's perspective (assisted by a desire to manipulate Annie's perception of the Court), based on what he knows about the ether and the Court presumably doesn't? Why see them as two opposing things? Think about what Coyote thinks a god is. He believes he himself is potentially the product of nothing more than a single desperate man's fevered imagination. In his shoes (paws?), I'd be tempted to think of people who use their imaginations creatively - particularly those who do so using technology together with the ether - as godmakers. Coyote was not being cryptic at all. He was expressing his deepest fear as candidly as a laugh. Ooh I like this train of thought. Coyote says that he is a god because of a long standing belief by humanity. It's interesting as well to think about what Coyote views as "The Court". Does he mean the collective, the founders, or a particular member? It could be that to Coyote's perspective, the Court becoming God could simply mean the institution making strides in technology that cement its name in history. |
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Post by blahzor on Aug 8, 2020 21:40:42 GMT
Kat was already a mystical being once she read some of the robot code, got to her blinker stone phase. Then got to her being pulled from being attached to her body phase once she made the arm for Robot and attached it to him. she's now out pacing Annie in development and going to go SSJ3 Fire elemental
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 18, 2020 6:28:16 GMT
I am honestly not sure. The stakes do seem to be climbing rapidly, but predicting a climax might be premature. There are a lot of loose ends still to be tied up. We still don't know what the Court's secret project is, we still don't know what Jones is, etc.
Also Tom has developed this comic into a huge success, both in terms of financials and in terms of critical acclaim. It's a bloody good strip. I think he has a lot of incentive to keep it going, and I'm all for that. As satisfying as it would be to see the endgame, I'm in no hurry. The end of Gunnerkrigg Court would be like the death of a dear friend.
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Post by jda on Aug 19, 2020 3:04:27 GMT
I am honestly not sure. The stakes do seem to be climbing rapidly, but predicting a climax might be premature. There are a lot of loose ends still to be tied up. We still don't know what the Court's secret project is, we still don't know what Jones is, etc. Also Tom has developed this comic into a huge success, both in terms of financials and in terms of critical acclaim. It's a bloody good strip. I think he has a lot of incentive to keep it going, and I'm all for that. As satisfying as it would be to see the endgame, I'm in no hurry. The end of Gunnerkrigg Court would be like the death of a dear friend I am all about knowing and solving the Chekhov's full armory still on play, but also'd like for it to grow and develop naturally. One thing I hate from my guts is how on Pilot episodes the writers cram half the lore of the book series, and how the strands and arcs keep unsolved till the very last half hour of the Ending episode. |
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