[2307] "Kat, you've helped me too!"

[imaginaryfriend]

D'aww.

[philman]

"But neither of you are the real Annie, I don't want to just help you two, I want to help the real Annie as well!"

[Igniz]

That's why she hates doing what she's about to do. Or already did.

[madjack]

I don't think I've ever been as happy to be wrong about what was going to go down in a given chapter more than this one but this'll be one of those ones that are hard to get through.

[imaginaryfriend]

May 20, 2020 7:10:34 GMT philman said:

"But neither of you are the real Annie, I don't want to just help you two, I want to help the real Annie as well!"

I was thinking more like, "But neither of you are the real Annie and it really sucks but you both will probably have to cease to exist so that I can get her back."

 alternatively "This will hurt me a lot more than it will you." "Because I'll sedate you before the procedure."

Before we move on to mad science and all it entails let's take a moment to appreciate the Antimonies who are themselves taking a moment to appreciate someone who makes a positive contribution to their life.

[gpvos]

Annie be like: the more the merrier!

[arkadi]

Kat continues to be weak against Annie types.

[arf]

How does Kat get her Annie back, while removing these Annies, who are also Annies? How does Kat reconcile that paradox?

*She must! But she cannot!*

[wies]

"Oh no! I used kind words! But it seemed to have made matters worse! There is nothing in the social etiquette on this!"
Or: "Local scientist ruined by feelings"

But yeaah, looks like Kat needed to hear this. She has been in so much agony doubting how real they are and where the real annie is, and to hear such kinds words that sure seem something the real annie would have said, it must be a lot to bear at once.

[rafk]

Yeah, I can't help but feel this is just making Kat feel more terrible about her secret conclusion that one or both Annies are not real and need to go for some reason (or else will automatically go if they get rid of Loup and restore Coyote and Ysengrim).

[Futurismo]

I think that Kat has been trying to tell herself that these Annie's aren't "her" Annie and they have a Kat in their own timeline that definitely misses them so it's only right that she send them back... but they're still Annie and saying goodbye is hard!!

Even if she tries to put them each in their category, Annie A, Annie B and Annie C, they all still fall under "my best friend forever who I want back but also can't send away but the other me's must feel like this too, uuuuAAAGGHHH!" Obviously, Kat is going to have to build a trans-temporal network so that she can Skype with the other Annie's across timelines and visit each other; heck, they could have a Council of Kat Donlan to really speed up work on their projects. Mad science knows no limits!

[mordekai]

Yep. Kat has totally done something that makes her feel a lot of guilt...

[crater]

part of the reason read gunnerkrigg is because these sort of things are always subverted. But Kat looks like she is saying her last words to an old dog she is about to put down.

[netherdan]

May 20, 2020 11:12:34 GMT Futurismo said:

Obviously, Kat is going to have to build a trans-temporal network so that she can Skype with the other Annie's across timelines and visit each other; heck, they could have a Council of Kat Donlan to really speed up work on their projects. Mad science knows no limits!

Maybe that's what the Tic Tocs are and she's already in contact with other Kats

[ctso74]

"That's what she'd be saying to me... if she were here..."
I really hope we're all wrong about this, but I keep waiting for the drop.

[gpvos]

The way Tom is building up to something makes me think it's going to be *really* bad.

[saardvark]

May 20, 2020 7:54:21 GMT arf said:

How does Kat get her Annie back, while removing these Annies, who are also Annies? How does Kat reconcile that paradox?

*She must! But she cannot!*

In fact, it remains possible that one of these Annies *is* the real Annie, just time shifted (and hence "not supposed to be here" ...  means at this time at her current age, rather than
"not supposed to be here"  in this space/universe.  The Arbitrator would have been referring to that Annie - likely Forest Annie - in 4-space, rather than 3-space.). 

Kat does not seem to think this is the case though.  But what a potential tragedy if it is true, and Kat does something rather final to these Annies, returning them to where she thinks they belong, when one of them really is her Annie!
(Probably too dark for GCK, tho...)

[bicarbonat]

May 20, 2020 13:03:52 GMT netherdan said:

May 20, 2020 11:12:34 GMT Futurismo said:

Obviously, Kat is going to have to build a trans-temporal network so that she can Skype with the other Annie's across timelines and visit each other; heck, they could have a Council of Kat Donlan to really speed up work on their projects. Mad science knows no limits!

Maybe that's what the Tic Tocs are and she's already in contact with other Kats

A future/"playing outside of linear time" version of Kat who has fully integrated with her etheric self and created the TicTocs would work well under the robot/bird/wing motif that has followed her since the very beginning: Alistair, her future god avatar + being called an "angel", City Face and the epiphany therein.

Though I imagine if she reached the point, she would be very removed from the Kat that we've known. And if ever there was a tipping point, I think this time period is it. Like I said in another post, apotheosis requires you to leave things (and people) behind.

[Corvo]

The last couple pages seem off somehow. The way I read it:
2303:
Annies: "Kat, we're worried you're not well."
2304:
Kat: "I'm not well because of your situation!"
2305:
Annies: "But our situation is not a big deal."
Kat: "It's a HUGE deal!"
2306:
Kat: "I'm so grateful you've showed me "impossible" things are possible.
2307:
Annies: "You've helped everyone so much, Kat! You are awesome!"

So, why doesn't Kat "buy it"? Seems like she went completely off-topic there, maybe preparing for a "buuut..." that never came?

[jda]

Kat: (sobbing) Robbie! I can't stand it any longer! Initialize the sequence!
Annies: What? Kat, what are you--- (vanishing Thanos-like)

[mordekai]

May 20, 2020 13:28:25 GMT saardvark said:

May 20, 2020 7:54:21 GMT arf said:

How does Kat get her Annie back, while removing these Annies, who are also Annies? How does Kat reconcile that paradox?

*She must! But she cannot!*

In fact, it remains possible that one of these Annies *is* the real Annie, just time shifted (and hence "not supposed to be here" ...  means at this time at her current age, rather than
"not supposed to be here"  in this space/universe.  The Arbitrator would have been referring to that Annie - likely Forest Annie - in 4-space, rather than 3-space.). 

Kat does not seem to think this is the case though.  But what a potential tragedy if it is true, and Kat does something rather final to these Annies, returning them to where she thinks they belong, when one of them really is her Annie!
(Probably too dark for GCK, tho...)

I think it is likely that one of the Annies always was dimensionally-displaced... maybe because of something Tony did, maybe because of something Coyote did, maybe because of something the Psychopomps did...

It could be that Annie died when he fell into the ravine and Coyote, upon learning about it (they found their cardigan, they would have found her body too...) and Coyote changed the past so she survived...

Also, I suspect Kat is gong to do something that isn't just going to estrange the Annies from her, it is going to arouse the wrath of the Arbiter Saslamel AND the Court AND Loup...

[mturtle7]

Relentless positivity from your friends & loved ones after weeks (months?) of being stuck inside your own head can feel terrible sometimes.

[aline]

May 20, 2020 14:39:24 GMT Corvo said:

The last couple pages seem off somehow. The way I read it:
2303:
Annies: "Kat, we're worried you're not well."
2304:
Kat: "I'm not well because of your situation!"
2305:
Annies: "But our situation is not a big deal."
Kat: "It's a HUGE deal!"
2306:
Kat: "I'm so grateful you've showed me "impossible" things are possible.
2307:
Annies: "You've helped everyone so much, Kat! You are awesome!"

So, why doesn't Kat "buy it"? Seems like she went completely off-topic there, maybe preparing for a "buuut..." that never came?

I think it's worth rereading the whole conversation between Annies and Zimmy: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2260

All of it is foreshadowing for what is happening right now.

Especially this page: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2265

The "but", I think, is this: She's like someone who was starting to get used to go into the pool and thought "oh, ok, this is weird but somehow I can stay afloat". But then, the ocean showed up. Whith friggin' whales and everything.

Kat is becoming something in the ether, but she's been oblivious to that so far. Now she's starting to see more stuff. Because of all the things she did for Annie, she started doing and understanding more, but she was kind of oblivious about the implications. I remember that invention of hers at the science fair ( www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=70 ):
Kat: "So, to take a better look at those crystals, I put them in anti-grav unit..."
Everyone: "YOU DESIGNED AN ANTI-GRAV UNIT?"
Kat: "Huh, sure, but whatever. The crystals..." 
Everyone: "BUT FLYING CARS! FLYING EVERYTHING!"
Kat: "Whatever, I just needed it for those crystals."
Annie *falls down a bridge*
Kat: "Ok, ok, I'll make that flying car"

It's the same with the robots. She is completely oblivious to the implications of what she's doing. The magnitude of creating a new species is flying right past her. She's just helping out some friends, whatever.

Now I think, with what has happened to Annie, with the implications of what it means to just create alternate timelines, she is starting to understand something new and finally the implications are freaking her out.
And when it stops freaking her out long enough for her to actually "get it", as Zimmy puts it, then she might well finally become an actual god. This girl will be capable of shaping reality.

Annie fell down a bridge again, and Kat, in order to help her out, is going to have to warp the entire damn space-time continuum.

[jda]

May 20, 2020 15:19:30 GMT aline said:

May 20, 2020 14:39:24 GMT Corvo said:

Kat: "So, to take a better look at those crystals, I put them in anti-grav unit..."
Everyone: "YOU DESIGNED AN ANTI-GRAV UNIT?"
Kat: "Huh, sure, but whatever. The crystals..." 
Everyone: "BUT FLYING CARS! FLYING EVERYTHING!"
Kat: "Whatever, I just needed it for those crystals."
Annie *falls down a bridge*
Kat: "Ok, ok, I'll make that flying car"

Haha, that dialog made me laugh. Yes, I don't recall if there is a trope about scientist's tunnel vision, but I think that would apply.  

[Gemini Jim]

Uh oh. Those are not tears of joy for Kat.





*looks up* Man, I don't know how that other shoe stays up there. It's just hovering above the comic.

[Polyhymnia]

I feel like we’re getting slightly wildspec-y in here—Kat’s more stressed than we’ve ever seen her, is doing the most subversive and therefore dangerous thing she’s ever done, and is burning bridges because of her stress. She’s utterly out of control, as her whole world (the court, concepts of science, her best friend) has been rocked by deities that shouldn’t exist, and lives around a constant reminder of her powerlessness. It’s essentially a faith crisis, and she’s burying her feelings about it in her work and fighting to press down the implications of where she fits into all of it since she can’t process something that big.

Then the Annies come along, more perceptive than usual, and essentially tell her that she’s snapping and they’re worried about her, but that reads as “you need to process your feelings instead of burying them.” She’s been focusing on a problem (how the Annies work) to try and work through one bit of the crisis without having to deal with all of it. The declaration of love from one of the sources of crisis doesn’t help. They tell you you’re worth it, but you just want to cry and cut back about the actual problem that they don’t seem to be experiencing, while blocking out the rest of the implications behind it, and they’re just saying don’t worry about that and just go back to your normal self (something that you feel too exhausted and confused to mimic). The fact that they don’t seem to see the problem and want you to feel better, when from your perspective you clearly need to solve the problem in order to feel better, makes you want to cry in frustration and vulnerability and loneliness, because nobody else seems to realize the enormity of the problem at hand.

[migrantworker]

May 20, 2020 17:11:58 GMT Polyhymnia said:

I feel like we’re getting slightly wildspec-y in here—Kat’s more stressed than we’ve ever seen her, is doing the most subversive and therefore dangerous thing she’s ever done, and is burning bridges because of her stress. She’s utterly out of control, as her whole world (the court, concepts of science, her best friend) has been rocked by deities that shouldn’t exist, and lives around a constant reminder of her powerlessness. It’s essentially a faith crisis, and she’s burying her feelings about it in her work and fighting to press down the implications of where she fits into all of it since she can’t process something that big.

Then the Annies come along, more perceptive than usual, and essentially tell her that she’s snapping and they’re worried about her, but that reads as “you need to process your feelings instead of burying them.” She’s been focusing on a problem (how the Annies work) to try and work through one bit of the crisis without having to deal with all of it. The declaration of love from one of the sources of crisis doesn’t help. They tell you you’re worth it, but you just want to cry and cut back about the actual problem that they don’t seem to be experiencing, while blocking out the rest of the implications behind it, and they’re just saying don’t worry about that and just go back to your normal self (something that you feel too exhausted and confused to mimic). The fact that they don’t seem to see the problem and want you to feel better, when from your perspective you clearly need to solve the problem in order to feel better, makes you want to cry in frustration and vulnerability and loneliness, because nobody else seems to realize the enormity of the problem at hand.

So essentially, Kat is having a breakdown over all the contradictions she is witnessing?

Hmm, that's actually quite an optimistic scenario. Annies wouldn't necessarily need to do anything to help her through, except provide a shoulder to cry on. And that would be a much more positive resolution, compared to other speculations higher up in the thread.

[pyradonis]

So.
Perhaps we can find some information on this Steadman person.

[pyradonis]

Seriously though, why is it so hard to believe that Kat is just crying because she is touched by what the Annies said?

[wies]

Because this is gunnerkrigg court where things often take an unexpected turn and people love to speculate?

Though to be fair, I think everyone is in agreement that what the Annies said elicted this reaction, but most think instead of it being the sole reason, it is just one thing in the mixture of the emotions Kat is feeling right now.