|
Post by Eversist on Feb 29, 2020 2:44:21 GMT
I was reminded of the Italian renaissance painting "The Birth of Venus" by Sandro Botticelli, but mostly due to the hair.
|
|
|
Post by Runningflame on Feb 29, 2020 4:04:13 GMT
My brain is definitely suggesting "Greek goddess," but it hasn't come up with anything more specific yet.
Has there been a discussion here about the robots' concept of "angels" and where they might have gotten the idea? The whole thing seems odd to me. I think it's first introduced after Annie rescues Robot's CPU and Kat plugs him into the docking station. Robot sees Kat and says, " Am... am I in heaven?! I see an angel before me!" It's not clear whether he believes he's died and therefore must be in heaven and therefore Kat must be an angel, OR whether he believes Kat is an angel and therefore he must be in heaven and therefore he must be dead. In other words, is his conclusion that Kat is an angel a result of his belief that he's dead? Or does he believe Kat is an angel just from seeing her, and the belief that he's dead is a deduction from the fact that he's in the presence of an angel? And in either case, what is the robots' definition of "angel"? On the one hand, it can't just be a beautiful female; Robot saw Jeanne's picture and called her " a beautiful lady," not an angel. The common theory is that the robots see Kat differently--they see something about her nature which is also reflected in how Zimmy sees her, though with vastly different reactions. But then again, I don't see much evidence for this in the comic; in fact, when robots identify someone as an angel, they get all stammery and the panels seem to indicate they are focusing on the "angel's" beautiful human physical appearance (besides today's page and the original "angel" page, see also Sky Watcher's reaction). So... huh. What is it about Kat and Blonde Lady on Rock that makes robots immediately peg them as angels, while other beautiful women are just beautiful women? Then, too, where would the robots have gotten a belief in angels and heaven, especially if (as per Chrysoprax, if I recall correctly) most residents of the Court are not religious? Renard says "What the devil" sometimes, but otherwise I don't recall anyone in the Court using that kind of Judeo-Christian terminology. And what makes the robots think that they would go to heaven when they die? The big debate about heaven when I was growing up was whether animals go there--I don't think anybody would have included robots. Also, the old golem that Kat brought back doesn't say anything about a robot afterlife--to him, death is a cessation of action, plain and simple. How widespread is this belief in angels among the robots? Is it a concept they all are familiar with, even if some may be skeptical? (Notice that Sky Watcher doesn't ask, "What is an angel?" He says, "Don't be ridiculous," like someone who knows what the word means but doesn't believe there is any such thing.) If robots believe in angels and heaven, do they believe in a God?
|
|
|
Post by wies on Feb 29, 2020 6:32:29 GMT
Yeah, the angel remark at first seemed like a 'joke' but it has taken on quite the importance. I think we will get somewhere in the comic later an exploration for why Robot saw Kat as an angel, or of their concept of that, anyway.
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 29, 2020 6:49:44 GMT
The forum has beaten all dead horses into purée then beaten said purée into the ground. Only then does it fall silent on a topic relevant to the comic, until someone brings it up again. My speculation on why the robots believe in angels is/was that it's because the current robots were designed and built by the original robots and that the original robots had, either intentionally or by design (and either for innate reasons or through long-term obedience to, exposure to and reworking by Diego) copies of Diego's mind. Diego thought of the original robots as his children and the original robots thought of the newer robots as their children. I think the easiest way for Diego to create the old robots would be to directly dub his own mind using etheric means, but even if he hyper-coded everything from scratch he would have been his own primary model. He could borrow classical logic and mathmatics but the heuristics would be of his own design (unless there were contemporary robot/golem builders that we don't know about) so some cognitive biases have been carried over subtly, and in the case of Jeanne (something he dwelt on) blatantly. When confronted by Jeanne in some way the way they say "she died and we did nothing" is nearly a challenge/response. I think this suggests dubbing at least in the first robots; later generations might be borrowing chunks of hyper-code that amounts to (or nearly to) the same thing. [edit] I should have added for clarity that whatever Diego thought about angels he understood the concept and since the robots have a little Diego in them the concept was carried over and (in later robots) amplified, possibly as an example of myth-adaption.[/edit] ...And if that is the case then in a weird way the transfiguration of the robots (especially the involvement of Juliette and Art) is a redemption of Diego. We may get some clues in the near-ish future from how the old robots behave (assuming they aren't puppets) about how much of Diego is in them.
|
|
|
Post by Igniz on Feb 29, 2020 7:38:31 GMT
- An angel! - No, I am not. I am a daemon. - Oh. I sea.
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Feb 29, 2020 12:45:40 GMT
Then, too, where would the robots have gotten a belief in angels and heaven, especially if (as per Chrysoprax, if I recall correctly) most residents of the Court are not religious? Renard says "What the devil" sometimes, but otherwise I don't recall anyone in the Court using that kind of Judeo-Christian terminology. Robot's original model series is a " Seraph".
|
|
|
Post by Runningflame on Feb 29, 2020 15:30:00 GMT
Then, too, where would the robots have gotten a belief in angels and heaven, especially if (as per Chrysoprax, if I recall correctly) most residents of the Court are not religious? Renard says "What the devil" sometimes, but otherwise I don't recall anyone in the Court using that kind of Judeo-Christian terminology. Robot's original model series is a " Seraph". True, that does indicate that whoever named them (probably Diego) was familiar with Judeo-Christian terminology. Although, given that biblical seraphim are said to have six wings, it's an odd name for a robot that only has two. (And I don't think any robot has ever called another robot an angel, S-model or not.)
|
|
|
Post by fia on Feb 29, 2020 22:10:43 GMT
I waited a day and no one else did the speculative image-search? WELL OKAY THEN I WILL DO IT (I am joking, I wasn't waiting, and I would have done this anyway) There are definitely pre-Raphaelite vibes to this lady on the rock, especially Rossetti vibes. He liked models with curly red or copper hair and green eyes, particularly his talented and ultimately tragic wife. I also like the match with this painting by Edmund Blair Leighton, and some paintings by John William Waterhouse, including Miranda and The Lady of Shallott (who may, by her association with Elaine of Astolat, in fact be a better model for Jeanne). It also reminded me a little of the angel in Da Vinci's Virgin of the Rocks (...in our case, on the rock?). Most likely it's a generic Renaissance-style or Pre-Raphaelite style, romanticized or idealized lady, as opposed to any specific lady from any specific time.
|
|
|
Post by csj on Mar 2, 2020 8:06:44 GMT
it feels robotic due to how logical its response is. Also, the face almost looks made of porcelain, as of a doll. Sounds robotic to me! Or at least... nier enough.
|
|