[2253] Well that don't sound fair.

[netherdan]

Gamma got tall! Also, she learned to sleepwalk to keep up with Zimmy! Nice job Gamma!

[migrantworker]

Jan 15, 2020 9:22:21 GMT basser said:

Y'all what if Zimmy is the Annie who's actually meant to be from this timeline? Maybe the Annie we've been following got shifted in forever ago (as a result of whatever shenanigans Tony was doing to try to save Surma?) and that's why Zimmy got all goofed.

Support for this theory just off the top of my head: Zimmy was briefly Annie in not-Birmingham; Jack was super into Annie and then shifted to Zimmy like it weren't no thing; Annie is the only person besides Gamma able to act as an etheric heat sink; Renard is uniquely freaked by whatever Zimmy is; Annie has been described as "attractive" to spirits, Zimmy attracts the ether; Zimmy was able to pretty effortlessly pop into Annie's head and punched the holy heck out of Tony, causing him to have an epiphany; Tony acts weird around Prissy Annie but not Scruffy Annie, suggesting Prissy Annie is in fact more than one person somehow, which might indicate she's the one "attached" to this timeline's Zimmy; Zimmy just kinda looks like a nega-Annie, like they're the same size with the same kind of hair and stuff.

Basically I'm kind of thinking of how there's this thing where fairies steal your baby and replace it with a freaky demon baby. Except in this case Tony asked freaky spirits to steal Surma's baby and replace it with a baby from another timeline, presumably in an effort to avoid the fire being transferred, as one might expect it wouldn't be able to transfer to a random alternate-timeline baby. Except it turned out the fire wasn't picky and that's why Tony freaked out so hard, because not only did he not save Surma but he also condemned some innocent kid(s) to an unknown horrific fate. So much bad karma.

Oh! And another thing is that Zimmy is thematically evocative of a smoldering ember, which would be a tiny bit of leftover (forgotten) fire, so one might imagine her as the baby that got a tiny bit of fire but then got dumped in Birmingham (for some reason) to make way for Tony's shiny new alternate-timeline baby. Her soul knows it's missing something so it sucks up ether looking for its fire, and the rain makes her sizzle and washes off the ash to reveal the red glow of her eyes.

... ok wait this comment started as a joke but now I feel like I've kinda halfway convinced myself.

Well, you also kinda halfway convinced me, for one.

Please copy this into the Wildspec thread as well! It would be a great shame if your thoughts get buried under future page threads.

[ctso74]

I just hear a pitched-down bass drop. Did anyone else hear a bass drop?

[Sky Schemer]

I am looking forward to the ensuing rap battle.

[kefka]

Jan 15, 2020 9:22:21 GMT basser said:

Y'all what if Zimmy is the Annie who's actually meant to be from this timeline? Maybe the Annie we've been following got shifted in forever ago (as a result of whatever shenanigans Tony was doing to try to save Surma?) and that's why Zimmy got all goofed.

Support for this theory just off the top of my head: Zimmy was briefly Annie in not-Birmingham; Jack was super into Annie and then shifted to Zimmy like it weren't no thing; Annie is the only person besides Gamma able to act as an etheric heat sink; Renard is uniquely freaked by whatever Zimmy is; Annie has been described as "attractive" to spirits, Zimmy attracts the ether; Zimmy was able to pretty effortlessly pop into Annie's head and punched the holy heck out of Tony, causing him to have an epiphany; Tony acts weird around Prissy Annie but not Scruffy Annie, suggesting Prissy Annie is in fact more than one person somehow, which might indicate she's the one "attached" to this timeline's Zimmy; Zimmy just kinda looks like a nega-Annie, like they're the same size with the same kind of hair and stuff.

Basically I'm kind of thinking of how there's this thing where fairies steal your baby and replace it with a freaky demon baby. Except in this case Tony asked freaky spirits to steal Surma's baby and replace it with a baby from another timeline, presumably in an effort to avoid the fire being transferred, as one might expect it wouldn't be able to transfer to a random alternate-timeline baby. Except it turned out the fire wasn't picky and that's why Tony freaked out so hard, because not only did he not save Surma but he also condemned some innocent kid(s) to an unknown horrific fate. So much bad karma.

Oh! And another thing is that Zimmy is thematically evocative of a smoldering ember, which would be a tiny bit of leftover (forgotten) fire, so one might imagine her as the baby that got a tiny bit of fire but then got dumped in Birmingham (for some reason) to make way for Tony's shiny new alternate-timeline baby. Her soul knows it's missing something so it sucks up ether looking for its fire, and the rain makes her sizzle and washes off the ash to reveal the red glow of her eyes.

... ok wait this comment started as a joke but now I feel like I've kinda halfway convinced myself.

Also when she said "message from your little girl" to Tony she was talking about herself

[darlos9d]

Suddenly this whole chapter seems worth it.

Seriously though, Irrational Jerk Paz feels like a somewhat high price to pay to finally see these two again.

[Gemini Jim]

*skims the posts* Oh good, I'm not the only one who thinks Gamma looks huge.

I thought it was Zimmy's mother or something at first.

[pyradonis]

Jan 15, 2020 15:47:46 GMT Gemini Jim said:

*skims the posts* Oh good, I'm not the only one who thinks Gamma looks huge.

I thought it was Zimmy's mother or something at first.

In a typical mystery webcomic, one does not exclude the other.

[wies]

Hello! The return of Zimmy and Gamma exited me so much I felt the need to express it here!
What can I say, there are things for which mere lurking is not enough.

I don't know how active I will be, but I often enjoyed reading your thoughts and comments and will continue to do that anyway.

Looking forward to the next page!

[imaginaryfriend]

Welcome to the forum, wies !

Jan 15, 2020 14:37:50 GMT Sky Schemer said:

I am looking forward to the ensuing rap battle.

How about a dance-off?

[Darkfeather21]

Zimmy is just leaning slightly, y'all, no big thing.

I mean, Gamma has definitely grown up a bit, but Zimmy isn't shrinking or anything.

[mordekai]

Okay, Paz is being beyond idiotic here... she has no clue what is happening, and she has just chosen a random scapegoat to pour her hatred on... Annie is just a victim who has been caught in the fallout of a mad god's games and another god's tantrum, and she is doing her best to fix it...

[tlo]

ooh gamma is big gorl

[alevice]

I tried to defend Paz for a while, but these laast two pages definitely sees she is using annie as an scapegoat and trying to control friendships, and its even worse when she bases it on hearsay of all things.

Ugh.

Im glad gamma and zimmy are back tho

[worldsong]

Jan 15, 2020 15:47:46 GMT Gemini Jim said:

*skims the posts* Oh good, I'm not the only one who thinks Gamma looks huge.

I thought it was Zimmy's mother or something at first.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I'm guessing Gamma is just naturally tall while Zimmy either is naturally short or her condition interferes with her growth... or a combination of the two.

Honestly we'd need to see how Gamma and Zimmy compare to the other girls before we can draw conclusions.

That aside I'm really happy to see those two. Aside from being two of my favourite characters (well, mostly Zimmy but Gamma is also important) I think this is going to be a lot more fun than anything I'd been predicting. I don't think Paz knows nearly enough about Zimmy to have the slightest clue about how to deal with her (if that's even possible) and it looks like Zimmy isn't going to join the 'everything is Annie's fault' bandwagon.

Especially since, of all the people in the Court, Zimmy would probably be the most understanding of Annie's habit of finding herself in the middle of trouble she didn't ask for.

So instead of having Paz exploit Annie's insecurities and social awkwardness to paint her like the bad guy with little in the form of counterweight we get to see Zimmy and Gamma doing their thing. Well played Tom.

Jan 15, 2020 18:19:50 GMT mordekai said:

Okay, Paz is being beyond idiotic here... she has no clue what is happening, and she has just chosen a random scapegoat to pour her hatred on... Annie is just a victim who has been caught in the fallout of a mad god's games and another god's tantrum, and she is doing her best to fix it...

While I definitely agree that Paz is being unreasonable I wouldn't say that her choice of scapegoat is random. Annie does tend to be in the centre of events even if it's often either accidental or a result of her trying to do the right thing. That and she has that bond with Kat which is what's driving Paz on edge.

Jan 15, 2020 9:22:21 GMT basser said:

Y'all what if Zimmy is the Annie who's actually meant to be from this timeline? Maybe the Annie we've been following got shifted in forever ago (as a result of whatever shenanigans Tony was doing to try to save Surma?) and that's why Zimmy got all goofed.

Support for this theory just off the top of my head: Zimmy was briefly Annie in not-Birmingham; Jack was super into Annie and then shifted to Zimmy like it weren't no thing; Annie is the only person besides Gamma able to act as an etheric heat sink; Renard is uniquely freaked by whatever Zimmy is; Annie has been described as "attractive" to spirits, Zimmy attracts the ether; Zimmy was able to pretty effortlessly pop into Annie's head and punched the holy heck out of Tony, causing him to have an epiphany; Tony acts weird around Prissy Annie but not Scruffy Annie, suggesting Prissy Annie is in fact more than one person somehow, which might indicate she's the one "attached" to this timeline's Zimmy; Zimmy just kinda looks like a nega-Annie, like they're the same size with the same kind of hair and stuff.

Basically I'm kind of thinking of how there's this thing where fairies steal your baby and replace it with a freaky demon baby. Except in this case Tony asked freaky spirits to steal Surma's baby and replace it with a baby from another timeline, presumably in an effort to avoid the fire being transferred, as one might expect it wouldn't be able to transfer to a random alternate-timeline baby. Except it turned out the fire wasn't picky and that's why Tony freaked out so hard, because not only did he not save Surma but he also condemned some innocent kid(s) to an unknown horrific fate. So much bad karma.

Oh! And another thing is that Zimmy is thematically evocative of a smoldering ember, which would be a tiny bit of leftover (forgotten) fire, so one might imagine her as the baby that got a tiny bit of fire but then got dumped in Birmingham (for some reason) to make way for Tony's shiny new alternate-timeline baby. Her soul knows it's missing something so it sucks up ether looking for its fire, and the rain makes her sizzle and washes off the ash to reveal the red glow of her eyes.

... ok wait this comment started as a joke but now I feel like I've kinda halfway convinced myself.

That's certainly an interesting perspective. I was already curious about Zimmy but now I want to see whether this idea managed to hit any marks.

[todd]

Jan 15, 2020 18:19:50 GMT mordekai said:

Okay, Paz is being beyond idiotic here... she has no clue what is happening, and she has just chosen a random scapegoat to pour her hatred on... Annie is just a victim who has been caught in the fallout of a mad god's games and another god's tantrum, and she is doing her best to fix it...

I think that the "scapegoat" term here is accurate - the person really responsible for this mess is Loup, but he's beyond Paz's reach and Annie isn't.

(I wonder whether Annie is the only person facing danger thanks to such thinking; are a lot of the forest-born inhabitants of the Court facing similar hostility from people upset about the situation, who can't fight the forest-folk actually threatening the Court and so decide to pick on the former-forest-folk, as a sort of "venting their fears and feeling of helplessness"?)

[antiyonder]

So are we due for a brawl or possibly this?:

[Polyhymnia]

If Paz was scared of Annie, how is she going to feel about Zimmy?

[Sky Schemer]

Now that Zimmy is here, we have to accept the possibility that that isn't Paz, there aren't two Annies, the two girls behind Paz aren't even there, that's not Gamma, and Zimmy isn't the real Zimmy.

[psybershadow]

It's been a long time since I posted here, but I had to come back just to say.

ZIMMY AND GAMMA! And they look so cute nowadays!

[pyradonis]

Jan 16, 2020 0:17:49 GMT todd said:

Jan 15, 2020 18:19:50 GMT mordekai said:

Okay, Paz is being beyond idiotic here... she has no clue what is happening, and she has just chosen a random scapegoat to pour her hatred on... Annie is just a victim who has been caught in the fallout of a mad god's games and another god's tantrum, and she is doing her best to fix it...

I think that the "scapegoat" term here is accurate - the person really responsible for this mess is Loup, but he's beyond Paz's reach and Annie isn't.

(I wonder whether Annie is the only person facing danger thanks to such thinking; are a lot of the forest-born inhabitants of the Court facing similar hostility from people upset about the situation, who can't fight the forest-folk actually threatening the Court and so decide to pick on the former-forest-folk, as a sort of "venting their fears and feeling of helplessness"?)

I would rather say Coyote is the one responsible. Loup is just one of the many characters Coyote manipulates (and continues to manipulate from beyond the grave), regardless how much he would like to think otherwise.

There might be some hostile reactions to former forest-folk, but I guess if it was much, the comic would have shown it. Also it appears that except for rabbit-boy, former forest-folk do not visit the Forest anymore. Annie on the other hand often went there, as everyone knows.

Jan 16, 2020 5:20:54 GMT Polyhymnia said:

If Paz was scared of Annie, how is she going to feel about Zimmy?

And Zimmy is scared of Kat, who is Paz' GF, so it is a fun scary merry-go-round!

Jan 15, 2020 12:23:54 GMT bicarbonat said:

Thank God, finally someone arrives to confiscate the nails and wood.

What does that mean, by the way? Is that a saying?

[gpvos]

Jan 16, 2020 8:15:34 GMT pyradonis said:

Jan 15, 2020 12:23:54 GMT bicarbonat said:

Thank God, finally someone arrives to confiscate the nails and wood.

What does that mean, by the way? Is that a saying?

Not sure if it's a saying, but Paz was about to (figuratively) crucify Annie for things she didn't do or say.

[fia]

Well, I was right about one thing, which is that Kat is really not telling Paz much of anything besides some robot work stuff.

Definitely doesn't know about Jeanne, the Forest, Coyote, Loup, the tree elves, Annie's background, the psychopomps... Mort?

Shocking.


On another note - YAY GAMMAZIMMS!!

[imaginaryfriend]

Jan 16, 2020 8:15:34 GMT pyradonis said:

Jan 15, 2020 12:23:54 GMT bicarbonat said:

Thank God, finally someone arrives to confiscate the nails and wood.

What does that mean, by the way? Is that a saying?

It may be a regional thing but I'm more familiar with "torches and pitchforks."

[sleepcircle]

it must be said, paz was JUST in another fight, which she did not even come close to winning.
she is super twisted up and upset and angry, and when you are super twisted up and upset and angry, you often say things you would not otherwise say, and may not even completely mean, just because it is a relief to get the poison out of you.

[jda]

Just as Paz once did, now Zimmy embodies...
The Spanish Inquisition!

[strangebloke1]

Lots of thoughts on the last few pages, and then I'll go back to lurking.

In this page we finally get a more or less complete summation from Paz. She has a chance to speak her mind without Annie interrupting her. We hear the first and the last of Paz's issues with the situation. So here's what we know.

• Annie's "situation" is part of what is causing Kat distress. (fair point, we know this to be true and we know that Annie has been ignoring her on this topic. Even when the issue was less that "both Annies are fake" and more that "one Annie is fake," Paz still saw Kat as a victim of Annie.)
  
• Annie talking to Kat about it would "make it worse" (once again, this is probably true, but is it really Annie's fault? Once again, it was clear before the Annies reconciled that they didn't want this situation either and were very distressed by it.)
• Everything has changed and its somehow Annie's fault. (THIS is the completely unfair part, and it explains why she's mad at Annie whereas people who know Annie better like Anthony, Kat, and Reynard don't blame her at all despite being upset about the situation. Paz admits that she's basing her opinions on hearsay and conjecture.)
• Annie is a bad friend and doesn't deserve Kat.

And that's really the rub, isn't it? Paz views Annie as a bad friend because Annie keeps pulling Kat into these hijinks and making things chaotic. Indeed, being friends with Annie probably does make Kat's life much more busy and interesting, sometimes in a bad way. To make it worse, while Annie and Kat both are great friends, but Annie, with her fey attitude and general difficulty relating to people, doesn't come across as caring, and her attempts to apologize and/or help are outright terrible.

In this way, Paz sees Kat as a pure and sweet 'giver' and everyone else as a 'taker' with Annie being the worst offender.

And to some extent she's right. Annie and Kat are two very socially stunted people who only really had each other as friends for a long period. Annie neither understands how to express her own emotions (leading to her exploding and burning everything) nor is she particularly good at reading other people's emotions. She's not selfish, she just honestly doesn't get people. Kat... either out of pride or out of low self-esteem (or both) never, never talks about her own problems. Every time she's feeling down for one reason or another she prioritizes helping other people over fixing her own issues. If you go back to Katurday, you'll see that her entire day is pretty much completely devoted to solving other people's problems.

But the BIGGEST thing that Paz is missing is the mystical side of things. Everything I said about Kat and Annie's relationship holds true in the court, but in the forest or other mystical areas, their roles are reversed. Kat is the well-meaning but clueless person who sometimes causes huge damage unintentionally (like the looming thing with the robots, or the thing with the computer summoning an 'arbiter') whereas Annie is the empathetic person who dedicates huge amounts of time and effort to helping people.

That's what you need to know to 'get' Kat and Annie. You have to see how they operate in both domains. They're actually very similar people with completely different areas of expertise, which is why they get along so well.

So I do see Paz's side of the matter, even though I ultimately agree with Zimmy that she's being terribly unfair. Poor Kat! Poor Annie! Poor Paz! What a dilemma!

[saardvark]

Jan 16, 2020 14:55:12 GMT jda said:

Just as Paz once did, now Zimmy embodies...
The Spanish Inquisition!

Noooobody expects the Zimmy Imposition!  

[pyradonis]

Jan 16, 2020 17:08:38 GMT strangebloke1 said:

But the BIGGEST thing that Paz is missing is the mystical side of things. Everything I said about Kat and Annie's relationship holds true in the court, but in the forest or other mystical areas, their roles are reversed. Kat is the well-meaning but clueless person who sometimes causes huge damage unintentionally (like the looming thing with the robots, or the thing with the computer summoning an 'arbiter') whereas Annie is the empathetic person who dedicates huge amounts of time and effort to helping people.

That's what you need to know to 'get' Kat and Annie. You have to see how they operate in both domains. They're actually very similar people with completely different areas of expertise, which is why they get along so well.

Right. With all the talk about how often Kat helps Annie, it often gets overlooked how often Annie helps someone. But think of how she helped Shadow 2 get out of (and later back into) the Court, and hide there. She (together with Kat) gave her best to help Red reconcile with Ayilu. She rescued Robot after his body had been paperclipped. She defended Ysengrin multiple times against verbal abuse (and with fire against monsters). She helped Mort learn how to be scary, and when he wanted to move on, she took him into the Ether. She helped the dead boy who had played with fire to accept and move on. She took her mother into the Ether! She did the main work in freeing the trapped souls of Jeanne and her boyfriend. She helped Jack when he was possessed. And I could probably think of a lot more if I did not have to study and work right now...

EDIT: Oh, and she helped Kat with makeup when Kat had a crush on Aly!

[strangebloke1]

Jan 16, 2020 18:39:12 GMT pyradonis said:

Jan 16, 2020 17:08:38 GMT strangebloke1 said:

But the BIGGEST thing that Paz is missing is the mystical side of things. Everything I said about Kat and Annie's relationship holds true in the court, but in the forest or other mystical areas, their roles are reversed. Kat is the well-meaning but clueless person who sometimes causes huge damage unintentionally (like the looming thing with the robots, or the thing with the computer summoning an 'arbiter') whereas Annie is the empathetic person who dedicates huge amounts of time and effort to helping people.

That's what you need to know to 'get' Kat and Annie. You have to see how they operate in both domains. They're actually very similar people with completely different areas of expertise, which is why they get along so well.

Right. With all the talk about how often Kat helps Annie, it often gets overlooked how often Annie helps someone. But think of how she helped Shadow 2 get out of (and later back into) the Court, and hide there. She (together with Kat) gave her best to help Red reconcile with Ayilu. She rescued Robot after his body had been paperclipped. She defended Ysengrin multiple times against verbal abuse (and with fire against monsters). She helped Mort learn how to be scary, and when he wanted to move on, she took him into the Ether. She helped the dead boy who had played with fire to accept and move on. She took her mother into the Ether! She did the main work in freeing the trapped souls of Jeanne and her boyfriend. She helped Jack when he was possessed. And I could probably think of a lot more if I did not have to study and work right now...

Yeah, there are a ton of examples. Her whole role as medium is essentially built around her trying to help people for reasons that are pretty much completely selfless.

And even with people in the court, she ends up causing damage because she doesn't understand things, not because she's personally vindictive or cruel. Like she has no problem keeping Janet and Winsbury's secret for them. She hurts Kat by running away to the forest, but that wasn't her primary intention. She didn't even think about it at all.