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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 13, 2020 10:04:43 GMT
The only evidence of something being terribly wrong with Kat, and Annies being to blame for it, is Paz's side of the story. She is quickly proving to be a massively biased and unreliable narrator, but for some reason everyone seems to accept her word as gospel. I think it's reasonable for Antimonies (and the forum) to believe that Kat's worried and upset about Antimonies' situation but you raise a good point. The only evidence that we've got that Kat is like a different person, unable to concentrate, obsessed, etc. is Paz's word for it. |
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Post by kayback on Jan 13, 2020 10:20:37 GMT
The problem is we've been following Forest Annie and her timeline. The 6th month absence which we never saw has had the potential to develop both Paz and Kats personality and relationship further than we are privy to.
The Court Annie hasn't said she won't smoke check Paz. (if I'm following the necklace wearing correctly). We don't know what's up between those two. We simply don't have enough information.
I do think Paz is operating on a level of insecurity above what's normal. And I think she's projecting quite a bit. She's been giving grief to Annie since she got together with Kat but Kat and Annie have been friends for ages. Lovers come and go but friends last a lifetime.
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Post by arf on Jan 13, 2020 10:42:39 GMT
Becky's not looking at all comfortable with where this conversation is going.
I have previously said that Annie really should come clean about her role in the balloon incident.
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Post by philman on Jan 13, 2020 11:08:57 GMT
I don't think Paz is being all that unreasonable đ¤ what else are you supposed to do when the way the person you love deals with any problem is just 'repress and pretend no thing's wrong'. I feel like Paz has said something to Kat like 'it's blindingly obvious that something is wrong and you won't tell me but here's what I think it is' which probably turned into the fight we witnessed earlier. Plus, Paz has been worried about Kat since before the new contract/finding out about the 'original' Annie being lost: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2098And in this fight with Annie she's pointing out something they already KNOW about themselves. They always accept Kat's mood and wellbeing at face value, because it's convenient.https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2116 (BTW, a lot of you sound like the last panel of that comic right now đ) Anyway, I don't think this fight is about Paz at all. I think Paz is a communicator, and she is struggling to mediate this friendship between two people who communicate badly in two different ways. /hot take I think she is being unreasonable in the way she is going about it, but I also think she brings up a lot of good points. We have been shown that Kat is getting obsessed with this two Annie's thing, and obsessed with finding the 3rd, original Annie. Paz is noticing these things but Annie isn't. I said before, if you aren't noticing these severe personality changes and obsessions in supposedly your best friend, then how good of a friend are you really? From the start, the Annie/Kat friendship has always seemed to be very one-directional. Kat supporting Annie through troubles (Tony coming back, sitting by her bedside while in hospital, etc), but Annie is often just either oblivious or uncaring (i.e. now, and when she abandoned Kat with zero warning to go to the forest for a summer), confrontational or manipulative (With the bird-boy, I forget his name right now, and when stealing Kat's homework), or downright abandonment (When she learned Kat and Paz first got together, her response was to just abandon and ignore Kat rather than support her). |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 13, 2020 11:19:30 GMT
I think Paz's feelings are very easy to understand and empathize with. Paz's methods, on the other hand, are...
...Well, I guess she's pretty much doing things the same way as Antimonies which isn't surprising as they're both kids. If she is really as concerned as she claims/acts she should have gone to the Donlans or maybe other teachers, but Kat REALLY wouldn't like that. I'm guessing that Paz also never tried asking any other adult for help or advice, or if she did she didn't get the answer she wanted.
She did think to bring friends for support which Antimonies weren't doing at first.
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Post by madjack on Jan 13, 2020 11:25:14 GMT
It'll be interesting if there is a third Annie now because if there is an 'original' then she's missed out on all the character development we've seen. The moment she gets introduced it'll be the the other two just rey-phoning each other every time Original!Annie opens her mouth awkwardly/guiltily acknowledging to each other that, yes, they really were like that.
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 13, 2020 11:36:04 GMT
Are we sure Paz has not been replaced with a doppelgänger? She does not seem like I remember her from before Annie went into the Forest. Or she really found out about who was behind that horror clown. Yeah. Must be the clown. The only evidence of something being terribly wrong with Kat, and Annies being to blame for it, is Paz's side of the story. She is quickly proving to be a massively biased and unreliable narrator, but for some reason everyone seems to accept her word as gospel. I think it's reasonable for Antimonies (and the forum) to believe that Kat's worried and upset about Antimonies' situation but you raise a good point. The only evidence that we've got that Kat is like a different person, unable to concentrate, obsessed, etc. is Paz's word for it. Well, that and the beginning of this chapter, where she clearly was distraught and later distracted. For the "the court is under siege" thing, her active contribution is the freeing of Jeanne. Not that Jeanne, powerful as she was, could have stopped a God. By the way, does Paz even know about Jeanne? From the start, the Annie/Kat friendship has always seemed to be very one-directional. Kat supporting Annie through troubles (Tony coming back, sitting by her bedside while in hospital, etc), but Annie is often just either oblivious or uncaring (i.e. now, and when she abandoned Kat with zero warning to go to the forest for a summer), confrontational or manipulative (With the bird-boy, I forget his name right now, and when stealing Kat's homework), or downright abandonment (When she learned Kat and Paz first got together, her response was to just abandon and ignore Kat rather than support her). Yes, Annie has usually more and bigger problems, and Kat has always been there to help, but I still think you are forgetting a lot. For example: - Annie was the first one who did not react negatively to Kat's perfect grades, and generally the first one who accepted her as a friend in GKC. - Annie supported all of Kat's projects, be it the science fair (including getting up at night when the motion detector went off), discovering the old robots from Diego's time, or her later robotic work. - During the camping trip she forced herself to stay with the group, so that Kat would not be isolated because of her. - She immediately tried to protect Kat when she thought she was threatened by a giant sea-monster (Lindsey). - During Torn Sea, she fought to protect others who were threatened because of Kat's robot projects. Just like Kat always helps cleaning up Annie's mess, this time Annie helped clean up Kat's mess. As I said, Annie has the most problems, but many are not her fault, and their friendship is not as one-sided as you might think. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 13, 2020 11:39:26 GMT
It'll be interesting if there is a third Annie now because if there is an 'original' then she's missed out on all the character development we've seen. The moment she gets introduced it'll be the the other two just rey-phoning each other every time Original!Annie opens her mouth awkwardly/guiltily acknowledging to each other that, yes, they really were like that. I cannot really imagine this. Neither that Tom would let the actual main character just be hidden somewhere for months or years without anyone knowing, nor that he would have the same plot (another Annie, finding out whether she is real, deciding who gets to wear their favourite jumper, becoming friends...) again. I firmly believe, if there ever was a third Annie, she is dead and has long been dead, maybe longer than the comic.
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Post by MarineMonarch on Jan 13, 2020 11:40:50 GMT
Maybe it's just me, but I kinda like that we get to see the bad side of Paz? It makes her feel more real, rather than just slotting into her role as Kat's supportive gf. I think a recurring element of Gunnerkrigg is that basically everyone has the capacity to be truly nasty and cruel, either if they can justify it or if they're feeling notably desperate or vindictive - and additionally it makes an effort to avoid idealised fictional resolutions to this. Sometimes people are able to genuinely apologise and make up, sometimes the issue is never really resolved but relationships are able to recover anyway over time. I think often the readers are too quick to look at events presented neutrally (or at least trying to be presented neutrally) and try to moralise what's being shown as what Tom is trying to say or mean. I mean god I remember the comments during Red's Friend Gets a Name too I Suppose. Just because a character gets to yell at Annie for a few pages while she doesn't argue back well doesn't mean they're right, or that the comic is trying to present them as right, it just means that Annie is crap at defending herself.
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Post by faiiry on Jan 13, 2020 11:52:45 GMT
Iâm not on Pazâs side here, and I think her actions come more from petty jealousy than from any real desire to help Kat. And I donât think her points of contention are particularly rational either. What is Annie supposed to do, magically fuse back together?
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Post by rafk on Jan 13, 2020 12:07:31 GMT
Is she jealous or something? I never expected Paz to be so unlikable. Pretty sure jealous, yes. Her girlfriend's best friend is another girl. That friendship is older than the relationship with Paz (and considering how many readers used to ship Annie and Kat, not without its romantic elements). Kat is apparently putting her relationship with Paz behind solving Annie's problems as a priority; one suspects that the issues with the robots are also taking precedence over Paz. This is probably Paz' first real relationship and she feels it is coming apart on her and that it wouldn't be if Annie didn't exist. Blaming Annie is irrational but adults act more irrationally than this every day. Of course, it would be hilarious if Paz was somewhere behind it all STILL nursing a grudge against Annie for setting up that scare of Paz with Mort all those years ago. |
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Post by ghostiet on Jan 13, 2020 13:08:05 GMT
I hope on Wednesday we get a comic where the Annies put up some double middle fingers and tell Paz where she can put 'em, any sort of politeness be damned.. Paz is acting pathetic (even if the Annies truly have been neglecting Kat) and I am honestly tired of Annie getting steamrolled by everyone without properly defending herself. Show some fire, girls.
Although I have to say, it's cool to see Paz' as something more than just the passive girlfriend we see once in a while, and taking it into the "childishly possessive" territory is a surprise (and not a completely unreasonable one).
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Post by todd on Jan 13, 2020 13:22:08 GMT
I am honestly tired of Annie getting steamrolled by everyone without properly defending herself. It does make sense; Annie seems to be experiencing a guilty conscience over all the trouble she's (unintentionally) caused, and that feeling of "They've got a point" would hold her back. Since a lot of people have brought up their concerns about this recurring element in the comic, I'll add one concern of my own: if we keep on taking an approach of "Annie causes trouble every time she tries to help, makes the situation worse, etc.", then the only logical direction for this will be Annie deciding to stop getting involved, to let other people solve these problems, and do nothing. Since she's the main character, however, the story would have difficulty continuing once Annie made that resolution (assuming that she kept it), short of Annie being written out and someone else becoming the new main character. |
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Post by worldsong on Jan 13, 2020 13:37:35 GMT
My opinion of Paz kind of took a nosedive the first time she threatened Annie. Back then her motivations were more reasonable since at the time Frannie was still potentially a fake so she wanted to protect Kat, but I already found her behaviour a bit... excessive. This time it's far less benign especially since her plan this time apparently is to chase Annie away in the hope that Kat will forget about her. The problem I have is that even if everything that Paz says is true (aside from who deserves to be whose friend) that's... still not Annie's fault. Kat is the one who initiated the friendship with Annie and Kat is the one who seems to always take the initiative. Annie has shown jealousy and even a certain level of possessiveness towards Kat but I don't think we've ever seen signs of her consistently manipulating Kat's feelings, stringing her along or holding her emotionally captive. Kat is Annie's friend by choice and if there are any chains they're inside her own mind and also originate from herself. Does this mean that Annie has no blame in the current situation? No. Kat started the friendship but Annie has answered Kat's (platonic) feelings and the two have been friends for long enough that Kat can reasonably expect Annie to pay attention to her mental well-being and be there for her as emotional support. Annie's rather oblivious nature is actually a problem which ideally she would address as she tries to become more attentive (although one could argue that Annie's tendency to focus on her own problems is constantly encouraged by the world's insistence on throwing new and exciting problems at her). As Kat herself has admitted Annie can be a difficult friend and while Annie is overall a good person she's by no means flawless or without her nastier traits. But Kat is not flawless either. A big problem of hers is that she dismisses her own well-being as unimportant and will actually try to hide her distress even as she works herself to death helping Annie even when we have no indication of Annie ever having asked Kat to go that far for her. There's also her obsession with the robots which didn't seem like a problem before Paz entered her life but now most likely plays a big role in Paz feeling like things are out of control. Overall Kaz seems like a workaholic and a worrier who'll drive herself into the ground trying to solve everything while ignoring her own needs. And while Annie's habit of constantly falling into new problems might have exacerbated that habit I still think it'd be unjust to claim it's Annie's fault that Kat is like that. So we've got one person who has a mountain of problems and either on top of that or because of that tends to be oblivious to the needs of her friends unless they are pointed out to her, and we have a person who will continuously deny her own needs and instead try to do everything. The result is that communication is failing on both sides so treating either side as being the sole culprit is incorrect. Writing all this I think that at the end of the day Paz is really just upset at Kat. She wants Kat to put more effort into looking after herself (and also spend more time with Paz). But Kat is apparently refusing to do that because she considers her own needs unimportant compared to the problems which are keeping her awake at night. But Paz doesn't want to admit that because she loves Kat or at the very least feels strongly attracted to her. So after trying to approach Kat on the issue and failing I think she's trying to convince herself (and others) that Kat's problematic traits only exist because of Annie and that once Annie goes away all the problems will be resolved. In fact Annie's obliviousness might also partially be caused by Kat's insistence on ignoring her own needs. Kat tries to project herself as always being there to help Annie and never needing help with anything herself (at least not anything emotional) so Annie, who is already rather preoccupied with her own life, never learns to pay more attention to Kat's well-being. If that's the case their relationship does have something unhealthy about it but it's more both sides having unhealthy habits that feed each other instead of one side dragging the other down. However all of this sounds rather negative so let's not forget that Annie and Kat are genuinely good friends who've gone through a lot of fun times with each other and done their best to help each other out and be there for each other if they were aware that the other person needed their help.
EDIT: Also I'm starting to think that Tom is intentionally deconstructing the trope of the protagonist, someone who the entire world seems to revolve around.
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Post by sicklykobold on Jan 13, 2020 14:08:46 GMT
Are we sure Paz has not been replaced with a doppelgänger? She does not seem like I remember her from before Annie went into the Forest. Or she really found out about who was behind that horror clown. Yeah. Must be the clown. I think it's reasonable for Antimonies (and the forum) to believe that Kat's worried and upset about Antimonies' situation but you raise a good point. The only evidence that we've got that Kat is like a different person, unable to concentrate, obsessed, etc. is Paz's word for it. Well, that and the beginning of this chapter, where she clearly was distraught and later distracted. I would say that it is made quite clear that at the beginning of this chapter she is distraught because of the argument she has just had with Paz. It would certainly help a lot if we knew what exactly was said during the exchange. Everyone would be upset directly following an argument with their SO. It does not prove anything about Kat's state of mind in long term prior to the incident. Perhaps it is Paz who has been growing increasingly jealous and ignored lately? Perhaps it is her state of mind that has been deteriorating, not Kat's.
Also, Annies later mention the Court's decision to override the robots and Kat becomes very upset about that. It doesn't jibe with Paz's description of Kat's mental state of literally being unable to eat, sleep or breathe because she's so single-mindedly obsessed with Annies.
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Post by ctso74 on Jan 13, 2020 15:29:02 GMT
Paz: "YOU'RE TEARING ME APART, KAT! Oh, hi Annie" Paz may not really have a plan as such but she has had time to think about this conversation. She does know Kat and Antimonies are close friends and can try to leverage against them while denying Antimonies any other options (see panel 3) while shutting down any discussion and keeping the Antimonies agitated and unbalanced without giving them time to think. I think Paz is pretty sure that Antimonies will agree to her demand in the end if she can keep this up, and I think she's probably right (though in the long run Paz is toast... burnt toast, for pulling this shit). I'm not sure Paz is thinking, right now. Just reacting to her internal feelings/insecurities. If she does have a plan, then maybe one of the Beckys is a water-type. That's what I'd do, if I was going to angrily confront two Annies. But again, I'm not sure Paz is really thinking right now. More just feeling out loud.
I'm just hoping this doesn't end with Paz "Squirrel Girling" them with a swarm of animals. That could end with the Twins running into the night, being attack by random woodland creatures, or them fireballing a bunch of alley rats. Either way, not a good look for the Annies.
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Post by darlos9d on Jan 13, 2020 15:31:10 GMT
Becky's not looking at all comfortable with where this conversation is going. Yeah really. At the very least it doesn't look like Tom intends to present Paz as behaving reasonably, if backup blond's expression is any indication. Maybe it's just me, but I kinda like that we get to see the bad side of Paz? It makes her feel more real, rather than just slotting into her role as Kat's supportive gf. I think a recurring element of Gunnerkrigg is that basically everyone has the capacity to be truly nasty and cruel, either if they can justify it or if they're feeling notably desperate or vindictive - and additionally it makes an effort to avoid idealised fictional resolutions to this. Sometimes people are able to genuinely apologise and make up, sometimes the issue is never really resolved but relationships are able to recover anyway over time. I think often the readers are too quick to look at events presented neutrally (or at least trying to be presented neutrally) and try to moralise what's being shown as what Tom is trying to say or mean. I mean god I remember the comments during Red's Friend Gets a Name too I Suppose. Just because a character gets to yell at Annie for a few pages while she doesn't argue back well doesn't mean they're right, or that the comic is trying to present them as right, it just means that Annie is crap at defending herself. I feel like at this point this is the only side of Paz, which I think is the issue. She kinda the entered the picture of the story in a bigger way by becoming Kat's girlfriend and then... didn't get a ton of really valuable onscreen time. And now she's just angry. And has been for a while, ever since she threatened Annie that first time. With Red and (not)Blue they were already established as being kind of... weird, and dumb, to be blunt. Their ultimate behavior wasn't completely out of the question. Paz on the other hand was always just sorta Generic Supporting Character, both before and after getting together with Kat. Swinging from that to "completely unreasonable" feels... unearned. It's not really "more real" when we don't have much else to contrast it with. As usual I'll see where this goes, but man I wish there was more to Paz than... this. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jan 13, 2020 15:43:12 GMT
Hah. Love it when characters call Annie out for constantly wrecking shit. I think all y'all like to forget Annie's not just some innocent girl, she's the vessel for a literal embodiment of the concept of fire - unpredictable, has potential for mass destruction, and any situation she's involved with instantly turns much more dangerous. Not her fault, sure, but that doesn't change what she is. Ain't unreasonable for Paz to be concerned about her girlfriend coming down with magic pyromania. Paz's complaint is that "you are upsetting Kat" and that what Kat is upset about is "[Annie's] situation", and is demanding to know why "[Annie] is doing all this". Let's break that down. Annie's "situation" is at the end of a chain of several actions. Some of those are actions Annie took that set up the environment for where we are, but ultimately, it was Coyote's decision to dangle power in front of Ysengrin, followed by Loup's instability and insecurity mixed with Coyote's personality, that got us here. Loup is the one who did this, and is directly responsible for Annie's state. Paz doesn't know all of that of course, but it's still a stretch to imply that Annie had enough control over the situation to avoid the outcome. Or was able to somehow predict this situation as an outcome of " walking into the forest with the Court Medium to talk to Coyote" like they normally do. That's not just unreasonable. That's off-the-walls crazy. Which means, this isn't about what it's about. What it's about is a dysfunction in the relationship between Paz and Kat. Paz is feeling insecure because Kat is obsessing over another person, and when she tried to raise the issue with Kat it didn't end well. We don't know why, but we have hints that Kat is being dismissive, which is not a cool way to treat your partner. That being said, it's also possible that Paz did not confront Kat in a mature manner, either. So they are both at fault. Annie is both a convenient scapegoat and the McGuffin. Paz can't get through to Kat, so she's lashing out at Annie. If Paz's complaint had stayed at "you do not know how upset she is" then that would be a reasonable argument. It's also very likely true from what we have seen. But that's not what happened. On this page it turned away from the reasonable and became a complaint that Kat is "obsessed with [Annie]" and that "everything [Annie does] makes it worse". So Annie can't do nothing, and she can't do something. There aren't any options left other than to stop being Kat's friend. Edited to add: This would be a cool and interesting plot arc if it wasn't back-to-back with a bunch of other unpleasant stuff that is not at all fun to read. |
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Post by mitten on Jan 13, 2020 16:01:18 GMT
Even if it were true that Kat is overworking to the point of not eating, sleeping properly etc, I would argue that there are at least two important characters far better qualified than Annie to both notice it and do something about it. Kat is still legally a minor, correct? An only child of two loving and highly competent and intelligent parents, who presumably still live with her, which Annnie doesn't and who can observe her daily habits. If Donnie and Anja haven't noticed anything wrong, then how is Annie supposed to, especially if Kat is going out of her way to hide it from her?
So yes. Paz is being completely unreasonable and unfair, and acting like the worst kind of possessive partner trying to separate her SO from their best friend 'for their own good'. Annie may not always be a perfect friend, but right now Paz is being a very bad girlfriend. I hope Kat finds out about exactly what she's been saying and doing.
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Post by Polyhymnia on Jan 13, 2020 16:06:12 GMT
Hah. Love it when characters call Annie out for constantly wrecking shit. I think all y'all like to forget Annie's not just some innocent girl, she's the vessel for a literal embodiment of the concept of fire - unpredictable, has potential for mass destruction, and any situation she's involved with instantly turns much more dangerous. Not her fault, sure, but that doesn't change what she is. Ain't unreasonable for Paz to be concerned about her girlfriend coming down with magic pyromania. Paz's complaint is that "you are upsetting Kat" and that what Kat is upset about is "[Annie's] situation", and is demanding to know why "[Annie] is doing all this". Let's break that down. Annie's "situation" is at the end of a chain of several actions. Some of those are actions Annie took that set up the environment for where we are, but ultimately, it was Coyote's decision to dangle power in front of Ysengrin, followed by Loup's instability and insecurity mixed with Coyote's personality, that got us here. Loup is the one who did this, and is directly responsible for Annie's state. Paz doesn't know all of that of course, but it's still a stretch to imply that Annie had enough control over the situation to avoid the outcome. Or was able to somehow predict this situation as an outcome of " walking into the forest with the Court Medium to talk to Coyote" like they normally do. That's not just unreasonable. That's off-the-walls crazy. Which means, this isn't about what it's about. What it's about is a dysfunction in the relationship between Paz and Kat. Paz is feeling insecure because Kat is obsessing over another person, and when she tried to raise the issue with Kat it didn't end well. We don't know why, but we have hints that Kat is being dismissive, which is not a cool way to treat your partner. That being said, it's also possible that Paz did not confront Kat in a mature manner, either. So they are both at fault. Annie is both a convenient scapegoat and the McGuffin. Paz can't get through to Kat, so she's lashing out at Annie. If Paz's complaint had stayed at "you do not know how upset she is" then that would be a reasonable argument. It's also very likely true from what we have seen. But that's not what happened. On this page it turned away from the reasonable and became a complaint that Kat is "obsessed with [Annie]" and that "everything [Annie does] makes it worse". So Annie can't do nothing, and she can't do something. There aren't any options left other than to stop being Kat's friend. Edited to add: This would be a cool and interesting plot arc if it wasn't back-to-back with a bunch of other unpleasant stuff that is not at all fun to read. This! I donât think that Annie is must be an angel to see what Paz is saying is unreasonable. âThisâ situation is so big and wild that I donât think Paz could have come up with a more specific gibe. So sheâs generalizing and blaming Annie for the things she canât control. (For the record, I thought Red brought up many good points, but I wouldnât put Paz into the same category at all. How is it that a bizarre former fairy was more specific than Paz, who just says âdonât do anything to upset her,â donât do anything (everything you do makes it worse), and donât be her friend (you do not deserve to be her friend).) I guess what I donât get is what Annie is even âdoingâ that Paz is so upset about. Going into the forest? Trying to be a medium? It seems like weâve watched Annie be very reactive, so the only thing I can think about is looking for the bone and water and negotiating a place for Khepiâs people. ETA: I think itâs entirely likely Paz confronted Kat in a very vague way as well, but Kat doesnât seem to freeze like Annie does and may have called her on it. âStop doing what? Care about the robots? Try to figure whatâs going on? Try to find a solution that doesnât make zombies? Things have gone very wrong at the court, and you can bet Iâm going to do something about it.â âBut donât you care about our relationship? You have to stop this! Let someone else do something about it!â âThere is no way Iâm going to stop trying to help my friends.â Enter Annies. |
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Post by Polyhymnia on Jan 13, 2020 16:33:11 GMT
So I was reading back a little to Dealing with Her and I noticed that Paz isnât the only one whoâs unreasonably blaming Annie for their problems. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2106But maybe Iâm reading into this too much, but Kat seems to have been on edge for a while. In the very least, her hairâs was pretty long even from the first time she met Forest Annie, and her hair has historically been an indicator of her state of mind. (Of course, this could just be the robots making a shield and not cutting hair, and a general indicator of the post apocalyptic conditions, but none of the male characters with short hair seem to be having a problem keeping their hair short). www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2069Here we see Paz at odds with Kat (contrast their expressions when they look at Annie pre-âget the Annies to be friendsâ plan. Note the hair length as well. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2102Another note on hair: court Annie has gotten a haircut in this interim, but it seems like Kat hasnât, which makes it seem more likely that this is a case of âhair as emotional indicatorâ www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1989 |
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Post by bedinsis on Jan 13, 2020 16:40:32 GMT
Reading this page made me go through Dealing with HER again. Notice how Paz is taking cover behind Janet when Annie F first appears. Notice that she only confronts her when their window for conversation is small enough that Annie cannot reply. And how she hides behind Kat once the opportunity appears. And for this meeting she brought back-up. It makes me wonder: does she fear Annie? As readers we are privy to all of Annie's adventures and her personality and know that she really isn't dangerous. Annie probably relays most of the parts that Kat doesn't experience to Kat. Paz, though? She'll either have to trust second-hand information from Kat or infer from their encounters. And there might be reasons to fear her. In particular now that she's living in a war zone. Annie has acknowledged herself that she might be making people nervous.Then again, this page might be pointing towards me speaking out of my behind. |
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Post by Polyhymnia on Jan 13, 2020 16:50:14 GMT
Reading this page made me go through Dealing with HER again. Notice how Paz is taking cover behind Janet when Annie F first appears. Notice that she only confronts her when their window for conversation is small enough that Annie cannot reply. And how she hides behind Kat once the opportunity appears. And for this meeting she brought back-up. It makes me wonder: does she fear Annie? As readers we are privy to all of Annie's adventures and her personality and know that she really isn't dangerous. Annie probably relays most of the parts that Kat doesn't experience to Kat. Paz, though? She'll either have to trust second-hand information from Kat or infer from their encounters. And there might be reasons to fear her. In particular now that she's living in a war zone. Annie has acknowledged herself that she might be making people nervous.Then again, this page might be pointing towards me speaking out of my behind. I think she does fear Annie, but not necessarily only because of her powers. Right after the bowling incident, sheâs perfectly cordial. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1635At that point in time she seems comfortable around Annie. But thatâs when theyâre planning to set Annie up with Winsbury, so that makes me think fear isnât the primary motivator, since she wasnât a relationship threat at that point in time. Sheâs threatened by Annie, but not primarily because of her power. |
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Post by Gotolei on Jan 13, 2020 16:58:47 GMT
Even if it were true that Kat is overworking to the point of not eating, sleeping properly etc, I would argue that there are at least two important characters far better qualified than Annie to both notice it and do something about it. Kat is still legally a minor, correct? An only child of two loving and highly competent and intelligent parents, who presumably still live with her, which Annnie doesn't and who can observe her daily habits. If Donnie and Anja haven't noticed anything wrong, then how is Annie supposed to, especially if Kat is going out of her way to hide it from her? The Court seems to really want the kids to be used to being separate from their parents. Even in times of non-emergency, they were living in their own apartments, outlandish dorms etc from quite young ages to the point that's it might as well be a boarding school. In the current situation, she still lives separately from them.It isn't unrealistic that Anja might pop by every now and then like she seemed to back in the early days of Kat's workshop, but if Kat's been hiding her inner side from Annie then she might be hiding it from her parents as well.
(Also, welcome to the forums!)
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quark
Full Member
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Post by quark on Jan 13, 2020 17:08:41 GMT
Damn, poor Annies. Poor Paz, too. Poor Kat! None of them react well in this situation, really.
I don't think Paz worries entirely unfounded or unreasonable, but the way she goes about it is out of line. Considering the fact that she's (most likely) brought it up before and Kat called her stupid (which is a cruel insult to someone you love in my book, but we don't know if she said it to her face) it makes sense that she's emotionally tapped out, and doesn't know what to do except lash out at the person/people she blames. Not ideal, but who is these days.
I also don't think the Annies are to blame for not noticing Kat's mental health has taken a hit - they are kind of busy with their own problems, and each other. If nothing else was going on, maybe, but the whole apocalyptic situation demands theirs and everyone else's attention. It doesn't make them bad friends, they're just.. well, mostly human.
Kat.. has been working herself ragged, like everyone else who's responsibility is the survival of the inhabitants of the Court. She's not patient with her partner, her priorities are screwed (what's wrong with just asking the robots if they'd consent to being temporarily out of commission), she doesn't ask for help. That would be very important even if you don't care that much about her well-being, as she clearly doesn't - if Kat falls ill/gets injured/dies, everyone dies. Juliette is the only contender to actually replace her if that happens, but that's not nearly enough.
So, everyone sucks? Yup, they do, mostly because they're all under an incredible amount of stress. Maybe they'll fix it when they are done evacuating a whole population and dealing with a Loup, but I think the character judgements are a bit harsh. Friends and Partners may say horrible things to each other and people make stupid decisions but that doesn't necessarily define who they are. I hope Paz and the Annies figure out how to put their heads together and help Kat instead of yelling cruel things at each other, but if that happens remains to be seen
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 13, 2020 17:12:08 GMT
Even if it were true that Kat is overworking to the point of not eating, sleeping properly etc, I would argue that there are at least two important characters far better qualified than Annie to both notice it and do something about it. Kat is still legally a minor, correct? An only child of two loving and highly competent and intelligent parents, who presumably still live with her, which Annnie doesn't and who can observe her daily habits. If Donnie and Anja haven't noticed anything wrong, then how is Annie supposed to, especially if Kat is going out of her way to hide it from her? You know, I often wonder about that. Kat's parents might be loving and caring, but they do not seem to notice much about what she does, or how she is, or care about the danger she puts herself into, either. I was especially shocked when they seemingly just agreed to let her stay behind in a destroyed war zone directly bordering the Forest after Loup's first attack. But letting her fly into the deadly Annan ravine on her own (at twelve years of age!) was jarring as well. Do they even know what she is up to in her workshop? Do they know that her whole class was endangered because of her work? Even if they just see each other once a week I would expect more concern from them. Granted, Tom could just have decided not to show that because it would clutter up the story, but on other occasions we have seen them be very concerned over Annie's well-being, and actively helping. Kat did also, despite her obvious interest in technology and science, not know anything about her mother's amazing magitek developments. Anja only got to mention it because she was teaching Annie how to use a blinker stone. Which all leaves me wondering about the actual relationship between the Donlans and their daughter. And whether for some reason they, even if only subconsciously, have the same problem Eglamore has: not being fully able to not see their old friend Surma when they look at Annie. Hm. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 13, 2020 17:21:52 GMT
if Kat falls ill/gets injured/dies, everyone dies. What do you mean by that? I feel like at this point this is the only side of Paz, which I think is the issue. She kinda the entered the picture of the story in a bigger way by becoming Kat's girlfriend and then... didn't get a ton of really valuable onscreen time. And now she's just angry. And has been for a while, ever since she threatened Annie that first time. With Red and (not)Blue they were already established as being kind of... weird, and dumb, to be blunt. Their ultimate behavior wasn't completely out of the question. Paz on the other hand was always just sorta Generic Supporting Character, both before and after getting together with Kat. Swinging from that to "completely unreasonable" feels... unearned. It's not really "more real" when we don't have much else to contrast it with. As usual I'll see where this goes, but man I wish there was more to Paz than... this. I'm just hoping this doesn't end with Paz "Squirrel Girling" them with a swarm of animals. That could end with the Twins running into the night, being attack by random woodland creatures, or them fireballing a bunch of alley rats. |
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Post by migrantworker on Jan 13, 2020 17:24:08 GMT
I'm not sure Paz is thinking, right now. Just reacting to her internal feelings/insecurities. If she does have a plan, then maybe one of the Beckys is a water-type. That's what I'd do, if I was going to angrily confront two Annies. But again, I'm not sure Paz is really thinking right now. More just feeling out loud.
I'm just hoping this doesn't end with Paz "Squirrel Girling" them with a swarm of animals. That could end with the Twins running into the night, being attack by random woodland creatures, or them fireballing a bunch of alley rats. Either way, not a good look for the Annies.
There is a worrying possibility that being confrontational, unreasonable, taunting and making impossible demands is Paz's plan. Maybe she hopes that once one/both of the Annies are sufficiently insulted, they will snap and attack her. Hence the witnesses to tell everyone how dangerous Annies really are. Something in how Court Annie stops halfway through the sentence in the last panel tells me that she may be rather close to that point. It's only the 17th page of the current chapter, a lot can still happen before the narrative runs its course. And yes, bringing along a half-water elemental fits into this very well. Not only could she act as an impromptu fire extinguisher, but potentially also give Annies a good run for their money as we saw with the ashray. And the brown-haired girl does look ready for a fight. Annies could really use a witness of their own. Why not call for a resident ladies expert? |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jan 13, 2020 17:48:57 GMT
I get the feeling that Paz has a whole lot of second-hand information about the Annies (from Kat? from Cvet? I don't know, but from somewhere...) and second-hand info. has a tendency to be exaggerated.
* And what about Paz's increasingly reluctant teen girl posse? Assuming they are ordinary students (Gunnerkrigg is still supposed to be a school, right?), they probably know next to nothing - beyond what Paz has told them.
I do like that Paz is wearing a gray, muted kinda-schoolgirl-ish jumper thingy with clunky shoes. Don't know if that is deliberately symbolic, but it feels like it.
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Post by bicarbonat on Jan 13, 2020 18:15:04 GMT
If I were the Annies:
Paz: What are you gonna to, burn me?
Annies: No! I would never - [etherically] *slap* Send your critter friends, Doctor Dolittle, they can come get this work, too
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