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Post by bedinsis on Nov 9, 2018 20:57:13 GMT
Fake Annie obviously got a hair cut. In this comic hair = character development. If she got a haircut, it wouldn't be without good reason - eg, continuing to suppress her fire spirit, which we know from previous events she isn't willing to do anymore. What was the character growth that came with Kat's haircut in chapter 15: Red returns? |
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Post by faiiry on Nov 9, 2018 21:33:26 GMT
In this comic hair = character development. If she got a haircut, it wouldn't be without good reason - eg, continuing to suppress her fire spirit, which we know from previous events she isn't willing to do anymore. What was the character growth that came with Kat's haircut in chapter 15: Red returns? Start of a year, end of summer? I would be more quick to point to her haircut in A Bad Start. Red’s haircut was more important in that chapter anyway. And we’re not talking about Kat anyway, we’re talking about Annie, for whom hair has always been a big deal. Her hair connects her to the ether visually whenever we’re shown ether scenes, it symbolized - and literally represented - a break from her emotions and fire spirit when she cut it in The Tree, and it was only when she started to let it grow again that the audience understood that Annie was starting to recover. I don’t know if you’re trying to argue that Fake Annie having short hair isn’t significant? But if you are, I think you’re probably quite wrong. If not, my mistake of course. |
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Post by fia on Nov 9, 2018 22:27:28 GMT
Theory: Coyote intervened starting as soon as Jeanne was out of the picture, back when Annie's hair was short. Short-haired Annie is from a different timeline, with something between freeing Jeanne and this moment being different (perhaps Andrew really died? or Ayilu did?) but with Annie still getting her hairclip back. In this second timeline, Loup also destroys the Court, which is why the robots are different. It has in fact been a few months since Annie was gone, but she has returned to a different place than she left... |
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Post by fia on Nov 9, 2018 22:39:02 GMT
Second thought: I realize the parallel universe theory sounds unattractive. But hear me out. Lots of things are suspicious about this scene.
(1) Kat's hair is long
(2) Kat seems to be wearing a dress
-- She cut her hair SUPER short just a bit before Loup's attack on the Court, has enough time really passed for her to have hair that long already?
(3) Annie 2's hair is short
(3b) Annie 2 is wearing make-up
-- We have already discussed how Annie had totally stopped this practice after Tony came back
(4) Annie 2 is not wearing Athleisure, her clothing of choice for several chapters now
(5) If doppelganger Annie had "come back" from the forest while original Annie was hanging out with Loup, wouldn't she have gone to live with Tony? Why would they not have evacuated together? Why would they still be living so close to the edge of the forest?
It's almost as if these relationships, as others have pointed out, has reverted to some earlier form. As if Kat is still stuck before finding her confidence again and dating Paz. All that Forest chaos that Loup can't control might affect spacetime, not just space!
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 9, 2018 23:18:41 GMT
What if she didn't even know? What if they are ideally duplicates? What if he send the original out and kept the copy? What if he took half of her molecules two meters apart and substituted the missing ones? Which one is more real than other then? What if Tony liked the copy better? Thats unrestraint trickster-deitying for ya! Well, the whole thing with Surma dying tells us there can only be one fire elemental spirit. So, that's difficult to believe there could be two "real" Annies. You either got the fire in ya or ya don't. Correction, Surma's death tells us that a fire elemental can't GIVE BIRTH TO another fire elemental. I would actually hypothesize that it is possible for Loup to just directly chop off a piece of the elemental force, put it into another (identical) part-human body, and separate it from the original body by a great distance. Thus making it possible for Annie2 to be exactly like the original Annie, only both of them are slightly weakened in elemental power. Of course, this only lasts as long as they're far away from each other. As soon as they meet, a process similar to what killed Surma will start, so that the two Annie's will instinctively feel the need to stay close to each other, even while the piece of elemental in Annie2 is slowly and painfully draining away to the original as Tony and everyone else watch helplessly...
What? You thought, just because there wasn't a huge time skip or memory loss that this wasn't going to be SAD?! Well, too bad for you.
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Post by somebunny on Nov 10, 2018 1:09:53 GMT
I'm very curious where this is going. Is this other Annie a fake controlled by Loup? (How could Loup convincingly act as Annie for months?) Did Loup duplicate Annie and that other Annie had a much, much shorter conversation before Loup sent her back? Is she gonna disappear, is this a new character, so many possibilities!
I wondered about it being Fire-Annie too, but there's a few things that don't seem right about that. The booms in Neither happen only 1 page in, and we learn later that those noises were the court searching for Annie. They presumably stopped because Annie-2 showed up, so if she's Fire-Annie and is in the court, then who is this in the forest? |
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Post by todd on Nov 10, 2018 1:16:27 GMT
Perhaps the key to the answer to what's going on here lies in: why is this "duplicate Annie" business happening in the story, from a narrative perspective?
Logically, based on what we saw in the last chapter, the story would focus on Annie needing to persuade Parley and Smith to turn their gifts from Coyote over to Loup, the question of whether it's a good idea letting him have those, what effect giving them would have on Loup, and - in the background, for the moment, but there - the matter of how the Court's goals are endangering the Forest and that's why Loup and the monster army want to attack the Court. Instead, we're getting the confusion of a "second Annie" already back at the Court, which would obviously delay these elements while the story deals with this situation.
So the big question is - why has Tom put this element in? Clearly it's something deeper than just an excuse to draw Annie looking shocked. What story purpose would the introduction of the "second Annie" serve?
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Post by todd on Nov 10, 2018 1:18:34 GMT
The more I think about it, Court Annie has to be Annie, especially with etheric people around. So either, Tom is doing DS9's Whispers(great episode!) and we're seeing things from an unknowing imposter's POV, or Loup "split" Annie. Court Annie and Forest Annie might actually both be Annie, which would open up a very interesting story arc. If this is true, that raises the question of where and when in the previous chapter the Switch or Split took place. |
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Post by madjack on Nov 10, 2018 1:32:37 GMT
Theory: Coyote intervened starting as soon as Jeanne was out of the picture, back when Annie's hair was short. Short-haired Annie is from a different timeline, with something between freeing Jeanne and this moment being different (perhaps Andrew really died? or Ayilu did?) but with Annie still getting her hairclip back. In this second timeline, Loup also destroys the Court, which is why the robots are different. It has in fact been a few months since Annie was gone, but she has returned to a different place than she left... I'm not sure I buy this. Alternate universes as a storytelling tool are all about the 'what ifs' and a way to explore actions without actual consequence for the real story, but the consequences being real is a lot of what gives GC its weight (see: held back in school). It feels like it'd be too big a mess to have two worlds collide. Then again I didn't buy the doppelganger theory sooooo.. |
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 10, 2018 1:38:05 GMT
Hmm, I think it's possible Kat DID get taller.  In the first example, she comes up to Tony's chin, and that's when he's slightly bent over (to be fair, she is too, but still). In today's comic, she comes up to his nose, almost to eye level. It could easily just be a variance in how they're drawn, but it could also be an indication that Kat has aged... Kat could also be wearing heels. Which she has never done on-panel before, granted, but I do not remember her having ever worn a dress either, treatises excluded. On the other hand, my little sister recently managed to grow the same amount of height in half a year. Fake Annie obviously got a hair cut. In this comic hair = character development. If she got a haircut, it wouldn't be without good reason - eg, continuing to suppress her fire spirit, which we know from previous events she isn't willing to do anymore. To me, it is a whole odd combination, with her hair being post The Tree, but makeup applied. We never saw her before like this, and I am itching to find out what it means exactly. Over all, I am very confused. If Loup created a decoy that was not an almost perfect copy of Annie, how could Kat be fooled? If he did create the decoy with Annie's actual memories and personality, why did he not have her get the bone and water for him? The only answer I am finding right now is that the decoy was a (mostly) flawless copy, but Loup immediately lost contact to her, maybe because of the shield, maybe because he accidentally made her too real - a real human - and cannot influence her, and this one believes herself to be the real Annie as well (who knows if she isn't the real Annie, and the one that came from the Forest will go GOP when touched, or remember she was Coyote too). Add to that the fact that Coyote was able to create lifeforms, but it obviously was a very difficult and error-prone process. How should a crazy being like Loup be able to accomplish such a feat? Did Renard not notice anything different when looking at the decoy in the Ether (Or was he again conspiciously absent, just like when Jeanne was set free)? This is all very interesting and very strange. |
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 10, 2018 1:44:10 GMT
By the way, for some reason I am imagining Tony's annoyed look to mean "THIS is how you repay me for letting you wear makeup again?", or alternatively "Antimony, I had asked you if Loup had split your essence and created a clone of yourself, and you had assured me it were not the case!"
Bet that guy wasn't expecting that.
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Post by faiiry on Nov 10, 2018 1:59:24 GMT
FWIW, Kat's "dress" could be a long shirt with jeans underneath.
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 10, 2018 2:15:07 GMT
FWIW, Kat's "dress" could be a long shirt with jeans underneath. Ah...I am not very good with human clothing.
Dresses and doppelgängers aside, there is a pressing question that strangely no one has addressed yet: What's Eglamore doing there wearing makeup and a skirt, and why did he dye his hair red?
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 10, 2018 4:10:00 GMT
(4) Annie 2 is not wearing Athleisure, her clothing of choice for several chapters now I would be inclined to believe the parallel universe theory only if Annie 2 were wearing that Cool Beans shirt. |
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Post by bedinsis on Nov 10, 2018 6:32:57 GMT
What was the character growth that came with Kat's haircut in chapter 15: Red returns? Start of a year, end of summer? I would be more quick to point to her haircut in A Bad Start. Red’s haircut was more important in that chapter anyway. And we’re not talking about Kat anyway, we’re talking about Annie, for whom hair has always been a big deal. Her hair connects her to the ether visually whenever we’re shown ether scenes, it symbolized - and literally represented - a break from her emotions and fire spirit when she cut it in The Tree, and it was only when she started to let it grow again that the audience understood that Annie was starting to recover. I don’t know if you’re trying to argue that Fake Annie having short hair isn’t significant? But if you are, I think you’re probably quite wrong. If not, my mistake of course. I'm trying to argue that your observation can have a mundane explanation. Depending on how much of a real person Fake Annie is the explanation could simply be "Mr. Siddell needed a visual indicator of who's who." Furthermore Fake Annie's hair looks like it has been cut, the hair going of equal length. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 10, 2018 8:52:52 GMT
Coyote probably could have copied Antimony perfectly, right down to her fire. Or extracted an Antimony from the past/future or another timeline and modified her for a particular use. We may even have seen him do just that. Annie II apparently didn't steal the gifts and return to the Wood with them or anything else that would cause her to be locked up. Kat and Anthony are looking at the Antimonies as if they weren't aware there could be more than one until recently. So, "Loup" probably didn't have any plan beyond to trick the Court. Yet Anne II is still here, after Antimony came back and the reason for her existence is past. I doubt "Loup" could have copied Antimony perfectly and even if he could he values Antimony's fire and wouldn't have wanted to give such a thing to the Court if he could help it, even if it was just a copy. Assuming that "Loup" is making this up as he goes and doesn't have great control over Coyote's power then Annie II would be a fast and probably fire-less copy. Her will may be lacking compared to the real item. She may not have memories of anything that happened in the Wood at all after Jones took off. That problem and a lot of other issues could be rationalized away because of the circumstances; maybe they assumed the fire was the price for leaving the Court alone. Anthony probably would have been thrilled to hear his daughter was "cured." Annie II would not have needed to be an enduring copy as long as she could pass detailed examination on death, but "Loup" either couldn't do that or was unwilling to have Annie II self-destruct for Antimony's sake, even if she didn't have to see it. Though it was improbable, Antimony might have agreed to stay in the Wood so it would have been a useful feature for Annie II to be able to stick around. So, I'll guess Annie II is a normal human with some or all of Antimony's memories but probably not her fire. She can probably have kids normally and will live a normal lifespan. But Coyote couldn't create life from nothing, so what was this Annie II made from? Did he grab organic matter from the Wood or the animals in it, or did he use a forest dude? |
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Post by todd on Nov 10, 2018 12:42:55 GMT
One other possibility about the baffling aspects of Loup's plan - maybe that's the whole point. He's not thinking straight, and maybe he's coming up with overly complicated schemes that contradict each other and make no sense when you look at them more closely, just for the sake of being a trickster. He's playing at it, but doesn't have the instinctive understanding of how to be a proper trickster that Coyote had.
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Post by faiiry on Nov 10, 2018 15:04:01 GMT
Start of a year, end of summer? I would be more quick to point to her haircut in A Bad Start. Red’s haircut was more important in that chapter anyway. And we’re not talking about Kat anyway, we’re talking about Annie, for whom hair has always been a big deal. Her hair connects her to the ether visually whenever we’re shown ether scenes, it symbolized - and literally represented - a break from her emotions and fire spirit when she cut it in The Tree, and it was only when she started to let it grow again that the audience understood that Annie was starting to recover. I don’t know if you’re trying to argue that Fake Annie having short hair isn’t significant? But if you are, I think you’re probably quite wrong. If not, my mistake of course. I'm trying to argue that your observation can have a mundane explanation. Depending on how much of a real person Fake Annie is the explanation could simply be "Mr. Siddell needed a visual indicator of who's who." Furthermore Fake Annie's hair looks like it has been cut, the hair going of equal length. If it WAS cut it would be a weird move for Fake Annie, one that would probably let her family - and the readers - know that something wasn’t quite right with her. That’s my whole point. |
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Post by speedwell on Nov 10, 2018 15:22:36 GMT
We all seem to be assuming that those are the real Anthony and Kat.
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Post by shadow3 on Nov 10, 2018 16:34:02 GMT
The real one is not among them. (shhhhh)
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 10, 2018 16:47:02 GMT
Just in case no one has called it yet: Both Annies are fake.
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Post by Señor Goose on Nov 10, 2018 17:29:38 GMT
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Post by fia on Nov 10, 2018 17:44:22 GMT
(How could Loup convincingly act as Annie for months?) Remember the first page of the aptly-titled Memories of the Worthless? Loup/Coyote might have built Annie 2 from Ysengrin's memories and his own. Actually, now that I think on it ––– that first view of Annie from above? It looks like the perspective of one of the Tic-Tocs. It may be that Coyote has had a literal eye on Annie for the whole time she's been at the Court, and this is how he replicated her. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 10, 2018 17:59:31 GMT
I guess it isn't necessarily a clone. It could actually be a legit doppelganger or some other shape-shifting magical creature from the Wood. "Loup" might have ordered one to take Antimony's place but I thought with the time-stop in effect in the Wood that would be improbable. Then I started trying to figure out how he would have made Annie II. What's really twisted is that, based on the assumption that Anthony saved stem cells from Antimony's birth as part of his effort to cure Surma, I always thought the most likely character in this comic to clone Antimony without her knowledge was Anthony. Just in case no one has called it yet: Both Annies are fake. Both Annies are fake Eglamore. |
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 10, 2018 19:07:33 GMT
Just in case no one has called it yet: Both Annies are fake. Both Annies are fake Eglamore. I am waiting for Coyote to remember that he was Eglamore too. Seriously, each character is Eglamore - can you really call it a twist? |
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Post by liminal on Nov 10, 2018 19:46:43 GMT
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Post by jda on Nov 10, 2018 22:28:48 GMT
Exactly what I meant: DAnnie was created specifically to answer Tea's questions. |
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Post by jda on Nov 10, 2018 22:36:14 GMT
The more I think about it, Court Annie has to be Annie, especially with etheric people around. So either, Tom is doing DS9's Whispers(great episode!) and we're seeing things from an unknowing imposter's POV, or Loup "split" Annie. Court Annie and Forest Annie might actually both be Annie, which would open up a very interesting story arc. If this is true, that raises the question of where and when in the previous chapter the Switch or Split took place. For the sake of argument, I've always wondered about the significance of this moment, Coyote blatantly messing with Annie's mind. |
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Post by jda on Nov 10, 2018 22:43:14 GMT
But Coyote couldn't create life from nothing,? I beg to differ, unless the myths says otherwise. |
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Post by csj on Nov 10, 2018 22:51:45 GMT
I would laugh so hard if all these theories were jossed and it's actually an Annie!Bot
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