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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 30, 2017 17:27:52 GMT
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side human desire to alleviate boredom and lonesomeness. Surma is probably quite popular and therefore is used to regular attention. Whatever's available for entertainment (if anything) is probably less than what Surma is used to. The only work and perhaps the only thing to do there is collect and classify insects and that's a subject where Anthony enjoys a big advantage in competence. The food and work routine was likely monotonous. And there's literally nobody other than Anthony around for kilometers.
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Post by faiiry on Oct 30, 2017 18:37:44 GMT
Eggers has hated Tony for a very long time. In Ties, we see this vehement dislike that seems to be without cause. ("Who talks like that?" The expression on Eglamore's face is also disproportionately vicious.) I wonder if there might be a real cause for the hate, beyond just, "I'm a jock and so I hate nerds"? In fact, since Eglamore was friends with Donny, it CAN'T simply be that he hates nerds. I wonder if there is beef between the Eglamores and the Carvers or something. Or perhaps it all ties back to Jones? We still don't know why Surma hates her. A lot of unexplainable hate going on.
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Post by Runningflame on Oct 30, 2017 18:45:16 GMT
An Annie romance would almost certainly have to be someone from Gillitie. She's only openly herself (or as much as Annie can be) in the forest/with forest creatures, and completely clams up around other humans when Kat's not there. For there to even be the possibility of a human romance involving Annie, her ice queen exterior would have to thaw out a little. ... You mean like this? Or like this? (Both scenes follow highly awkward conversations about romance, incidentally.) I never realized James was so into Tony. Straight ripped his shirt off! Get a room you two! Shirts get ripped in love and war, and this is a bit of both. |
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imany
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Post by imany on Oct 30, 2017 19:14:18 GMT
Could also be my expectations were too high. The Surma+Tony relationship has been shrouded in this mystique. This is the woman he loved so intensely that he literally cannot function after her death, avoids his daughter because he can't stand the similarity of their looks etc. That's so passionately dramatic I was expecting a bit more passion to their courtship than "Well, Tony was cordial to me so I'm gonna snog him." Huh. I can see where people might think this is underwhelming, but Tony's never been presented as non-functioning after Surma's death so much as he was presented as just non-functioning. I mean, he did go off-grid when Surma died, but his inability to function properly with people present has been consistent from when he was first portrayed as a young kid. We don't know why Tony avoids Annie after Surma's death. Annie's resemblance to Surma certainly impacts it in some way, but there may be more to it. We don't have a lot to go on regarding what's going on in Tony's head, and a lot of this story is being told from Annie's memory, meaning there's some unreliability to it. That said, I actually find Surma and Tony's romance believable. Surma experienced personality whiplash from seeing Tony's secret face and became interested in him, then got to really know him. They spent a lot of time together and she got to see someone who really loves his work. It's like when Kat sees Paz taking care of the lab rats, except more in depth. Normally in fiction this type of interest gets drawn out a lot more until there's a sexual tension breaking point, but in this case Surma just went for it. This cutaway wasn't necessarily them falling in love, no matter how Anja describes it. I see this as more Surma deciding she wasn't happy with James anymore and seeing a possibility of a relationship with Tony. Love isn't always about people being totally swept off their feet, and I'm also not sure whether Surma and Tony can be described as "in love" at this point in time so much as interested in each other. |
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Post by spritznar on Oct 30, 2017 19:18:32 GMT
Eggers has hated Tony for a very long time. In Ties, we see this vehement dislike that seems to be without cause. ("Who talks like that?" The expression on Eglamore's face is also disproportionately vicious.) I wonder if there might be a real cause for the hate, beyond just, "I'm a jock and so I hate nerds"? In fact, since Eglamore was friends with Donny, it CAN'T simply be that he hates nerds. I wonder if there is beef between the Eglamores and the Carvers or something. Or perhaps it all ties back to Jones? We still don't know why Surma hates her. A lot of unexplainable hate going on. i always assumed it was just a personality clash. sometimes the way two people interact with the world just doesn't mesh well like in the scene you quoted; "i have matters to attend to" is just tony's way of saying that he's gotta go. but to james it probably sounds pretentious. multiply that by a hundred everyday interactions and, well... |
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Post by snipertom on Oct 30, 2017 19:21:46 GMT
Eh, everyone's reaction is perfectly understandable and normal. I don't see what all the people in the comments are getting so worked up about. And Tony, just don't. And I mean, don't. Ever. Just don't. Me neither. At first I was a bit surprised by the characters earlier in the chapter but honestly this stuff has also been foreshadowed for awhile |
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Post by spritznar on Oct 30, 2017 19:32:49 GMT
Eh, everyone's reaction is perfectly understandable and normal. I don't see what all the people in the comments are getting so worked up about. And Tony, just don't. And I mean, don't. Ever. Just don't. Me neither. At first I was a bit surprised by the characters earlier in the chapter but honestly this stuff has also been foreshadowed for awhile eh, maybe the topics of cheating and breakups just poke too many sore spots... also, for some reason, tony himself seems to be a sore spot... |
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Post by maxptc on Oct 30, 2017 19:42:27 GMT
Yeah, human romance seems a little beyond Annie right now. She also does well around court robots, so that's another potential but less likely option. What? No. What?? No. Annie is socially awkward and different like her father, but to a smaller degree. If TONY managed to get a human (mostly) girlfriend, Annie should have no trouble. Also, from the way you're talking, it would sound like Annie is a total loner who is incapable of feeling. Around her close friends, she's completely capable of interaction, warmth and even humor. Things with her aren't nearly as bad as you're describing. The "ice queen exterior" (hello, Jack?) is long gone. Eh, it's seems to me she is as bad off or worse then Tony was/is as far as the severity of her social anxiety, but she just does fine around groups as long as she is comfortable with the people. And while she has gotten much better, Tony has basically given Annie permanent trust issues, and that's the part I think would lead to issues. And it's not that I think she can't date humans in a "oh good what do I do way", just that she would be like Surma in being high maintenance and fickle. |
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Post by maxptc on Oct 30, 2017 19:59:17 GMT
Me neither. At first I was a bit surprised by the characters earlier in the chapter but honestly this stuff has also been foreshadowed for awhile eh, maybe the topics of cheating and breakups just poke too many sore spots... also, for some reason, tony himself seems to be a sore spot... Yeah, I kinda get the feeling that cheating and break ups and anything to do with Tony are touchy topics for a lot of people. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 30, 2017 20:53:27 GMT
There is one possible explanation for Jimmy's hate of Tony based on what happened before and then maybe didn't happen after Surma and Eggers broke up. Even if they did still see each other through work at the Court I figure they kept each other at arms' length. There is a phenomenon that sometimes happens when people break up soon after getting together and lose touch, particularly when people are still young. It's a haunting, of a sort. If you meet and hit it off really well with a new person and everything seems to be going brilliantly, but then fate intervenes and terminates the relationship before you really get to know that person as a real person (instead of an idealized version of that person) that image you retain can cause a problem with intimate relationships down the road. There's a strong temptation to try to compare that illusion to other people you meet and judge them unfairly, and that can wreck perfectly good chances at finding someone just as good or better than that first person. Surma was pretty unique, whatever else she was. Perhaps the "ghost" of Surma was haunting Eggers long before she actually died.  |
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Post by faiiry on Oct 30, 2017 21:20:32 GMT
Eggers has hated Tony for a very long time. In Ties, we see this vehement dislike that seems to be without cause. ("Who talks like that?" The expression on Eglamore's face is also disproportionately vicious.) I wonder if there might be a real cause for the hate, beyond just, "I'm a jock and so I hate nerds"? In fact, since Eglamore was friends with Donny, it CAN'T simply be that he hates nerds. I wonder if there is beef between the Eglamores and the Carvers or something. Or perhaps it all ties back to Jones? We still don't know why Surma hates her. A lot of unexplainable hate going on. i always assumed it was just a personality clash. sometimes the way two people interact with the world just doesn't mesh well like in the scene you quoted; "i have matters to attend to" is just tony's way of saying that he's gotta go. but to james it probably sounds pretentious. multiply that by a hundred everyday interactions and, well... That's true. Just in my opinion it seems a little excessive. Sure, Tony is a little...off, but there's no reason to be angry about it. |
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Post by csj on Oct 30, 2017 22:02:41 GMT
For real. Surma wanting a robot boyfriend makes sense, being attentive and detail oriented is the best way to handle fire. And for as high maintenance as Surma seems, I can only imagine what any Annie romances might entail, thanks in large part to that same robot. Tony kinda saved the pie and burned the kitchen on that one. An Annie romance would almost certainly have to be someone from Gillitie. She's only openly herself (or as much as Annie can be) in the forest/with forest creatures, and completely clams up around other humans when Kat's not there. For there to even be the possibility of a human romance involving Annie, her ice queen exterior would have to thaw out a little. Suspected reynard shipper identified. Commencing standard decontamination procedures. |
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Post by spritznar on Oct 30, 2017 22:09:21 GMT
i always assumed it was just a personality clash. sometimes the way two people interact with the world just doesn't mesh well like in the scene you quoted; "i have matters to attend to" is just tony's way of saying that he's gotta go. but to james it probably sounds pretentious. multiply that by a hundred everyday interactions and, well... That's true. Just in my opinion it seems a little excessive. Sure, Tony is a little...off, but there's no reason to be angry about it. i agree, and it certainly may be that there's more to it than that. but tony being the way he is does seem to unintentionally invite some... excessive fury if some of the comments on this forum are anything to go by... |
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Post by faiiry on Oct 30, 2017 22:21:23 GMT
 I like Surma's face on this page. Almost good enough for an avatar. (Almost.) |
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 31, 2017 0:24:53 GMT
Could also be my expectations were too high. The Surma+Tony relationship has been shrouded in this mystique. This is the woman he loved so intensely that he literally cannot function after her death, avoids his daughter because he can't stand the similarity of their looks etc. That's so passionately dramatic I was expecting a bit more passion to their courtship than "Well, Tony was cordial to me so I'm gonna snog him." Huh. I can see where people might think this is underwhelming, but Tony's never been presented as non-functioning after Surma's death so much as he was presented as just non-functioning. I mean, he did go off-grid when Surma died, but his inability to function properly with people present has been consistent from when he was first portrayed as a young kid. We don't know why Tony avoids Annie after Surma's death. Annie's resemblance to Surma certainly impacts it in some way, but there may be more to it. We don't have a lot to go on regarding what's going on in Tony's head, and a lot of this story is being told from Annie's memory, meaning there's some unreliability to it. That said, I actually find Surma and Tony's romance believable. Surma experienced personality whiplash from seeing Tony's secret face and became interested in him, then got to really know him. They spent a lot of time together and she got to see someone who really loves his work. It's like when Kat sees Paz taking care of the lab rats, except more in depth. Normally in fiction this type of interest gets drawn out a lot more until there's a sexual tension breaking point, but in this case Surma just went for it. This cutaway wasn't necessarily them falling in love, no matter how Anja describes it. I see this as more Surma deciding she wasn't happy with James anymore and seeing a possibility of a relationship with Tony. Love isn't always about people being totally swept off their feet, and I'm also not sure whether Surma and Tony can be described as "in love" at this point in time so much as interested in each other. You might be right on the spot. All the readers complaining about the stroy being too quick to fall in love might be right, because they are indeed not in love. Maybe Surma simply realized that the realtionship with James was a failure, and it was time to try something new...why not with surprisingly likable Tony? |
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Post by jda on Oct 31, 2017 1:31:42 GMT
Allll the readers complaining about the stroy being too quick to fall in love might be right, because they are indeed not in love. Maybe Surma simply realized that the realtionship with James was a failure, and it was time to try something new...why not with surprisingly likable Tony? Ive seen people marrying for less... |
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jocobo
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Post by jocobo on Oct 31, 2017 2:20:27 GMT
Eggers has hated Tony for a very long time. In Ties, we see this vehement dislike that seems to be without cause. ("Who talks like that?" The expression on Eglamore's face is also disproportionately vicious.) I wonder if there might be a real cause for the hate, beyond just, "I'm a jock and so I hate nerds"? In fact, since Eglamore was friends with Donny, it CAN'T simply be that he hates nerds. I wonder if there is beef between the Eglamores and the Carvers or something. Or perhaps it all ties back to Jones? We still don't know why Surma hates her. A lot of unexplainable hate going on. I highly doubt it was ever about nerdiness but rather about James seeing Tony's distance as arrogance instead of anxiety. As you say, James has many nerdy friends. Also I dislike the idea of stereotyping James as a "Jock" just because he's muscular. There's more to his character than that just as there's more to To y. |
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Post by faiiry on Oct 31, 2017 4:10:35 GMT
Eggers has hated Tony for a very long time. In Ties, we see this vehement dislike that seems to be without cause. ("Who talks like that?" The expression on Eglamore's face is also disproportionately vicious.) I wonder if there might be a real cause for the hate, beyond just, "I'm a jock and so I hate nerds"? In fact, since Eglamore was friends with Donny, it CAN'T simply be that he hates nerds. I wonder if there is beef between the Eglamores and the Carvers or something. Or perhaps it all ties back to Jones? We still don't know why Surma hates her. A lot of unexplainable hate going on. I highly doubt it was ever about nerdiness but rather about James seeing Tony's distance as arrogance instead of anxiety. As you say, James has many nerdy friends. Also I dislike the idea of stereotyping James as a "Jock" just because he's muscular. There's more to his character than that just as there's more to To y. I would never imply that jocks can't be complex people, but Eglamore is VERY much a jock. He's THE prototype jock, just as Donny is a nerd. That doesn't mean that there can't be more to him than that, but there is no denying that Eggers is a huge jock. |
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Post by maxptc on Oct 31, 2017 4:23:44 GMT
I highly doubt it was ever about nerdiness but rather about James seeing Tony's distance as arrogance instead of anxiety. As you say, James has many nerdy friends. Also I dislike the idea of stereotyping James as a "Jock" just because he's muscular. There's more to his character than that just as there's more to To y. I would never imply that jocks can't be complex people, but Eglamore is VERY much a jock. He's THE prototype jock, just as Donny is a nerd. That doesn't mean that there can't be more to him than that, but there is no denying that Eggers is a huge jock. Depends on what we call jock. I think knee jerk actions, over protectiveness out of caring, and chivalry/sexism (depending who you ask) are James characteristics. I guess that's jocky, but it seems more "big softy" in my eyes. Jocks are kinda one track minded about whatever "sport" they like, be it baseball, dragon slaying or women. James doesn't seem to have the hyper competitive nature to be a jock. More a big muscles bigger heart kinda guy. |
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Post by arf on Oct 31, 2017 6:52:16 GMT
Minor aside: James is wearing the same clothing in this scene (even down to the bag), suggesting it happened shortly after the current one. |
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Post by maxptc on Oct 31, 2017 7:04:44 GMT
Minor aside: James is wearing the same clothing in this scene (even down to the bag), suggesting it happened shortly after the current one. That figures, but looking back at that now, I wonder how new James is to the sexy touching.... He doesn't look surprised at all. I figure he is just distracted, since we now know the breakup just happened and blindsided him, but even in that state you'd think an immortal hitting on him for the first time would cause a fuss. What I took for distraction or melancholy might be shame. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Oct 31, 2017 8:14:18 GMT
I'm not really getting all this "Tony has no good points, so how could Surma fall for him" stuff. This whole chapter has been showing us Tony's good points around Surma It isn't so much *no good points* as much as it is *no points*. There is achingly little to Tony's personality, even when he's comparatively loosened up. After noticing your posts a couple months ago, I've been having trouble deciding whether you hate Tony so much you actively refuse to read any page he's on and guess at his actions based on the comments, or if you just hate the comic in general and simply come here to troll people. |
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Post by philman on Oct 31, 2017 8:29:16 GMT
Me neither. At first I was a bit surprised by the characters earlier in the chapter but honestly this stuff has also been foreshadowed for awhile eh, maybe the topics of cheating and breakups just poke too many sore spots... also, for some reason, tony himself seems to be a sore spot... Eh, I guess. I have been cheated on in a long term (4 year) relationship, and it was horrible at the time. But you break up, you get over it, we are still friends and you just get on with your life. I really think people get too worked up over movie romances, thinking every romance and break up has to be as dramatic as those. Please let's not descend into personal attacks. |
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Post by linkzeldi on Oct 31, 2017 20:05:59 GMT
Minor aside: James is wearing the same clothing in this scene (even down to the bag), suggesting it happened shortly after the current one. That figures, but looking back at that now, I wonder how new James is to the sexy touching.... He doesn't look surprised at all. I figure he is just distracted, since we now know the breakup just happened and blindsided him, but even in that state you'd think an immortal hitting on him for the first time would cause a fuss. What I took for distraction or melancholy might be shame. I wonder if we're supposed to read that as sexy touching, so much as Jones trying to emulate human behavior and comfort again in that scene and kind of not getting it, like by James' reaction he doesn't seem to respond to it. Then again, Jones' and James' relationship has always been like super ambiguous. |
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 1, 2017 2:05:36 GMT
Jocks are kinda one track minded about whatever "sport" they like, be it baseball, dragon slaying or women. Hahaha! If I'd had something in my mouth, this would've triggered a spit take.  |
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Post by youwiththeface on Nov 1, 2017 7:12:19 GMT
It isn't so much *no good points* as much as it is *no points*. There is achingly little to Tony's personality, even when he's comparatively loosened up. After noticing your posts a couple months ago, I've been having trouble deciding whether you hate Tony so much you actively refuse to read any page he's on and guess at his actions based on the comments, or if you just hate the comic in general and simply come here to troll people. This is like some kind of weird inverse of 'if you love him so much, why don't you marry him' and it's just as mature. And you're not exactly giving any reason as to why I'm wrong here, you're just trying to poke at me personally in lieu of actually arguing my point. We've seen a lot of bad from Tony and going into this chapter, we kind of needed some significant development to make us care about him or see him in a different light than we have up 'til now. What we got has been....underwhelming, to say the very least. The chapter we got with Tony and Brinnie was better than this, and that chapter was a hell of a lot shorter and still more interesting. |
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Post by maxptc on Nov 1, 2017 7:40:21 GMT
We've seen a lot of bad from Tony and going into this chapter, we kind of needed some significant development to make us care about him or see him in a different light than we have up 'til now. What we got has been....underwhelming, to say the very least. The chapter we got with Tony and Brinnie was better than this, and that chapter was a hell of a lot shorter and still more interesting. I definitely don't think you're a troll or don't read the comic, that was rude. I disagree with you on things but I've lurked enough to confidently think you're expressing your honest opinion. But I will say I think the amount of development anyone will get from Tony this chapter is based on how they already felt about him. If you think of Tony as a truly/mostly evil guy, nothing he has done humanized him. If you have a more shades of grey view of Mr.Robot, this chapter gave a good amount of development. He is interested in Surmas powers from a technical standpoint, he has a sense of humor that he incorporates into his information gathering process, and the thing I found most interesting is changes in plan don't trigger his anxiety, it is purely a social/group setting thing. I also liked Brinnie chapter more, but that had more to do with the tension of Tony finally making contact with Annie. I like this chapter, but it isn't very high pressure, it's one of the less tense chapters we've had in ages. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Nov 1, 2017 16:35:15 GMT
If you have a more shades of grey view of Mr.Robot, this chapter gave a good amount of development. He is interested in Surmas powers from a technical standpoint, he has a sense of humor that he incorporates into his information gathering process, and the thing I found most interesting is changes in plan don't trigger his anxiety, it is purely a social/group setting thing. I think the problem is that it still doesn't amount to a lot of development altogether for either Surma or Tony. We don't really know all that much more about them now than we did when this flashback started, and that wouldn't be so bad if this chapter wasn't so damn long. It ends up putting a lot of emphasis on events that....really don't amount to that much at all. |
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Post by zaferion on Nov 1, 2017 17:21:03 GMT
An Annie romance would almost certainly have to be someone from Gillitie. She's only openly herself (or as much as Annie can be) in the forest/with forest creatures, and completely clams up around other humans when Kat's not there. For there to even be the possibility of a human romance involving Annie, her ice queen exterior would have to thaw out a little. Suspected reynard shipper identified. Commencing standard decontamination procedures. Nah, I want her to skip on over to the forest and seal the deal with one of those green Not-Elves. I need more direct literary parallels between Annie and Jeanne. Need them |
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 1, 2017 19:39:24 GMT
Jones looks through the door like "heh, ive been waiting to catch this rebound"
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