|
|
Post by crater on Sept 8, 2017 19:27:43 GMT
Maybe I'm weird, but I always referred to to my grandmother's by their first name, WITH the honorific Grandma. Granted, I was raised to call any elderly woman Grandma, and with surnames being a thing, it just became easier to call them by their first name. The title Grandma kept it respectful. Granted, I feel like Asian culture can be very matriarchal? So that could be it. I do the same thing with my aunts, since a lot of them are unmarried and share the same surname, I call them by their first name with the honorific "Auntie" infront of it. My mother grew up in a small tiny farming village in Cambodia, where the whole neighborhood raised the kids. So everyone was a mom, auntie, grandma, uncle brother ect. Perhaps Surma came from a similar upbringing? My family does it like that, too. We call everyone except parents, siblings and children <relation> <first name>. But maybe Surma just thinks Antimony is a really, really cool name and wants to mention that her grandmother had such a cool name. ....Annie doesn't have grandparents, does she...... The page suggests that Tony's parents are dead, possibly from a freak accident during a scientific experiment, or vanished while searching for a lost civilization/the last surviving dinosaurs/the holy grail/some really swaggy insect/(continue here...) But what about Surma's dad? They can't ALL be dead now, can they? OR, it suggests....... TONY IS A TEST TUBE BABY!!!! |
|
|
|
Post by mturtle7 on Sept 8, 2017 19:58:57 GMT
....Annie doesn't have grandparents, does she...... The page suggests that Tony's parents are dead, possibly from a freak accident during a scientific experiment, or vanished while searching for a lost civilization/the last surviving dinosaurs/the holy grail/some really swaggy insect/(continue here...) But what about Surma's dad? They can't ALL be dead now, can they? I always kind of assumed that Annie didn't have any grandparents, or else she could have just stayed with them over the summers and stuff. Maybe Surma's dad died of natural causes at some point, or maybe her mother was always just a single mom. Either way, it doesn't seem to be much of a problem for her now. No idea what would be up with Tony's parents, though. And for the record: if a light conversation with friends suddenly turns to dead parents, I'd probably change the subject suddenly too. Perhaps with more subtlety than Tony, however. |
|
|
|
Post by fish on Sept 8, 2017 20:33:08 GMT
I'm with turion in that I think it's highly likely Tony's parental home situation wasn't that great. Maybe he had the same emotionally unavailable father (or perhaps mother) as he has become. Maybe even worse. I always wondered whether the subject of "why is Tony like that" would ever come up in any way or not. It's nice to see this story is spanning over three generations, at least tangentially. I wonder if we'll ever get to the next one.  |
|
|
|
Post by faiiry on Sept 8, 2017 22:03:08 GMT
Just realized that Surma and Tony in panels 1 and 3 are making the exact same face. They're meant to be. Also, I was thinking myself the exact same thing discussed above: that Tony might be an invention of the Court. I checked Chrysoprax though, and it seems this disproves it. Unless the Court has created dozens of Tony clones, and those are the "family" Tom speaks of? |
|
|
|
Post by lemmingatk on Sept 8, 2017 22:28:49 GMT
We know what happened to Surma's mother, and Tony's parentage seems to be a sore subject (leading people to presume neither are alive...or for you tinfoilers out there, that maybe he wasn't born in the traditional sense). I wonder what happened to Surma's father.
Maybe Annie has a long-lost grandfather waiting to be discovered.
|
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Sept 8, 2017 22:54:35 GMT
Anthony was probably made by the Court, it would explain why they trust him so much with their important projects. Ahem. Maybe his mind came from the forest, but his body was made by the court, like <Snuffles>? "My parents are a pair of squirrels from the forest. Actually, I think I should refer in the past tense to them, since they are probably dead by now. Squirrels do not live that long." |
|
|
|
Post by Jelly Jellybean on Sept 8, 2017 22:59:07 GMT
Just realized that Surma and Tony in panels 1 and 3 are making the exact same face. They're meant to be. Also, I was thinking myself the exact same thing discussed above: that Tony might be an invention of the Court. I checked Chrysoprax though, and it seems this disproves it. Unless the Court has created dozens of Tony clones, and those are the "family" Tom speaks of? Another nail in the coffin of my theory that human-fire elementals reproduce by spontaneous pregnancy. Clinging to that theory can now be considered necrophilia. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Sept 9, 2017 0:15:38 GMT
Ahem. Maybe his mind came from the forest, but his body was made by the court, like <Snuffles>? "My parents are a pair of squirrels from the forest. Actually, I think I should refer in the past tense to them, since they are probably dead by now. Squirrels do not live that long." Related to Ratatosk, perhaps? (If Odin and Brynhild live in the Gunnerkrigg Universe, he probably does as well.) |
|
|
|
Post by youwiththeface on Sept 9, 2017 3:41:55 GMT
We know what happened to Surma's mother, and Tony's parentage seems to be a sore subject (leading people to presume neither are alive...or for you tinfoilers out there, that maybe he wasn't born in the traditional sense). I wonder what happened to Surma's father. Maybe Annie has a long-lost grandfather waiting to be discovered. I don't know if that is true but I want it to be true. |
|
|
|
Post by zbeeblebrox on Sept 9, 2017 4:50:40 GMT
Wait wait wait...levitation??
If I had the power to levitate I would fly everywhere! I'd be obnoxious! Surma you're too sensible!
|
|
|
|
Post by Eversist on Sept 9, 2017 5:50:58 GMT
Wait wait wait... levitation??If I had the power to levitate I would fly everywhere! I'd be obnoxious! Surma you're too sensible! Yeah, remember that chapter that starts with her showing Rey she can fly (assume she's lifting herself in the ether)? She used the power to ignore Rey's confession, so that was a little insufferable...? Haha, I'm stretching. |
|
Noka
New Member
Posts: 22 
|
Post by Noka on Sept 9, 2017 6:44:40 GMT
This is a little clunky. I mean, who brings up their grandmother's name during casual conversation? "Have you ever seen the movie Titanic?" "Oh yeah, my grandmother, Ethel, was an extra in that." No one says that. Eh, not really. I call most of the relatives I never met by whatever name my parents used; for example, great grandfathers generally get first-name treatment... and I know a stepgrandad by name. Considering the topic was relevant ("Someone else in my family was REAL GOOD at setting things on fire, better than me,") Surma's probably just that kind of person. |
|
|
|
Post by tc on Sept 9, 2017 8:37:07 GMT
Why does Tony suck as a dad? He doesn't. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1018www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1019We're talking about a man who has suffered severe emotional and physical trauma. He already blamed himself for Surma's death to the extent that he no longer felt he deserved Annie's love, then subsequently endured a great deal of physical injury (culminating in *amputating his own right hand*) searching for answers, to discover not only that he'd been tricked by the psychopomps - but *had almost killed his own daughter in the process*. Following that, he discovered that he'd failed to escape the attentions of the Court, and the Court was threatening to exile his daughter permanently if he didn't comply with their wishes. He's a "Broken Man", not a bad one. |
|
|
|
Post by Bandolute on Sept 9, 2017 9:14:08 GMT
Why does Tony suck as a dad? He doesn't. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1018www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1019We're talking about a man who has suffered severe emotional and physical trauma. He already blamed himself for Surma's death to the extent that he no longer felt he deserved Annie's love, then subsequently endured a great deal of physical injury (culminating in *amputating his own right hand*) searching for answers, to discover not only that he'd been tricked by the psychopomps - but *had almost killed his own daughter in the process*. Following that, he discovered that he'd failed to escape the attentions of the Court, and the Court was threatening to exile his daughter permanently if he didn't comply with their wishes. He's a "Broken Man", not a bad one. Respectfully (and briefly, because I doubt anyone really wants to see the Is-Tony-An-Abusive-Father debate spring up again) you can be a troubled person with good intentions and still be a poor parent. I don't doubt that he cares about Antimony, but their relationship at its very best is incredibly emotionally distant. And at it's worst...? A good father does not drop off the planet for years, leaving his daughter in a boarding school after the death of her mother. And upon his return to the court, instead of seeking out the daughter he nearly killed in his hubris, he shocks her with his appearance and humiliates her in front of her classmates--then coldly chastises her for her concern over his severe injury. These are not the actions of a good parent, even though I'm sure he didn't intend to hurt Antimony. The job of parent does not stop at providing for their child's physical needs. |
|
|
|
Post by tc on Sept 9, 2017 11:34:11 GMT
...you can be a troubled person with good intentions and still be a poor parent. Fair enough, but what I was getting at was that Annie's overriding memories of Tony prior to Surma's death were of him teaching her how to be strong and disciplined (hence the martial arts) and caring for her when she was hurt. Reading between the lines, I'd argue the implication is that Tony's parenting instincts are fundamentally good. Like a numpty, I posted the following in the wrong thread, but this is the way I see it : He didn't abandon her. Neither did he blame nor resent her. He outright states that he didn't think she could bring herself to live with - as he saw it - "The man who killed her mother" right here : www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1549 . So yes, he left out of his own sense of guilt, and arguably he misread how Annie would have seen things; but given the circumstances, that's rather understandable. I don't think it's a coincidence that when Reynardine revealed the truth about Surma's death to Annie, her initial reaction (i.e. blaming herself) was exactly the same as Tony's. .... As far as I can tell the key is in this page : www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1558Tony says the Court threatened to "cast [Annie] out - banish her from the Court and the program entirely". He's not just talking about Annie getting kicked out of school; the Court threatened to expel Annie from the entire *settlement* surrounding the Court. In effect, they were threatening to banish Annie to the outside world, which for her would be the equivalent of Zimmy's nightmares, but from which for Annie *there would be no escape* for the rest of her life and Tony would be powerless to help her. On page 1549 he clearly states that because he failed to save Surma, he considered himself unworthy both of Annie's love and unworthy of being a part of her life. If following the Court's demands resulted in Annie hating him, as far as he was concerned he deserved it. There is zero indication that Tony is unaware of that. I don't think it's a coincidence that a short while ago (following Red's chastising and shutting Annie out for - as Red saw it - risking Ayilu's life) we were shown that Annie's instinctive response was to take it to heart and blame herself - to the extent that it took Kat's intervention and application of logic to prevent Annie suffering what TV Tropes calls a "Heroic BSOD". Tony's been stuck in one of those for around four years now. It's just been hinted that there was some kind of issue between Tony and his parents, and on that basis it's entirely understandable that Tony reasoned (having "failed" as a father himself) that Annie would be better off at the GC school, like he was. Also, Tony has never fully explained his motivations for the "quest" he went on. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of it was a hoep that even though he couldn't save Surma, he might be able to solve the problem before Annie suffers the same fate... |
|
|
|
Post by Bandolute on Sept 9, 2017 12:23:11 GMT
"He outright states that he didn't think she could bring herself to live with - as he saw it - "The man who killed her mother" right here" He misread how Annie would have seen things; but given the circumstances, that's rather understandable. I don't think it's a coincidence that when Reynardine revealed the truth about Surma's death to Annie, her initial reaction (i.e. blaming herself) was exactly the same as Tony's. He considered himself unworthy both of Annie's love and unworthy of being a part of her life. If following the Court's demands resulted in Annie hating him, as far as he was concerned he deserved it. Now, here's part of where I think we're misunderstanding each other. All of this? This is the result of Anthony fundamentally failing to understand Antimony. Wanting his daughter to hate him, believing that is what he deserves, is a profoundly selfish impulse. Backing out when his kid needed a father because he doesn't think he's earned the right to be her dad isn't the right choice to make for Antimony, it's the easy choice to make for Tony. His self-flagellating crusade shouldn't come before emotionally supporting his daughter. We know, of course, that Antimony did not blame her father for Surma's death. I don't think Tony can really claim to know his daughter, or else he would never have made such an assumption on her part. If they had only spoken about this, like a grieving family ought to, none of this would have happened. And I mean none of it. The cruel irony of Anthony spending years in toil, seeking out the psychopomps when his own daughter can summon them at will! He was so completely and utterly unaware of what his daughter got up to even when they were still living together, that when people suggest that they ever had a relationship approaching "close" I am baffled. He did not know Antimony. He does not know Antimony. And almost all of what Antimony knows of his true nature is either second hand, or her literally spying on his private conversations, because THAT is just what it takes. He doesn't open up to her. And all of this is this is why, despite everything he does to protect her, he is not a good dad. To reiterate, I do not doubt that he cares about her, or that most of what he does is to try and extend her life. But that doesn't actually make him a good parent, which is what my point is. I understand why he feels the way he does, and I enjoy Tony as a character, but I do not think any of his baggage justifies his behavior. It's telling, in my opinion, how easily we can compare Antimony's Red-induced guilt trip with her father's issues. Anthony is a grown adult, but in many ways he has the emotional complexity of a teenager. Not to diminish his struggle or the validity of his feelings. He's been through hell. But so has Antimony, and she's the child in this parent-child relationship. As far as I'm concerned, Anthony has no excuse. |
|
Grabix
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by Grabix on Sept 9, 2017 18:42:25 GMT
Why did Tony and Surma have a child although it would be Surma's death sentence? Maybe because Tony didn't understand the situation early enough. Maybe because Surma didn't understand it in the first place, and only Tony figured out the cause during Annie's childhood! They definitely knew what will happened, even before Surma got pregnant. Only Tony was somehow convinced that he will be able to fix it. As is indicated in page 1549. |
|
|
|
Post by tc on Sept 9, 2017 19:34:53 GMT
Wanting his daughter to hate him, believing that is what he deserves, is a profoundly selfish impulse. Arguably so if that were that case, but I don't think it is. He doesn't *want* Annie to hate him, rather he feels unworthy of her love because (as he sees it), he failed her several times in the worst possible way. If that's the way you see it, then we're definitely taking very different things from the story. Tony's precise words to Donny are "The research I was involved in took me around the globe, so I was able to pursue my own line of inquiry"; he wasn't off on a frolic of his own, he was sent away on the Court's orders and took a scientific approach to contacting the psychopomps as a sideline from the Omega Device work when he could. He tells Donny the what and the how of what he was up to, but he doesn't get as far as the *why* (i.e. what he was hoping to achieve). Tom's holding that back for now, and I'd wager it's pretty important. He never has. None of what? The story we've been following and falling in love with as it has evolved over the years? With respect, you seem to be making the assumption that Annie attending GC's school was Tony's decision when it's just as likely (if not more so) that it was Surma's wish. They may have been out of direct contact with Anja and Donny during their time at the hospital, but through Tony's contact with the Court they'd almost certainly be aware that their friends had a daughter around the same age as Annie. I'd argue it's possible that they both thought that the school was the safest/best place for Annie to be. Can she? Off the top of my head I can't remember the psychopomps appearing to either Annie or Surma on anything other than their own terms... We don't know that - I think we've seen literally two flashbacks in which Annie and Tony both appear. We're not talking "touchy-feely" close, but we know that they did take time to do things together (e.g. martial arts) before Surma passed away. How can any of us know that on the basis of two flashback scenes covering a few minutes at most of an eleven-year period? Before "The Tree", the last time he saw her she was 11, now she is (I think) 15. Young people change a lot between those ages usually, and more often than not they've become quite adept at hiding certain activities they'd rather their parents not know about, even when living with said parents. Kids of primary school age (as Annie was before Surma died) tend to take parents and/or guardians for granted - we don't tend to start noticing their human side (both good and bad) until we're a bit older. Annie's finding out about her father second-hand doesn't necessarily imply a distant relationship when she was younger; don't forget that she's learned things about Surma from Jones and Reynardine that have literally shocked her, yet for the first eleven years of her life she rarely ventured further than a corridor or two from Surma's hospital bed. It takes every bit of his titanium-strength self-control not to have a full-on nervous breakdown in her presence, such is the guilt he feels. Plus he knows the Court has her under very close surveillance almost constantly because they consider her relationship with Coyote and the forest folk to be dangerous. Tony is elbows-deep in the Court's most clandestine projects, and if he lets the wrong thing slip in front of Annie, there's no telling what the Court might do to prevent that knowledge crossing the bridge. I'd argue that parenting criteria are somewhat different when we're talking about a settlement based around a secret society which is dedicated to exploiting a fusion of "magic" and technology. On what do you base that assertion? I'm starting to think that Tony's emotional state isn't the primary catalyst behind what's happening between he and Annie. If you'll forgive a bit of speculation... It has long been strongly hinted that Tony and the Omega Device are somewhat akin to Oppenheimer and the Manhattan Project in terms of the Court's plans, to say nothing of the degree of secrecy and paranoia surrounding them. For instance, we know that Anja and Donny are high-level scientists themselves - yet even in a room with no surveillance, Tony won't elaborate on the nature of the project to Donny (his best friend) and Donny, for his part, won't ask about it. It's pretty obvious that Annie's punishment was never really about copying homework - the Court used it as a pretext to try to put an end to Annie's relationship with Coyote and the Gillitie folk, but Coyote's wrecking-ball tantrum a couple of chapters later meant that attempt failed. Imagine a scenario where Oppenheimer had a teenage daughter who had struck up a friendship with Emperor Hirohito, and was required by treaty to visit him - along with the entire Imperial military command - on a regular basis. Tony knows that the Court were perfectly willing to permanently exile a 15-year-old girl to the "outside" leaving her completely alone when she was visiting Coyote with no more knowledge than a school pupil. If he were to let the wrong thing slip in front of Annie, there's no telling what the Court might do to silence her. |
|
|
|
Post by turion on Sept 9, 2017 20:20:43 GMT
Why did Tony and Surma have a child although it would be Surma's death sentence? Maybe because Tony didn't understand the situation early enough. Maybe because Surma didn't understand it in the first place, and only Tony figured out the cause during Annie's childhood! They definitely knew what will happened, even before Surma got pregnant. Only Tony was somehow convinced that he will be able to fix it. As is indicated in page 1549. Hmm ok, thanks. Well in a sense, maybe this counts as "Tony didn't understand the situation early enough". He thought he would be able to understand the workings of her body and life completely. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Sept 10, 2017 0:19:40 GMT
Tony knows that the Court were perfectly willing to permanently exile a 15-year-old girl to the "outside" leaving her completely alone when she was visiting Coyote with no more knowledge than a school pupil. If he were to let the wrong thing slip in front of Annie, there's no telling what the Court might do to silence her. It might be more accurate to say "Tony thinks" the Court was going to banish Annie - that that was what the Court wanted him to think. I don't think it would really try that, since then Annie would be out there, doing who knows what, with the Court unable to keep track of her; she might be even more dangerous then. The problem with banishing people is that they often return - at the head of an army. \ I think there's one limitation in "what the Court might do to silence her" - it can't be seen as murdering a teenaged girl. The people in charge would have to arrange some sort of cover-up - and then hope that Kat and the rest wouldn't get suspicious. |
|
|
|
Post by Bandolute on Sept 10, 2017 10:29:34 GMT
If that's the way you see it, then we're definitely taking very different things from the story. Tony's precise words to Donny are "The research I was involved in took me around the globe, so I was able to pursue my own line of inquiry"; he wasn't off on a frolic of his own, he was sent away on the Court's orders and took a scientific approach to contacting the psychopomps as a sideline from the Omega Device work when he could. Even if this justifies his cutting off all contact with Antimony (and it really doesn't, even if he was stranded in exotic locales for the most part I'm sure he could have made time along the way if he had wanted to in all manner of ways) it doesn't excuse his leaving without telling her he would be busy for a few years. Is, is that really so much to ask? For him to have phoned her before he started this wild goose chase to resurrect the dead? To at least notify her of his absence? My issue isn't that he left, as he was already doing Court research, it is the manner in which he did it. Not that there's anything particularly admirable about his quest to pull Surma back from the ether. Especially because he abandoned even token attempts to parent Antimony to do so. So what? Since when does the importance of one's work preclude one from being a bad parent? Don't twist my words: I wasn't trying to imply that Tony WOULD claim to know her, I was just emphasizing that he did not. Which is, obviously, a rather dismal state of affairs. We aren't arguing about the narrative of Gunnerkrigg Court and what would or would not be interesting, we're examining Tony's actions and motivations as a character within that story. Of course it's boring if Frodo stays in Hobbiton, or whatever. I like adventure as much as the next person. And as a point of fact, the "this" of "none of this" referred only to the dire state of Antimony and Anthony's strained relationship. Whether or not it's more interesting if they have issues, that isn't what we were discussing. If we're looking at these characters as complex individuals with agency and analyzing them, throwing your hands up and saying "the author willed it so!" as some kind of counterargument when a character screws up defeats the purpose of the exercise. So what? The problem isn't that he dropped his kid off at boarding school (if it had to be done, so be it, even if it's pretty shitty), it was cutting off all contact unexpectedly and then returning just as unexpectedly without first notifying her and humiliating her while he was at it. There are so many stupidly easy things Tony could've done to not be a huge jerk, like not being a huge jerk in the first place. I mean just how clownishly cold do you have to be, if the first words you say to your daughter after you left without a word for years and nearly accidentally killed her is to mock her appearance, single her out in front of her classmates, and then rebuff her justifiable concern over your missing hand? Would it have hurt him to use a little more care in handling the situation? Would it have really? It's as easy as squishing a bug. She can do this at any time to pass on a message. A message like "my dad wants to ask you guys a question," perhaps.  From the way she talks about it, Antimony spent a great deal of her days and nights at Good Hope wandering the halls, speaking with the soon-to-die, and learning from the afterlife guides. How could he possibly have missed all that if he was paying anything close to real attention? Miss it, to the point of not knowing the very psychopomps he was seeking out were once good friends with his own kid? (And only weren't on good terms anymore because of the very thing he almost pried out of Antimony's soul--Surma's being, and what exactly became of her after she died.) Good effort, Tony. (No, but really, I'm glad they had at least that much. I truly am.) Even Antimony as much as admits she doesn't really know anything about her dad. Tony's own best friend is dismayed by that news--dismayed, but not surprsied.  Then perhaps he should seek grief counseling, instead of taking it out on his daughter for looking too much like her mother. I would argue that Donald and Anja seem to have managed just fine. As I literally just said in that same span of text: the fact that, like his teenage daughter, the only way he can deal with the intensity of his emotions is to completely ignore them to the point of repression. I think Donald knows well enough what the Omega device is, and only hesitated because he didn't want the knowledge to reach the ears of the girl listening in on their conversation through the blinker stone in his pocket. A situation that came about, as you might recall, because Tony's own best friend knew he was being cagey and closed-off about information that Antimony rightly deserved to know. Yes. I noticed as much when the story basically literally stated this. Tony has a great deal of experience handling sensitive information around people who ought not hear it. I don't ask that he spill his beans to Antimony about anything but the information that directly pertains to her. How he lost his arm, for one. Why he couldn't talk to hear at all during those long years. That'd be a start. I want them to patch things up. I really, honestly do. But that's going to take actual effort on Anthony's part, and he's too traumatized and stuck in his ways to make any real effort. But for now, he's not really being a good parent. He has a lot to make up for, and that's not going to just sort of happen without him making changes to his behavior. |
|
|
|
Post by zbeeblebrox on Sept 11, 2017 7:15:36 GMT
Oh god, here we go with the quote breakdowns. I'm out
|
|
|
|
Post by philman on Sept 11, 2017 7:37:09 GMT
Can we have a new thread where people can have their Tony good/bad debates without derailing every other thread please?
|
|
|
|
Post by mochakimono on Sept 11, 2017 8:13:34 GMT
I've heard people refer to grandparents as Title-Name (Papa Pete, for example). *Scoots in past the Tony discourse.* I just wanted to pop in to say I did a double-take here because one of my grandfathers was exactly Papa Pete. Now I suddenly wonder if you're psychic, if you've met me, or if Papa Petes are just way more common than I thought. |
|
|
|
Post by Bandolute on Sept 11, 2017 18:21:22 GMT
Apologies. This is why I lurk and never post. I'll go back to doing that now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zox Tomana on Sept 11, 2017 18:33:42 GMT
I've heard people refer to grandparents as Title-Name (Papa Pete, for example). *Scoots in past the Tony discourse.* I just wanted to pop in to say I did a double-take here because one of my grandfathers was exactly Papa Pete. Now I suddenly wonder if you're psychic, if you've met me, or if Papa Petes are just way more common than I thought. Well, unless you're from a particular small town in SE Texas, I think the more likely possibility is that your Papa Pete and my cousins' Papa Pete are two different Petes... Pete, Pete, Pete, Pete.... for Pete's Sake.... Pete. |
|
|
|
Post by fia on Sept 11, 2017 20:07:56 GMT
Sudden Wildspec: what if Tony is "in deeper than most" with the Court because his parents are like really higher-ups in the Court??? He seems to frequently refer to the Court as "they" and there's also two individuals, seemingly a man and a woman who want him to come back. But then again, he could just be a transplant into the Court like Eggers who was just special somehow and was brought in for his science genius. Or he could be a test-tube baby. I wonder how he's the only one that knows Juliette and Arthur are together? |
|
|
|
Post by Runningflame on Sept 11, 2017 21:04:22 GMT
Can we have a new thread where people can have their Tony good/bad debates without derailing every other thread please? There's this one; it's old but was recently revived. (cc: Bandolute ) |
|
|
|
Post by saardvark on Sept 11, 2017 21:30:54 GMT
Apologies. This is why I lurk and never post. I'll go back to doing that now. No need to stop posting... its more a "best form" thing. If you see that your conversation is getting lengthy and veering off-thread, its probably best to start a new one or find an old one that it better matches, topic-wise (see Runningflame's post). Personally, I thought your analysis interesting, if straying a bit off-topic... so, I hope you stick around. |
|
|
|
Post by feraldog on Sept 11, 2017 22:25:16 GMT
*Scoots in past the Tony discourse.* I just wanted to pop in to say I did a double-take here because one of my grandfathers was exactly Papa Pete. Now I suddenly wonder if you're psychic, if you've met me, or if Papa Petes are just way more common than I thought. Well, unless you're from a particular small town in SE Texas, I think the more likely possibility is that your Papa Pete and my cousins' Papa Pete are two different Petes... Pete, Pete, Pete, Pete.... for Pete's Sake.... Pete. He could also own a chain of pizza restaurants in Western Washington... |
|
