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Post by Runningflame on Aug 30, 2017 19:58:05 GMT
Ahhh! I absolutely did not expect this! (And I love it!) Question, though. Presumably Donald, Tony's planned expedition partner, was already in on the Omega device business. But Surma wasn't, given her puzzled reactions here. Didn't Tony have to get clearance from the higher-ups to bring a clueless civilian along on his top-secret mission? This chapter makes it look like she offered to come, he said "Are you sure," she said "Why not," and he said "Okay then." Edit: Ah, he did " go and obtain authorization from the Court about the change of plans." I'm still surprised that they said yes, and that they didn't brief her at all on what the trip was really about. |
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 30, 2017 20:04:45 GMT
(I particularly am fascinated by the thought that Annie is an agent for the Forest kinda and Tony is for the Court and I'm betting Jones is a total double-agent. I want an action sequence now!) "Jones. Just Jones." - Jones |
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Post by mturtle7 on Aug 30, 2017 21:15:39 GMT
I find it hilarious how normal Tony seems to consider these secret missions. He's still very interested in the scientific side of the trip, and treats the rest as just a minor detail which is barely worth mentioning to Surma, much less dwelling upon. I predict we're about to get a very confused and angry reaction from her, which Tony will be completely incapable of understanding.
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Post by fish on Aug 30, 2017 21:35:43 GMT
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 31, 2017 2:03:28 GMT
Sure. But, this chapter shows that they were okay with her finding out about the Omega project--at least, some of it--even though they hadn't seen fit to involve her in the project previously. Also, she hasn't been sworn to secrecy. And Tony didn't choose to look at the paperwork at 4 a.m. before she got up. One possibility: Maybe Tony's part in the whole thing is very small at the moment. He himself doesn't know very much yet--not nearly as much as he will later. So the Court doesn't care if Surma finds out a little bit--it's not enough to pose a security risk. (Though that doesn't explain the big scary label on Tony's instructions.) |
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Post by Deepbluediver on Aug 31, 2017 4:03:30 GMT
Annie's probably thinking SNAP OUT OF IT You're right- my bad. It was force of habit. |
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Post by teacup on Aug 31, 2017 6:17:50 GMT
We-ell... Going along the periodic table, bismuth is the 'last' element with stable isotopes. ...and Omega the last letter of the Greek alphabet. The final goal? The final solution (with historically scary implications?)?? (Actually, bismuth is also technically unstable - its most common/"stable" isotope Bi209 emits an alpha, but its half life is so long - 1.9e19 yrs, over a billion times the age the universe - that it is effectively stable.) Interestingly, Bismuth is chemically similar to Antimony (it is Antimony's heavier homolog, in chemical parlance - in the same column of the periodic table). Is Annie also the final culmination of some plan? Making the perfect human-elemental hybrid? (Getting wild-spec here...) These are the sorts of things I have been mulling, but not sure if it was stretching too far. It could just be the court symbol as you initially mentioned, but could be a lot more - I agree that there's something chilling about the end-state code name (and the end-state implications of Bismuth as arf mentions), and how all this is linked to Antimony via the element Bismuth and the properties of their alloys. A brief skim of bismuth antimonide suggested thermoelectric properties and that it can be used to make a Dirac point, and Dirac's theories involved the idea of etheric spacetime (feel free to explain this further anyone, I just got an inkling that Dirac points are getting towards quantuum physics and made the decision to google it, with success). This makes me feel pretty worried that there's a good chance the court intends to use Annie for whatever etheric event the Omega device is intended to trigger (assuming that the Power Station chapter was relevant). Also, remember how much more eager the psychopomps were to acquire Antimony over Surma. Let's hope Annie doesn't become a sacrificial lamb of sorts. Sorry for the rambling associations, I was on a roll, haha. |
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Post by todd on Aug 31, 2017 12:43:40 GMT
It's also possible that the Omega Device is just the Court's 24th big device ("omega" is the 24th as well as last letter in the Greek alphabet), and that the ominous tone of the name was unintentional. (Maybe not a large possibility, but still worth keeping in mind.)
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Post by saardvark on Aug 31, 2017 13:26:09 GMT
...and Omega the last letter of the Greek alphabet. The final goal? The final solution (with historically scary implications?)?? (Actually, bismuth is also technically unstable - its most common/"stable" isotope Bi209 emits an alpha, but its half life is so long - 1.9e19 yrs, over a billion times the age the universe - that it is effectively stable.) Interestingly, Bismuth is chemically similar to Antimony (it is Antimony's heavier homolog, in chemical parlance - in the same column of the periodic table). Is Annie also the final culmination of some plan? Making the perfect human-elemental hybrid? (Getting wild-spec here...) These are the sorts of things I have been mulling, but not sure if it was stretching too far. It could just be the court symbol as you initially mentioned, but could be a lot more - I agree that there's something chilling about the end-state code name (and the end-state implications of Bismuth as arf mentions), and how all this is linked to Antimony via the element Bismuth and the properties of their alloys. A brief skim of bismuth antimonide suggested thermoelectric properties and that it can be used to make a Dirac point, and Dirac's theories involved the idea of etheric spacetime (feel free to explain this further anyone, I just got an inkling that Dirac points are getting towards quantuum physics and made the decision to google it, with success). This makes me feel pretty worried that there's a good chance the court intends to use Annie for whatever etheric event the Omega device is intended to trigger (assuming that the Power Station chapter was relevant). Also, remember how much more eager the psychopomps were to acquire Antimony over Surma. Let's hope Annie doesn't become a sacrificial lamb of sorts. Sorry for the rambling associations, I was on a roll, haha. Warning, full-on nerd-out incoming... Bismuth antimonies are an interesting class of alloys. Depending on the ratio of bismuth (Court?) to antimony (Annie?), you can get all sorts of useful and sometimes weird materials, from something that conducts along its surface but is in internal insulator, to semiconductors very suited for thermophotovoltaic (TPV) applications (direct conversion of heat[!] into electricity via photons) to superconductors (conduct electricity with no resistive losses). TPV use of Annie's fire elemental as a massive power source? Dirac points are indeed quantum physics related (part of the theory of electron conduction in solids) but I think they may stray somewhat off point. More interesting (to me anyway) is your making the connection between the ether of GC and the ether of physics. The original concept of ether as a ubiquitous medium in which light waves vibrated-propagated was shot down in the late 19th century by the Michelson-Morely experiment... it proved this kind of ether didn't exist. With the arrival of quantum theory though, a new kind of "ubiquitous medium" has arisen. The vacuum of space is now thought not to be empty, but a swarm of virtual particle-antiparticle pairs which are constantly winking in and out of existence. This quantum "foam" could be called an ether (and is by a few people) but is generally not, due to possible confusion with the old, incorrect ether concept. The energy content in this new "ether" is enormous, though we don't notice it because it is everywhere, so it is our "normal background", our "zero point energy". If this energy could be tapped though... Linking the two ethers leads to all sorts of interesting speculative possibilities... do souls dissolve to (re)generate the quantum foam ether, which is in turn the power source from which magic draws its energy? Is tapping this what the Omega device is all about? |
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 31, 2017 15:29:59 GMT
I find it hilarious how normal Tony seems to consider these secret missions. He's still very interested in the scientific side of the trip, and treats the rest as just a minor detail which is barely worth mentioning to Surma, much less dwelling upon. I predict we're about to get a very confused and angry reaction from her, which Tony will be completely incapable of understanding. I guess Tony (at least in his student days) does this other stuff for the Court only so that they support his own research of much more interesting things, like insects. |
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 31, 2017 17:59:54 GMT
I find it hilarious how normal Tony seems to consider these secret missions. He's still very interested in the scientific side of the trip, and treats the rest as just a minor detail which is barely worth mentioning to Surma, much less dwelling upon. I predict we're about to get a very confused and angry reaction from her, which Tony will be completely incapable of understanding. I guess Tony (at least in his student days) does this other stuff for the Court only so that they support his own research of much more interesting things, like insects. ... Or pregnancies of fire-elemental hybrids. You're absolutely right. Tony doesn't give a fig about "their blasted Omega device"; he just uses his research responsibilities as an excuse to travel the globe and investigate what he wants to. |
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Post by psybershadow on Aug 31, 2017 23:03:18 GMT
So does Tony actually like bugs for real or is he just doing what he has to do?
Edit: Also, if Omega Device is the final device in a long line of devices, and it has to do with Annie and a Dirac Point, I am very excited to see where this goes.
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Post by teacup on Sept 1, 2017 8:00:24 GMT
These are the sorts of things I have been mulling, but not sure if it was stretching too far. It could just be the court symbol as you initially mentioned, but could be a lot more - I agree that there's something chilling about the end-state code name (and the end-state implications of Bismuth as arf mentions), and how all this is linked to Antimony via the element Bismuth and the properties of their alloys. A brief skim of bismuth antimonide suggested thermoelectric properties and that it can be used to make a Dirac point, and Dirac's theories involved the idea of etheric spacetime (feel free to explain this further anyone, I just got an inkling that Dirac points are getting towards quantuum physics and made the decision to google it, with success). This makes me feel pretty worried that there's a good chance the court intends to use Annie for whatever etheric event the Omega device is intended to trigger (assuming that the Power Station chapter was relevant). Also, remember how much more eager the psychopomps were to acquire Antimony over Surma. Let's hope Annie doesn't become a sacrificial lamb of sorts. Sorry for the rambling associations, I was on a roll, haha. Warning, full-on nerd-out incoming... Bismuth antimonies are an interesting class of alloys. Depending on the ratio of bismuth (Court?) to antimony (Annie?), you can get all sorts of useful and sometimes weird materials, from something that conducts along its surface but is in internal insulator, to semiconductors very suited for thermophotovoltaic (TPV) applications (direct conversion of heat[!] into electricity via photons) to superconductors (conduct electricity with no resistive losses). TPV use of Annie's fire elemental as a massive power source? Dirac points are indeed quantum physics related (part of the theory of electron conduction in solids) but I think they may stray somewhat off point. More interesting (to me anyway) is your making the connection between the ether of GC and the ether of physics. The original concept of ether as a ubiquitous medium in which light waves vibrated-propagated was shot down in the late 19th century by the Michelson-Morely experiment... it proved this kind of ether didn't exist. With the arrival of quantum theory though, a new kind of "ubiquitous medium" has arisen. The vacuum of space is now thought not to be empty, but a swarm of virtual particle-antiparticle pairs which are constantly winking in and out of existence. This quantum "foam" could be called an ether (and is by a few people) but is generally not, due to possible confusion with the old, incorrect ether concept. The energy content in this new "ether" is enormous, though we don't notice it because it is everywhere, so it is our "normal background", our "zero point energy". If this energy could be tapped though... Linking the two ethers leads to all sorts of interesting speculative possibilities... do souls dissolve to (re)generate the quantum foam ether, which is in turn the power source from which magic draws its energy? Is tapping this what the Omega device is all about? Haha, the best sort of post. Yes, I did see in passing that it depends on the ratio in the alloys! Heat-related applications made me look into it because of her fire elemental side, and the application of improving the amount of energy transferred made me think that yeah, it is very possible certain parts of the court want to use her TPV properties to power something big, or switch something on -which they can't currently do. Off topic a little, but when I came across these properties of the alloys, I was instantly reminded of Amberle Elessedil from the Shannara book series (unaware of big plans to use her to physically power a magical vacuum, when used in combination with a bloodfire-charged seed). If it's a deliberate reference, then I'm worried for Annie. Thank you for the summary of the ether in relation to physics. It's what I was after, and I feel like you've explained it really clearly. That current theory of quantum foam and the perpetually renewed particle-antiparticle pairs is fascinating. The funny thing about the Dirac points though is that without their mention on wiki I wouldn't have remembered to check for connections with a historical conception of ether. When you think on it, there are three groups (Coyote, the Court, Psychopomps) all trying to claim her loyalty, all having different interests in regards to the use of the ether. Honestly, aligning with the psychopomps might save her, because they want "the world to keep on turning" as the ritual goes. I really think you're onto something with souls dissolving to regenerate the ether. It ties in with Reynardine's worry over the court tampering with it - a huge power source, but if partially drained, maybe the world won't turn as it should? Also reminds me of Phoenix Requiem in regards to this. Just another side issue about souls, I am wondering where the hollow fairies fit into the court's plans, with the mandated separation from their bodies? It seems like the court would have a reason for that, as well. |
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Post by philman on Sept 1, 2017 8:09:33 GMT
Slightly off-topic but, looking at pics for the upcoming TV production of "Good Omens", David Tennant would make a pretty good Tony Carver. Hmm perhaps, he has always seemed to play more manic or high energy characters though in things I have seen him in, Tony is more of a quiet, withdrawn type character. |
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Post by saardvark on Sept 1, 2017 11:55:26 GMT
Warning, full-on nerd-out incoming... Bismuth antimonies are an interesting class of alloys. Depending on the ratio of bismuth (Court?) to antimony (Annie?), you can get all sorts of useful and sometimes weird materials, from something that conducts along its surface but is in internal insulator, to semiconductors very suited for thermophotovoltaic (TPV) applications (direct conversion of heat[!] into electricity via photons) to superconductors (conduct electricity with no resistive losses). TPV use of Annie's fire elemental as a massive power source? Dirac points are indeed quantum physics related (part of the theory of electron conduction in solids) but I think they may stray somewhat off point. More interesting (to me anyway) is your making the connection between the ether of GC and the ether of physics. The original concept of ether as a ubiquitous medium in which light waves vibrated-propagated was shot down in the late 19th century by the Michelson-Morely experiment... it proved this kind of ether didn't exist. With the arrival of quantum theory though, a new kind of "ubiquitous medium" has arisen. The vacuum of space is now thought not to be empty, but a swarm of virtual particle-antiparticle pairs which are constantly winking in and out of existence. This quantum "foam" could be called an ether (and is by a few people) but is generally not, due to possible confusion with the old, incorrect ether concept. The energy content in this new "ether" is enormous, though we don't notice it because it is everywhere, so it is our "normal background", our "zero point energy". If this energy could be tapped though... Linking the two ethers leads to all sorts of interesting speculative possibilities... do souls dissolve to (re)generate the quantum foam ether, which is in turn the power source from which magic draws its energy? Is tapping this what the Omega device is all about? Haha, the best sort of post. Yes, I did see in passing that it depends on the ratio in the alloys! Heat-related applications made me look into it because of her fire elemental side, and the application of improving the amount of energy transferred made me think that yeah, it is very possible certain parts of the court want to use her TPV properties to power something big, or switch something on -which they can't currently do. Off topic a little, but when I came across these properties of the alloys, I was instantly reminded of Amberle Elessedil from the Shannara book series (unaware of big plans to use her to physically power a magical vacuum, when used in combination with a bloodfire-charged seed). If it's a deliberate reference, then I'm worried for Annie. Thank you for the summary of the ether in relation to physics. It's what I was after, and I feel like you've explained it really clearly. That current theory of quantum foam and the perpetually renewed particle-antiparticle pairs is fascinating. The funny thing about the Dirac points though is that without their mention on wiki I wouldn't have remembered to check for connections with a historical conception of ether. When you think on it, there are three groups (Coyote, the Court, Psychopomps) all trying to claim her loyalty, all having different interests in regards to the use of the ether. Honestly, aligning with the psychopomps might save her, because they want "the world to keep on turning" as the ritual goes. I really think you're onto something with souls dissolving to regenerate the ether. It ties in with Reynardine's worry over the court tampering with it - a huge power source, but if partially drained, maybe the world won't turn as it should? Also reminds me of Phoenix Requiem in regards to this. Just another side issue about souls, I am wondering where the hollow fairies fit into the court's plans, with the mandated separation from their bodies? It seems like the court would have a reason for that, as well. oooh, you're too kind! Glad someone likes my occasional science-y nerd-eruptions. I kinda can't help it, since I am a science nerd in real life too (astronomer). Yeah, quantum foam ether-vacuum (QFEV?) is a really cool concept - real science that is truly on the border of science-fiction. I wish I understood it a bit better. By the way, there *is* a way to tap the energy of the QFEV - drop a black hole into it! It works like so: if you have enough energy in a small space, you can induce pair production of real (not virtual) particle-antiparticle pairs out of the QFEV (they do this with the LHC at CERN and other accelerators all the time). You kinda "zap" the pair out of the QFEV. Black holes have that energy in the form of their own extreme warpage of space due to their massively concentrated gravity. So the energy of the gravitational "space-bending" induces pair production. But the energy has to come from somewhere... so it comes from the gravitational field itself, which can only happen if the black hole has lost mass. So in a sense, the black hole "leaks" mass in the form of particles ripped out of the QFEV by the hole's own extreme warpage of local space. This is called Hawking radiation (Stephen H. first derived it). Small black holes eventually "evaporate" because of it.... smaller holes have more gravitational curvature in a smaller area = more particle pair production = faster mass loss = smaller hole.... and so on. It's an exponential, runaway process, causing the black hole to eventually vanish in a last burst of gamma rays. (Ive heard Hawking radiation explained in other ways too - involving negative energy or time reversal, but these never made sense to me...) Yeah, the Court and Coyote both want to use the ether for their own purposes, but the pomps just want it to *be*, to continue. Seems a safer route when dealing with something so powerful... And you're right, I bet; the pomps wouldn't want either Court or Coyote to mess too much with the ether or use Annie to somehow control it; they are all about balance. They would likely shield Annie from either (if they can). Love Sarah Ellerton's stuff... gotta re-read that. |
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Post by teacup on Sept 2, 2017 6:45:41 GMT
Haha, the best sort of post. Yes, I did see in passing that it depends on the ratio in the alloys! Heat-related applications made me look into it because of her fire elemental side, and the application of improving the amount of energy transferred made me think that yeah, it is very possible certain parts of the court want to use her TPV properties to power something big, or switch something on -which they can't currently do. Off topic a little, but when I came across these properties of the alloys, I was instantly reminded of Amberle Elessedil from the Shannara book series (unaware of big plans to use her to physically power a magical vacuum, when used in combination with a bloodfire-charged seed). If it's a deliberate reference, then I'm worried for Annie. Thank you for the summary of the ether in relation to physics. It's what I was after, and I feel like you've explained it really clearly. That current theory of quantum foam and the perpetually renewed particle-antiparticle pairs is fascinating. The funny thing about the Dirac points though is that without their mention on wiki I wouldn't have remembered to check for connections with a historical conception of ether. When you think on it, there are three groups (Coyote, the Court, Psychopomps) all trying to claim her loyalty, all having different interests in regards to the use of the ether. Honestly, aligning with the psychopomps might save her, because they want "the world to keep on turning" as the ritual goes. I really think you're onto something with souls dissolving to regenerate the ether. It ties in with Reynardine's worry over the court tampering with it - a huge power source, but if partially drained, maybe the world won't turn as it should? Also reminds me of Phoenix Requiem in regards to this. Just another side issue about souls, I am wondering where the hollow fairies fit into the court's plans, with the mandated separation from their bodies? It seems like the court would have a reason for that, as well. oooh, you're too kind! Glad someone likes my occasional science-y nerd-eruptions. I kinda can't help it, since I am a science nerd in real life too (astronomer). Yeah, quantum foam ether-vacuum (QFEV?) is a really cool concept - real science that is truly on the border of science-fiction. I wish I understood it a bit better. By the way, there *is* a way to tap the energy of the QFEV - drop a black hole into it! It works like so: if you have enough energy in a small space, you can induce pair production of real (not virtual) particle-antiparticle pairs out of the QFEV (they do this with the LHC at CERN and other accelerators all the time). You kinda "zap" the pair out of the QFEV. Black holes have that energy in the form of their own extreme warpage of space due to their massively concentrated gravity. So the energy of the gravitational "space-bending" induces pair production. But the energy has to come from somewhere... so it comes from the gravitational field itself, which can only happen if the black hole has lost mass. So in a sense, the black hole "leaks" mass in the form of particles ripped out of the QFEV by the hole's own extreme warpage of local space. This is called Hawking radiation (Stephen H. first derived it). Small black holes eventually "evaporate" because of it.... smaller holes have more gravitational curvature in a smaller area = more particle pair production = faster mass loss = smaller hole.... and so on. It's an exponential, runaway process, causing the black hole to eventually vanish in a last burst of gamma rays. (Ive heard Hawking radiation explained in other ways too - involving negative energy or time reversal, but these never made sense to me...) Yeah, the Court and Coyote both want to use the ether for their own purposes, but the pomps just want it to *be*, to continue. Seems a safer route when dealing with something so powerful... And you're right, I bet; the pomps wouldn't want either Court or Coyote to mess too much with the ether or use Annie to somehow control it; they are all about balance. They would likely shield Annie from either (if they can). Love Sarah Ellerton's stuff... gotta re-read that. Yeah, I definitely like reading these science-nerd eruptions! And it seems like an interesting field to work in! Don't have any ties to physics myself, obviously (psychology researcher), but I find quantum physics really compelling. QFEV and its ability to tap energy via black holes does seem really, really cool...when I have more free time I'm going to look it up. So very surprising to me that black holes can be used in this way. Thanks for sharing it all! I'm sure some of the things we've discussed will come to fruition sooner or later in the story. |
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Post by saardvark on Sept 3, 2017 4:40:02 GMT
Don't have any ties to physics myself, obviously (psychology researcher), but I find quantum physics really compelling. QFEV and its ability to tap energy via black holes does seem really, really cool...when I have more free time I'm going to look it up. So very surprising to me that black holes can be used in this way. Thanks for sharing it all! I'm sure some of the things we've discussed will come to fruition sooner or later in the story. Its funny, but quantum physics and psychology have some deep similarities... both can often only state things in terms of probabilities rather than absolutes. In both, the observer has to be careful that in observing a phenomenon, they don't affect the result... and sometimes its impossible not to. If you're interested explore further, don't look up QFEV - I just made that acronym up on the fly!.... Check out "Hawking radiation" and "Quantum foam" and "Black hole starship" and these will lead you to other refs.... |
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Post by teacup on Sept 3, 2017 9:37:03 GMT
Don't have any ties to physics myself, obviously (psychology researcher), but I find quantum physics really compelling. QFEV and its ability to tap energy via black holes does seem really, really cool...when I have more free time I'm going to look it up. So very surprising to me that black holes can be used in this way. Thanks for sharing it all! I'm sure some of the things we've discussed will come to fruition sooner or later in the story. Its funny, but quantum physics and psychology have some deep similarities... both can often only state things in terms of probabilities rather than absolutes. In both, the observer has to be careful that in observing a phenomenon, they don't affect the result... and sometimes its impossible not to. If you're interested explore further, don't look up QFEV - I just made that acronym up on the fly!.... Check out "Hawking radiation" and "Quantum foam" and "Black hole starship" and these will lead you to other refs.... Such a good point! Yes, there is a shared aim of discovering intangible "truths" that can only be accessed via examining the tangible and flawed. Both fields really rely on improving the tools for observation! Thanks for mentioning that. So far I've had a really, really brief skim of Hawking radiation, but am trying to resist reading more until I've got some particular work finished. Vaguely familiar with the idea of black hole starship, I think. But I'm looking forward to reacquainting myself with the area a little! |
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Post by tc on Sept 16, 2017 8:22:03 GMT
Given that his wife has already passed away and his daughter is now of an age where feelings of attraction are an increasing possibility, I reckon "wants" is an understatement of several orders of magnitude! [PS. Also loved the science posts... ] |
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