kefka
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by kefka on Jul 18, 2017 9:01:33 GMT
Hopefully this chapter ends with Annie and her father laughing together.
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Post by Zox Tomana on Jul 18, 2017 12:11:56 GMT
Annie, you aged Anja like 20 years with one statement... Jeez!
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 18, 2017 13:37:03 GMT
1. Hard to say. I mean I'm wondering why Annie never seemed to consider asking for help on subjects that confused her in terms of getting a tutor other than simply she thought that she had to accomplish things without asking for help. Annie has practically never asked anyone for help the whole time we have known her. Not even her best friend Kat. My guess is that quirk partially stems from her upbringing in that hospital. Her mother was the only to ask for help (her father being too distant to even consider asking). Her mother, though, was confined to her bed, and naturally Annie did have to (or felt forced to) solve a lot alone. With her mother gone she felt the only person worth asking for help was gone - so now it was time to do everything on her own. That the school staff did not help her when in the beginning she did ask them, and later never getting any real consequences from doing everything on her own did the rest. |
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Post by todd on Jul 18, 2017 13:37:41 GMT
Annie's past few years in the Court can't have helped matters, given all the scheming by the people at the top - which she knows about, and that some of it has been targeted at her. (Anthony himself has been the Court's tool.) Not to mention living near a forest with a trickster-god who's got his own equally unscrupulous agenda and methods.
I've sometimes wondered if it would have been better for Annie to attend a normal school, far from anything remotely etheric. But the Guides would still show up anytime anything - even an insect - died there, and there've been hints that Annie draws such phenomena to her; if she didn't go where it was, it would come to where she was. Not to mention that the people there would probably be even less able to help her handle her own etheric qualities.
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Post by atteSmythe on Jul 18, 2017 15:08:25 GMT
I'm glad we get to see Anja again! It's been a while, and she's one of my favorite characters. I hope she gets a chance to shine. What do people think, since when does Annie believe that her dad messed with her mum's mind? Since this page? Or possibly much earlier? If the latter, then maybe she expects everyone else to sort of already know? I think it only occurred to her as she said it. Ellipsis, wide eyes, small pupils, they all make me think that the second last panel is Annie expressing the shock of her discovery, that these pieces fit together for her. |
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Post by fish on Jul 18, 2017 17:24:21 GMT
1. Hard to say. I mean I'm wondering why Annie never seemed to consider asking for help on subjects that confused her in terms of getting a tutor other than simply she thought that she had to accomplish things without asking for help. Annie has never asked anyone for help the whole time we have known her. To me the strongest hint that this is indeed a very prominent character trait in Annie is this page and this page, both found in the Broken Glass chapter. Note the key phrase "I'm just fine". |
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Post by ohthatone on Jul 18, 2017 19:00:14 GMT
Hopefully this chapter ends with Annie and her father laughing together. I think by end of chapter that might be too much to ask for, but maybe a smile? a positive word? Even if it's just a false start throw us a bone here! |
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Post by Isildur on Jul 18, 2017 19:31:13 GMT
I don't understand why Annie's acting like that when she saw her father explain his reasons (and regret) for what he did. Edit: also Anja looks really old in this page. The explanations back in Chapter 53 really don't excuse the absenteeism, humiliating her in class, etc. The other adults apparently refraining from insisting he be more of a father never made sense. He's acted neglectfully and abusively, and his own guilt, grief, pain at seeing her resemble Surma, etc. -- none of it actually justifies his behavior. Being a decent parent is more important than wallowing in grief and guilt. Your kid looks a lot like your dead wife? Ok, you're entitled to some internal discomfort when initially seeing her for the first time in a while. Then push it aside and act decently. Any rational adult there should know that and tell him in no uncertain terms "Be a father or (if you're too much of an emotional wreck right now) at least be kind to her. Admit to her how you feel -- you owe that to her, and doing otherwise harms her. Her emotional well-being trumps your need to self-flagellate. And that 'how can I be a father to her -- I'm responsible for her mom's death' stuff is nonsense. Get over yourself." Don acknowledges on page 1560 that the explanations don't justify Anthony's behavior, but what does he (or Anja) do to critique it? I agree with some of the comments: It really does seem like Annie is being set up by Tom to be wrong, and it doesn't make sense. Even if Anthony somehow convinced Kat he wasn't so bad, it's hard to understand how a (always previously portrayed as fiercely loyal) friend like her would flip and develop a friendly relationship with him without telling Annie, and moreover it doesn't make sense to act surprised and all casually "Oh shucks, the kat's out of the bag, your dad and I are totally palzy walzy now!" It looks like Annie is being set up to be wrong, with some long explanation coming, but frankly, I fear her brainwashing idea (which feels like it's possibly being played for comedy -- "Oh, look at Annie jumping to silly conclusions!") may make more sense than what's coming. I might have more trust that it would be resolved in some way that makes sense, except that the previous explanations in Chapter 53 (even with Don's admission that Anthony's behavior was still not justified) did not do a very believable (for me) job of fleshing out Anthony's character. The whole "He has a side he's just too guilt-ridden and anguished to show Antimony, so that's why he acts like a jerk to only her" thing just didn't come off to me as believable character development. I'm reminded a bit of an anime some years back, Yakitate Japan, that tied itself into an unsolvable knot because it could never really successfully explain the two sides of the top antagonist -- his present cartoonishly cruel side, and a period when he was kind. (It was a show with a different average tone than this comic -- more humorous and over-the-top dramatic -- but I just mean the idea of writers backing themselves into impossible corners because they can't believably reconcile aspects of a character.) |
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Post by faiiry on Jul 18, 2017 21:23:53 GMT
I am really hoping we might get to see Surma this week in a flashback. I need another heavy dose of her spicyness. And I REALLY need to know more backstory. I have so many questions, and if even one of them is answered, I will be sated for months.
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Post by fish on Jul 18, 2017 21:36:48 GMT
I don't think Annie's being set up to be wrong. Last page did feel kind of comedic but the moodswing in this page gives me a sense of Annie verbalizing her inner frustration about her father for the first time, as some people before me pointed out. Sure, Kat and Anja aren't taking her seriously. Until the last panel, where the shoe drops. Basically I think this is all a set-up for the Anthony/Surma backstory, not for denying Annie her anger or something.
And Kat's sudden change of hearts is, well, sudden but actually not completely inexplicable. As some other people before me pointed out: Kat hated Tony, yes. But she was probably unaware about Annie's anger towards him, because Annie has been wearing her mask and Kat is not experienced enough to immediately recognize what's behind it (like Donny does with Anthony). Instead she has seen Annie's desperate attempts to please him. So when she realized she could actually get along with Anthony she might have thought this is a win-win. She gets to do some science with a smart dude and she can make peace with her best friends father. So far Annie always seemed a bit like Kat's anger was burdening her, Kat has no way of knowing that it was actually comforting for Annie (which is a speculation on my part). What I'm trying to say is: Kat couldn't have known that getting along with Anthony would be akin to disloyalty.
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Post by youwiththeface on Jul 18, 2017 22:04:38 GMT
Tony still gets so much hate in the comments section... I think everyone who was up to date with the comic when chapters 51-53 came out should reread them. I reread them. Still don't sympathize with him more than Annie, if at all. |
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Post by keef on Jul 18, 2017 22:06:00 GMT
I'm glad we get to see Anja again! It's been a while, and she's one of my favorite characters. I hope she gets a chance to shine. What do people think, since when does Annie believe that her dad messed with her mum's mind? Since this page? Or possibly much earlier? If the latter, then maybe she expects everyone else to sort of already know? I think it only occurred to her as she said it. Ellipsis, wide eyes, small pupils, they all make me think that the second last panel is Annie expressing the shock of her discovery, that these pieces fit together for her. Imagine her alone in that humongous room, brooding about her father's bitter attitude, about that "he still loves you" that worried her as a child. She may even have perceived Tony's story about his attempt to bring back Surma, as he told it to Donald, as a proof of possessiveness instead of love. As snowflake said, Renard planted the seed with "What trickery he must have played to lure her away from me", but she filled in the blanks herself. The moment she admits to Kat that she knows Kat hates her father, the floodgates open. And suddenly daddy is an even bigger creep in her mind, than he is to Eglamore, Renard and most of the readers of GC. |
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Post by Bandolute on Jul 18, 2017 23:36:40 GMT
I don't get why people keep making excuses for this guy. Even in-story characters have spend more time trying to convince Annie that her father loves her than Anthony has spent expressing anything resembling affection for Annie.
Anthony is clearly crying over Surma, glares at Annie with barely repressed resentment, and then Surma reassures her he still loves her.
Mr. Donlan tells Annie a story from her parent's past to demonstrate "small things mean a lot coming from him, he has more emotional depth than he shows," and claims that calling Annie to request the scalpel and other supplies is one such thing (which in this case wasn't even true, so). I guess, in retrospect, that story does more to demonstrate Tony's emotional impotence than anything else.
Mr. Donlan, again, secreting Annie's blinker stone away with him when he goes to confront Tony, because even Donny will admit his wayward best friend won't ever tell his daughter what happened on that night he almost accidentally killed her. "I don't know how else you could see this side of him." He's aware of how broken their relationship is, and while he doesn't condone Tony's actions he doesn't exactly condemn them, either.
And now Kat, the only person who 100% had Annie's back no matter what, is making nice with Anthony.
It seems like a conspiracy! Why can't this guy be honest and loving with his kid? For once? Instead of everyone else falling over themselves to tell Annie no matter what he *shows*, what he *feels* are completely different--take it on faith! It makes Eglamore McGrudge look like a balanced and unbiased judge of Anthony's character in comparison. At least he's looking at how Anthony's actions effect people, as opposed to just pointing to Tony's good intentions and calling it a day.
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Post by todd on Jul 19, 2017 0:09:36 GMT
I got the impression that Ahthony was more in touch with his head than his heart - thinking too much in terms of cold logic (the flashback about him and Brinnie that Donnie shared with Annie suggests that - and may be unable to emotionally connect with Annie as a result.
It doesn't help, either, that he's been manipulated by two sets of unscrupulous schemers for their own selfish agendas.
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Post by faiiry on Jul 19, 2017 2:14:50 GMT
Life isn't black and white. I don't think Anthony is a great guy or a great dad, but I do think: A) He is a brilliantly realized and fleshed-out character (props to Tom); and B) In his own odd way, he does things with Annie's self-interest in mind.
We know that he probably, at least partly, kept away from Antimony because he didn't want her to have to suffer through living with "the man who killed her mother" (though this is closely tied to his own guilt). We also know that he made a big sacrifice to keep Annie from being kicked out of the Court, though we don't know exactly what that sacrifice was or what it meant to him. I don't think he's the most loving, caring or thoughtful dad, but I think that when it counts, he'll step up as a father. I also think he didn't have to be QUITE so mean in The Tree, but this is another well thought-out aspect of his character: when internally flipping his lid, in this case due to extreme guilt, he goes to great lengths to hide it, just like his daughter.
I'm starting to realize I could talk about Tony long enough to write a thesis. My point is: he's not the nicest guy, but ultimately he at least tries to be a good father, and as a character created by Tom, in my opinion he's one of the best, most complex and flawed in the comic, and damn if I don't love to hate to love him. I'm going to shut up.
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Post by antiyonder on Jul 19, 2017 4:03:31 GMT
Instead she has seen Annie's desperate attempts to please him. So when she realized she could actually get along with Anthony she might have thought this is a win-win. She gets to do some science with a smart dude and she can make peace with her best friends father. So far Annie always seemed a bit like Kat's anger was burdening her, Kat has no way of knowing that it was actually comforting for Annie (which is a speculation on my part). What I'm trying to say is: Kat couldn't have known that getting along with Anthony would be akin to disloyalty. Heck, until a couple threads ago, I never considered that Annie might have secretly appreciated Kat being vocal against Anthony myself. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 19, 2017 13:30:32 GMT
Annie has never asked anyone for help the whole time we have known her. To me the strongest hint that this is indeed a very prominent character trait in Annie is this page and this page, both found in the Broken Glass chapter. Note the key phrase "I'm just fine". Oh, good catch! Muut is absolutely right in the first page. Also: Some people should stop prematurely condeming the author for bad writing, when they have been barely able to read a handful of pages with neither Kat nor Anja having had a serious chance to defend or explain anything. Keep your criticism of the narrative at least until the end of the chapter, for Coyote's sake. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Jul 19, 2017 19:20:29 GMT
We know that he probably, at least partly, kept away from Antimony because he didn't want her to have to suffer through living with "the man who killed her mother" (though this is closely tied to his own guilt). We also know that he made a big sacrifice to keep Annie from being kicked out of the Court, though we don't know exactly what that sacrifice was or what it meant to him. I don't think he's the most loving, caring or thoughtful dad, but I think that when it counts, he'll step up as a father. I also think he didn't have to be QUITE so mean in The Tree, but this is another well thought-out aspect of his character: when internally flipping his lid, in this case due to extreme guilt, he goes to great lengths to hide it, just like his daughter. We also know that all he had to do was tell her, call her, or even just leave a damn note that would tell her he'd be gone for a few years. ANYTHING to let her know he hadn't ABANDONED her. That he cared about her feelings at all. None of what you wrote keeps him from doing that one, simple, stupid thing. |
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