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Post by spritznar on Apr 19, 2017 23:48:22 GMT
why does the coyote tooth sword that can literally slice a shadow from the floor feel less ominous and threatening than a little vial full of coyote water? (sidenote: ew)
maybe it's just the completely unknown properties of the water, like, a sword at least you know its general purpose...
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Post by saardvark on Apr 20, 2017 1:02:55 GMT
why does the coyote tooth sword that can literally slice a shadow from the floor feel less ominous and threatening than a little vial full of coyote water? (sidenote: ew) maybe it's just the completely unknown properties of the water, like a sword at least you know its general purpose... maybe this belongs in wild spec, but you got me thinking about what Coyote water might do. It might be an excellent way to spy on the Court... a drop here or there might be able to "report back" to Coyote Central on what it had seen. If it was ingested by plant/animal/human, would said thing become Coyotefied? What would that mean? Would the thing be controlled by Coyote, or take on Coyoteish properties (maniacal laughter, strange form/color shifts)? If you boiled Coyote water into vapor, it could be inhaled or it could rain down, affecting wide areas... The possibilities are frightening! |
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Post by phantaskippy on Apr 20, 2017 1:39:05 GMT
The bone Smitty is holding looks like the same bone shown in the chapter page. The water looks like Coyote. It is probably a distraction so Coyote's bone can get into some mischief. Or the bottle. Or the cork. (Of course Coyote promised he wouldn't meddle with the court's inhabitants) And Coyote isn't a liar. I think Coyote has much more interest in Annie and her friends than he does the court. He's cool with his cousin being over there, with Annie. I don't think he has ambitions against the court, he would have squashed them already if he did. I think his thoughts are on a bigger game. |
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Post by warrl on Apr 20, 2017 2:22:25 GMT
Coyote's interest in the Court is that he finds it entertaining. Having some personal relationships with some of the people in it makes it more entertaining. Coyote's basic problem is that he has lived too long. As Jerry explains... |
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Post by spritznar on Apr 20, 2017 4:15:21 GMT
If you boiled Coyote water into vapor, it could be inhaled or it could rain down, affecting wide areas... The possibilities are frightening! what about regular evaporation? better keep that stopper in. (what's the boiling point of coyote? can you freeze it? the possibilities are endless) i feel like coyote vapor would be laughing gas on shrooms |
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Post by tc on Apr 20, 2017 8:44:42 GMT
Heh. Interesting you brought that up (as both EGS and GC have been favourites of mine for a *very* long time)...  I see more contrast than similarity there if I'm honest (you may feel differently) in the way each deals with the "immortal character" storytelling conundrum - for example in the EGS universe, it seems to be a hard-and-fast rule (thus far at least) that immortals have to "die" (meaning scrubbing their memories of that 'lifetime' and starting again as youngsters) after a certain period of time in order to avoid becoming, shall we say, "unstable" - which, given the potential power they can wield, is a dangerous thing. Contrast that with Jones in GC who appears to have been around in her current form indefinitely and has remained as stoic as it is possible to be throughout. Of course, Jones's lack of emotional affect (albeit with a [possibly learned] moral code - e.g. the way she felt beholden to Mort after inadvertently causing his premature death) could well be instrumental to how she has been able to cope. As I was typing the above it occurred to me that in some ways Coyote is the "yang" to Jones's "yin" - specifically in that he comes across as intrinsically amoral, but is driven to be protective towards those to whom he has formed an emotional attachment (and in general is emotionally impulsive to the same extreme - and it is *extreme* - as Jones is stoic). Having a look at the recently-bumped thread on 1091 I saw a few posts which referred to Coyote as a "psychopath", which I'm not sure about - he is amoral by nature, and in humans that's a big component of psychopathy - but he professes to be a deity of sorts (currently, unlike with Damien in EGS, we have no evidence to the contrary), and amorality tends to have been a regular thing with a lot of story-gods (particularly of the 'trickster' variety) since time immemorial - at least all the way back to Ancient Greece. Humans, being mortal, are ultimately co-dependent and require a certain minimum level of co-operation to survive and prosper - whereas gods are technically bound by no such restriction. However... To add another layer to the puzzle - if I recall correctly I think it was implied that Jones's existence began well before humanity appeared, whereas Coyote has explicitly stated that without humanity he could not exist. I didn't mean to go on this long (sorry!) - but either way Tom's storytelling has taken a bunch of fairly well-worn tropes, then blended and twisted them around each other until it's as complex and involving as staring up close at a Faberge egg... |
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Post by jda on Apr 20, 2017 15:17:15 GMT
Clearly trying to sneak across the bridge Smuggling himself, I see. First a tooth, then a band, a bone, a pi*ss,... |
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Post by tc on Apr 20, 2017 20:47:52 GMT
Clearly trying to sneak across the bridge Smuggling himself, I see. First a tooth, then a band, a bone, a pi*ss,... I've seen a few people say things like this, but as far as I know all he has to do to get into the Court is ask for a meeting... |
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Post by warrl on Apr 20, 2017 21:35:31 GMT
Contrast that with Jones in GC who appears to have been around in her current form indefinitely and has remained as stoic as it is possible to be throughout. Of course, Jones's lack of emotional affect (albeit with a [possibly learned] moral code - e.g. the way she felt beholden to Mort after inadvertently causing his premature death) could well be instrumental to how she has been able to cope. Or, alternatively, how she's failed to cope. IMHO she bears a more-than-passable resemblance to this description of Schizoid Personality Disorder. |
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Post by Rasselas on Apr 20, 2017 22:00:50 GMT
Smuggling himself, I see. First a tooth, then a band, a bone, a pi*ss,... I've seen a few people say things like this, but as far as I know all he has to do to get into the Court is ask for a meeting... Yeah, but if he does that, his actions are being closely watched. If he sneaks in, on the other hand... He could steal their Omega project thingy and become God of Gods himself! Or just wreak havoc and disappear. Also, funny timing for sneaking in, what with the Jeanne barrier gone... Making it easy for anyone to escape from the Court if they needed to. |
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Post by spritznar on Apr 20, 2017 23:29:02 GMT
Contrast that with Jones in GC who appears to have been around in her current form indefinitely and has remained as stoic as it is possible to be throughout. Of course, Jones's lack of emotional affect (albeit with a [possibly learned] moral code - e.g. the way she felt beholden to Mort after inadvertently causing his premature death) could well be instrumental to how she has been able to cope. Or, alternatively, how she's failed to cope. IMHO she bears a more-than-passable resemblance to this description of Schizoid Personality Disorder. i don't think that you can apply human standards to jones, despite appearances she's clearly not human. also she doesn't "display a preference for solitary activities", "lack an awareness of other people's feelings" or "exhibit significant social skills deficits". indeed, she seeks out people and spends their lifetime with them, displays an astute understanding of human emotional reactions and rather deft, subtle social skills. i don't think her lack of emotion or affect is something... broken due to "[failure] to cope", i think that's just her natural state of being |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Apr 20, 2017 23:58:43 GMT
(what's the boiling point of coyote?) Hotter than "too hot (hot damn)", naturally! i feel like coyote vapor would be laughing gas on shrooms Smuggling himself, I see. I've seen a few people say things like this, but as far as I know all he has to do to get into the Court is ask for a meeting... But it's no fun if it's that easy. Also, it's no fun if they know I'm there. Nah, Jerry's just a wimp. Also, I've always been like this, yes yes! I'm going on 10 millennia, with no memory resets, and I'm doing just fiiiiine...ha hahahahaha!No big disasters due to boredom and immense power here, no no, of course! |
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Post by spritznar on Apr 21, 2017 0:59:06 GMT
(what's the boiling point of coyote?) Hotter than "too hot (hot damn)", naturally! alternately, coyote's boiling point is when someone keeps annie from visiting (*cough*entertaining*cough*) him in the forest |
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 21, 2017 5:25:47 GMT
And now we know that Georgie did actually pay attention. And presumably Coyote knows this too. She passed. |
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Post by rosebud on Apr 21, 2017 15:02:52 GMT
At least he did not have them eat his blood and body, but I still cannot help to think about covenant and communion.
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Post by Isildur on Apr 22, 2017 13:11:56 GMT
Or the bottle. Or the cork. (Of course Coyote promised he wouldn't meddle with the court's inhabitants) Curious to know what exactly Coyote meant to say, and whether Mrs. Donlan's words are exactly what Coyote said? Cause I'm pretty sure he's the Great Deceiver for some reason or another... Yes, the actual wording would surely matter. He clearly still can interact with them when invited, and because the items were accepted as gifts by Court representatives, even after they had been given background on what the items are, Coyote may be technically abiding by any agreement not to enter the Court without permission. Any Coyote presence monitoring spells/tech may not go off, because as pieces of him from the dormant period, they are still convinced they're just inanimate goose bone and water. As for why now: Perhaps because Jeanne or her partner might previously have amplified the sensitivity of any detection mechanisms, somehow. Or perhaps in their absence it's now possible for Coyote to aetherically transmit an activation signal across the divide at some point, to remind the parts of what they are. At the risk of offense to Coyote, it might be a better idea for the court to insist on sending someone like Jones along on such visits, who wouldn't overlook such a ploy. The Court's apparent negligence in not keeping adequate tabs on kids who keep doing things with significant impact is puzzling. Wait a minute, why is the goose bone still a goose bone? Wasn't Coyote also the corpse? Shouldn't it be "made of Coyote" like whatever that's inside the bottle? Not all of him may have woken up. That may have been the entire purpose of his exercise - to create still-dormant, temporarily amnesiac pieces. (The fact that the water looks like Coyote is the only thing that so far throws a wrench in my guesses. If it's even visually identifiable as Coyote, one might expect it to set off any detectors.) First post of mine here, BTW. I notice above that quoting inserts br tags. Those aren't actually necessary to set normal line returns when *entering* text here, are they? Test Test Test It's puzzling, because most board systems don't insert those br tags, and instead just store line returns. (Or if they do escape line returns in their internal representation, don't show that to the user.) |
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Post by spritznar on Apr 22, 2017 14:43:14 GMT
First post of mine here, BTW. I notice above that quoting inserts br tags. Those aren't actually necessary to set normal line returns when *entering* text here, are they? Test Test Test It's puzzling, because most board systems don't insert those br tags, and instead just store line returns. (Or if they do escape line returns in their internal representation, don't show that to the user.) is that the "& n b s p ;"? i noticed that, but it doesn't always appear when i'm quoting people... i haven't figured out a pattern yet |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 22, 2017 16:24:11 GMT
First post of mine here, BTW. I notice above that quoting inserts br tags. Those aren't actually necessary to set normal line returns when *entering* text here, are they? Test Test Test It's puzzling, because most board systems don't insert those br tags, and instead just store line returns. (Or if they do escape line returns in their internal representation, don't show that to the user.) is that the "& n b s p ;"? i noticed that, but it doesn't always appear when i'm quoting people... i haven't figured out a pattern yet Maybe Coyote runs Proboards. Those pesky links sometimes get stuck between his teeth and he loses focus on formatting. |
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Post by todd on Apr 22, 2017 23:19:32 GMT
At the risk of offense to Coyote, it might be a better idea for the court to insist on sending someone like Jones along on such visits, who wouldn't overlook such a ploy. The Court's apparent negligence in not keeping adequate tabs on kids who keep doing things with significant impact is puzzling. Yes, the Court does that a lot - for an organization with supposedly a great deal of competence and surveillance ability, you'd think it would notice those things and do something about them. (Not only the doings of Annie and Co., but the robot scheme in "The Torn Sea" as well.) Either the Court's not so good at keeping track of things after all, or else it allows those events to happen as part of its agenda, choosing not to interfere (except for using Anthony to ground Annie - which backfired on them once Coyote knocked one of their buildings down). Of course, we do know that they decided to do nothing after finding out about Shadow 2. |
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Post by csj on Apr 23, 2017 2:33:13 GMT
Now we know the real reason they never recruited another medium. They got tired of being summoned for storytime.
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Post by OGRuddawg on Apr 26, 2017 4:32:08 GMT
Heh. Interesting you brought that up (as both EGS and GC have been favourites of mine for a *very* long time)... I see more contrast than similarity there if I'm honest (you may feel differently) in the way each deals with the "immortal character" storytelling conundrum - for example in the EGS universe, it seems to be a hard-and-fast rule (thus far at least) that immortals have to "die" (meaning scrubbing their memories of that 'lifetime' and starting again as youngsters) after a certain period of time in order to avoid becoming, shall we say, "unstable" - which, given the potential power they can wield, is a dangerous thing. Contrast that with Jones in GC who appears to have been around in her current form indefinitely and has remained as stoic as it is possible to be throughout. Of course, Jones's lack of emotional affect (albeit with a [possibly learned] moral code - e.g. the way she felt beholden to Mort after inadvertently causing his premature death) could well be instrumental to how she has been able to cope. As I was typing the above it occurred to me that in some ways Coyote is the "yang" to Jones's "yin" - specifically in that he comes across as intrinsically amoral, but is driven to be protective towards those to whom he has formed an emotional attachment (and in general is emotionally impulsive to the same extreme - and it is *extreme* - as Jones is stoic). Having a look at the recently-bumped thread on 1091 I saw a few posts which referred to Coyote as a "psychopath", which I'm not sure about - he is amoral by nature, and in humans that's a big component of psychopathy - but he professes to be a deity of sorts (currently, unlike with Damien in EGS, we have no evidence to the contrary), and amorality tends to have been a regular thing with a lot of story-gods (particularly of the 'trickster' variety) since time immemorial - at least all the way back to Ancient Greece. Humans, being mortal, are ultimately co-dependent and require a certain minimum level of co-operation to survive and prosper - whereas gods are technically bound by no such restriction. However... To add another layer to the puzzle - if I recall correctly I think it was implied that Jones's existence began well before humanity appeared, whereas Coyote has explicitly stated that without humanity he could not exist. I didn't mean to go on this long (sorry!) - but either way Tom's storytelling has taken a bunch of fairly well-worn tropes, then blended and twisted them around each other until it's as complex and involving as staring up close at a Faberge egg... I think the question of a non-traditional lifespan is handled well in Gunnerkrigg. Each being is kind of unique in personality and lifespan, so there isn't a hard and fast rule to put on the majority of the cast. I suspect that a ling-lived chaos God like Coyote is not really a psychopath. Trickster and a regular troll? Yes. Does the result of his actions have serious consequences? Very much so (If he hadn't manipulated Renard and given him the body snatching power, Renard probably could not have killed Daniel and been imprisoned by the Court). But he is the de facto leader of the forest, so he knows how to weild his power effectively and maintain some order in a diverse, large group of subjects, despite his penchant for chaos and entertainment. He definitely has some empathy towards those he cares about and leads, so I doubt he could be considered a psychopath or sociopath under the current medical definition. |
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Post by jda on Apr 26, 2017 11:42:36 GMT
Smuggling himself, I see. First a tooth, then a band, a bone, a pi*ss,... I've seen a few people say things like this, but as far as I know all he has to do to get into the Court is ask for a meeting... What fun would Be in that? |
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Post by tc on May 4, 2017 8:48:30 GMT
(If he hadn't manipulated Renard and given him the body snatching power, Renard probably could not have killed Daniel and been imprisoned by the Court) Ah, but that's where I think things get interesting... We know that Coyote promised not to directly interfere with the Court, however the question of whether the Court made any reciprocal promise has not been answered as yet. We know that the Court assigned Surma the task of "seducing" Reynard, and it's not a huge leap of logic to assume that Coyote may have seen that action as breaking the spirit of the agreement and/or an aggressive move on the part of the Court. By granting Reynard that power, Coyote was scrupulously holding to his promise not to interfere with the Court directly, but at the same time giving Reynard the means to use the Court's own shenanigans against them should Reynard (of his own free will) decide to use the power to pursue Surma. Your archetypal "villain" will tend to plot and scheme in a very precise manner, but that's not Coyote's way - in D&D terms he's an almost perfect embodiment of "Chaotic Neutral". If I recall correctly, Reynard has said that he was unaware his power would cause the death of the original host until the first time he attempted to use it (on the unfortunate Daniel). For that matter, we don't know if Coyote is aware of the specific limitations of the powers he grants until the recipients use them. As such, we've never seen Coyote even attempt to formulate a plan against the Court, as opposed to engineering agents of potential havoc (letting the chips fall where they may) - and even then only when provoked; I'm fairly sure that none of Coyote's gambits (that we've seen) have been put in play without a prior attempt by the Court to influence the Wood. What fun would Be in that? Fair point, but Coyote's not known for expending effort unless he has to. |
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Post by Runningflame on May 6, 2017 17:46:18 GMT
If I recall correctly, Reynard has said that he was unaware his power would cause the death of the original host until the first time he attempted to use it (on the unfortunate Daniel). It seems that he tried it on a rabbit first. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2017 22:48:51 GMT
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ST13R
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Post by ST13R on May 7, 2017 14:19:55 GMT
Ooh, look at Coyote's eyes though, he's so hypnotising convincing.. |
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