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Post by fish on Nov 21, 2016 15:09:25 GMT
Wow, Kat's nonsense-filter is really powerful. I think that what she sees is as valid as Annie's perceptions, just more straightforward. As in, she sees something closer to what's actually happening without the obfuscation of the ether's metaphors. Remember, her clear-eyed nature let her operate the "Final Record Player" without any difficulty, and it's revealed by the vampire in See Ya that their etheric illusions really are smoke and mirrors. [...] Hah, I was actually trying to say the same thing, but only focused on emphasising my surprise at how persistent her power of reduction is. (When's the telepathy app finally coming out... orz). I have absolutely the same interpretation of her... power? What I find interesting as well: at first glance this, and the RotD stuff, looks as if Kat is indeed lacking some sort of power that Annie has. But Kat is clearly interacting AND affecting the ether, and in a less roundabout way. I see her power now almost on par with Smitty I think, if not even higher. Although quantifying and comparing etheric abilities is a bit silly of course. |
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Post by rafk on Nov 21, 2016 15:13:26 GMT
Annie's view of the ether is more beautiful and grants insights otherwise invisible, but Kat's view is infinitely more practical, especially for problem-solving.
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Post by ctso74 on Nov 21, 2016 16:07:17 GMT
I'm hoping this revelation will push Kat to question her parents. Of the thousands of Court buildings, Anja's old lab just happens to have Diego's bots in the basement? Anja's reluctance, to give Kat the lab keys, could have been her not wanting Kat to grow up, but it seems awfully coincidental. Kat's parents clearly love her, but that doesn't mean that dubious decisions weren't made before she was even born.
I don't recall Kat really pushing her on the lab issue.
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Post by bgb16999 on Nov 21, 2016 16:28:08 GMT
Now this seems even more likely, as Kat sees the intricate puzzle as a simple lock. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Nov 21, 2016 16:37:39 GMT
Why is Annie so scared of Kat though? She has seen a lot of weird stuff in the ether. All the images of Kat's mecha-angel form that we have seen have gone to the edge of the panel and continue beyond it. The implication, to me, is that her etheric form stretches to infinity. I'd find that pretty terrifying. |
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 21, 2016 16:40:38 GMT
Why is Annie so scared of Kat though? She has seen a lot of weird stuff in the ether. All the images of Kat's mecha-angel form that we have seen have gone to the edge of the panel and continue beyond it. The implication, to me, is that her etheric form stretches to infinity. I'd find that pretty terrifying. To be fair, Annie's hair usually did that too. Before the Haircut of Doom, that is. Now this seems even more likely, as Kat sees the intricate puzzle as a simple lock. I've been wondering for a while if that would happen. I suspected that Annie was trapped inside of the lock itself, but unable to see the complete structure to manipulate it. I'm hoping this revelation will push Kat to question her parents. Of the thousands of Court buildings, Anja's old lab just happens to have Diego's bots in the basement? Anja's reluctance, to give Kat the lab keys, could have been her not wanting Kat to grow up, but it seems awfully coincidental. Kat's parents clearly love her, but that doesn't mean that dubious decisions weren't made before she was even born. I don't recall Kat really pushing her on the lab issue. I wonder if the Donlans were playing around with genetic/etheric alteration of an embryo. Perhaps with assistance from a doctor that they knew. Perhaps with support from the Court. Perhaps Kat is the Omega Device. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Nov 21, 2016 17:00:06 GMT
All the images of Kat's mecha-angel form that we have seen have gone to the edge of the panel and continue beyond it. The implication, to me, is that her etheric form stretches to infinity. I'd find that pretty terrifying. To be fair, Annie's hair usually did that too. Before the Haircut of Doom, that is. True. Though hair is, perhaps, less terrifying. When it's not on fire, anyway. Kat's form is completely different, though. It's not the flowing, shifting, and somewhat undefined form of Coyote, or the regular pattern of Annie's hair. Kat's form has structure. This is not something Annie has ever seen before in the ether. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 21, 2016 17:03:25 GMT
I'm on mobile, so I can't link references now, but times that I can think of: practicing with anja and the blinker stone in the warehouse, at least twice in residential (on the tram over, and during the escape switcharoo), and arguably on the rooftop when Annie came back from the forest and was trying to get Kat to 'look inside herself' on the rooftop. I don't think Kat was explicitly shown in any of these cases, but she was right in Annie's presence, and this metallic form is...impressive. ETA: oh what the heck, I love you guys, I'll struggle with the links for you Blinking, standing next to Kat: gunnerkrigg.com/?p=510Residential, next to Kat on the tram (you can see the tram in the bottom of the previous page): gunnerkrigg.com/?p=598Residential, explicit Kat in the ether! gunnerkrigg.com/?p=624There's some potential in Coward Heart and later, but that's the smoking gun, so I'm going to stop there |
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 21, 2016 17:05:27 GMT
I'm hoping this revelation will push Kat to question her parents. Of the thousands of Court buildings, Anja's old lab just happens to have Diego's bots in the basement? Anja's reluctance, to give Kat the lab keys, could have been her not wanting Kat to grow up, but it seems awfully coincidental. Kat's parents clearly love her, but that doesn't mean that dubious decisions weren't made before she was even born. I don't recall Kat really pushing her on the lab issue. Oh, I'm sure there's a basement full of Diego relics in every warehouse.  |
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 21, 2016 17:10:48 GMT
Why is Annie so scared of Kat though? She has seen a lot of weird stuff in the ether. All the images of Kat's mecha-angel form that we have seen have gone to the edge of the panel and continue beyond it. The implication, to me, is that her etheric form stretches to infinity. I'd find that pretty terrifying. Also, I recall that Annie described Coyote as terrifying upon seeing him, but they had met in meatspace first, and she knew she was meeting a god. Kat's presence isn't so overwhelming, but it appears to be as vast as some of the most significant esthetic powers we've seen so far. |
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Earin
Full Member
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Post by Earin on Nov 21, 2016 17:24:46 GMT
[...] Also. I just realized, holy crap. Has Kat ever seen Coyote in person?? What would her no-nonsense-filter see when she looks at the Trickster God??Maybe she'd see him as just a coyote. His original form. Kat is truly a goddess of reductionism. I'd guess either this, or something simple but representative. I tried to think of a few options but my best guess is a coyote wearing a coyote mask. (But if you grab the mask and try to take it off, the coyote disappears) |
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Grabix
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Post by Grabix on Nov 21, 2016 17:57:02 GMT
Hm... Kat can see etheric creatures, and they looks kind-of the same as for Annie. In ROTD she has seen just disguised people, because that was just human creation, powered by Ether. Is that how it's work? This arrow is as well human creation powered by Ether. Annie sees maze. So maybe that is how the arrow works, in use Ether to confuse people and convince them that they are trapped. But I as well like theory that she just sees everything in most simplistic way. Internal Ockham Razor. However handcuffs looks relatively fancy. I'm on mobile, so I can't link references now, but times that I can think of: practicing with anja and the blinker stone in the warehouse, at least twice in residential (on the tram over, and during the escape switcharoo), and arguably on the rooftop when Annie came back from the forest and was trying to get Kat to 'look inside herself' on the rooftop. I don't think Kat was explicitly shown in any of these cases, but she was right in Annie's presence, and this metallic form is...impressive. But in these scenarios Kat was inside here body. Look at this pages: 925, 945, 946 to gain deeper insight. |
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Post by ohthatone on Nov 21, 2016 18:04:27 GMT
just now noticing the "113"
I don't remember, but Kat's robot-deity manifestation didn't start to appear until after she started futzing with Diego's stuff, is this right? will have to go back through the archives to remember. my point is that just as Cotoye's thought experiment suggests that humans have the ability to create gods, perhaps Diego's robots have also become advanced enough to create gods. They can already identify abstract feelings like beauty and love.
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 21, 2016 18:13:01 GMT
Hm... Kat can see etheric creatures, and they looks kind-of the same as for Annie. In ROTD she has seen just disguised people, because that was just human creation, powered by Ether. Is that how it's work? This arrow is as well human creation powered by Ether. Annie sees maze. So maybe that is how the arrow works, in use Ether to confuse people and convince them that they are trapped. But I as well like theory that she just sees everything in most simplistic way. Internal Ockham Razor. However handcuffs looks relatively fancy. I'm on mobile, so I can't link references now, but times that I can think of: practicing with anja and the blinker stone in the warehouse, at least twice in residential (on the tram over, and during the escape switcharoo), and arguably on the rooftop when Annie came back from the forest and was trying to get Kat to 'look inside herself' on the rooftop. I don't think Kat was explicitly shown in any of these cases, but she was right in Annie's presence, and this metallic form is...impressive. But in these scenarios Kat was inside here body. Look at this pages: 925, 945, 946 to gain deeper insight. That's a really good point. Perhaps Kat simply has no ability to draw her spirit out. I seem to remember a scene where Rey also looked grey, when Annie was experimenting, until he chose to come out of his body. |
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Post by zaferion on Nov 21, 2016 19:49:23 GMT
Also. I just realized, holy crap. Has Kat ever seen Coyote in person?? What would her no-nonsense-filter see when she looks at the Trickster God??I always figured she'd see Coyote as we see him in the comic. There was no indication that she saw Muut or Ketrak any differently than Annie. She saw Muut and Ketrak in the real world, though, not in the ether. Similarly, she saw Anja's computer stuff in the real world and didn't understand it. If she poked her head in the proverbial open door of the ether when a Psychopomp was around or her mom was using that computer thing, who knows what she would see. What I'm really interested in is what she would have seen if she went with Anthony to that other dimension. Why is Annie so scared of Kat though? She has seen a lot of weird stuff in the ether. All the images of Kat's mecha-angel form that we have seen have gone to the edge of the panel and continue beyond it. The implication, to me, is that her etheric form stretches to infinity. I'd find that pretty terrifying. Mecha Kat has legs and feet in this one. |
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Grabix
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Post by Grabix on Nov 21, 2016 19:58:00 GMT
What I'm really interested in is what she would have seen if she went with Anthony to that other dimension. What other dimension? Also. A wonder if Court know something about Kat. Not by spying on her activity with robots, but in general, from the beginning. Hm... maybe they could just ask Jack ...  |
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Post by grahamf on Nov 21, 2016 20:07:31 GMT
I'm betting Kat would see Coyote as either moon-moon or as a native kid with a Coyote mask.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 20:11:42 GMT
The most startling invariant is hidden in plain sight: Annie doesn't even have her fiery hair from Kat's perspective... but she does have the cut on her face (which Kat has never seen before).
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 21, 2016 20:20:46 GMT
The most startling invariant is hidden in plain sight: Annie doesn't even have her fiery hair from Kat's perspective... but she does have the cut on her face (which Kat has never seen before). Hah, I just came back to make this exact observation. How interesting |
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Post by calpal on Nov 21, 2016 20:45:01 GMT
just now noticing the "113" I don't remember, but Kat's robot-deity manifestation didn't start to appear until after she started futzing with Diego's stuff, is this right? will have to go back through the archives to remember. my point is that just as Cotoye's thought experiment suggests that humans have the ability to create gods, perhaps Diego's robots have also become advanced enough to create gods. They can already identify abstract feelings like beauty and love. My recommendations for Chapters would be "A Bad Start" and "Give and Take". The first one shows the first appearance of her symbol in-comic - which is later verified and accepted by the Realm of the Dead. In the next one, the Robots witness her performing her first "miracles": she read the code for the robots that no one else should've been able to comprehend, and even managed to bring one of Diego's old machines back to life. These two chapters, in particular, also predate "Divine", which is the one where Zimmy first sees Kat as the mecha-deity. Those two events in particular, I would argue, are her first steps towards some etheric attachment and her beginning to ascension. EDIT: Senior Member post get! Woo! |
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Post by bgb16999 on Nov 21, 2016 22:19:49 GMT
But Annie is not afraid of monsters is my point. Even back at the very beginning with Basil the minotaur. Looks for her are irrelevant re the evilness of the person. Or so I understood There's monsters, and then there's eldritch metallic humanoid insect things that distort everything and seem to go on forever. However, those were all etheric creatures. Right now, Annie is in an artificial pocket-dimension created by Diego and the Court. What she sees is a giant robot. It's not a huge leap for her to guess that the giant robot is a part of the prison, created by Diego to stop any powerful ether-users like herself from destroying the device. |
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Post by Eversist on Nov 21, 2016 23:33:26 GMT
Do you guys thing that the device Kat made fits into the keyhole on the handcuffy thing? Or is that too obvious?
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Post by freeformline on Nov 22, 2016 1:07:10 GMT
Do you guys thing that the device Kat made fits into the keyhole on the handcuffy thing? Or is that too obvious? That would certainly be tidy, but it doesn't look like she is still holding it. I would guess it remained in the dinghy with their mundane bodies. |
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Post by zaferion on Nov 22, 2016 5:47:00 GMT
The most startling invariant is hidden in plain sight: Annie doesn't even have her fiery hair from Kat's perspective... but she does have the cut on her face (which Kat has never seen before). Oh jeez I didn't even notice that I feel so dumb. I feel even dumber because I just noticed that the comic doesn't have the borderless ether thing goin on. |
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Post by philman on Nov 22, 2016 8:28:04 GMT
Also, here's a small "power stats" speculation: From a certain point of view one could now say: Annie < Kat < Zimmy. Because Annie is easily fooled by the ether, Kat doesn't even perceive whatever is supposed to fool you, but Zimmy can enforce etheric distortions onto Kat.Can she? In the chapter where Zimmy is going into Annie's dreams she seems surprised that Kat can't see them too. Maybe most people would have been drawn into Zimmy's visions too, but Kat could only see what was "Really there", i.e. Zimmy sitting giggling like a dope. Maybe Kat is immune to Zimmingham too. Plus remember this is the first chapter where we see Mecha-robot-god-Kat as well. |
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Post by fish on Nov 22, 2016 9:11:31 GMT
Also, here's a small "power stats" speculation: From a certain point of view one could now say: Annie < Kat < Zimmy. Because Annie is easily fooled by the ether, Kat doesn't even perceive whatever is supposed to fool you, but Zimmy can enforce etheric distortions onto Kat.Can she? In the chapter where Zimmy is going into Annie's dreams she seems surprised that Kat can't see them too. Maybe most people would have been drawn into Zimmy's visions too, but Kat could only see what was "Really there", i.e. Zimmy sitting giggling like a dope. Maybe Kat is immune to Zimmingham too. Plus remember this is the first chapter where we see Mecha-robot-god-Kat as well. I was mainly talking about The Torn Sea where Kat participated in the Zimmingham shenanigans just like everyone else. Divine and other cases where Kat meets Zimmy probably were not "level 6 etheric distortions". But I know that scaling their powers is not really possible, haha. |
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Post by speedwell on Nov 22, 2016 11:21:01 GMT
I wonder whether the lockpicks hidden in the wolf-doll are going to come into play now.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Nov 22, 2016 11:33:42 GMT
The most startling invariant is hidden in plain sight: Annie doesn't even have her fiery hair from Kat's perspective... but she does have the cut on her face (which Kat has never seen before). I really want to know what Annie's fire power would look like from her perspective. Like, she just sees Annie shooting a butane torch or something. |
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Post by Nepycros on Nov 22, 2016 11:58:14 GMT
The most startling invariant is hidden in plain sight: Annie doesn't even have her fiery hair from Kat's perspective... but she does have the cut on her face (which Kat has never seen before). I really want to know what Annie's fire power would look like from her perspective. Like, she just sees Annie shooting a butane torch or something. Well, in the physical world, Kat has seen Annie conjure fire from nothing; she would likely take the most precise visual and just see Annie creating fire the way she always does. The interesting thing about Kat-vision is she never takes in new information or concepts; she's simply applying existing knowledge to how she interacts with the ether. |
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fanofts
Junior Member
Watching gunnerkrigg.fandom.com
Posts: 64
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Post by fanofts on Nov 22, 2016 14:13:51 GMT
What I'm really interested in is what she would have seen if she went with Anthony to that other dimension. What other dimension? Also. A wonder if Court know something about Kat. Not by spying on her activity with robots, but in general, from the beginning. Hm... maybe they could just ask Jack ... zaferion's probably referring to where those "afterlife guides" dwelt: |
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