|
|
Post by saardvark on Oct 16, 2016 11:15:50 GMT
Also, the other thing that I just noticed is that this is the first time Jeanne has spoken outside of the ether. I wonder if she could speak before, or whether this the illusion finally allowed her to communicate. If so, perhaps there can be a peaceful resolution (though I will admit I find this doubtful). Perhaps, because she just has had her most lengthy conversation in a few hundred years with Parley in the ether, the unaccustomed use of her voice on the "real plane" has been "loosened up". |
|
Noka
New Member
Posts: 22 
|
Post by Noka on Oct 16, 2016 15:09:59 GMT
I'm curious why everyone thinks this is a 100% cop-out.
Let me remind you: Jeanne inflicts wounds in aether. These do not heal. (Annie is a great example of this.) This is uncommon - nobody recognizes or realizes this happened to Annie other than everyone's favorite aetherical abomination, Zimmy.
Jeanne just facially shanked this fairy in the aether. And the illusion did fall, COMPLETELY. If she still wanted to hold Jeanne, even at risk of death, it probably wouldn't have.
I think that we aren't going to see Blue use her illusions again. I think she might straight up no longer be able to use the aether like the others can. Red doesn't realize because she's legitimately never seen this happen before.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 15:37:43 GMT
I'm curious why everyone thinks this is a 100% cop-out. Let me remind you: Jeanne inflicts wounds in aether. These do not heal. (Annie is a great example of this.) This is uncommon - nobody recognizes or realizes this happened to Annie other than everyone's favorite aetherical abomination, Zimmy. Jeanne just facially shanked this fairy in the aether. And the illusion did fall, COMPLETELY. If she still wanted to hold Jeanne, even at risk of death, it probably wouldn't have. I think that we aren't going to see Blue use her illusions again. I think she might straight up no longer be able to use the aether like the others can. Red doesn't realize because she's legitimately never seen this happen before. I think that's a very interesting concept for where this is going! I'm not sure if that's how it will turn out--depending on how the illusion ability works, the etheric image of Blue might not have been her real etheric body--but that would be a significant non-death consequence to this event. |
|
QuotePilgrim
Full Member
Behind my door, there are twelve other doors.
Posts: 142
|
Post by QuotePilgrim on Oct 16, 2016 16:09:48 GMT
And the illusion did fall, COMPLETELY. Except for the fact we have absolutely no evidence that it did. As far as we know, Jeanne’s still under the illusion. Honestly, I think it’s more likely the illusion didn’t fall than that it did, because as someone else pointed out (I’m too lazy to check who it was), if Jeanne isn’t inside the illusion here, then why is she confused that she missed? If she were outside the illusion, she would know exactly why she missed, and would have no reason to be so confused. |
|
|
|
Post by puntino on Oct 16, 2016 17:06:01 GMT
Thank God Smitty is there with them. He's probably the next target, after Jeanne recollects herself and thinks for a few seconds. She seems to be extremely observant of her surroundings, so noticing that there is some dude pretty much doing absolutely nothing could strike her as suspicious enough. its not obvious that Smitty is "written into" Blue's illusion, so she may not be able to see him there. He and Kat were both in Jeanne's line of sight (in reality, pp1705-6) and yet I don't see obvious parallel characters in the illusion. I think Blue can control what gets seen in the basic setup of the illusion to a significant extent. I'm taking into consideration that the illusion is now gone. While I have no evidence for it, I'd rather believe that wassername would not be able to maintain a working illusion after being pretty much jousted at, even more if you consider that Jeanne's strikes1 simply rip apart the illusion wherever they hit. Blue would be absurdly resilient and focused in case she was able to keep it going after that. |
|
Noka
New Member
Posts: 22
|
Post by Noka on Oct 16, 2016 18:21:41 GMT
And the illusion did fall, COMPLETELY. Except for the fact we have absolutely no evidence that it did. As far as we know, Jeanne’s still under the illusion. Honestly, I think it’s more likely the illusion didn’t fall than that it did, because as someone else pointed out (I’m too lazy to check who it was), if Jeanne isn’t inside the illusion here, then why is she confused that she missed? If she were outside the illusion, she would know exactly why she missed, and would have no reason to be so confused. We see the illusion's exterior directly afterward, so Blue and Red, at least, are no longer in it. It may have been Jeanne realizing the illusion, as well, but not properly breaking free until she stabbed Blue, explaining her confusion; she assumed that Blue's aetheric location related to her real location, because of the effects of the illusion. Afterward, she does seem to recognize she didn't kill Blue. So I would say it's down. If the illusion were still up, she wouldn't have recognized that she failed to hit properly to begin with. |
|
QuotePilgrim
Full Member
Behind my door, there are twelve other doors.
Posts: 142
|
Post by QuotePilgrim on Oct 17, 2016 1:18:26 GMT
We see the illusion's exterior directly afterward, so Blue and Red, at least, are no longer in it. It may have been Jeanne realizing the illusion, as well, but not properly breaking free until she stabbed Blue, explaining her confusion; she assumed that Blue's aetheric location related to her real location, because of the effects of the illusion. Afterward, she does seem to recognize she didn't kill Blue. So I would say it's down. If the illusion were still up, she wouldn't have recognized that she failed to hit properly to begin with. Thing is, Jeanne doesn’t understad how she missed, and I think it’s pretty obvious she would understand how she missed if she could see that Blue is sitting on the ground. So, yeah, I am pretty convinced Jeanne’s still inside the illusion. |
|
|
|
Post by jda on Oct 17, 2016 4:48:22 GMT
My 2cts : Jeanne will aim again but George will interpose between the two and then big talk and then, everybody was wrong and the story of Jeanne is not what we know about it and oh my gosh Annie is in deadly danger, and then... I still think that in their eagerness to free the unjustly imprisoned Jeanne everyone is overlooking WHY the court decided to trap Jeanne down there. I get the feeling that when/if they free her, there is going to reveal some other terrible danger that her presence was holding back. Like, she was the only useful barrier against Coyote overtaking the Court? |
|
|
|
Post by philman on Oct 17, 2016 7:43:45 GMT
I still think that in their eagerness to free the unjustly imprisoned Jeanne everyone is overlooking WHY the court decided to trap Jeanne down there. I get the feeling that when/if they free her, there is going to reveal some other terrible danger that her presence was holding back. The fact that the Court had reasons to trap Jeanne and her lover doesn't change the fact that it was wrong. There have to be other ways of solving such problems than double murder and imprisoning the sols of the murder victims. That's true, but if someone builds a barrier or dam in a terrible place that causes huge amounts of problems and ruins lives and is a terrible thing, just knocking it down without doing any preparatory work for the huge amount of water that is about to smash you in the face is a bad idea. |
|
|
|
Post by ohthatone on Oct 17, 2016 14:50:14 GMT
Like, she was the only useful barrier against Coyote overtaking the Court?what? I somehow lost my entire post. let me see if I can do a tl;dr version: Not sure why the bridge exists if the Court wants nothing to do with the forest, but as Jeanne can't go on the bridge, I don't see what is keeping Coyote from crossing and taking over if he so desired. He mentioned the Court was trying to be like a god earlier which may have been about how they play with lives, but I'm guessing it's a lot deeper than that and may have something to do with the Omega Device, but I don't see how it's Jeanne by herself being what keep Coyote away. |
|
|
|
Post by ohthatone on Oct 17, 2016 14:58:55 GMT
^ding and dang, I don't know what's going on with my posts right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by jda on Oct 17, 2016 15:14:54 GMT
^ding and dang, I don't know what's going on with my posts right now. Seems like you delete the "[ / quote]" mark, so the texts snap together |
|
|
|
Post by philman on Oct 17, 2016 15:27:50 GMT
Like, she was the only useful barrier against Coyote overtaking the Court? what? I somehow lost my entire post. let me see if I can do a tl;dr version: Not sure why the bridge exists if the Court wants nothing to do with the forest, but as Jeanne can't go on the bridge, I don't see what is keeping Coyote from crossing and taking over if he so desired. He mentioned the Court was trying to be like a god earlier which may have been about how they play with lives, but I'm guessing it's a lot deeper than that and may have something to do with the Omega Device, but I don't see how it's Jeanne by herself being what keep Coyote away. Did I fix the quotes? Jeanne is there to prevent anything crossing by the Annan waters, I assume there is some other mechanism preventing crossing by the bridge. We saw in the very first chapter that the lights are there to prevent the shadow men crossing, I wonder how many other preventative measures there are surrounding the bridge? |
|
|
|
Post by jda on Oct 17, 2016 15:38:31 GMT
I just love how all the threads run into "Wild speculation" genre after some posts  |
|
|
|
Post by Daedalus on Oct 17, 2016 16:23:31 GMT
I just love how all the threads run into "Wild speculation" genre after some posts It's the eternal curse of a forum: our foolishness is inscribed in the book of history, for future generations to scoff at. Only through the lens of hindsight shall we know if we be wise. No but seriously it's hilarious to read through old topics on the forum. We (the collective "we") have a terrible track record of prediction. |
|
|
|
Post by Eversist on Oct 17, 2016 17:57:53 GMT
I just love how all the threads run into "Wild speculation" genre after some posts It's the eternal curse of a forum: our foolishness is inscribed in the book of history, for future generations to scoff at. Only through the lens of hindsight shall we know if we be wise. No but seriously it's hilarious to read through old topics on the forum. We (the collective "we") have a terrible track record of prediction. If we were right all the time, it would definitely be less fun. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 18:21:56 GMT
what? I somehow lost my entire post. let me see if I can do a tl;dr version: Not sure why the bridge exists if the Court wants nothing to do with the forest, but as Jeanne can't go on the bridge, I don't see what is keeping Coyote from crossing and taking over if he so desired. He mentioned the Court was trying to be like a god earlier which may have been about how they play with lives, but I'm guessing it's a lot deeper than that and may have something to do with the Omega Device, but I don't see how it's Jeanne by herself being what keep Coyote away. Did I fix the quotes? Jeanne is there to prevent anything crossing by the Annan waters, I assume there is some other mechanism preventing crossing by the bridge. We saw in the very first chapter that the lights are there to prevent the shadow men crossing, I wonder how many other preventative measures there are surrounding the bridge? The bridge also has alarms, right? I still think that in their eagerness to free the unjustly imprisoned Jeanne everyone is overlooking WHY the court decided to trap Jeanne down there. I get the feeling that when/if they free her, there is going to reveal some other terrible danger that her presence was holding back. Like, she was the only useful barrier against Coyote overtaking the Court? I don't think Jeanne would be able to keep Coyote away. She's strong enough to defeat the guides, but Coyote seems to be on a much higher power level. Also, I don't see why the present-day court would be so afraid of Coyote if even the early court was capable of creating a weapon strong enough to defeat him. At present, the only thing that seems to be stopping Coyote from taking over the court is himself: Anja tells Antimony that after splitting the Court from the Forest, Coyote " promised to leave everyone on our side alone." Apparently that doesn't prevent him from coming over and knocking down buildings when he gets angry, but his promises do seem to be worth something. |
|
|
|
Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 18, 2016 3:27:38 GMT
Like, she was the only useful barrier against Coyote overtaking the Court? I don't think Jeanne would be able to keep Coyote away. She's strong enough to defeat the guides, but Coyote seems to be on a much higher power level. Also, I don't see why the present-day court would be so afraid of Coyote if even the early court was capable of creating a weapon strong enough to defeat him. At present, the only thing that seems to be stopping Coyote from taking over the court is himself: Anja tells Antimony that after splitting the Court from the Forest, Coyote " promised to leave everyone on our side alone." Apparently that doesn't prevent him from coming over and knocking down buildings when he gets angry, but his promises do seem to be worth something. As far as we know, there was no one in the building and Coyote didn't break his promise because he didn't hurt anyone on the Court side. I also think there is probably a reciprocal promise that the Court broke when they kept the Forest Medium, an honorary citizen of the Forest, from the Forest. The Court seemed really quick to blame it on the Broken Man even though he was brought back specifically to reign her in. Coyote loves humans. He doesn't want to attack the Court or take it over. He just wants to have fun with the interesting humans he loves so much. If they do human things and get themselves killed, or do human things and don't keep themselves from getting killed, then it isn't Coyote's fault! |
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Oct 18, 2016 5:34:25 GMT
We (the collective "we") have a terrible track record of prediction. My track record on this webcomic is, I believe, perfect - unblemished by any hint of accuracy. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Oct 18, 2016 12:41:02 GMT
As far as we know, there was no one in the building and Coyote didn't break his promise because he didn't hurt anyone on the Court side. I also think there is probably a reciprocal promise that the Court broke when they kept the Forest Medium, an honorary citizen of the Forest, from the Forest. The Court seemed really quick to blame it on the Broken Man even though he was brought back specifically to reign her in. Coyote loves humans. He doesn't want to attack the Court or take it over. He just wants to have fun with the interesting humans he loves so much. If they do human things and get themselves killed, or do human things and don't keep themselves from getting killed, then it isn't Coyote's fault! As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think the Court hiding behind the broken and traumatized Anthony (and its leaders must have recognized the kind of mental conditin he was in - especially since they were exploiting it) was one of its lowest moments - and suggests that, even though there's obviously been new leadership since the time of Jeanne's murder, it's just as cowardly. I do think that Coyote bears some responsibility for the trouble between the Court and the Wood by making that chasm between them. It stopped them from going to outright war with each other, but it also probably encouraged them to continue distrusting each other and seeing each other as a threat. In fact, that's probably why he did it; he doesn't want a war that could wipe out both sides and leave him with no toys to play with, but he doesn't want a state of peace and harmony between them; to him, that would be boring. |
|
|
|
Post by Per on Oct 18, 2016 12:57:22 GMT
As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think the Court hiding behind the broken and traumatized Anthony (and its leaders must have recognized the kind of mental conditin he was in - especially since they were exploiting it) was one of its lowest moments - and suggests that, even though there's obviously been new leadership since the time of Jeanne's murder, it's just as cowardly. How is it low to let Anthony decide whether Annie should go with the obviously dangerous and deranged forest god? He's her legal guardian, isn't he? |
|
|
|
Post by darlos9d on Oct 18, 2016 13:51:24 GMT
I'm actually relieved about this turn of events for a different reason than most people. Some are calling this a cop-out, but the cop-out to me would have been killing Blue, who I consider a fairly unimportant character. Maybe that's harsh of me, but she's pretty expendable from a narrative standpoint. Which makes using her to add a death to this supposedly most serious of circumstances kinda... lame.
Which begs the question: is this just a distraction to make us less likely to expect a real death coming soon?
|
|
|
|
Post by CoyoteReborn on Oct 18, 2016 17:19:22 GMT
I do think that Coyote bears some responsibility for the trouble between the Court and the Wood by making that chasm between them. It stopped them from going to outright war with each other, but it also probably encouraged them to continue distrusting each other and seeing each other as a threat. In fact, that's probably why he did it; he doesn't want a war that could wipe out both sides and leave him with no toys to play with, but he doesn't want a state of peace and harmony between them; to him, that would be boring. The only thing I'm "responsible" for is causing more fun for everybody! Why, you have one little war and it's over and done! Who would want that? So boring, yes yes. Plus, you wouldn't have a comic to read if I hadn't interfered. I will expect your grateful gifts in the morning! Coyote loves humans. He doesn't want to attack the Court or take it over. He just wants to have fun with the interesting humans he loves so much. If they do human things and get themselves killed, or do human things and don't keep themselves from getting killed, then it isn't Coyote's fault! Nothing is my fault, of course. Because "fault" would imply that I'm not perfect. And I'm perfect, yes yes! *grins toothily* Search your feelings, you know it to be true. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Oct 18, 2016 23:44:09 GMT
How is it low to let Anthony decide whether Annie should go with the obviously dangerous and deranged forest god? He's her legal guardian, isn't he? It's low in that they manipulate him into doing something that they must have realized would displease Coyote, and then when Coyote shws up to express his displeasure, say "It's his fault, not ours! Go after him and leave us alone!" |
|
|
|
Post by Daedalus on Oct 19, 2016 4:09:49 GMT
How is it low to let Anthony decide whether Annie should go with the obviously dangerous and deranged forest god? He's her legal guardian, isn't he? It's low in that they manipulate him into doing something that they must have realized would displease Coyote, and then when Coyote shws up to express his displeasure, say "It's his fault, not ours! Go after him and leave us alone!" They tried to pass off the blame onto an expendable member of the Court. I don't think Coyote would fall for that. He's savvier than he seems (albeit completely loony). |
|
