Names

[todd]

One fun thing about "Gunnerkrigg Court" is the names for the various characters. So far on this discussion board, we've noticed the alchemical significance of the name "Antimony" and compared it to our heroine, and discovered a likely Scottish ballad source for Janet and Willie. A few other names that I thought of taking a look at:

Annie's surname is Carver; her father is/was a surgeon (which makes the surname a bit of dark humor).

Reynardine's name echoes "Reynard the Fox", and wolves and foxes both belong to the dog family.

There were a few medieval legends about a knight named Eglamore.

And Mort's name, linked to the French word "morte", is very appropriate for a ghost - so appropriate that I wonder if it was a name that he took on once he became a ghost.

The names Gamma and Zeta (Zimmy's "real" name) are both from the Greek alphabet, and might have some significance relating to what role they have in their house (are their students there named Alpha, Beta, Delta, etc.?). The letters of the Greek alphabet have been often used for numbers, with Gamma standing for No. 3, for example - if this is the case with these two girls, what is Gamma No. 3 in?

Now somebody needs to find out if there is any significance to the name Donlan....

[La Poire]

Apparently, there is a ballad about a werefox called Reynardine, who would seduce young women to take them to his castle. Suprised no-one has mentioned this before, or perhaps I've just missed it.

[aoeniac]

Being a latin student, I giggle every time somebody references a language derived from latin... because usually the word they are trying to connect actually has counterparts in mutliple languages all derived from latin.

Mort is the ghost's name.
Morte is a french word meaning "died"
You should also note that "la mort" is... well it's death in French.
Morte is an italian word meaning "death".
Morte is a portuguese word meaning "death".
Muerte is a spanish word meaning "death".
Mortal is an english word pertaining to death or the capacity for death.
Mortis is the latin word which they are all derived from. Guess what it means!

As for other names, well, have you ever tried seaching for "Surma" on google or wikipedia?

[AluK]

Sullivan's John is the name of an Irish ballad.

Edit:

Oh, aoeniac, I had noticed that before and forgot to mention myself. Portuguese is my first language. ;D

I'd like to learn Latin myself, but had little "time" for it.

*is friggin' lazy*

[brice]

Surma may refer to:

a. Surma (Finnish mythology), a beast which guards the gates of the Underworld;
b. Surma people, a pastoralist ethnic group in western Ethiopia;
c. John Surma, American businessman;
d. another name for the eyelash dye and eye cosmetic Kohl;

... d. has been mentioned already in the alchemy or Annie threads. a. seems potentially appropriate to GC:

Surma (Finnish mythology)

Surma is a character similar to Cerberus in the Finnish mythology of Kalevala. Surma is a terrible beast, embodies sudden, violent death and guards the gates of the Underworld or Tuonela to prevent escape. An often-used Finnish metaphor is surman suuhun "into Surma's mouth", as if the victim was mauled to death by Surma. Surma also means kill, or specifically a kill.

... but it's more likely that Surma is connected to d. just look at Annies eyes ...

Kohl (also kol, from Arabic kuḥūl, known as Sirma (also spelled Surma) or Kajal in the Subcontinent), is a mixture of soot and other ingredients, used by Egyptian and Asian women, and to a lesser extent men, to darken the eyelids and as mascara for the eyelashes. Kohl has been worn traditionally as far back as the Bronze Age. Kohl was originally used as protection against eye ailments. Darkening around the eyelids also provided relief from the glare of the sun. Mothers would also apply kohl to their infants' eyes soon after birth. Some did this to "strengthen the child's eyes," and others believed it could prevent the child from being cursed by an "evil eye".

... kohl is sometimes made with ores containing antimony. Don't know if the antimony is intentional or incidental.

[Aspen d'Grey]

There's also a Donlan family crest, the name is of Irish heritage. www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/donlan-family-crest.htm

More info on Donlan upcoming

[AluK]

Carver family crest

On that same site.

[todd]

Well, the connection of Surma to eye make-up would definitely fit in with Annie's eyeshadow.

I hadn't known about the derivation of Sullivan's John's name - but it fits in with Tom's picture of him on the Art page of the site where he's playing a stringed instrument.

[rastarogue]

Have we ever seen any of the Donlans do anything violent?
I can't remember them doing anything like that so the translated motto makes sense:
Too strong for any violence.

[owl]

Anyone else reminded of a Handful of Dirt by the Donlan family crest?

[AluK]

The whole "lonely tree" thing? Can't say I did.

[rastarogue]

owl said:

Anyone else reminded of a Handful of Dirt by the Donlan family crest?

Actually was the first thing I thought of. If the donlans are really that good at technology and the almost the entire lonely tree scene was a illusion, it could be that they were trying to create a three dimensional form of their crest.

[Aspen d'Grey]

If he was, I am yet more impressed with Tom's research and dedication to evil little plot holes.

[rastarogue]

We already know he is, so we should assume that this is another.

[owl]

I don't think that's the whole reason, though. Or maybe it was at the beginning. I mean, after all, if you have a school the size of a city, why NOT make a room that's a three dimensional replica of your family crest? But I think they decided, hey, as long as we have this, why not plant this handy-dandy robot arm there?

If it is a replica, maybe the gardener is related to Kat somehow? A grandfather?

Or maybe I'm just forming connections where there are none. There have to be some characters that aren't related to other characters.

[brice]

Here's an Anglicised version of a song about our dark river. There's lots of other, more original and harder to read versions on the net.

ANNAN WATER

Oh Annan Water's wondrous deep, and my love Annie is wondrous bonny
I'm loath that she should wet her feet, because I love her best of any
Go saddle to me the bonny grey mare, go saddle her soon and make her ready,
For I must cross that river tonight and all to see my bonny lady.

And woe betide you Annan water, at night you are a gloomy river,
And over you I'll build a bridge, that never more true love may sever.

And he has ridden o'er field and fell, o'er moor and moss and many a mire
His spurs of steel sore to bite, and for the mare's feet flew the fire
The more flew on o'er moor and moor and when she'd won the Annan Water
She couldn't have rid a furlong more, had a thousand whips been laid upon her.

And woe betide you Annan water, at night you are a gloomy river,
And over you I'll build a bridge, that never more true love may sever.

Oh, boatman come, put-off your boat; put-off your boat for gold and money,
For I must cross that stream tonight, or never more I'll see my Annie.
The sides are steep, the waters deep, from bank to brae the water's pouring
And you bonny grey mare she sweats for fear, she stands to hear the water roaring.

And woe betide you Annan water, at night you are a gloomy river,
And over you I'll build a bridge, that never more true love may sever.

And he has tried to swim that stream, and he swam on both strong and steady
But the river was broad and strength did fail, and he never saw his bonny lady.
Oh woe betide the willow wand, and woe betide the bush of briar,
For it broke beneath her true love's hands, when strength did fail and limbs did tire.

And woe betide you Annan water, at night you are a gloomy river,
And over you I'll build a bridge, that never more true love may sever
That never more true love may sever.

-----
Traditional
Sung by Nic Jones on "Ballads and Songs"

[Aspen d'Grey]

Oh hell. I -have- that cd, but never made the connection.

[brice]

Annie is reading a book in www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=182

From wiki:

In the 1982 film Blade Runner, the replicant Roy Batty (played by Rutger Hauer) refers to the gate while recounting his experiences as an off-world commando: "I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe; attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion; I've watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate."

The Tannhauser Gate, however, does not have its source in science fiction, but instead, in ancient German legend. The Tannhauser Gate is, in fact, a reference to the German tale of Tannhäuser, the knight that spent a year worshipping Venus in her impossibly well-hidden lair deep beneath the earth. The Tannhauser Gate, then, is symbolic of reaching the impossible through long struggle — something that Roy Batty believes he has done, in spite of his not quite human status.

[iMacThere4iAm]

The tree in 'A Handful Of Dirt' was the first thing I thought of on seeing that Donlan crest. I'm certain it's the same tree as in room 113. (Is it 113? I can't find a reference now, but I'm sure it was.)

[todd]

That was a neat discovery about the Annan River, brice, and it's all the more appropriate that there's a character named Annie in it (who's even, like our heroine, "wondrous bonny"). Of course, the big difference here is that instead of the river being an ultimately fatal barrier to a lover, it's something that should be a barrier to an adversary but isn't.

[La Poire]

imacthere4iam said:

The tree in 'A Handful Of Dirt' was the first thing I thought of on seeing that Donlan crest. I'm certain it's the same tree as in room 113. (Is it 113? I can't find a reference now, but I'm sure it was.)

It's always 113. It pops up everywhere, see the 113 thread.

[rastarogue]

owl said:

I don't think that's the whole reason, though. Or maybe it was at the beginning. I mean, after all, if you have a school the size of a city, why NOT make a room that's a three dimensional replica of your family crest? But I think they decided, hey, as long as we have this, why not plant this handy-dandy robot arm there?

If it is a replica, maybe the gardener is related to Kat somehow? A grandfather?

Or maybe I'm just forming connections where there are none. There have to be some characters that aren't related to other characters.

That would be cool, but I don't think so. He could be a relative of surma's.

[owl]

Hey, I can play that song on harp! Never paid attention to the lyrics, though. Interesting!
Again, I'm amazed at Tom. Does EVERY little thing have an origin in mythology?

[Deleted]

owl said:

Hey, I can play that song on harp! Never paid attention to the lyrics, though. Interesting!
Again, I'm amazed at Tom. Does EVERY little thing have an origin in mythology?

You can play harp?

*jealousy*

[Aspen d'Grey]

Harp is a pain. TimbreHarps++ =D

TimbreHarp is a brand of chorded Zypher, or Autoharp

[shadow314]

todd said:

Now somebody needs to find out if there is any significance to the name Donlan....

ITS RELATING TO MY BAND TEACHER!!! dun dun dun.... hehe!

[owl]

Harp is a pain. In the wrists. When I don't hold my hands right.

But I still love it!

How d'you know, Aspen? You play?

[Aspen d'Grey]

Yeah, I play everything. x.x
Only slightly kidding, I do play Harp & Autoharp along with a variety of winds & strings. Not a lot of percussion instruments unless you count piano or dulcimer.

[owl]

Sweet! That's awesome. Dulcimer counts as a string instrument in my book. But anyway...

[aidan]

aluk said:

Sullivan's John is the name of an Irish ballad.

Hmm, I wonder if that means SJ and Kat will pair off? I think Kat is the tinker's daughter in this context

I can't quite figure out what's going on in the ballad, though. Being an Irish ballad, it's not in Child, so I'm not familiar with it.