Wild Speculation

[muddkipz]

Oct 30, 2011 20:05:43 GMT BingsF said:

Oct 30, 2011 18:57:08 GMT nomibear said:

This is more canon than speculation. It's debatable whether the love is platonic or not (I think it's a non-romantic servanty-love-for-all-powerful-master kind of thing), but it's pretty much been confirmed, with the whole "I totally screwed up his life and made him all gross and old, but Ysengrin loves me very much!" on Coyote's part.

I dunno. For me, something about the way Coyote says "Ysengrin loves me very much" gives me the impression of some sort of subtext there between them, along the lines of "Ysengrin loves me very much [...or else!]"
Just like Coyote could have said during the summer: "Antimony guards my secrets closely!" (or she loses a hand)

This brings up a point I hadn't thought much about before, but I think you're right.

Perky Goth Girl is another of Coyote's disguises.

[mjkerpan]

Here's one: the Acme Corporation is actually based at the Court, which explains why its products always seem to fail Coyote's American cousin in the worst possible way.

[rainofsteel]

Oct 11, 2011 16:48:33 GMT djublonskopf said:

Jones just has everybody fooled. She's a totally normal lady, who wears heavy orthopedics to help with her posture, and can hold her breath for a while.

Heavy orthopedics? Like Goku and Piccolo?

[descoladavirus]

Here's something to think about. Jack's dad (hyland senior) works and lives at the Court. We've seen someone who looks like Jack who works at the court

[nomibear]

Oct 30, 2011 20:05:43 GMT BingsF said:

I dunno. For me, something about the way Coyote says "Ysengrin loves me very much" gives me the impression of some sort of subtext there between them, along the lines of "Ysengrin loves me very much [...or else!]"
Just like Coyote could have said during the summer: "Antimony guards my secrets closely!" (or she loses a hand)

Kind of a "Ysengrin loves me very much... RIGHT, YSENGRIN?" ;P
I wouldn't put it past Coyote, but I wouldn't put much past Coyote. Yeah, I think that's part of it, but I also thing that Ysengrin is, to some degree, loyal to Coyote at a level that's a bit irrational. Some would say this unswerving, unconditional loyalty constitutes love. I'm not sure, but hey. Why not.
Ysengrin remains one of my favorite characters
I don't think Jeanne is Surma, though Jeanne being a fire elemental would add an interesting twist. It would explain the fiery distortion of her face during her "IT SHOULD BE MINE TO TAKE" conflict with Parley.
I think the Donlans are descended from Diego. It would be made of sad, but I think it'd add a really interesting dimension to the story, and it sounds to me like something Tom would do.

[smjjames]

Nov 5, 2011 1:15:56 GMT descoladavirus said:

Here's something to think about. Jack's dad (hyland senior) works and lives at the Court. We've seen someone who looks like Jack who works at the court

Huh, hadn't noticed the resemblance.

Nov 5, 2011 2:06:02 GMT nomibear said:

Oct 30, 2011 20:05:43 GMT BingsF said:

I dunno. For me, something about the way Coyote says "Ysengrin loves me very much" gives me the impression of some sort of subtext there between them, along the lines of "Ysengrin loves me very much [...or else!]"
Just like Coyote could have said during the summer: "Antimony guards my secrets closely!" (or she loses a hand)

Kind of a "Ysengrin loves me very much... RIGHT, YSENGRIN?" ;P
I wouldn't put it past Coyote, but I wouldn't put much past Coyote. Yeah, I think that's part of it, but I also thing that Ysengrin is, to some degree, loyal to Coyote at a level that's a bit irrational. Some would say this unswerving, unconditional loyalty constitutes love. I'm not sure, but hey. Why not.
Ysengrin remains one of my favorite characters
I don't think Jeanne is Surma, though Jeanne being a fire elemental would add an interesting twist. It would explain the fiery distortion of her face during her "IT SHOULD BE MINE TO TAKE" conflict with Parley.
I think the Donlans are descended from Diego. It would be made of sad, but I think it'd add a really interesting dimension to the story, and it sounds to me like something Tom would do.

The fiery distortion would also be explained by the fact that she just said on the previous page is that all that is left of her spirit was forged into hate, anger, rage.....

Diego never had any children (biological ones that we know of) and he considered the robots to be his children.

Given that he is from Spain, Anja being a distant relation is still a possibility.

[descoladavirus]

Here's a thought or two.

When Muut explained what the "psychopomps" know of Jeanne he said she was alone and waiting. Could she be waiting for a certain green skinned man of the forest? Which raises the question, would she attack one of the Anwyn?

[nomibear]

Nov 5, 2011 1:15:56 GMT descoladavirus said:

Here's something to think about. Jack's dad (hyland senior) works and lives at the Court. We've seen someone who looks like Jack who works at the court

YES.
I hadn't noticed it at all, but I bet that's Mr. Hyland the Elder

Nov 7, 2011 0:41:59 GMT smjjames said:

The fiery distortion would also be explained by the fact that she just said on the previous page is that all that is left of her spirit was forged into hate, anger, rage.....

Yes, but she said WHITE hot, and the light that ensnared her soul is green. Why red? I suppose that it could be Parley's heart reflecting off her face, but I still like to entertain the idea
It makes it doubly unlikely because Jeanne is a blonde, and all the fire elementals we've encountered up to now have red hair.

[bingli]

www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=540 on a random note, does this indicate that Jones was a peer of the parents? or at least that her form was?

somebody probably mentioned this already but oh well!

[smjjames]

nomibear: saying red hot doesn't have the same tone as white hot though.

[Mezzaphor]

Nov 12, 2011 23:37:24 GMT bingli said:

www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=540 on a random note, does this indicate that Jones was a peer of the parents? or at least that her form was?

somebody probably mentioned this already but oh well!

I don't have the link handy, but Tom actually said that Jones wasn't educated at the Court. So yeah, she was there at the Court at the same time as Annie's parents, but what she was doing there at the time is a bit of a mystery right now.

[nomibear]

Nov 12, 2011 23:50:46 GMT smjjames said:

nomibear: saying red hot doesn't have the same tone as white hot though.

I don't really get what you mean. :/

I wonder if Jones can age... Was there ever a kiddie-Jones?

[imaginaryfriend]

Info on Jones has been collected in this thread.

[smjjames]

Nov 13, 2011 12:11:50 GMT nomibear said:

Nov 12, 2011 23:50:46 GMT smjjames said:

nomibear: saying red hot doesn't have the same tone as white hot though.

I don't really get what you mean. :/

I wonder if Jones can age... Was there ever a kiddie-Jones?

Now I'm not sure what you were getting at when you said that Jeanne said WHITE hot.

[nero]

I think that there will come a time where Annie will stop using makeup or at least use different colors. I think she'll stop as a sign of being her own person or maybe after learning more about who her mother was.

Without makeup Annie looks better and of course more like her real age.

[muddkipz]

Nov 19, 2011 0:10:03 GMT nero said:

I think that there will come a time where Annie will stop using makeup or at least use different colors. I think she'll stop as a sign of being her own person or maybe after learning more about who her mother was.

Without makeup Annie looks better and of course more like her real age.

I really like that idea. Although it's unlikely, it would be a good way to show that she's living her own life and not just her mother's anymore.

[lilith]

Nov 7, 2011 0:41:59 GMT smjjames said:

Nov 5, 2011 1:15:56 GMT descoladavirus said:

Here's something to think about. Jack's dad (hyland senior) works and lives at the Court. We've seen someone who looks like Jack who works at the court

Huh, hadn't noticed the resemblance.


Kind of a "Ysengrin loves me very much... RIGHT, YSENGRIN?" ;P
I wouldn't put it past Coyote, but I wouldn't put much past Coyote. Yeah, I think that's part of it, but I also thing that Ysengrin is, to some degree, loyal to Coyote at a level that's a bit irrational. Some would say this unswerving, unconditional loyalty constitutes love. I'm not sure, but hey. Why not.
Ysengrin remains one of my favorite characters
I don't think Jeanne is Surma, though Jeanne being a fire elemental would add an interesting twist. It would explain the fiery distortion of her face during her "IT SHOULD BE MINE TO TAKE" conflict with Parley.
I think the Donlans are descended from Diego. It would be made of sad, but I think it'd add a really interesting dimension to the story, and it sounds to me like something Tom would do.

The fiery distortion would also be explained by the fact that she just said on the previous page is that all that is left of her spirit was forged into hate, anger, rage.....

Diego never had any children (biological ones that we know of) and he considered the robots to be his children.

Given that he is from Spain, Anja being a distant relation is still a possibility.[/quote]

This would explain why Kat can read the codes of his robots, something no human- except maybe Diego- should be able to do.

[smjjames]

lilith: Yea, if the etheric ability was in his family or the ethericotechnological (mouthful, heh) abilities like Anja has were in his family, then even if he was an only child, relations such as cousins could still carry on those same etheric abilities.

Anyways, for my wild speculation. Perhaps the Shadowmen always had that ability to go 3D, but never knew how or laid latent until Shadow2 had it unlocked by his god (okay, a part of his god, but considering we're talking about gods here, specifically Coyote at that.....).

[Tierra Y Libertad]

Things for Reynardine to possess:
www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/browse/179/4#20605561

[chaoticrogue]

I was rereading the Coward Heart just a little while ago.

On page 776 www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=776 Jeane has Steadman shoot her letter over to the forest and her elf lover. Obviously she must have trusted Steadman quite a bit to let him know she was communicating with the other side.

Now, just going off their appearances, I think they look like they're related to one another.

Anyone else get the same feeling when looking at the two of them?

[smjjames]

No, other than the blonde hair and the shape of the nose, they don't look that much alike.

[csj]

Songlines.

I swear, if the circuitry in those golems have anything to do with motherfreaking songlines.

I will shit Rainbow Serpents, Totems and Dreaming.

Incidentally, if anyone wants to know what those things are, I'll try and provide some answers and more questions (haha!).

[smjjames]

Songlines? From your second sentence it sounds like you're talking about Native American stuff.

Edit: Replace American with Australian and I would have been right. I'm guessing you mean this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songlines

[csj]

Jan 1, 2012 3:10:57 GMT smjjames said:

Songlines? From your second sentence it sounds like you're talking about Native American stuff.

Edit: Replace American with Australian and I would have been right. I'm guessing you mean this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songlines

This.

Being an Australian who studied Aboriginal Spirituality in High School and a little at University, I sort of have an interest in that particular area. Though Songlines are far more important than that article would make you believe. It's basically a spiritual map of an entire continent. Despite the attempted purge of Indigenous spirituality, songlines are powerful enough today that they can sink development projects - any change or impediment in one songline has a ripple effect on the surrounds and anything that could block a crucial songline attracts immense attention from the indigenous communities that still trace them today.

Totem Animals here are somewhat different in concept to what you're probably thinking of. But the Rainbow Serpent is probably one of the easiest things to learn about off the internet alone, so if you want to look into it, it's a good place to start. Just keep in mind the diversity of spirituality here; the Rainbow Serpent is only recognised by certain tribes in certain parts of the country.

Australian Aboriginal spirituality is inherently and intrinsically connected to 'Country', to the extent that removal from one's ancestral lands severs one's spiritual connections - even when moving within Australia, since each area is unique and its songlines and ancestral spirits unrecognisable when moving any more than a few kilometres beyond one's ancestral lands. Serious business.

[smjjames]

Cool.

Also, what would the Native Cat spirit be? Thylacoleo? Aside from bats and seals, there are no native placental animals in Australia, so it can't be a placental cat.

[csj]

Jan 1, 2012 5:59:50 GMT smjjames said:

Cool.

Also, what would the Native Cat spirit be? Thylacoleo? Aside from bats and seals, there are no native placental animals in Australia, so it can't be a placental cat.

I waggle my digital finger at this seeming oversight. While indeed there are no indigenous cats, there are indigenous species of placental mammals; namely, bats, and a few species of mice. But cats got here anyhow. It would indeed be awkward to use Thylacaoleo, but I have found references to a ancestral spirit in the form of a 'cat-person' (Ngariman) belonging to the Karadjeri people. That said, whether that's a literal or figurative description is something I can't answer directly with the limited information I have available right now. It COULD be a reference to Thylacaoleo, but one cannot know for sure without actually going there (Northern Australia is a long way from where I live ATM).

Of course, that doesn't stop some people doing some wishful thinking.

www.australianbigcats.com
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gippsland_phantom_cat
(Noting that confirmed specimens were really large feral cats; importation of actual 'big cats' is an urban myth)

EDIT: And I can't beleive I left out Quolls, which are the most convergent extant species of marsupials to cats.

[smjjames]

I said aside from bats, didn't realize about the mice though.

It's also possible that it could be a remnant of a tradition which did come from a place with cats, which would be everywhere else, or at least with a belief in cat-man ancestor spirits.

[csj]

Jan 1, 2012 16:22:44 GMT smjjames said:

It's also possible that it could be a remnant of a tradition which did come from a place with cats, which would be everywhere else, or at least with a belief in cat-man ancestor spirits.

Impossible. It is the only mention of anything involving cats in the entirety of their mythology, and cats were only domesticated 5000 years ago. Australia itself pre-dates the Felidae genus, which never spread past Java as there were no land bridges they were capable of crossing past his point. The most likely hypothesis is that the word as referenced, comes from a colloquial description of appearance, rather than a literal statement, given the difficulty of describing ancestral spirits or other elements of their mythology, such as bunyips.

Indigenous Australian are known to have lived in Australia for at least 40 000 years; most likely longer, for most of Northern Australia. The extinction of the Megafauna is also known to have happened around the same time as their arrival.

[smjjames]

Well, I never said it would involve domestic cats. Another thought though, is it possible that it simply got misinterpreted and/or mistranslated as 'cat'?

Maybe it should be called a Native Felinoid ancestor spirit? Could also be something like a werewolf or weretiger, which is what I thought of when you referred it as a 'cat-person' and there are animal-persons or were-somethings in many cultures, maybe the Ngariman is their werewolf so to speak.

[csj]

Jan 1, 2012 23:48:50 GMT smjjames said:

Well, I never said it would involve domestic cats. Another thought though, is it possible that it simply got misinterpreted and/or mistranslated as 'cat'?

Maybe it should be called a Native Felinoid ancestor spirit? Could also be something like a werewolf or weretiger, which is what I thought of when you referred it as a 'cat-person' and there are animal-persons or were-somethings in many cultures, maybe the Ngariman is their werewolf so to speak.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinie_Ger
Like the above, I think it's a reference to Quolls more likely than not. While I'd frown at something based on the Felidae genus, a were-marsupial of some kind is very much plausible. There are many, many ancestral spirits that are described as being part-human, or once-human, though in many respects the land itself is also considered to be living. Many animals are described as being descendants of humans, often due to a curse of some kind. Some elements of the Dreaming are secret and protected by the tribes they are associated with, including the Tingari Cycle which contains a lot of content regarding Quolls.

And there are plenty of Gods to choose from, too. Wikipedia's listing is only part of what is a very large and diverse range of deities.

And sorry by the way, if I sound like a prick about this.