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Post by spoonr on Apr 2, 2015 18:37:48 GMT
Does anyone else think this is just a little too pat? We are at a good point in the chapter for a sudden plot twist. And this whole thing feels like "even if Anthony understood emotions and hated Antimony, he couldn't have done worse than this".
Mulling that over, I tried looking at this from other people's perspectives, starting with the best villain candidate
Headmaster. Probably still upset over Coyote trumped his play (by C appointing Annie as forest medium). Doesn't like/trust things associated with the forest. Knows that Antimony was cheating because teachers. Knows enough about Anthony to assume he hates the forest (because superscience guy) & that he is socially inept, and knows Ysengrim hates Anthony. So, get Anthony to teach her class, then tell him about the cheating. Anthony does something painful and unemotional, Antimony is scarred enough to quit school &/or run to the forest. Headmaster can use that expel her. Benefit: Get revenge on Coyote and remove a spy from GC. Gets a problem student out of his hair. His hands are clean in GC because Antimony's parent did the dirty work on his own. And the forest hates Anthony so they will just blame him.
Donlan/Eglamore/Anthony's friends. They can understand a what, 5 word sentence?, and unpack a lot of details (including Anthony emotions) to Antimony. As teachers, they might have advance notice of any staff changes. It seems likely that the first thing Anthony would do in GC is contact them to get an information update, maybe request some stuff. They would try to intervene if they thought something bad was happening.
Anthony (assuming that when Surma said 'he still loves you' is still correct in present). Loves daughter, but can't express it. Wants to spend time with her if he can make it his business. Tries to help her from wherever he was. Finds out about the cheating. Someone suggested that the flashback & similarities means someone in Anthony's group cheated too, and it was handled somehow.
Why assume that Anthony likes the headmaster or will do what he asks? Given the group he hangs with: folks who are now teachers and who don't seem exactly thrilled by the headmaster, and someone who was part-forest-elemental. Antagonism is more likely.
My wild guess: Antimony will redo year 9 and do 10 simultaneously. Anthony will be her sole teacher for the makeup (considering Kat's talents, most of Anti's cheating would be in stuff Anthony is good at). Headmaster will grumble but have to accept it.
Probably wishful thinking and crazy speculation. :edit: Never mind. Anthony is just an ass. :/edit:
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Post by spoonr on Apr 2, 2015 18:50:26 GMT
One crazier idea. Who is Bismuth, or maybe Ms Seed?
I don't know all the alchemy & chemistry references through the comic, but looking at Antimony, Surma Stibnite, and someone/thing called Bismuth
bismuth is on top of antimony in the periodic table. So at least some similar properties.
One reference said Surma is Russian for Antimony
Stibnite is also called Antimonite
Stibnite (called kohl) was used in ancient Egypt as eye makeup. Wonder what is in the stuff Antimony wears?
So a lot of links between the words antimony and stibnite. Bismuth is also connected but more distantly.
What if Bismuth was the first medium? The only flaw is the whole grew from the seed bismuth.
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Post by OGRuddawg on Apr 11, 2015 2:44:01 GMT
If Tom is going for worst-case-scenario, I would predict that Anthony uses his control of Renard to keep an eye on Annie 24/7 and report everything she does to him. No contact of any sort is allowed between her and Renard except to keep her from disobeying any of Anthony's orders. I really hope that doesn't happen, though. It would be beyond cruel to force Rey to do that...
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Post by snowbody on Apr 11, 2015 3:29:30 GMT
1. As Renard speculated before, Anthony Carver used his mind-control powers to steal Surma away from Eglamore.
2. While enthralled, Surma has very little will of her own, but can make suggestions to Anthony.
3. She desperately wants out of the current situation and knows that the only way of doing so is for either her or Anthony to die.
4. She can't kill Anthony because of mind-control.
5. She can't kill herself because of mind-control.
6. She can't do anything that would cause Anthony to kill her because of mind-control.
7. So, she suggests that he get her pregnant. Anthony thinks this is a great idea: another person to enslave. He doesn't know Surma is part fire elemental and giving birth will cause her to get progressively weaker until she dies.
8. Surma's plan works perfectly, and it has the added bonus of distracting Anthony for years in his futile quest for a cure, so he only has time to put the most basic mind-control on Antimony.
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Post by Chancellor on Apr 11, 2015 3:44:33 GMT
Wait, Rey claimed Anthony has actual mind control?
Direct me to this page.
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 11, 2015 5:21:19 GMT
Wait, Rey claimed Anthony has actual mind control? Direct me to this page. Closest I can think of is Rey saying Anthony must has used trickery to win Surma, back in Fire Spike. But he also said everyone, including Anthony, knew if Surma had a baby she would die (so if Rey's telling the truth Anthony wasn't tricked into killing Surma by having a child with her). |
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Post by guitarminotaur on Apr 11, 2015 5:38:34 GMT
This doesn't necessarily relate to the current crisis in comic (though it might play into potential allies) but Janet is the daughter of the headmaster, right? If Annie and her friends end up in conflict with the headmaster for whatever reason, I'm curious to see what role she might play.
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Post by Chancellor on Apr 11, 2015 5:49:29 GMT
This doesn't necessarily relate to the current crisis in comic (though it might play into potential allies) but Janet is the daughter of the headmaster, right? If Annie and her friends end up in conflict with the headmaster for whatever reason, I'm curious to see what role she might play. Any rebellion on her part will be met with the usual disinterested deflating. |
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Post by AnUpliftedCuttlefish on Apr 11, 2015 6:01:58 GMT
This doesn't necessarily relate to the current crisis in comic (though it might play into potential allies) but Janet is the daughter of the headmaster, right? If Annie and her friends end up in conflict with the headmaster for whatever reason, I'm curious to see what role she might play. A lot of Janet's appearances have centered on her secret relationship with Winsbury, so that might be more of a deciding factor on who she'd side with then her father.* He looked absolutely livid when Anthony told Annie to wash off her makeup. *Though since they pretend to hate each other perhaps she'd act as a double agent, pretending to be opposed to Winsbury's pro-Antimony rebels but secretly passing information to him. |
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 11, 2015 10:25:38 GMT
7. So, she suggests that he get her pregnant. Anthony thinks this is a great idea: another person to enslave. He doesn't know Surma is part fire elemental and giving birth will cause her to get progressively weaker until she dies. Those of us who did actually read the comic are either whistling or winking. |
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Post by Vilthuril on Apr 11, 2015 10:47:26 GMT
Wait, Rey claimed Anthony has actual mind control? Direct me to this page. Closest I can think of is Rey saying Anthony must has used trickery to win Surma, back in Fire Spike. But he also said everyone, including Anthony, knew if Surma had a baby she would die (so if Rey's telling the truth Anthony wasn't tricked into killing Surma by having a child with her). Here is my wild speculation: Surma knew she would die if she had a child, but she wanted to have a child anyway. Either she didn't want to put Eglamore through her dying, or Eglamore did not want to have a child and have her die and so she decided to look elsewhere. Either Anthony already liked her, or she arranged for him to like her as she did also with Reynardine. Yes, Brinnie didn't get through to Anthony but all Brinnie apparently did was stand around posing and giving him glances while waiting for him to actually make the first real move; a person could do much more...  |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 11, 2015 14:16:01 GMT
1. As Renard speculated before, Anthony Carver used his mind-control powers to steal Surma away from Eglamore. 2. While enthralled, Surma has very little will of her own, but can make suggestions to Anthony. 3. She desperately wants out of the current situation and knows that the only way of doing so is for either her or Anthony to die. 4. She can't kill Anthony because of mind-control. 5. She can't kill herself because of mind-control. 6. She can't do anything that would cause Anthony to kill her because of mind-control. 7. So, she suggests that he get her pregnant. Anthony thinks this is a great idea: another person to enslave. He doesn't know Surma is part fire elemental and giving birth will cause her to get progressively weaker until she dies. 8. Surma's plan works perfectly, and it has the added bonus of distracting Anthony for years in his futile quest for a cure, so he only has time to put the most basic mind-control on Antimony. That is some wild speculating... Now give me my +2 Hat of Tinfoil back! I need it to endure the slow water torture that is Chapter 51. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 1:28:07 GMT
Hi everyone! I'm wondering if someone could explain a particular Wild Speculation I've been seeing a lot recently about the symbol on Rey's forehead. Some people apparently got the idea from the linked page that Reynardine is only controlled by Annie because his body has her symbol on it. My understanding, and how I read the text, is the exact opposite: we can see that the doll never had the Antimony/quicksilver symbol before it got possessed. Renard says that Annie owns him because she owns his body; the symbol on the forehead seems to only symbolize this relationship of control. In other words, I think that if Renard had possessed Annie's hypothetical pet potato instead, I think the potato would have gained a magically glowing Antimony symbol. I noticed this because of the discussion in recent chapters about Antimony transferring control to Anothony; my understanding is that the fact that Rey is marked with Antimony's symbol currently would be no obstacle to this transfer. Once Annie passes ownership to Anthony, I would think the symbol would simply change to reflect this, becoming... the alchemical symbol for Anthony? (whatever that is...) gunnerkrigg.com/?p=81 |
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Post by todd on Apr 14, 2015 1:35:39 GMT
In other words, I think that if Renard had possessed Annie's hypothetical pet potato instead, I think the potato would have gained a magically glowing Antimony symbol. Mention once that Reynardine can possess anything with eyes, and they never let you forget the more bizarre ramifications. (Let's be glad that he didn't say he could possess anything with ears and the responses could get - um - corny.) |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 14, 2015 1:37:01 GMT
Hi everyone! I'm wondering if someone could explain a particular Wild Speculation I've been seeing a lot recently about the symbol on Rey's forehead. Some people apparently got the idea from the linked page that Reynardine is only controlled by Annie because his body has her symbol on it. My understanding, and how I read the text, is the exact opposite: we can see that the doll never had the Antimony/quicksilver symbol before it got possessed. Renard says that Annie owns him because she owns his body; the symbol on the forehead seems to only symbolize this relationship of control. In other words, I think that if Renard had possessed Annie's hypothetical pet potato instead, I think the potato would have gained a magically glowing Antimony symbol. I noticed this because of the discussion in recent chapters about Antimony transferring control to Anothony; my understanding is that the fact that Rey is marked with Antimony's symbol currently would be no obstacle to this transfer. Once Annie passes ownership to Anthony, I would think the symbol would simply change to reflect this, becoming... the alchemical symbol for Anthony? (whatever that is...) gunnerkrigg.com/?p=81I believe you are correct, but I don't recall a direct in-comic explanation that removes all doubt. We may see one soon* however. Our definition / desire for "soon" may not match Tom's. In other words, I think that if Renard had possessed Annie's hypothetical pet potato instead, I think the potato would have gained a magically glowing Antimony symbol. Mention once that Reynardine can possess anything with eyes, and they never let you forget the more bizarre ramifications. (Let's be glad that he didn't say he could possess anything with ears and the responses could get - um - corny.) Yeah, someone did note that potatoes can grow eyes, so a possessed potato could be a thing. |
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 14, 2015 4:13:20 GMT
Hi everyone! I'm wondering if someone could explain a particular Wild Speculation I've been seeing a lot recently about the symbol on Rey's forehead. Some people apparently got the idea from the linked page that Reynardine is only controlled by Annie because his body has her symbol on it. My understanding, and how I read the text, is the exact opposite: we can see that the doll never had the Antimony/quicksilver symbol before it got possessed. Renard says that Annie owns him because she owns his body; the symbol on the forehead seems to only symbolize this relationship of control. In other words, I think that if Renard had possessed Annie's hypothetical pet potato instead, I think the potato would have gained a magically glowing Antimony symbol. I noticed this because of the discussion in recent chapters about Antimony transferring control to Anothony; my understanding is that the fact that Rey is marked with Antimony's symbol currently would be no obstacle to this transfer. Once Annie passes ownership to Anthony, I would think the symbol would simply change to reflect this, becoming... the alchemical symbol for Anthony? (whatever that is...) I think that the orthodox party line is that Renard's personal alchemy symbol is that of Mercury (farthest right on this page). When he's within Annie's control, his symbol is subsumed underneath Antimony's, paralleling how in alchemy, Mercury is considered special because it can permeate and become part of many different materials. Plus its status as a liquid metal is similar to how Rey's form is incorporeal when he's not in a body. So yes, under the normal interpretation, Rey's symbol would become Anthony's symbol (my vote is for Arsenic or Magnesium, for the record, if he's represented by an element). |
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Post by speedwell on Apr 14, 2015 7:49:42 GMT
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Post by snowbody on Apr 14, 2015 15:44:40 GMT
7. So, she suggests that he get her pregnant. Anthony thinks this is a great idea: another person to enslave. He doesn't know Surma is part fire elemental and giving birth will cause her to get progressively weaker until she dies. Those of us who did actually read the comic are either whistling or winking. Well it made sense at 2am... |
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 15, 2015 10:02:09 GMT
I've read theories here that Kat is going to end up inventing the Tic Tocs via some kind of time travel. I say yes and no. I think the idea with human beliefs and the aether is that if a belief becomes strong enough, if needed, it becomes retroactively true. Like the stars being in the sky before someone thought up Coyote and decided he did it. So if it was Kat who made them, it will turn out that it was always Kat who made the Tic Tocs, no active, deliberate time travel required. Sort of like an ethereal retcon.
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 15, 2015 17:50:30 GMT
I've read theories here that Kat is going to end up inventing the Tic Tocs via some kind of time travel. I say yes and no. I think the idea with human beliefs and the aether is that if a belief becomes strong enough, if needed, it becomes retroactively true. Like the stars being in the sky before someone thought up Coyote and decided he did it. So if it was Kat who made them, it will turn out that it was always Kat who made the Tic Tocs, no active, deliberate time travel required. Sort of like an ethereal retcon. Have you seen my favorite theory that I'm always promoting?  (If not, check out the link in my signature.) |
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freeman
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That 70's Coyote!
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Post by freeman on Apr 15, 2015 19:21:04 GMT
Anthony is literally trying to quench Annies inner flame.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Apr 15, 2015 21:35:27 GMT
So, on the topic of worst case scenarios regarding Anthony. I've noticed in earlier update threads that people have said Anthony couldn't possibly have the power to actually enforce his threats. That he'd need the support of the Court to do much of what he said, and even if that support were given, it would really just make Anthony a messenger passing on the court's own judgement. I agree. Tony can say those things, yet they still have to pass muster with his superiors before they're enforced. But see, this all assumes Anthony is only what he appears to be: a new teacher at the court, with only the influence of his reputation as an alumnus to support his decisions. But...
What if, upon returning, he also became Headmaster?
Maybe Mr. Boredypants was just an interim headmaster, waiting for Tony to come back from whatever the hell he was doing, and then stepped aside. Or maybe they lured him back with the position. Or maybe Tony himself demanded it as a condition for returning. Whatever the case, that gives him the power he needs to make these sweeping decisions without having to go through any sort of backroom process. And as first order of business, Tony used his newfound power to declaw his daughter. As his first order of business. Next thing would be to address the threat Zimmy has shown to impose on the school (expelled). And then of course the robot issue (shut down, dismantled - except for boxbot). And then there's that pesky bridge to deal with (removed). Not to mention this ridiculous and frankly irresponsible magical creature exchange/cloning program the school has going on (cancelled). And without that and the bridge, there'd be no more need for a Court Medium (Smith: demoted). Oh and if he could just track down and eliminate the seed Bismuth, the Court would stop growing needlessly. Then finally, the Court could become a nice proper school where children focus on nothing but their schoolwork like they should be doing, and certainly not sneaking off to have "fun" or wasting precious study time interacting with all that Gillite Wood nonsense. Finally, Gunnerkrigg Court would be the perfect school!
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Post by keef on Apr 15, 2015 21:54:42 GMT
So yes, under the normal interpretation, Rey's symbol would become Anthony's symbol (my vote is for Arsenic or Magnesium, for the record, if he's represented by an element). Arsenic if the forum has a say in it. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Apr 15, 2015 22:59:25 GMT
A post by pxc made me ponder (wildly)... (and pardon me if this was already brought up in the din of the page threads) When Reynard jumps from one body to another, the first body dies. What if the Fire Elemental has the same or similar power? Did it originally possess a human female, the human female gave birth, and the Fire Elemental jumped to the child leaving the mother to die? Has the Fire Elemental has been repeating this cycle for generations? And as an aside, can Reynard have kids if he possess a women? I know there a number of reasons why the Fire Elemental is not like Reynard. The Fire Elemental doesn't appear to take full control like Reynard does (the child's personality is still evident). Annie and her mother co-existed for twelve years and I don't think we've seen an event that looks like a jump (it seems more like Annie and her mother shared the Fire Elemental spirit). But maybe there are enough similarities that Anthony wants to perform experiments on Reynard. If he can excise Reynard from a body without killing it, then he might be able to use the same technique to excise the Fire Elemental without killing Annie. Anthony probably knows what Anja, Donald, and Eglamore tried or considered before that failed. We know the Court has mice. After Anthony controls Reynard, Anthony could order Reynard to jump to a mouse (that Anthony owns), and conduct his exorcism. Anthony could have another mouse (that he also owns) ready for Reynard to jump if necessary so he could repeat the experiment as necessary. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Apr 16, 2015 0:04:00 GMT
I've read theories here that Kat is going to end up inventing the Tic Tocs via some kind of time travel. I say yes and no. I think the idea with human beliefs and the aether is that if a belief becomes strong enough, if needed, it becomes retroactively true. Like the stars being in the sky before someone thought up Coyote and decided he did it. So if it was Kat who made them, it will turn out that it was always Kat who made the Tic Tocs, no active, deliberate time travel required. Sort of like an ethereal retcon. Have you seen my favorite theory that I'm always promoting? (If not, check out the link in my signature.) Great minds. Guess I'll just say I agree with you, then!  |
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Post by brilliantgrey on Apr 16, 2015 1:03:51 GMT
So I dunno if this has been said before, but I am pretty 100% sure that the G-Crag (tm) is experimenting on the students.
The weirdly specialized dorms every year seem to me to be some sort of environmental variable to influence the student's development. In fact, everything about the school seems to be enforcing some sort of experimental structure on the students. Isolation? Check. Tracking monitors in food? Check. Even the occasional Spacemonaut adventure? It all seems to be teaching them very specific skills while growing them (in some cases literally-side eyes the body lab) in a very tightly controlled and specific environment. And the fact that we have seen very few adults or other people in the court who don't have something to do with the school makes me think that the entire Court is centered around the school and the students. (there was the dryad lady and the gardener, and a couple of staff at the aether station, but those are the only non-school-affiliated adults I can recall)
Even the lack of rats and animals could be attributed to the Court's desire to eliminate as many random variables from their experiment as possible. (the lack of animals has been brought up several times, either red herring or it's actually important)
Possibly there is some sort of larger scale plan connecting the students and the aether station? (I'm a fan of the 'Court is trying to move into another dimension' theory. Possible sticking everyone in New Zimmingham's pocket dimension?)
It would also fit into the overal 'chaos vs. order' narrative that the Court and the Forest have going on.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 3:46:25 GMT
Well, I remember that Tom's said somewhere that the Court is in fact much larger than the school, so there would be plenty of room for other things to be going on elsewhere that we just aren't seeing. But from a story point of view, the students in the Court do seem to be one of the most important parts of it; it's unclear if the Court higher-ups not directly involved with the business of school administration (the ones that we've never seen, above the Headmaster) are focusing much attention on the students.
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Post by warrl on Apr 16, 2015 6:17:55 GMT
After Anthony controls Reynard, Anthony could order Reynard to jump to a mouse (that Anthony owns), and conduct his exorcism. Anthony could have another mouse (that he also owns) ready for Reynard to jump if necessary so he could repeat the experiment as necessary. I don't think so. Annie controls Rey because the body he possesses is her property. When he jumps from one body to another, he jumps out of the first body and *then* into the second. For a brief period, he is in neither body. During that brief period, he would not be in a body that is someone else's property - and therefore is not controlled by anyone save himself. So an order to jump into some specific body would be void. And there will be at least one body with eyes, other than the hypothetical mouse's, present: the one he's jumping out of. Since it wasn't a living thing in the first place, it won't die when he leaves it. He can jump right back in. (Of course, there may be other bodies with eyes present.) |
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 16, 2015 7:13:57 GMT
After Anthony controls Reynard, Anthony could order Reynard to jump to a mouse (that Anthony owns), and conduct his exorcism. Anthony could have another mouse (that he also owns) ready for Reynard to jump if necessary so he could repeat the experiment as necessary. I don't think so. Annie controls Rey because the body he possesses is her property. When he jumps from one body to another, he jumps out of the first body and *then* into the second. For a brief period, he is in neither body. During that brief period, he would not be in a body that is someone else's property - and therefore is not controlled by anyone save himself. So an order to jump into some specific body would be void. And there will be at least one body with eyes, other than the hypothetical mouse's, present: the one he's jumping out of. Since it wasn't a living thing in the first place, it won't die when he leaves it. He can jump right back in. (Of course, there may be other bodies with eyes present.) Actually, even though I had previously said the opposite, and I'm quite sad to report this, I just reviewed the WoT and Tom has nixed us both: So Anthony could study Rey jumping if he gained control of the teddy, and control him still when he's in a new body. The mind shivers at the horrifying possibilities. However, according to other WoTs, if that object is stolen, the contract is broken altogether and Rey goes free. So if Kat or Annie wanted to free Rey later*, they could steal whatever Tony has moved him to and he would then be released. *that is assuming, of course, that the characters know as much about the rules of Rey's ownership as we the readers do. Also, food for thought: Source: |
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Post by keef on Apr 16, 2015 8:32:43 GMT
Well, I remember that Tom's said somewhere that the Court is in fact much larger than the school, so there would be plenty of room for other things to be going on elsewhere that we just aren't seeing. But from a story point of view, the students in the Court do seem to be one of the most important parts of it; it's unclear if the Court higher-ups not directly involved with the business of school administration (the ones that we've never seen, above the Headmaster) are focusing much attention on the students. . The odd thing is we only get to see the headmaster as an authority, and even Coyote has to make do with that leathery bag of bones (a sign the court does not take the forest seriously). |
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