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Post by rafk on Aug 29, 2022 14:00:23 GMT
Having reread some early chapters I can't help now but think that when Kat just assumes they can touch the stuff in Dr Disaster simulations due to "haptic feedback in their suits" (https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=169) this is wrong and the sims are "real" in some fashion.. In the retrospective for the Dr Disaster chapter, Tom actually said that he originally planned that Kat was going to give this whole tech-y explanation, only for it to be revealed at the end of the chapter that Randy is actually a powerful wizard and is doing it all through magic. He decided against it basically because it felt unnecessary, I think. Tom doesn't give away spoilers in the retrospectives. |
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Post by jda on Aug 29, 2022 17:31:18 GMT
Posting from another thread: Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia. Unfortunately, the mundanes seem to be the minority here, as Queslett and Thornhill are full of students with a "predetermination for Etheric Sciences" too. UNLESS /wildspec the thing about " No return, One way trip" says to wildspec-me than this NotOcean IS the ship, BUT NOT THE FUEL. THE FUEL FOR INTERPLANETARY VOYAGE IS... THE ETHER OF A PLANET. meaning that, when all the grey humans go into their little boat AND CLOSE THE WINDOWS SO NO ONE INSIDE CAN PEEK WHAT IS HAPPENNING ON EARTH*, the ships will just siphon all the Ether in the world (or at least a couple hundred miles around) like the Water Station, including the Forest, the Court, ... and all students/adults left behind. The failed attempt to capture Coyote's Ether and THIS page about The Court leaving thru the ocean: "Because it's a huge source of ether and if they can't get hold of him, THEY'RE GOING TO FIND AN EQUIVALENT POWER SOMEWHERE ELSE, NO MATTER THE COST." That'd fit: - why all the gathering of etheric beings/children in a small spaces and then leaving them mostly unattended,
- keeping the most etheric ones on separate houses so the "normal" children will not befriended them so much,
- the Water Station experiments to syphon the ether of "the very fabric of existence"
- trying to catch Loup/Coyote powers.
The MatrixCourt is a computerhuman generated dream world built to keep us under control in order to change a humanetheric being into this.  *meaning they don't see their friends/colleagues melt/disintegrate while being siphoned out of ether, so they wont feel guilty. No wonder there would be no communication with the Old "abandoned" Court... |
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Post by todd on Aug 29, 2022 17:51:22 GMT
*meaning they don't see their friends/colleagues melt/disintegrate while being siphoned out of ether, so they wont feel guilty. No wonder there would be no communication with the Old "abandoned" Court... And to also keep the "ordinary Court inhabitants" being evacuated from rising up in horror after realizing what the Court leadership had done. (It feels like an echo of the Court's cover-up of Jeanne's death, going to the point of pretending that Jeanne had never existed.) |
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novia
Full Member
Posts: 210
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Post by novia on Aug 31, 2022 15:03:16 GMT
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 15, 2022 14:18:45 GMT
Wild Speculation: Lana knew about "Jerrek" and Antimony going to see the Star Ocean because Antimony told Kat, Who is following the topic with some interest, then Kat told Lana. More Wild Speculation: Kat told Lana thinking that Lana would be excited to hear the news, and Kat was sort of right. |
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Post by speedwell on Sept 17, 2022 11:43:05 GMT
So... here, Loup/Jerrek's mind is struggling with the influence of a body... that's being viewed as an object by Lana's mind... because of how it's messed with by her unaccustomed new body... that was ultimately invented by the mind of Kat... doubtless inspired by the struggles Kat had figuring out what her own body wanted... a body that some here have speculated was influenced/created deliberately by the Court, or at least by the Donlans, to be an AI genius in the same vein as her probable relative Diego.
(counts on fingers) That makes, um, four nested iterations of "the mind is a plaything of the body". Five if you count the repercussions of Diego's unrequited attraction to Jeanne. OK, yeah, it's a bit contrived, but it was amusing to see how far down the rabbit hole I could go with it.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 18, 2022 3:04:56 GMT
Just for future reference: I think we can count on Lana, who apparently draws heavily on books for her knowledge of romance and human interaction, switching gears incredibly quickly if she decides Jerrek is a villain. Or a foil. Or a comedy relief supporting character. Or anything other than a ML, really. Also: I did notice that Lana says she wants Jerrek to be hers and doesn't want him to go with Antimony to the shore (or anywhere else, probably) but didn't say anything about wanting to be his anything, at least not so far. Not sure if that means she plans on stopping flirting (or displaying what boys like, or whatever) but that seemed important to her (is why she crafted her bod the way she did) so I expect not. She may even know what a reverse harem is and decide to try that route. Either way  |
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Post by pyradonis on Sept 18, 2022 20:56:33 GMT
Just for future reference: I think we can count on Lana, who apparently draws heavily on books for her knowledge of romance and human interaction, switching gears incredibly quickly if she decides Jerrek is a villain. [...] 50 quatloos on her simply deciding that she "can change him" in that case. |
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Post by maxptc on Sept 20, 2022 16:12:49 GMT
This is where we post the worst ideas we have about where the story can go right? Cool.
Next comic Annie responds in a completely unexpected way; "are you two exclusive?" Loup gives up this whole destroy the Court plan and dates two red heads, realizes along the way that was Coyote's great plan all along and dies years later without revealing his deception leaving Lana and Annie to grieve and comfort each other. They all just forget about the Loup threat after he goes a few years without doing anything. It's a metaphor or something.
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Post by pyradonis on Sept 20, 2022 17:33:15 GMT
This is where we post the worst ideas we have about where the story can go right? Cool. Next comic Annie responds in a completely unexpected way; "are you two exclusive?" Loup gives up this whole destroy the Court plan and dates two red heads, realizes along the way that was Coyote's great plan all along and dies years later without revealing his deception leaving Lana and Annie to grieve and comfort each other. They all just forget about the Loup threat after he goes a few years without doing anything. It's a metaphor or something. Last page, the last remaining figment of Coyote leaves Jerrek's grave, goes to Annie and desperately wants to explain what his grandiose plan was. Annie cuts him off with: "No... I understand."
End of comic. Thanks for reading! |
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Post by blahzor on Sept 26, 2022 14:40:15 GMT
reading this page again www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1317i wonder if Coyote killed Steadman and he died by tripping over him. so as a technicality coyote didn't kill him |
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Post by basser on Sept 27, 2022 4:56:37 GMT
A thought I had at work today: Kat time shenanigans are confirmed to be a regular thing cause the Norns said so. Kat is angry with the Court for several reasons. Kat has capacity for extreme degrees of moral flexibility. Making up some hot nonsense like an artistic metaphor space ocean and luring all the anti-magic racists into it to, I dunno, fling em into the sun, or drop a magic dog on em, would not be super out of character for Kat. Kat manifested in her Hyperdimensional Robot Goddess form while on a boat in the Star Ocean. As far as I recall this is the only time this form has ever been visible outside the ether. (Or, for that matter, visible to anyone besides Annie and Zimmy.) Aaaand for the sake of pulling in my Antimony=Zimmy theory again cause I just remembered about it, maybe Future Kat is the reason Annie became whatever Zimmy is. Oh gosh that would be dark as heck. Edit: While perusing archives I came upon this page and feel compelled to go HMMMM. If robot toucans can exist in temporal paradox why not magic arrows. |
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Post by blahzor on Sept 27, 2022 5:23:19 GMT
A thought I had at work today: Kat time shenanigans are confirmed to be a regular thing cause the Norns said so. Kat is angry with the Court for several reasons. Kat has capacity for extreme degrees of moral flexibility. Making up some hot nonsense like an artistic metaphor space ocean and luring all the anti-magic racists into it to, I dunno, fling em into the sun, or drop a magic dog on em, would not be super out of character for Kat. Kat manifested in her Hyperdimensional Robot Goddess form while on a boat in the Star Ocean. As far as I recall this is the only time this form has ever been visible outside the ether. (Or, for that matter, visible to anyone besides Annie and Zimmy.) Aaaand for the sake of pulling in my Antimony=Zimmy theory again cause I just remembered about it, maybe Future Kat is the reason Annie became whatever Zimmy is. Oh gosh that would be dark as heck. Edit: While perusing archives I came upon this page and feel compelled to go HMMMM. If robot toucans can exist in temporal paradox why not magic arrows. She appeared in her robot form only after the ether dust exploded. As it disappated did she appear normal. So even she needs ether energy source. Would also explain why around Zimmy (a energy source) she looks as robot form |
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Post by basser on Sept 27, 2022 5:44:08 GMT
Actually now I'm thinking about it - Zimmy saw her technogod form, she was in her technogod form when using the arrow, and she appeared in technogod form on the boat on the magic ocean inside a cloud of dust she created by zapping her own magic biotech. In other etheric situations like the ROTD or talking to Ghost Paralegal or at Norn Fountain she's been in her normal human form, even if she retains abilities like Making Things Boring (which she could do in the ROTD but not for Ghost Wall Lawyer - though perhaps just because the ROTD was an etheric veneer disguising regular unsent mortal spirits while Ghost Wall Lawyer and the Norns are appearing as their true selves. Which might then imply that the Arrow disguises its true nature using a similar trick to the ROTD, which would be an awfully convenient security feature if Kat is uniquely capable of seeing through it.)
So if Future God Kat has something to do with Zimmy and the Arrow and the Ocean then that might explain an otherwise confusing inconsistency regarding what circumstances trigger her god form.
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Post by blahzor on Sept 27, 2022 5:50:07 GMT
I'd say she has to be in direct contact with the source. Ala the boats cloud, or through Zimmy's eyes being filters by the blackness. She wouldn't have appeared in robot form unless she touched the ether stream because that's the real ether.
The Norns are basically a mirror. Like how Kat doesn't see Annie's fire as like paper mache but actual fire but she can't explain why it only burns what Annie chooses.
She's always around some form of ether in one way or the other and it's ambientness is not simplied simply because she's not trying to actively look at it. She couldn't read the robot code until she really tried and stop being frustrated
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Post by pyradonis on Sept 27, 2022 11:44:47 GMT
Building on other people's theories that the Star Ocean story is an elaborate con by the court's leaders, I propose the following...
- No one has crossed over. They invented the story of being able to erase all memories of a person who crossed over so they could conveniently claim people already did, even though their sales pitch was incredibly crappy. - They openly spread the knowledge of the Star Ocean and its "purpose" to get Loup to investigate and fall into their snare, which can't be moved to the Forest. - The last attempt to steal Loup's power was deliberately botched to entice Loup to investigate and get rid of that Ether-tainted Aata as leader of the Shadow Men. Either whoever interprets Omega's numbers lied about what they said, or at least the head honchos decided it was a great gambit after all - either it actually works, and they get Coyote's power earlier than anticipated, or it doesn't, and they get rid of Aata and lure Loup into the actual, much more sophisticated trap.
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Post by warrl on Sept 27, 2022 18:37:04 GMT
There's also suspicion that it's a con of the court's leaders.
Of course, they could be running a con on top of that...
If all these people leave and there can never be contact with them afterward, how does anyone who stayed behind know what happens after contact is lost? Perhaps they become a snack for Cthulhu...
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Post by blahzor on Sept 29, 2022 11:07:19 GMT
I fear this will be too simple of a thing. Annie will use the tooth to cut Coyote out of him ala the tooth cutting Shadow from the 2D plane. the resulting thing will be Coyote but devested of all his powers effectively making him a human (reality a NewPeople)
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 29, 2022 17:31:36 GMT
I fear this will be too simple of a thing. Annie will use the tooth to cut Coyote out of him ala the tooth cutting Shadow from the 2D plane. Using it to separate Loup back is a more feasible plan than Annie fighting Loup with it. Which is why it was discarded as “too obvious”. But then, of course, if it’s asking to be discarded as too obvious, it’s in fact unexpected, making this plausible as an un-twist. A typical Gunnerkrigg style strange loop! |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 6, 2022 3:39:58 GMT
This post by Runningflame reminded me about that conversation wherein Lana asks Robot if something's wrong with her. Now that we know Robot suspected Jerrek was "Loup" since the beginning, I am forced to wonder if he told her of his suspicion and she didn't believe him or didn't understand what he was saying, or if he didn't tell her and then made his bargain with "Loup" with Lana's safety in mind. Someone had to tell her about the "Loup" creature at some point. Did Robot know that Lana was jealous of Jerrek's attention towards Antimony? It's very possible that Robot is the individual in silhouetted in the door in panel 4 on this page so he could well have seen some Antimony/Jerrek interactions, and he's seen Lana and Jerrek hanging out, or she may have told him, or he may have picked up clues elsewhere from interacting with other New Persons. I wondered why Robot didn't include Kat and Antimony's safety in his bargain with "Loup" before but this puts a different spin on things. Not including the OG Diego robots or Seraphs might be explained by not wanting to ask for too much, or maybe thinking that their roles were more-or-less fulfilled so it wasn't a priority, and maybe Robot figured Antimony was safe, but not protecting the Angel? Weird. I've gotta speculate that Robot has some sort of machination going on that the flimsy bargain gives just enough time and/or slack to bring to completion or at least make feasible. The focus of that appears to be Lana; my best guess in absence of other information is that Robot shipped Lana/Jerrek under the banner of New Person advancement and that her experiences, whatever the outcome, would be worth the risk. Robot probably also took other steps to safeguard Kat, probably using the Seraphs again, potentially using Kat's Louptrapping tech. Love makes you do strange things, yes?
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 6, 2022 10:10:13 GMT
Someone had to tell her about the "Loup" creature at some point. I'd assume that by this point it is common knowledge who caused this massive destruction and was the reason the robots went to put up a shield and were subsequently all turned into NP. But Lana was also personally invited to take part in the attempt at trapping him. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 6, 2022 18:39:22 GMT
Someone had to tell her about the "Loup" creature at some point. I'd assume that by this point it is common knowledge who caused this massive destruction and was the reason the robots went to put up a shield and were subsequently all turned into NP. That's what I thought too but now I think there's reason to question it. When exactly did the Noomans (Lana in particular) learn the name "Loup" and not conflate the current menace with the better-known long-running menaces Ysengrin or Coyote? For example, Idra in Ch. 74 is saying "Ysengrin" though the Antimonies said "Loup" on the very next page so, although Idra had heard the name before at the end of Ch. 72, some people are not identifying the threat as "Loup" even though they know more-or-less what's going on. Even though there's nothing particularly urgent going on at that moment Antimonies don't bother to correct her. We see Kat say "Loup" in Ch. 76 so that's one possible source. Arthur didn't appear to remember anything that happened after the shield order, as Lana called it, until he woke up in his new body. "Loup" doesn't (re)introduce himself as such until well after that in Ch. 68. Before that Antimony's still saying "Ysengrin" and so is everybody else. Hopefully Robot would have had the Noomans and Seraphs watching for signs of infiltration or surveillance by shapeshifting Wood creatures, not specifically "Loup" prior to Ch. 81-82. Jerrek's first appearance in the comic was Ch. 83 page 3 (aka #2550) and there's Noomans running around to disguise oneself as, so that and the out-of-chronological-order bit in Ch. 84 here (start of Ch.84) where we see "Loup" disguising himself, had to take place after the events of Ch. 71, but potentially before Ch. 75 since there's been multiple transfers before that point. My point(s) is/are, 1. I think it's very possible Lana does not have a clear picture of how potentially dangerous "Loup" is, and may not even connect him to Ysengrin, and 2. that Robot knows more than he told Lana, though perhaps not at the time she asked Robot about her feelings, and going by Lana's words/deeds Robot elected to not inform her of the danger, or if he did maybe he framed things in a weird way or made critical omissions. I think it's very likely Robot held back information from Lana. See previous post for my wild speculation on why. Or maybe he did tell her most everything and she didn't believe him or didn't understand, but I sorta doubt it. Hopefully the next update will clue us in a bit on how much Lana knows/knew. The Norns said, time isn't important, only the events. But knowing the order of events may point us towards things we don't currently know, or better understanding of things we think we know. True, but if Jerrek enthusiastically volunteered to spend time with Antimony and Lana tagged along, how much explanation would they have needed to help? Kat ran the actual trapping, Renard was the lure, Antimony was the life insurance policy, but they may have only told Jerrek and Lana, "Um, okay, you guys can use these digging tools to build a blind we can hide in." Humans would have probably been very curious and would ask a lot of follow-up questions, particularly if the concept of trapping someone/something came up, but I'm not sure about the former-robot Noomans. |
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Post by alevice on Oct 6, 2022 19:24:46 GMT
 I wonde rif the moutnainers are on the tunnel thing. And maybe the teachers were sent as scouts for the new world? Assuming they got skills like Eglamore does |
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 8, 2022 13:14:21 GMT
True, but if Jerrek enthusiastically volunteered to spend time with Antimony and Lana tagged along, how much explanation would they have needed to help? Kat ran the actual trapping, Renard was the lure, Antimony was the life insurance policy, but they may have only told Jerrek and Lana, "Um, okay, you guys can use these digging tools to build a blind we can hide in." Humans would have probably been very curious and would ask a lot of follow-up questions, particularly if the concept of trapping someone/something came up, but I'm not sure about the former-robot Noomans. You think they asked two NP to come along and help trap an extremely powerful and incredibly volatile God-creature without explaining who they were trying to trap and what it was capable of? I would think Annie learned from last time, when she lost two friends (okay, "friends") after having them come along on a dangerous mission. |
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Post by speedwell on Oct 8, 2022 15:47:14 GMT
True, but if Jerrek enthusiastically volunteered to spend time with Antimony and Lana tagged along, how much explanation would they have needed to help? Kat ran the actual trapping, Renard was the lure, Antimony was the life insurance policy, but they may have only told Jerrek and Lana, "Um, okay, you guys can use these digging tools to build a blind we can hide in." Humans would have probably been very curious and would ask a lot of follow-up questions, particularly if the concept of trapping someone/something came up, but I'm not sure about the former-robot Noomans. You think they asked two NP to come along and help trap an extremely powerful and incredibly volatile God-creature without explaining who they were trying to trap and what it was capable of? I would think Annie learned from last time, when she lost two friends (okay, "friends") after having them come along on a dangerous mission. (slaps on a sheepskin wig and clears her throat) "On the contrary, sir, your client the defendant shows a clear and ongoing pattern of disregarding the safety and even the consent of parties who, but for her manipulation and omissions, would never have been involved at all. I personally find it all too likely that she would find it expedient to do so again if she thought it necessary."
That's a little "devil's advocate", but yeah, I think Annie mostly tends to write a script in her head for how she wants things to happen, recruit her actors, forget to hand out the lines, and then lose it when the scene turns tragic. I say this with love, of course.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Oct 10, 2022 9:47:39 GMT
I'm thinking of Tea and her friend's pages (which we usually get when each comic volume ends). In every appearance they engage in various activities taking place in the vast deserted areas which seem to be abandoned Court territories. Maybe they were stuck in this pocket dimension when original Court left? Oooo now this is a spicy and fascinating theory. Made me seek out all the end-of-book Tea pages, and there's definitely a case for it - but also some concerning things if that is indeed the case. Book 1 - Tea and her friend in Court school uniforms, looking to the stars (!) with a telescope and seemingly unhurt. Book 2 - Tea and her friend rowing beside what could be the Court with fighter planes coming in overhead. Book 3 - Tea and her friend looking dirty and tired in an open field, something is smoking in the distance. Not a very Court-y landscape but could be an area like where the kids went camping that time. Book 4 - Tea and her friend in an arctic landscape. Definitely not very Court-y or pocket dimension-y, especially with what we have just learned about the weather. Book 5 - Tea and her friend have gone full post-apocalyptic road trip. Looking battered. Again, the landscape is not very Court-like - for one, I don't believe we've ever seen regular cars or roads like that in the Court. Book 6 - Tea and her friend in another open landscape, digging holes in search of something. Book 7 - Tea and her friend in a lighthouse, looking out across an ocean that has been drained of water (!) Book 8 - Tea and her friend back in a place that could be the Court, climbing around the outside of a building. If the Tea story really is a 'glimpse into the future' after the Court's departure, it suggests that what the Court is doing now has ramifications far beyond the 'pocket dimension', since it's especially hard to make a case for the settings of books 4-5 being within the Court. Books 3 and 6 I'm also skeptical of being set there, though they could be places like the park where the kids went camping. If we take it as a story in chronological order, they start out as students in the Court in Book 1, something apocalyptic happens in Books 2 and 3, and then they seem to go off elsewhere in search of something in Books 4-6, before possibly returning to the abandoned Court in book 7 or 8. The book 7 page is particularly interesting now after what we've learned about the star ocean and the plans to "close" it once the Court has departed. Of course, this should probably go in wildspec, because it could equally be a glimpse into an alternate timeline or a story which is only semi-related to this one. Bringing this here in anticipation of a new Tea page. |
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Post by saardvark on Oct 10, 2022 13:45:05 GMT
also placed in [2686] but maybe belongs here(?):
ok, here's a weird idea (probably totally wrong, as most of these types are):
We all know Coyote never lies, but can warp the truth into such a pretzel it's hard to recognize. What if it was his big plan was for him to experience death, and through Loup,
to experience love? And in experiencing love, Loup is "killed", in the sense that his Jerrek persona takes over completely, powered by that love? And Loup acquiesces,
thinking it a good plan, since he enjoys the experience too (it's more pleasant than being boring tantrum toddler Loup, who everyone dislikes...). And Annie has "killed" Loup,
in a very minor, accidental way, by stirring jealous feelings in Lana and facilitating this meeting of two of them.
EDIT: added " " to "killed" Loup, since (as Pyradonis pointed out) of course, Annie is supposed to do this for real with the giggle tooth later. Here it is just a metaphorical
killing of Loup's control over Jerrek.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Oct 14, 2022 9:39:34 GMT
Oooo now this is a spicy and fascinating theory. Made me seek out all the end-of-book Tea pages, and there's definitely a case for it - but also some concerning things if that is indeed the case. Book 1 - Tea and her friend in Court school uniforms, looking to the stars (!) with a telescope and seemingly unhurt. Book 2 - Tea and her friend rowing beside what could be the Court with fighter planes coming in overhead. Book 3 - Tea and her friend looking dirty and tired in an open field, something is smoking in the distance. Not a very Court-y landscape but could be an area like where the kids went camping that time. Book 4 - Tea and her friend in an arctic landscape. Definitely not very Court-y or pocket dimension-y, especially with what we have just learned about the weather. Book 5 - Tea and her friend have gone full post-apocalyptic road trip. Looking battered. Again, the landscape is not very Court-like - for one, I don't believe we've ever seen regular cars or roads like that in the Court. Book 6 - Tea and her friend in another open landscape, digging holes in search of something. Book 7 - Tea and her friend in a lighthouse, looking out across an ocean that has been drained of water (!) Book 8 - Tea and her friend back in a place that could be the Court, climbing around the outside of a building. If the Tea story really is a 'glimpse into the future' after the Court's departure, it suggests that what the Court is doing now has ramifications far beyond the 'pocket dimension', since it's especially hard to make a case for the settings of books 4-5 being within the Court. Books 3 and 6 I'm also skeptical of being set there, though they could be places like the park where the kids went camping. If we take it as a story in chronological order, they start out as students in the Court in Book 1, something apocalyptic happens in Books 2 and 3, and then they seem to go off elsewhere in search of something in Books 4-6, before possibly returning to the abandoned Court in book 7 or 8. The book 7 page is particularly interesting now after what we've learned about the star ocean and the plans to "close" it once the Court has departed. Of course, this should probably go in wildspec, because it could equally be a glimpse into an alternate timeline or a story which is only semi-related to this one. Bringing this here in anticipation of a new Tea page. If this page for Book 9 isn't confirmation that the Tea pages are happening after the conclusion of the events of Gunnerkrigg Court, and Tea and her friend are searching for something or conducting some kind of investigation to follow the trails of the story, I don't know what is. Doesn't that look suspiciously like a broken-down version of the trains that featured prominently in this chapter and previous ones? Upon review, there are some key differences between this structure and the trains... hmm. |
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 14, 2022 10:37:33 GMT
Like I said in the discussion thread, it's definitely a wrecked airplane.
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Post by speedwell on Oct 15, 2022 19:03:06 GMT
Tea is a New Person.
What?
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