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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jul 3, 2020 11:59:23 GMT
Oh, that's interesting. Of course we are playing fast and loose time-wise these days, heh. 11 years old... in Kat years!
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Post by warrl on Jul 3, 2020 23:55:45 GMT
Also, remember that now Annie is six months younger than Annie.
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Post by blahzor on Jul 4, 2020 5:28:41 GMT
anyone know where the omega device was mentioned before page 1689? for annie to bring it up to Parley?
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Post by Gotolei on Jul 4, 2020 6:16:37 GMT
anyone know where the omega device was mentioned before page 1689? for annie to bring it up to Parley? 1547. During Annie And The Fire, in which Donald had her hitch a ride using the blinker stone while he had a chat with Tony.
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Post by blahzor on Jul 4, 2020 11:57:18 GMT
coo coo
also i'm thinking that Kat will send the thousand eyes back into the past but she won't be picking the location or time it does herself. That older Smitty will be affecting it to send it to the "correct" time
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Post by blahzor on Jul 5, 2020 19:19:43 GMT
Omega wildness the entire comic isn't a change of a timeline but just a entire dimension created by a Kat with some variable changes running as a simulation of her computer to find out WHAT would change if she did do time travel. she would not just act without some information so this is just a thing she's doing. the birds are representation of her computer, Jones is the analyst program
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Post by avurai on Jul 9, 2020 21:10:32 GMT
What if Jones is a version of Annie who got sent back in time? She definitely has young Antimony’s unflappable demeanor, and perhaps if you strip her of her fire without killing her it leaves her immortal. My insane theory is that Jones is a construct of ethereal sciences designed by Kat, somewhat similar to Arthur, with Antimony’s consciousness sewn into it and then sent back in time to provide Kat with enough knowledge of the Court and worldly history to empower Kat with enough intel to make plans for the Tik Toks to follow. And Jones will only become aware of all of this in a few chapters when Kat figures it all out and demands a long storytelling sequence. In the ensuing conversation, Kat will gain enough knowledge from Jones to be able to program the Tik Toks to travel to specific places at specific times. And, if Annie’s crush really is Eglamore, it would explain Jones having him as her ‘companion’. And it means Annie was technically present when Mort died in World War II and even was responsible for him becoming a ghost instead of passing through to the other side, and even may explain his subconscious level of attachment to young Antimony, which has a poetry to it that I quite appreciate. Support of my theory in both these pages: Example 1, the last two panels. This might be literally what happened. Annie was stripped of her fire, her connection to the ether cut off, and then molded into a new form. Jones. Example two, this whole page. Annie has learned enough about herself to recognize someone who thinks they’re emotionless when really they just don’t understand their feelings. Or don’t want them to be there. And Jones takes a moment to recognize this thought. And she accepts it, even grateful to be made cognizant of it. I think this scene has a deeper meaning than assumed on the first read. Another fun piece of evidence? Look at the length of Jones hair. Who’s hair is currently that length? There’s only one. Except, well. There are two of them. But only one has that hair-length at the moment.
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Post by shaihulud on Jul 10, 2020 1:55:35 GMT
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Post by wies on Jul 10, 2020 7:33:51 GMT
Oh neat! Though the fourth page feels less connected, yeah.
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Post by avurai on Jul 10, 2020 8:33:20 GMT
Oh neat! Though the fourth page feels less connected, yeah. This is the meeting that makes Annie the Forest’s medium instead of the Court’s. Something tells me maybe that’s relevant. . . Perhaps the Headmaster is being told what to do by Future Kat in secret?
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Post by wies on Jul 10, 2020 9:53:29 GMT
This is the meeting that makes Annie the Forest’s medium instead of the Court’s. Something tells me maybe that’s relevant. . . Perhaps the Headmaster is being told what to do by Future Kat in secret? I hope it not to be revealed everything was done by Future Kat, but even if so, I think the fourth page is still weird because the other three are ominous and feature the Tic-Toc.
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Post by shaihulud on Jul 10, 2020 15:31:34 GMT
My wild spec. is that we will be time traveling back to that meeting scene too at some point.
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Post by shaihulud on Jul 17, 2020 15:50:54 GMT
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Post by rumrum on Jul 21, 2020 5:05:21 GMT
Have we established whether Arthur style “new robots” can generate ether? It has some interesting implications for Kat.
If human beliefs can break causality and make coyote place the stars before humanity is born, what will robot believe make out of Kat their angel. Is she getting slowly infused by the ether? Is that what zimmy sees?
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Post by wies on Jul 21, 2020 5:22:50 GMT
Welcome rumrum! And yeah, good speculation. That is also the general consensus of the forums to what caused that vision of Zimmy. If you want to read and/or speculate more on that, you can visit this thread here! Lots of information and speculation there.
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Post by Gemminie on Jul 26, 2020 13:47:22 GMT
Have we established whether Arthur style “new robots” can generate ether? It has some interesting implications for Kat. If human beliefs can break causality and make coyote place the stars before humanity is born, what will robot believe make out of Kat their angel. Is she getting slowly infused by the ether? Is that what zimmy sees? My theory about this: the androids (that's what I'm calling the evolved robots, since that's what Kat was calling them when she got the idea) aren't altering the ether with their beliefs yet, but that hardly matters, because eventually, someday, some of the android believers will die and be taken into the ether, taking with them their legends of the angel and what she did, and the ether will affect Kat in the past. So it doesn't matter precisely when those believers die. I think Robot has told stories about amazing things Kat has done and will continue to tell them, and those stories will effectively make those things happen. The times we've seen Kat's machine angel form have all been times when Robot was present, though not necessarily directly involved. The times we've seen Kat in the ether without being a machine angel have mainly been times when Robot wasn't around. But who will become the androids' spirit guide? The psychopomps may not deal in electrical appliances, but the androids aren't just those anymore. Will it be Annie? I seem to recall reading some speculation about this question. This could be why the psychopomps are so interested in Annie specifically. Now, whether all of this is a plot by the Court to create a deity of their own to oppose Coyote/Loup is another question. Will they allow Robot's mythmaking and proselytizing to continue, then pick a few androids to sacrifice? The Court may or may not yet know about the androids' existence, but sooner or later they'll find out, and it would make sense for someone to eventually get this idea.
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Post by netherdan on Jul 26, 2020 22:55:46 GMT
Now, whether all of this is a plot by the Court to create a deity of their own to oppose Coyote/Loup is another question. Will they allow Robot's mythmaking and proselytizing to continue, then pick a few androids to sacrifice? The Court may or may not yet know about the androids' existence, but sooner or later they'll find out, and it would make sense for someone to eventually get this idea. It would make sense if they either know about Coyote's "secret" or have come to the same conclusion through other means (i.e. research into "etheric sciences"). So far I believe the only ones to know are Jones and Annie, and Jones has a reason not to tell her hosts at the Court.
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Post by jda on Jul 27, 2020 4:25:50 GMT
Now, whether all of this is a plot by the Court to create a deity of their own to oppose Coyote/Loup is another question. Will they allow Robot's mythmaking and proselytizing to continue, then pick a few androids to sacrifice? More like Robot will have a believers inner circle, very willing to self-immolate, to advance their deity's path. It would be worth it.
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Post by wies on Jul 27, 2020 7:09:48 GMT
Ouch, that would be dark. I wonder when Kat will discover that there has been a whole cult sprung up around her. Poor Kat is in for yet another unsettling discovery about herself.
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Post by blahzor on Jul 28, 2020 12:35:34 GMT
Have we established whether Arthur style “new robots” can generate ether? It has some interesting implications for Kat. If human beliefs can break causality and make coyote place the stars before humanity is born, what will robot believe make out of Kat their angel. Is she getting slowly infused by the ether? Is that what zimmy sees? My theory about this: the androids (that's what I'm calling the evolved robots, since that's what Kat was calling them when she got the idea) aren't altering the ether with their beliefs yet, but that hardly matters, because eventually, someday, some of the android believers will die and be taken into the ether, taking with them their legends of the angel and what she did, and the ether will affect Kat in the past. So it doesn't matter precisely when those believers die. I think Robot has told stories about amazing things Kat has done and will continue to tell them, and those stories will effectively make those things happen. The times we've seen Kat's machine angel form have all been times when Robot was present, though not necessarily directly involved. The times we've seen Kat in the ether without being a machine angel have mainly been times when Robot wasn't around. But who will become the androids' spirit guide? The psychopomps may not deal in electrical appliances, but the androids aren't just those anymore. Will it be Annie? I seem to recall reading some speculation about this question. This could be why the psychopomps are so interested in Annie specifically. Now, whether all of this is a plot by the Court to create a deity of their own to oppose Coyote/Loup is another question. Will they allow Robot's mythmaking and proselytizing to continue, then pick a few androids to sacrifice? The Court may or may not yet know about the androids' existence, but sooner or later they'll find out, and it would make sense for someone to eventually get this idea. the tragic one would be Shadow would be the psychopomps for the newly living androids i think Kat's goddesshood will be the androids believe filling her up with ether that would allow her every thought come into being at it's peak like Coyote. the opposite of Jones the absolute lack of ether (something all living things should have)
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Post by rumrum on Jul 29, 2020 5:12:19 GMT
The court is creating Jones.
My view is that the court is not creating Kat or even interested in her. What they are trying to do is inject rationality into the ether to enable them to control it.
Magic works by belief, not the belief of the person working it, but by the collective believe of man. So what happens when you try to build a magic framework. You take collected ether infuse it with rationality and rules and such and send it back to the ether.
But it’s not going to work, the cold hard rationality of man will make Jones.
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Post by rumrum on Jul 29, 2020 5:15:23 GMT
Ps. The guides want Annie to be an arbitrator, same as what they asked her before.
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Post by speedwell on Jul 29, 2020 6:49:38 GMT
The court is creating Jones. My view is that the court is not creating Kat or even interested in her. What they are trying to do is inject rationality into the ether to enable them to control it. Magic works by belief, not the belief of the person working it, but by the collective believe of man. So what happens when you try to build a magic framework. You take collected ether infuse it with rationality and rules and such and send it back to the ether. But it’s not going to work, the cold hard rationality of man will make Jones. Jones is cognitive dissonance personified, heh. She claims not to know what she is, but she makes claims about her nature that she clearly is not in a position to know, or that are even false. "Not alive"? Besides the whole "walking talking thinking" thing, if her hair grows, she is obviously alive. "No emotions"? Pardon me, folks, but we know that's absolute [bullhockey]. I personally think she takes the "I am a stone" thing a bit too far and that it's the social equivalent of protective colouring. Rational, my [tush].
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Post by Gemminie on Jul 29, 2020 12:55:13 GMT
The court is creating Jones. My view is that the court is not creating Kat or even interested in her. What they are trying to do is inject rationality into the ether to enable them to control it. Magic works by belief, not the belief of the person working it, but by the collective believe of man. So what happens when you try to build a magic framework. You take collected ether infuse it with rationality and rules and such and send it back to the ether. But it’s not going to work, the cold hard rationality of man will make Jones. Jones is cognitive dissonance personified, heh. She claims not to know what she is, but she makes claims about her nature that she clearly is not in a position to know, or that are even false. "Not alive"? Besides the whole "walking talking thinking" thing, if her hair grows, she is obviously alive. "No emotions"? Pardon me, folks, but we know that's absolute [bullhockey]. I personally think she takes the "I am a stone" thing a bit too far and that it's the social equivalent of protective colouring. Rational, my [tush]. But does her hair grow? It doesn't seem to need to. My take on her emotions is that she may not experience emotions like those humans do, but she wa nts to, and a desire is an emotion, which suggests to me that she experiences emotions unlike those humans do. Curiosity is debatably an emotion, and she clearly has that. Something I've recently wondered is whether Coyote's dagger could cut Jones' hair (or any part of her at all; a strand of hair would be a good test). Or would attempting to do so cause something else to happen? Nuclear explosion? Intervention from an ethereal department we've never heard of? Some sort of fate constantly intervenes to prevent the test from occurring? The test shaves part of Jones' shadow off but leaves her untouched?
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Post by Gemminie on Jul 29, 2020 13:17:43 GMT
Ps. The guides want Annie to be an arbitrator, same as what they asked her before. Well the thing about this is, the suggestion is pretty strong that in the past they've asked Surma to do that too, which probably means the psychopomps have asked the same of various ancestors of Annie and Surma even farther in the past. Yet never before have the psychopomps pushed one of them to free Jeanne, or Jeanne would surely have been freed earlier. Something's special about Annie that they want, or something's special about the current era that causes them to need the current scion of the fire spirit line to work exclusively for them. One guess is that it's the emergence of the androids, a new ethereally-connected population that has no psychopomp yet. What if each life form that is born takes a bit of Ether to generate, and when each life form dies, the appropriate psychopomp returns that to the Ether, but changed, and that change keeps the Ether alive, or "spinning," as they might put it? And any ghost who remains in the world after death represents a piece of Ether changed by life but separate from the whole; the Ether could be spinning that much more, but it isn't. An entire population without a psychopomp would mean that every single one of them becomes a ghost when they die -- a species unrepresented by a psychopomp is like an unending drain on the Ether. What's more, several psychopomps died trying to reclaim Jeanne -- are there entire groups of ghosts somewhere that aren't being returned, or have the other psychopomps had to take up the slack? Their increased workload might mean the psychopomps need more to replenish their numbers, but that isn't a new situation; losing psychopomps to Jeanne has been happening for a long time. I'm still thinking that they want Annie because of the advent of the androids.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 29, 2020 13:31:52 GMT
Yeah, if Jones really had no desires she wouldn't be able to move. She probably has emotions but because of her age and experiences they're rarefied, and may have been so since before she met any other intelligent being. Jones is cognitive dissonance personified, heh. She claims not to know what she is, but she makes claims about her nature that she clearly is not in a position to know, or that are even false. "Not alive"? Besides the whole "walking talking thinking" thing, if her hair grows, she is obviously alive. "No emotions"? Pardon me, folks, but we know that's absolute [bullhockey]. I personally think she takes the "I am a stone" thing a bit too far and that it's the social equivalent of protective colouring. Rational, my [tush]. But does her hair grow? It doesn't seem to need to. My take on her emotions is that she may not experience emotions like those humans do, but she wa nts to, and a desire is an emotion, which suggests to me that she experiences emotions unlike those humans do. Curiosity is debatably an emotion, and she clearly has that. Something I've recently wondered is whether Coyote's dagger could cut Jones' hair (or any part of her at all; a strand of hair would be a good test). Or would attempting to do so cause something else to happen? Nuclear explosion? Intervention from an ethereal department we've never heard of? Some sort of fate constantly intervenes to prevent the test from occurring? The test shaves part of Jones' shadow off but leaves her untouched? My longtime wildspec is that Jones is an oxbow-lake of etheric flow, a one-time event that happened because the Gunnerverse contains both matter and ether and humans were inevitable. I think that any change that Jones suffers would be both destructive and catastrophic like a Zimmingham-to-end-all-Zimminghams* but based on things from her experiences instead of Zimmy's, obviously, and possibly permanent. I could easily imagine the creation of a new magic area, probably bigger and stronger than the Court/Wood and way more chaotic. Jones might even continue to exist inside it, maybe riding on dinosaurs and wrestling bison. *Except, of course, if it was something powerful enough to destroy Jones it might be powerful enough to purposefully not destroy Jones. Coyote, for example, could probably give Jones a crappy haircut and permit it to grow out later. Kat, on the other hand, could probably devise a method to pluck a single strand of hair for science but probably couldn't stop or control the resulting blast of primal ether... at least not as Kat is now.
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Post by rumrum on Jul 29, 2020 22:27:25 GMT
The court is creating Jones. My view is that the court is not creating Kat or even interested in her. What they are trying to do is inject rationality into the ether to enable them to control it. Magic works by belief, not the belief of the person working it, but by the collective believe of man. So what happens when you try to build a magic framework. You take collected ether infuse it with rationality and rules and such and send it back to the ether. But it’s not going to work, the cold hard rationality of man will make Jones. Jones is cognitive dissonance personified, heh. She claims not to know what she is, but she makes claims about her nature that she clearly is not in a position to know, or that are even false. "Not alive"? Besides the whole "walking talking thinking" thing, if her hair grows, she is obviously alive. "No emotions"? Pardon me, folks, but we know that's absolute [bullhockey]. I personally think she takes the "I am a stone" thing a bit too far and that it's the social equivalent of protective colouring. Rational, my [tush]. And you think humans are rational? She is someone’s idea of rationality
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Post by Runningflame on Jul 30, 2020 0:14:33 GMT
Coyote, for example, could probably give Jones a crappy haircut and permit it to grow out later. Haha! That's quite a mental image. I'm picturing a cross between Exhibit A and Exhibit B.
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Post by speedwell on Jul 30, 2020 5:10:55 GMT
Jones is cognitive dissonance personified, heh. She claims not to know what she is, but she makes claims about her nature that she clearly is not in a position to know, or that are even false. "Not alive"? Besides the whole "walking talking thinking" thing, if her hair grows, she is obviously alive. "No emotions"? Pardon me, folks, but we know that's absolute [bullhockey]. I personally think she takes the "I am a stone" thing a bit too far and that it's the social equivalent of protective colouring. Rational, my [tush]. And you think humans are rational? She is someone’s idea of rationality Since I absolutely, certainly do NOT think humans are naturally rational, the fact that Jones may be someone's (erroneous) idea of rationality is really neither here nor there. Particularly given the fact that she does do things that are not entirely rational (and if she did exclusively do rational things, she would be an unviable and useless character).
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Post by pyradonis on Jul 30, 2020 18:08:04 GMT
The court is creating Jones. My view is that the court is not creating Kat or even interested in her. What they are trying to do is inject rationality into the ether to enable them to control it. Magic works by belief, not the belief of the person working it, but by the collective believe of man. So what happens when you try to build a magic framework. You take collected ether infuse it with rationality and rules and such and send it back to the ether. But it’s not going to work, the cold hard rationality of man will make Jones. Jones is cognitive dissonance personified, heh. She claims not to know what she is, but she makes claims about her nature that she clearly is not in a position to know, or that are even false. "Not alive"? Besides the whole "walking talking thinking" thing, if her hair grows, she is obviously alive. "No emotions"? Pardon me, folks, but we know that's absolute [bullhockey]. I personally think she takes the "I am a stone" thing a bit too far and that it's the social equivalent of protective colouring. Rational, my [tush]. Her hair is the exact same length in every panel and every era she appears in, and she says it can not be cut, removed or anything. What makes you think it grows? As far as emotions go, her emotions seem similar to those Data experiences without an emotion chip installed. Desires, confusion or curiosity seem to work.
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