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Post by shaihulud on Apr 18, 2020 4:35:21 GMT
With all of the speculation that Coyote's tooth is supposed to be used to separate Coyote from Ysengrin, what Coyote actually called it was a gift. That makes me wonder if maybe it is literally one of Coyote's Gifts, in a magical sense, like the one he gave to Renardine.
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Post by aquamafia on May 25, 2020 8:11:12 GMT
Wildspec that Zimmy is actually a time traveled Kat from the future who went mad with godlike power. I'm basing this solely on the fact that they both have black hair, yessir.
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Post by wies on May 25, 2020 8:31:12 GMT
Heh, so we have Basser's theory of Zimmy being Annie and now yours of her being Katerina!
Zimmy is a gal with much potential!
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Post by pyradonis on May 25, 2020 13:48:11 GMT
New one:
When Ysengrin found and buried the tic-toc, he was suspecting his actions and/or memory were being manipulated. So, he ate the two fairies to make sure they ended up in the Court with the knowledge of what had just happened, disguising that action as him following his instincts ("he was hungry") and getting them out from under the radar of whoever was manipulating him.
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Post by saardvark on May 25, 2020 16:43:36 GMT
Jeanne could somehow sense timeline change/damage. Its why she crossed the Annan... she saw Annie fall to her death, which Jeanne realized was supposed to be her fate, and yet Annie is caught by a tic-toc and falls into the river. Jeanne can sense living things... she goes rage-ghost and attacks them! So why doesnt she attack Annie right away? It could be because of Annie's "etheric attractiveness", but maybe she is puzzled that she senses a living Annie, who should be dead. So she crosses the Annan, and in puzzlement, nicks Annie with her sword see if she is alive (she could have been a ghost, and ghosts don't bleed). (Otherwise, why would Jeanne cut her if she was swooning from her "etheric attractiveness"?)
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Post by wies on May 25, 2020 19:02:04 GMT
That is interesting! And also a neat fit to my theory of Annie being compelled to free Jeanne because she too senses on some level that something weird happened (her staying alive) happened there and she wants to get rid of that feeling too.
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Post by warrl on May 25, 2020 19:21:00 GMT
Heh, so we have Basser's theory of Zimmy being Annie and now yours of her being Katerina! Zimmy is a gal with much potential! It is now mandatory that someone - might as well be me - suggest that all three are actually Coyote.
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Post by TBeholder on May 25, 2020 20:04:04 GMT
«And then the goose's wife remembered: she was Zimmy, too!»
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Post by wies on May 25, 2020 20:25:28 GMT
I recently read someone theorizing Zimmy could also be a part of Gamma.
What if...of course the resemblance is there, and we saw them never in the same room...., and the same hair color and gruff demeanor..., what if Zimmy is Eglamore?!
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Post by bedinsis on May 25, 2020 20:39:35 GMT
I've already posted this theory in the thread for page 1786, but it might bear repeating in the appropriate thread: When Annie got the blinker stone she was mightily upset when she found out that can be considered a way to claim somebody. I don't know if this aspect of her personality has been explored at another time or if that was just a generalized annoyance at people taking liberties, or, and here's where the theory comes in, it signifies something the comic has yet to explore. The theory I had was that at one point in the past Annie's ancestor agreed to become a psychopomp once she perished. Then she became with child, and the contract was left unresolved, since her life force/soul was never harvested and used to make the world spin. The Psychopomps however still think they have a claim on her services, and after Surma's passing claimed that she would join them once she died. Annie got upset, and refused. This is what they want from her, for she to fulfil her ancestor's agreement. Since she has inherited her life energy from that ancestor it could be argued that she is on the same agreement. Continuing from this theory: When Muut said he had business nearby, he was expecting to Guide the dead Annie. Whether it was to let her join their ranks or keep the world spinning I don't know. Then again, I've always taken Muut's statement to be him intending to Guide the Shadowman, so maybe this is based on nothing.
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Post by wies on May 25, 2020 20:49:31 GMT
I always thought he meant the Shadowman too.
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Post by hnau on May 26, 2020 7:04:42 GMT
Jeanne could somehow sense timeline change/damage. Its why she crossed the Annan... she saw Annie fall to her death, which Jeanne realized was supposed to be her fate, and yet Annie is caught by a tic-toc and falls into the river. Jeanne can sense living things... she goes rage-ghost and attacks them! So why doesnt she attack Annie right away? It could be because of Annie's "etheric attractiveness", but maybe she is puzzled that she senses a living Annie, who should be dead. So she crosses the Annan, and in puzzlement, nicks Annie with her sword see if she is alive (she could have been a ghost, and ghosts don't bleed). (Otherwise, why would Jeanne cut her if she was swooning from her "etheric attractiveness"?) So, Kat created the alternative timelines, not Loup. As with the contract, she did not understand fully what she was doing. As a result, we now have multiple Annies, and it's all HER fault. No wonder, she is stressed out.
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Post by pyradonis on May 26, 2020 10:56:06 GMT
I've already posted this theory in the thread for page 1786, but it might bear repeating in the appropriate thread: When Annie got the blinker stone she was mightily upset when she found out that can be considered a way to claim somebody. I don't know if this aspect of her personality has been explored at another time or if that was just a generalized annoyance at people taking liberties, or, and here's where the theory comes in, it signifies something the comic has yet to explore. The theory I had was that at one point in the past Annie's ancestor agreed to become a psychopomp once she perished. Then she became with child, and the contract was left unresolved, since her life force/soul was never harvested and used to make the world spin. The Psychopomps however still think they have a claim on her services, and after Surma's passing claimed that she would join them once she died. Annie got upset, and refused. This is what they want from her, for she to fulfil her ancestor's agreement. Since she has inherited her life energy from that ancestor it could be argued that she is on the same agreement. Continuing from this theory: When Muut said he had business nearby, he was expecting to Guide the dead Annie. Whether it was to let her join their ranks or keep the world spinning I don't know. Then again, I've always taken Muut's statement to be him intending to Guide the Shadowman, so maybe this is based on nothing. Annie also concluded Muut was there to take the shadow man.
I recently read someone theorizing Zimmy could also be a part of Gamma. What if...of course the resemblance is there, and we saw them never in the same room...., and the same hair color and gruff demeanor..., what if Zimmy is Eglamore?! That's speedwell's theory, I think.
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Post by saardvark on May 26, 2020 12:48:07 GMT
Jeanne could somehow sense timeline change/damage. Its why she crossed the Annan... she saw Annie fall to her death, which Jeanne realized was supposed to be her fate, and yet Annie is caught by a tic-toc and falls into the river. Jeanne can sense living things... she goes rage-ghost and attacks them! So why doesnt she attack Annie right away? It could be because of Annie's "etheric attractiveness", but maybe she is puzzled that she senses a living Annie, who should be dead. So she crosses the Annan, and in puzzlement, nicks Annie with her sword see if she is alive (she could have been a ghost, and ghosts don't bleed). (Otherwise, why would Jeanne cut her if she was swooning from her "etheric attractiveness"?) So, Kat created the alternative timelines, not Loup. As with the contract, she did not understand fully what she was doing. As a result, we now have multiple Annies, and it's all HER fault. No wonder, she is stressed out. Well, Kat created one of them by saving Annie. Loup created another by transferring Courtney from another timeline. So both have been naughty with the time dimension.... though Loup arguably knew what he was doing.
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Post by bedinsis on May 26, 2020 15:13:52 GMT
I don't know where else to put this, but I must say that I appreciate all the symbology of Death on the scene where Annie was by the shore of the Annan river back in Broken Glass and Other Things:
We have the ghost of Jeanne, a person that literally had died. We have the suicide fairies, creatures that intentionally are trying to die. We have Muut, a creature that guides the diseased to the afterlife. We have the Tic-toc, a mechanical creature that Annie determined to have been fatally wounded during the fall. Finally, if Annie's life could only be saved by Kat's future time-travel shenanigans, we have Annie, a human that by all accounts should be dead.
The thing about it though is that all these creatures save Muut have in that case special circumstances to allow them to go on even after death:
Jeanne should've passed on to make the world spin, but was trapped by Diego's arrow. The suicide faires were very keen on being murdered, but that was only because they knew that they'd continue with new lives as humans after death. The Tic-toc might've perished if we can talk about robots dying, but in its death it was able to grow a new as a sort of robot-based plantlife. Finally, Annie's life could only be saved through the intervention of a future robot-goddess, allowing her to continue without dying.
Also note that when Annie left the scene she had a near-death encounter with Jeanne, which was only interrupted by Kat. Once again, a proper death interrupted by the divine.
Since we're talking about "breaking rules" in regards to death, we can also add that Muut brought the blinker stone supposedly from Mort, even though the situation was more akin to the Psychopomps wanting Annie to have the blinker stone, with Mort as a passable scapegoat.
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Post by pyradonis on May 26, 2020 16:58:39 GMT
I have another one: When (okay, "if") Kat sends the Tic-tocs back in time, she uses Diego's arrow as a sort beacon for them, because - she knows its exact location throughout hundreds of years, which is basically the point where Annie will fall down. - she has studied it thoroughly and still has it in her lab right now, so she can calibrate the Tic-tocs to sense it, or babble babble strange words quantum entanglement. - the thing tore through more than one department. Which other Etheric departments do we know except the RotD and the Afterlife Guides? The guys in charge of ownership, and... Temporal Affairs. Maybe the arrow affected that department too? Tore through time itself? Maybe there is an arrow-shaped hole in time Kat can just let the Tic-tocs follow into the past... - finally, all of this messing around with the arrow is the reason why Jeanne's ghost behaves as it did never before and never again. - EDIT: And she also built a tracker for the arrow once.
DOUBLE EDIT: Slight alternative, she does not send the tic-tocs, but just a tic-toc egg - hence why they are able to grow. And she still builds a tracker inside them that makes them seek out the arrow.
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Post by IvDead on May 26, 2020 19:42:45 GMT
DOUBLE EDIT: Slight alternative, she does not send the tic-tocs, but just a tic-toc egg - hence why they are able to grow. And she still builds a tracker inside them that makes them seek out the arrow.
A little addendum to this alternative: One of Tic Toc's eggs (either the one Kat sends, or one that the Tic Tocs ends up producing) will be mistaken for a seed, and will be used by the Court's founders to create it. After all, we know that if a Tic Toc's corpse is buried, it ends up behaving like a plant, growing into something that resembles a technological facility. It would make sense that their eggs would have similar properties.
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Post by pyradonis on May 27, 2020 1:02:11 GMT
DOUBLE EDIT: Slight alternative, she does not send the tic-tocs, but just a tic-toc egg - hence why they are able to grow. And she still builds a tracker inside them that makes them seek out the arrow.
A little addendum to this alternative: One of Tic Toc's eggs (either the one Kat sends, or one that the Tic Tocs ends up producing) will be mistaken for a seed, and will be used by the Court's founders to create it. After all, we know that if a Tic Toc's corpse is buried, it ends up behaving like a plant, growing into something that resembles a technological facility. It would make sense that their eggs would have similar properties. If that turns out to be true, it would mean the whole Court is "not supposed to be here". A centuries-old secret organization that basically created itself out of a temporal paradox attempts to become God... The guys at Temporal Affairs would have a huge mess to sort out.
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Post by warrl on May 27, 2020 4:01:52 GMT
No, it would only mean that the Tic Tocs were not supposed to be there.
Unless that first Tic Toc (or egg) were actually the Seed Bismuth, but I thought the founders of the Court brought that with them.
A weak argument against Kat sending the Tic Tocs (or egg) back to where Diego's arrow ended up is that the robots think the Tic Tocs were there first, and Diego made a lot of robots/golems before he made the arrow. This is, however, a weak argument, because the robots could assume the Tic Tocs had been there, but unnoticed, earlier than was actually the case - AND because the robots could have lost track of just how long they and/or the Tic Tocs have been known to be around.
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Post by ellies on May 27, 2020 8:25:30 GMT
What if Kat is the Bureau of Temporal Affairs? She's creating all sorts of temporal paradoxes right now, especially if Annie originally died. How many timelines has Kat created? She could be more powerful than Loup in terms of time and creation. Kat could theoretically create all sorts of problems. Maybe she does, and learns from them, so she decides to create the agency in order to prevent that sort of thing. If TA is so obscured from public view it becomes separated from god-Kat in the public conscious, it becomes something entirely separate. So now there's two Kats, god-Kat and TA-Kat. If Annie actually died in the first timeline, this could be the deus ex machina that explains all of that away. The whole thing is a loop, because gods exist before they're created.
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Post by neonmoon on May 27, 2020 11:56:17 GMT
Wild meta-speculation: Annie and Kat were originally side characters in the story about Zimmy and Gamma Tom was developing ~20 years ago, and in that side story, Annie died. Chapter 7-8 and the Treatise on page 120 mark the point when Tom decided to change that story, and also change the focus of his project-- a commitment to shifting from the cute/spooky daily joke comics from the early chapters of GC to the huge, deep story we have right now. In the timeline where Annie died falling off the bridge and Zimmy and Gamma's story was Tom's magnum opus, there's a popular Cartoon Network show about the adventures of Sadie and Lars, the donut shop rock star and her shitty zombie on-and-off boyfriend, and we sometimes get cameos from a weird kid in the neighborhood named Steven.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 27, 2020 12:41:31 GMT
What if Kat is the Bureau of Temporal Affairs? She's creating all sorts of temporal paradoxes right now, especially if Annie originally died. How many timelines has Kat created? She could be more powerful than Loup in terms of time and creation. Kat could theoretically create all sorts of problems. Maybe she does, and learns from them, so she decides to create the agency in order to prevent that sort of thing. If TA is so obscured from public view it becomes separated from god-Kat in the public conscious, it becomes something entirely separate. So now there's two Kats, god-Kat and TA-Kat. If Annie actually died in the first timeline, this could be the deus ex machina that explains all of that away. The whole thing is a loop, because gods exist before they're created.
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Post by pyradonis on May 27, 2020 15:52:37 GMT
No, it would only mean that the Tic Tocs were not supposed to be there. Unless that first Tic Toc (or egg) were actually the Seed Bismuth, but I thought the founders of the Court brought that with them. A weak argument against Kat sending the Tic Tocs (or egg) back to where Diego's arrow ended up is that the robots think the Tic Tocs were there first, and Diego made a lot of robots/golems before he made the arrow. This is, however, a weak argument, because the robots could assume the Tic Tocs had been there, but unnoticed, earlier than was actually the case - AND because the robots could have lost track of just how long they and/or the Tic Tocs have been known to be around. Yes, it was meant as the egg being the Seed Bismuth. After all, nobody today knows how it looked like.
Wild meta-speculation: Annie and Kat were originally side characters in the story about Zimmy and Gamma Tom was developing ~20 years ago, and in that side story, Annie died. Chapter 7-8 and the Treatise on page 120 mark the point when Tom decided to change that story, and also change the focus of his project-- a commitment to shifting from the cute/spooky daily joke comics from the early chapters of GC to the huge, deep story we have right now. In the timeline where Annie died falling off the bridge and Zimmy and Gamma's story was Tom's magnum opus, there's a popular Cartoon Network show about the adventures of Sadie and Lars, the donut shop rock star and her shitty zombie on-and-off boyfriend, and we sometimes get cameos from a weird kid in the neighborhood named Steven. I do not see any daily joke comics even in chapter one. Which sets up a lot of major story arcs already. Including showing a Tic-toc watching the bridge. And chapter two sets up the story of Annie's parents. In chapter three, Renard realizes Surma must be dead because her daughter is alive. So no, the story seems to have been solidly planned from the beginning on.
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Post by madjack on May 27, 2020 23:58:35 GMT
Wildspec from all this: One of the tic-toc's jobs will be to go back in time with a message for Surma, getting her to set up all the things Annie is going to need to survive such as teaching her lockpicking, getting her working with they guides and making the wolf toy to save her life when she first met Rey. " I will never send you into danger."
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Post by pyradonis on May 28, 2020 0:22:35 GMT
Wildspec from all this: One of the tic-toc's jobs will be to go back in time with a message for Surma, getting her to set up all the things Annie is going to need to survive such as teaching her lockpicking, getting her working with they guides and making the wolf toy to save her life when she first met Rey. " I will never send you into danger." ...explaining to her what the frag was going on, teaching her social skills, warning her of Coyote and unplanned teenage pregnancies, telling Tony to stay and look after his daughter instead of running away and cutting his hand off... ...somehow I don't think this is what happened. BTW, the wolf toy saved Renard's life, not Annie's. Annie was saved by Eglamore. Regarding the quote, I believe I should spare you from another one of my rants about why I think Surma did the opposite and sent Annie into grave danger by not telling her anything. Except if it turns out that it proved to be a fatal mistake in every timeline Surma told Annie anything. Then I'll take it all back, of course.
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Post by madjack on May 28, 2020 0:42:10 GMT
Wildspec from all this: One of the tic-toc's jobs will be to go back in time with a message for Surma, getting her to set up all the things Annie is going to need to survive such as teaching her lockpicking, getting her working with they guides and making the wolf toy to save her life when she first met Rey. " I will never send you into danger." ...explaining to her what the frag was going on, teaching her social skills, warning her of Coyote and unplanned teenage pregnancies, telling Tony to stay and look after his daughter instead of running away and cutting his hand off... ...somehow I don't think this is what happened. BTW, the wolf toy saved Renard's life, not Annie's. Annie was saved by Eglamore. Regarding the quote, I believe I should spare you from another one of my rants about why I think Surma did the opposite and sent Annie into grave danger by not telling her anything. Except if it turns out that it proved to be a fatal mistake in every timeline Surma told Annie anything. Then I'll take it all back, of course. That's a good point about the wolf toy, but we can't know how comprehensive any message delivered would or could be, and Surma can't tell Annie what she doesn't know. It might well be as you said but Kat would only tell Surma a bare minimum to make sure things will play out in a known fashion.
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Post by bicarbonat on May 28, 2020 7:34:18 GMT
Paz has been blaming the advent of Annies for Kat's strangely distant, overworked demeanor - when, in fact, Kat's been undergoing a deific gauntlet and has already begun to surrender the treasure of being in a relationship as she once was. Better to release the chain than have it broken, or - I'm reminded of the feeling we're left with when we learn (years ahead of Margo and John) that the young couple is destined for heartbreak. It's a little shadow in the back of our minds every time we see John or Margo afterward, still happy kids. Except in this case, Kat is the reader of her own story.
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Post by pyradonis on May 28, 2020 9:49:12 GMT
...explaining to her what the frag was going on, teaching her social skills, warning her of Coyote and unplanned teenage pregnancies, telling Tony to stay and look after his daughter instead of running away and cutting his hand off... ...somehow I don't think this is what happened. BTW, the wolf toy saved Renard's life, not Annie's. Annie was saved by Eglamore. Regarding the quote, I believe I should spare you from another one of my rants about why I think Surma did the opposite and sent Annie into grave danger by not telling her anything. Except if it turns out that it proved to be a fatal mistake in every timeline Surma told Annie anything. Then I'll take it all back, of course. That's a good point about the wolf toy, but we can't know how comprehensive any message delivered would or could be, and Surma can't tell Annie what she doesn't know. It might well be as you said but Kat would only tell Surma a bare minimum to make sure things will play out in a known fashion. Well as long as Kat does not learn that Surma only decided to teach Annie those things after a mysterious entity told her to, she will probably not think everything in the past is her responsibility.
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Post by Runningflame on May 29, 2020 17:38:52 GMT
Even when reading the comic for the first time I noticed that the bird in chapter one was drawn differently than the other characters. Much more detailed. And finally we have the explanation. It had the art style of the future. Man, we could have guessed this in chapter one already! I didn't notice it being that out of place--maybe because there was also a lot of detail in the architecture of the Court buil... oh my goodness the tic-toc is connected to the Seed Bismuth, isn't it?
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Post by netherdan on Jun 12, 2020 17:16:39 GMT
Even when reading the comic for the first time I noticed that the bird in chapter one was drawn differently than the other characters. Much more detailed. And finally we have the explanation. It had the art style of the future. Man, we could have guessed this in chapter one already! I didn't notice it being that out of place--maybe because there was also a lot of detail in the architecture of the Court buil... oh my goodness the tic-toc is connected to the Seed Bismuth, isn't it? Well it suddenly started growing a miniature power plant, satellite TV antenna, air conditioning unit and condenser, cell phone microwave antennas and whatnot right after its "death". I'm pretty sure it would grow into an apartment building if Ysengrin hadn't ripped it off the cliff
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