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Post by mturtle7 on Oct 25, 2017 1:55:42 GMT
However, it does seem like the court is approaching omniscience, because this page indicates to me, if they in fact predicted the event that did in fact occur, that the Court is able to predict fine-grained events that depend on a tremendous number of variables well into the future. It begs the question: does GC exist in a deterministic, and perhaps fatalistic, universe? Or perhaps their probability calculus is just really, really good? And: does this mean they have knowledge of the finite state of the Earth at occasional points in time??? Creeeepy. Their GPS system is SO PRECISE that it maps ALL OF TIME AND SPACE. |
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 25, 2017 17:39:17 GMT
Just a new wildspec: However, it does seem like the court is approaching omniscience, because this page indicates to me, if they in fact predicted the event that did in fact occur, that the Court is able to predict fine-grained events that depend on a tremendous number of variables well into the future. It begs the question: does GC exist in a deterministic, and perhaps fatalistic, universe? Or perhaps their probability calculus is just really, really good? And: does this mean they have knowledge of the finite state of the Earth at occasional points in time??? Creeeepy. Well, they predicted that "an event" would occur there within a time frame of a couple of weeks. And Tony was not even a 100% sure the two slugs mating was the event in question.  |
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Post by fia on Oct 25, 2017 20:12:14 GMT
Just a new wildspec: However, it does seem like the court is approaching omniscience, because this page indicates to me, if they in fact predicted the event that did in fact occur, that the Court is able to predict fine-grained events that depend on a tremendous number of variables well into the future. It begs the question: does GC exist in a deterministic, and perhaps fatalistic, universe? Or perhaps their probability calculus is just really, really good? And: does this mean they have knowledge of the finite state of the Earth at occasional points in time??? Creeeepy. Well, they predicted that "an event" would occur there within a time frame of a couple of weeks. And Tony was not even a 100% sure the two slugs mating was the event in question. Hey, the Court practices Science, evidently it was a double-blind experiment. Tony couldn't have known what was predicted to happen, that would mess up the experiment. Here is the design: use some complicated math and knowledge of physics to predict exact location of slug mating; tell someone (who does not know what you predicted) to go there and observe said location. If slug mating spotted, your model of the way the universe works is pretty accurate. |
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Post by maxptc on Oct 31, 2017 7:26:25 GMT
Is James cheating on Surma with Jones a wild theory yet?
We now know the dragon training scene happened on a trip before the break up scene. Since Jones getting all touchy with James happens just after he gets dumped, we now know James/Surma were still together before that, during the training. That suggests whatever "relationship" they had(have?) started around that time, which means James might have been doing the same thing to Surma as she was doing to him, just for longer and without the intent of leaving her. Could that be part of the mess with James that made Surma and Tony leave? Is James gonna be a jerk about the whole situation and then get exposed as a hypocrite? Seems a little mundane for this comic. Still, he doesn't look surprised at all by Jones making a move, so I'm thinking he either knew Jones had those feelings, or those moves aren't new.
Also, even if he didn't cheat in the same way Surma did (kissing, exiting the relationship) where does the line between emotional infidelity and having a mentor get drawn, and does that line get placed elsewhere since Jones is an immortal?
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Post by philman on Oct 31, 2017 11:14:53 GMT
I think it's been mentioned in the comic before that Surma was very uncomfortable about the relationship between Jones and Eglamore, although I can't find the page right now.
In the page where Eglamore is complaining to Jones about Surma leaving him for Tony, she only starts becoming touchy-feely after he says this, so maybe this was the moment their relationship went to a new level? I can't imagine Eglamore getting so angry if he was already doing something with Jones. Although the pages directly before that showing Jones and Eglamore's relationship nowadays, does seem to suggest something much closer. Although to what level Jones can even HAVE a relationship since she doesn't feel anything, I don't know.
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Post by faiiry on Oct 31, 2017 11:19:21 GMT
Well, I really HOPE the relationship wasn't sexual before that point. Perhaps it isn't even sexual now. But Jones' relationship with Eglamore (and, as seen in The Stone, with Samuel) reeks of grooming a kid, even if it's not intended to look that way. That aspect of Jones has always creeped me out.
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Post by maxptc on Oct 31, 2017 16:32:39 GMT
I think it's been mentioned in the comic before that Surma was very uncomfortable about the relationship between Jones and Eglamore, although I can't find the page right now. In the page where Eglamore is complaining to Jones about Surma leaving him for Tony, she only starts becoming touchy-feely after he says this, so maybe this was the moment their relationship went to a new level? I can't imagine Eglamore getting so angry if he was already doing something with Jones. Although the pages directly before that showing Jones and Eglamore's relationship nowadays, does seem to suggest something much closer. Although to what level Jones can even HAVE a relationship since she doesn't feel anything, I don't know. If it was new, wouldn't James be a little more surprised then that? He doesn't even react or comment on the touching. It seems almost routine to him. I can totally imagine James getting mad despite having done something similar. It would be unfortunate. |
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Post by Per on Oct 31, 2017 17:09:52 GMT
I think his reaction or lack of it must be read in the context of his understanding that Jones doesn't send or receive genuinely human emotions. She's picking that moment to mimic romantic affection, which he seems to find squicky, inappropriate and/or a poor substitute, but it's not enough for a freak-out because he's accustomed to her doing things approaching this and knows it would serve no purpose anyway. So in conclusion I would say there's no evidence of an actual Eglamore-Jones erotic relationship (and imaginaryfriend has some thoughts on the complications of sex with a completely imporous body), but there's nothing to prevent wild speculation on the subject.
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Post by maxptc on Oct 31, 2017 17:40:47 GMT
I think his reaction or lack of it must be read in the context of his understanding that Jones doesn't send or receive genuinely human emotions. She's picking that moment to mimic romantic affection, which he seems to find squicky, inappropriate and/or a poor substitute, but it's not enough for a freak-out because he's accustomed to her doing things approaching this and knows it would serve no purpose anyway. So in conclusion I would say there's no evidence of an actual Eglamore-Jones erotic relationship (and imaginaryfriend has some thoughts on the complications of sex with a completely imporous body), but there's nothing to prevent wild speculation on the subject. So, wait a minute. Him being accustomed to these things, does that mean Jones has "emulated romance" with James before? It just didn't matter in his mind since she doesn't have feelings or emotions like we do? And whatever he felt about it because it "serves no purpose" does not change what's happening. If this or similar has happened before, even without sex, isn't it still cheating? Also, IMO, the only thing that's really "wild" speculation is the possibility of cheating. I personally think a romantic relationship between the two is pretty clear at this point. Erotic has a more sexual implication, and I'd agree that sex might not be a Jones thing. But from what the comic has shown us, we are suppose to be questioning what Jones sexuality is in some way. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 31, 2017 20:27:28 GMT
I think his reaction or lack of it must be read in the context of his understanding that Jones doesn't send or receive genuinely human emotions. She's picking that moment to mimic romantic affection, which he seems to find squicky, inappropriate and/or a poor substitute, but it's not enough for a freak-out because he's accustomed to her doing things approaching this and knows it would serve no purpose anyway. So in conclusion I would say there's no evidence of an actual Eglamore-Jones erotic relationship, but there's nothing to prevent wild speculation on the subject. Maybe I'm weird and/or wrong but I saw in that comic an attempt from Jones to emulate comforting behavior, maybe even motherly, but not romantic. and imaginaryfriend has some thoughts on the complications of sex with a completely imporous body The amount of force she can generate is beyond the Court's ability to measure, her form is immutable, and I know what a water hammer is. Not good. |
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Post by warrl on Oct 31, 2017 22:57:08 GMT
In the page where Eglamore is complaining to Jones about Surma leaving him for Tony, she only starts becoming touchy-feely after he says this, so maybe this was the moment their relationship went to a new level? I can't imagine Eglamore getting so angry if he was already doing something with Jones. NOT commenting on Eglamore specifically, but the sort of reaction you can't imagine Eglamore having is - unfortunately - not unusual. And, in that specific context, most notoriously on the male side. In other contexts - "how dare that person do that horrible thing that's alright when I do it?" - basic commonplace hypocrisy. |
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Post by faiiry on Nov 1, 2017 0:22:54 GMT
In the page where Eglamore is complaining to Jones about Surma leaving him for Tony, she only starts becoming touchy-feely after he says this, so maybe this was the moment their relationship went to a new level? I can't imagine Eglamore getting so angry if he was already doing something with Jones. NOT commenting on Eglamore specifically, but the sort of reaction you can't imagine Eglamore having is - unfortunately - not unusual. And, in that specific context, most notoriously on the male side. In other contexts - "how dare that person do that horrible thing that's alright when I do it?" - basic commonplace hypocrisy. Another theory - however unlikely - is that Eglamore is desensitized to the idea that his relationship with Jones could be construed as "cheating." She's been with him so long that his attitude might be "Why would Surma be mad about that? It's just Jones!" She has been with him for longer than Surma has, and is probably a much more non-negotiable part of his life than Surma is. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 1, 2017 1:51:00 GMT
I think his reaction or lack of it must be read in the context of his understanding that Jones doesn't send or receive genuinely human emotions. She's picking that moment to mimic romantic affection, which he seems to find squicky, inappropriate and/or a poor substitute, but it's not enough for a freak-out because he's accustomed to her doing things approaching this and knows it would serve no purpose anyway. So in conclusion I would say there's no evidence of an actual Eglamore-Jones erotic relationship, but there's nothing to prevent wild speculation on the subject. Maybe I'm weird and/or wrong but I saw in that comic an attempt from Jones to emulate comforting behavior, maybe even motherly, but not romantic. You're not weird, imaginaryfriend; I saw it exactly the same way. I get the romantic speculation over Jones and Eglamore ( Annie speculated as such immediately after seeing them together, after all), but for me the revelation that she had been his companion ever since he was 9 years old kinda threw that whole idea out the window for me, so now I see her as much more of a mother/older friend for Eglamore. |
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Post by maxptc on Nov 1, 2017 3:43:10 GMT
I don't wanna judge, but if your mother touches you like that you have a much more.... physical relationship then my family did, and we were big on hugs and all the touchy feely stuff. I mean Jones is practically eating James ear. Maybe its because that whole routine is a go to move my girlfriend makes, but that just seems explicitly sexual. I mean, when you say motherly you do mean "that's something my/an average mother would do to me/her child." That's just really not a situation that I can picture myself and my mother in, nor would any mother/son I know of seem natural in that situation.
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Post by philman on Nov 1, 2017 8:18:28 GMT
One more piece of speculation on Jones that I also posted in the page thread:
What if Jones manipulated Surma into doing something to leave Eglamore, so that she could get Eglamore all to herself? All the people we know she has formed partnerships with in the past never left any heirs, and ended up spending their entire lives and giving everything to Jones. So presumably none of them had anyone other than Jones either.
In terms of her lack of feelings and that her only aim is to observe, all we have to go on for that is her word. It wouldn't shock me if she is more manipulative than we realise (we saw her manipulate Parley and Smitty into admitting their feelings for each other), and what better way to observe humanity and someone's life than ensuring that you are the only person in their life.
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Post by speedwell on Nov 1, 2017 10:13:24 GMT
I don't wanna judge, but if your mother touches you like that you have a much more.... physical relationship then my family did, and we were big on hugs and all the touchy feely stuff. I mean Jones is practically eating James ear. Maybe its because that whole routine is a go to move my girlfriend makes, but that just seems explicitly sexual. I mean, when you say motherly you do mean "that's something my/an average mother would do to me/her child." That's just really not a situation that I can picture myself and my mother in, nor would any mother/son I know of seem natural in that situation. If my guess is right (the three... four... of them walked in on Surma and Tony having a private moment), Jones could just be imitating what she saw Surma doing to Tony. I'm not asserting that with great confidence; Jones has clearly been witness to a full spectrum of human behaviour and could be imitating absolutely anyone in history. But it could be an unusually ham-handed way for Jones to say, "You don't need her if that is all you want". She need not be motivated by anything but "my current human project is feeling suboptimal", really. |
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Post by Zox Tomana on Nov 1, 2017 18:06:18 GMT
One more piece of speculation on Jones that I also posted in the page thread: What if Jones manipulated Surma into doing something to leave Eglamore, so that she could get Eglamore all to herself? All the people we know she has formed partnerships with in the past never left any heirs, and ended up spending their entire lives and giving everything to Jones. So presumably none of them had anyone other than Jones either. In terms of her lack of feelings and that her only aim is to observe, all we have to go on for that is her word. It wouldn't shock me if she is more manipulative than we realise (we saw her manipulate Parley and Smitty into admitting their feelings for each other), and what better way to observe humanity and someone's life than ensuring that you are the only person in their life. We have exactly one example of a companion of hers dying without heirs, and leaving the estate (which she was promptly, apparently, evicted from once the police got suspicious about the recluse heiress). She's been alive for all of human history, and has been hanging around people forming relationships for presumably the majority of it. And what we do know of what tends to always get left to her is names. I think Jones, having witnessed such things as the burning of Rome... ought to be fairly aware that "things" fade. She doesn't need food, drink, or shelter. She's as comfortable in molten rock as she is in the freezing cold. What does it gain her to manipulate people into leaving her all their things when she's going to outlive any amount of wealth they could possibly provide her? Wealth that does not add or subtract to her status of life? And her manipulation of Parley and Smits was less subtle matchmaking and more... train barreling down the tracks XD And remember that even after that, it took Jeanne to get Parley to admit her feelings for Smitty, not Jones. And I can think of many better ways to observe humanity than ensuring you are the only person in someone's life... namely by putting other people in that person's life and watching them interact and simply being a constant while the rest of their life goes on. It shouldn't take very much observation before you understand that humanity comes alive not in isolation, or even in pairings, but in community. Our human drive for community and family is so strong we adopt non-human species and make them part of our families. But regarding the "being a constant" statement I made: the power of constancy, all by itself, should not be underestimated. I act as a sort-of surrogate parent for someone, and the trust and reliance in that relationship is largely built on me simply having stuck around to be there for that person. Eglamore has had Jones as a companion for most of his life: there is simply no replacing or usurping of her position no matter who else comes into his life. I think Jones is trying to understand what she is. She's the spitting image of humanity, but she defines herself as a kind of stone. Close observation and living together with people is part of understanding and following the development of creatures that she, with no good explanation, looks exactly like. Presumably, her picking of companions depends on finding people 1. of interest, and 2. who will keep calm and quiet about her true nature (it would be fairly counterproductive to observing humanity if she were having to deal with people who want to try and contain her for study, the Court at least allows her to do whatever she wants as long as they get to scan her every now and then). And now by way of her deal with the Court, she can investigate things previously not open to her: I read that as "the Ether." Jones has no connection to it, but the Court does Etheric experiments. Between observing and following the nature of humanity, and helping and studying the Ether experiments, that's two lines of investigation which tie very deeply into identifying what Jones is. And neither requires her to be a master manipulator keeping James all to herself. It simply doesn't gain her anything to be his one-and-only, and arguably it could detract from one of her main, stated goals: observation of humanity. |
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Post by rafk on Nov 2, 2017 6:05:24 GMT
Wild speculation:
That Jones is actually the big bad, running the longest of long cons, and isn't nearly as dispassionate as she pretends.
Her behaviour doesn't really mesh with being emotionless or having no motives of her own. It's a lie. She winds people up and watches them go.
If Jones is lying about herself, there's every chance that she's a hidden villain. If Jones is evil, it makes sense for her to be equal to or worse than Coyote.
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Post by pinegreenjellybean on Nov 4, 2017 22:23:33 GMT
Wild Speculation: Antimony's inevitable child will be a boy. Hear me out. We know that thus far, all children that fire elementals have are girls. It's been speculated that since the fire elemental spirit is female, it will only occupy female hosts and probably ether-s up some way to make all elementals' children girls. But what if it were a boy that Annie ended up with? Where would the fire spirit go? So a child's sex depends on the father's chromosome, but perhaps fire spirit eggs reject Y-chromosomes. Okay, well, Annie has a science-genius best friend, magical-computer scientists (Donald and Anja), and skilled doctor father on her side. If they found a way to temporarily suppress the spirit's influence, then perhaps the first male in this line of people could be born. Before you say "if they can do that, they can just keep it from leaving her in the first place", consider the difference between putting a plug in a leaking bottle vs turning it right side up so that the water cannot physically leave the bottle. In one scenario, you are restricting its natural inclination, (possessing the next child). In the other, you are using its own physical properties to your advantage,(as in, its inability to possess males, after he's born.) It would be ideal because by controlling the sex of the child, they wouldn't have to worry about finding a way from continuously restraining the fire spirit from leaving Annie, as she's its only available host, and she has a biological child. Or y'know, she could just adopt.  |
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 5, 2017 19:40:39 GMT
(it would be fairly counterproductive to observing humanity if she were having to deal with people who want to try and contain her for study, the Court at least allows her to do whatever she wants as long as they get to scan her every now and then). Fun fact: the Court did actually try to contain her in the early days of their acquaintance , using a cage of etherically-enhanced tritanium alloy. She promptly walked straight through the wall and patiently explained that any further attempts like this would not be tolerated and may force her to take drastic measures. The Court does not try to to find ways of containing Jones anymore. |
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Post by arf on Nov 5, 2017 22:31:34 GMT
Is James cheating on Surma with Jones a wild theory yet? We now know the dragon training scene happened on a trip before the break up scene. Since Jones getting all touchy with James happens just after he gets dumped, we now know James/Surma were still together before that, during the training. Actually, the dragon scene happened some time *after* the breakup comfort service, which clearly happened immediately after the breakup scene (with Jones' "get that in my house" look as the door closes.). "The Stone" chapter was told in reverse chronological sequence, so the confusion is understandable! |
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Post by speedwell on Nov 6, 2017 0:24:47 GMT
I just got smashed in the face with the conviction that this is racking up to lead to a next chapter in which Annie falls for someone.
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Post by faiiry on Nov 6, 2017 3:09:30 GMT
I just got smashed in the face with the conviction that this is racking up to lead to a next chapter in which Annie falls for someone. But whom?  If I had to pick, I'd say Jack - every time they interact or she talks about him, romance is in the air. But it could be some new character? (I also find it funny that on that page, where a shadow man, a robot, a ghost and Renard appear, the only guy explicitly crossed off is Eggers. |
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Post by maxptc on Nov 6, 2017 4:41:56 GMT
Is James cheating on Surma with Jones a wild theory yet? We now know the dragon training scene happened on a trip before the break up scene. Since Jones getting all touchy with James happens just after he gets dumped, we now know James/Surma were still together before that, during the training. Actually, the dragon scene happened some time *after* the breakup comfort service, which clearly happened immediately after the breakup scene (with Jones' "get that in my house" look as the door closes.). "The Stone" chapter was told in reverse chronological sequence, so the confusion is understandable! But those two pages aren't separated by a "seasons change" text, unlike the other Jones/James scenes. Because of that, I think those two events happen in order, days apart at most, amd since we just saw James was dragon training with Jones just before getting dumped, it wasn't the other way around. Having two pages happen in order within a chapter that is mostly happening backwards is a little odd, but that's how I read it anyways. |
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Post by maxptc on Nov 6, 2017 4:43:09 GMT
I just got smashed in the face with the conviction that this is racking up to lead to a next chapter in which Annie falls for someone. But whom? If I had to pick, I'd say Jack - every time they interact or she talks about him, romance is in the air. But it could be some new character? (I also find it funny that on that page, where a shadow man, a robot, a ghost and Renard appear, the only guy explicitly crossed off is Eggers. Can it be Smitty after she Surmas him from George? |
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 6, 2017 6:29:36 GMT
But it could be some new character? She did recently switch to a different school year, for what it's worth. |
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Post by faiiry on Nov 6, 2017 13:39:18 GMT
But whom? If I had to pick, I'd say Jack - every time they interact or she talks about him, romance is in the air. But it could be some new character? (I also find it funny that on that page, where a shadow man, a robot, a ghost and Renard appear, the only guy explicitly crossed off is Eggers. Can it be Smitty after she Surmas him from George? Well, if the arrow is any indication, she wants a cross between Eggs and Jack... with Eggers' muscle and Jack's youth, perhaps? So maybe she's going to Surma George from Smitty. |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Nov 6, 2017 15:08:23 GMT
The arrow is moving between the possible candidates, hence the faded outlines to the left.
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Post by fia on Nov 6, 2017 16:47:27 GMT
Oh, there are so many crowd scenes in the earlier chapters and random side characters, as well as children of gods, I'm sure one of them might make a good first romance. |
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Post by speedwell on Nov 6, 2017 17:27:18 GMT
My money's on a new character actually. Maybe someone from the Forest. Maybe someone new to the Court. All I feel sure of is that it is going to be a human character and it will be someone who is nice to her. That's where she's at right now in her head.
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